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Alathir
20-08-2006, 11:45
Soon I will be taking on a Skaven playing friend of mine in a 2500 point game with my Wood Elves, and I have very little experience against these furry bastards. I have been racking my brain trying to make this fight easier for me, but swarm armies seem to be quite tricky for Wood Elves, or perhaps that's just me. I was hoping that some of you out there would be able to lend me some tactical assistance.

Thanks in advance.

My models are as follows

1 Highborn
3 Nobles
2 Spellsingers
32 Glade Guard
20 Eternal Guard
6 Wardancers
16 Dryads
6 Wild Riders
8 Glade Riders
9 Waywatchers
9 Wardancers
1 Treeman
1 Forest Dragon

Mephistofeles
20-08-2006, 11:51
Take a bunch of shooters and make one of his bigger regiments flee. That will hopefully trigger a chain-reaction amongst the furries making them run away while you pick the ones still pushing forward.

The Dragon and Treeman are really good against them too I think, since Psychology is NOT the Skavens friend, not with that LD of theirs. Make them run away. Do not engage them in battle.

If you are to actually fight them, make sure to negate their flanks with some riders or dryads, and then you are almost sure that they will run away, I mean, they arn't exactly heavy hitters.

Also, you might want to take a fair bit of magical Defense, since they might be going strong in that phase.

Do you know how his army looks like?

Alathir
20-08-2006, 11:59
Not exactly, I'm pretty sure he has most of the army, but most importantly I know he is a bastard when it comes to playing and only plays to win so you can bet his list will not be friendly.

I'm considering a highborn on a dragon with the wraithstone (-1 to enemys leadership within 6 inches) and the callach's claw (-1 to leadership if you cause a wound in combat).

heretics bane
20-08-2006, 12:30
just use your fast units(wild riders dyrads etc) to smash his flanks as skavens leader ship is 1+ for every rank they have and beware of gutter runners and other heavy weapons so use your way watchers to kill the crew

DeathlessDraich
20-08-2006, 12:49
1) You've got the the right idea Alathir - 2 Terror causers.
When I play against a Steam tank with my SAD Skaven I inevitably fail 1 terror test. All I can do is hope it is not a big infantry block.
BUT your terror causers have to be sheltered from their shooting at the same time.
2) TreeSing towards his battle line while remaining hidden.
3) In HTH nearly all your units are stronger - it's just a matter of preserving them until turn 4.
4) Charge the Warplightning cannon with your fastest unit - it auto flees. Glade Riders maybe because they will die soon after but at least deflect attention from your important units.
5) Gutter Runners charge when they emerge - Your Wardancers can destroy them easily so keep them within range of the pt of emergence.
6) He might move his Monks straight up the board - no armour saves but T4. Easier to ambush them with Dryads than. shoot them.
7) Ratling guns - 15" range and S&S and magical shooting like the others. Keep that in mind with your Forest Spirit save.
8) He will offer Slaves and/or Night Runners as bait, defer your charges and angle your attack so that when they flee they block his main units
9) Remember Fleeing Skaven units rally on 5 or 6.
10) Shooting Units more than 12" (e.g. Jezzails) from the general can easily panic (Ld 5) while ranked up infantry will be Ld 8 at this distance.

Alathir
20-08-2006, 12:55
Interesting stuff, I'm considering giving the spite of terrors to a noble so I could bring up the terror causing units to 3 and then combine that with dryads and even the bannier of ariel, I'll have most of my army causing fear, not to mention the fear causing wild rider charge.

Mephistofeles
20-08-2006, 13:46
That seems the way to go, take out his machines and such stuff, and then make the rest of them flee. Use fear and terror, that's the way to beat those pesky low LD-rats. If you can, take out the general as quick as possible, then the rest will run off the board quicker then a greased up Halfling in an Ogre Kitchen.

skavenguy13
20-08-2006, 16:23
I doubt terror will be any good against the big blocks. However, if you can get rid of jezzails and the cannon, a dragon with a crowd-clearing lord can kill anything.

The skaven army is a bit versatile, so it would help to know what you think you'll face.

- terror is good, but only against skirmishers
- destroy the cannon (glade riders) and jezzails (scouts?) as soon as possible. Or else your monsters/cavalries are dead.
- wardancers can kill anything and as a skaven player, I only found the ratling gun to be able to kill them.
- gettings flanks is almost impossible against skavens, don't rely on that
- even with 3 turns of shooting, you can destroy a single block. So shooting isn't that good.
- Moving woods can be incredibly useful. Especially with that D6 S5 spell. Move a forest in front of jezzails/ratlings and they won't dare to advance.
-Dryads should be able to handle pretty much all skirmishers.
-Be ready to face massive static CR with high LD, and being flank-charged sometimes.
-Skavens only kill by shooting/magic or by breaking through CR. They don't kill in combat. So a crowd-clearer, screened from shooting, is pretty much unbeatable

DeathMasterSnikch
20-08-2006, 18:07
Try to stay out of combat as long as possible. Hit his ranged weapons early in game and thin his ranks with massive arrow fire. If you can remove the Warlord/Greyseer that will greatly increase your chances of taking his army down.

Charge his flanks with fear causers if possible. Then they cant use rank for LD so will have to rely on their Generals LD 7 or 6.

Minaith
21-08-2006, 14:14
Here is a good 2000pts start against skaven. The two treeman should be followed by bsb in the wardancer group. If you play 2500pts, consider more dryad units to hunt support units.

1 Spellweaver @ 345 Pts
General; Lore of Life; Magic Level 4; Longbow
Dispel Scroll
Ranu's Heartstone
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll

1 Alter Noble @ 130 Pts
Alter; Longbow
Hail of Doom Arrow

1 Noble @ 115 Pts
Battle Standard
Annoyance of Netlings

10 Glade Guard @ 120 Pts
Longbow

10 Glade Guard @ 120 Pts
Longbow

8 Dryads @ 96 Pts

8 Dryads @ 96 Pts

5 Glade Riders @ 120 Pts
Spear; Longbow

5 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

5 Wild Riders @ 130 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Musician

5 Elf Steed @ [0] Pts

7 Wardancers @ 158 Pts
Wardancer Weapons

1 Bladesinger @ [14] Pts
Wardancer Weapons

1 Treeman @ 285 Pts

1 Treeman @ 285 Pts

Casting Pool: 6

Dispel Pool: 4

Models in Army: 59


Total Army Cost: 2000

heretics bane
23-08-2006, 10:30
if your noble gets caught in the open annoyance of nettlings will save his ass hitting on sixs i think so, just take away rank bonus's and your sweet

Ethereal
23-08-2006, 13:14
word of advice. I do not play wood elves but they are one of my regular opponants. My friend has devised an awesome noble for under 200 points.

Wood elf noble
alter kindred
great weapon
light armor
helm of the hunt
hail of doom arrows

ok shooting: an average of 9 s4 magical shots, better than a standard unit of glade guard. hitting on 1+ and against standard t3 wounding on a 3+.

When charging he deals 5 attacks at weapon skill 7 and strength 6!!!!

he also has an amazing movement of 9, possibly the fastest infantry in the game, as it surpasses most cavalry!!!!!

use it to decimate or break big scary foes or powerful characters in a challenge.

the only drawback is that t3, making him an easy target for my handgunners or my magic. This is however countered by his move of 9, making for only one or two real chances to shoot him.

This combo is only 156 points!!!!! although id rather have a hellblaster....

Capslock
23-08-2006, 15:29
That'll be awesome for another 2 weeks until 7thed arrives. Then alter nobles are going to feel the sting of the new targeting rules.

Voltaire
23-08-2006, 17:11
So? If you really are that scared then don't invest so much in characters and use something else as your general - a cheaper hero or something that is going to better cope with the rigours of the new rules.

Neknoh
23-08-2006, 22:22
There is ONE arrow you have forgotten to include in your list.

the Starfire Arrows, they can be used to rid the field of the following:

With a lucky shot and bad luck on your opponents part, his entire army will fall flat once the arrow hits his main block, pannicks it off the board and the entire army comes running behind it.

Ratlingguns, by Panicking units of Slaves and Clanrats, you will force the Ratlers to take a Panickcheck.

ANY skirmishers, a single arrow is enough, then, those Poison Wind Globadiers, Gutterrunners and Nightrunners will head for the hills, seeing as without their rank bonus, and with their presumed place far away from the general, i would trust in their **** poor leadership to do the rest for you.

And, the Hunters Bow or whatever it's called, that lets you target anything 8even characters in units), this means that Ratlingguns go byebye very fast :evilgrin:

Ethereal
23-08-2006, 23:42
new targeting??????? aahhhh, im so ill informed!!!!!

Asrai Wraith
24-08-2006, 20:47
And, the Hunters Bow or whatever it's called, that lets you target anything 8even characters in units), this means that Ratlingguns go byebye very fast :evilgrin:

Pageant of Shrikes does the same and is a better choice because Bow of Loren is still available.

Alathir
25-08-2006, 00:56
Only downside is the lesser range, but I'm definitely considering it. I wouldn't be surprised if this player took that pesky banner of storms. The pageant of shrikes always hits on 3+ so that would be a nasty surprise.

skavenguy13
25-08-2006, 02:14
One thing you can do is charge the parent unit the target the weapon team. You can target it because the unit isn't a legal target.

However, if you don't break on that charge, there is a good possibility you'll be flank-charged after :(

Inquisitor Aling James
22-09-2006, 12:33
Bow of Loren and Starfire Arrows
60pts and a terror apon low Ld armies.

I know that the lord has to carry but for one off games like against mates it's worth it.
Other then that the moon stone of hidden paths can allow a unit to get around the back of an unwary army aswell.

just something different.
I live in the forest i just don't like elves so these are mostly just ideas, but you can always try them, i'd love to hear if they work in a game.

Gekiganger
22-09-2006, 15:41
This thread was long dead, no threadromancy.

Gekiga Out!

StormCrow
23-09-2006, 02:04
On a side note; alathir suffered a minor defeat at the hands of the rat men. I suffered a massacre....thread over

Alathir
23-09-2006, 03:45
It was a great game... sad for you stormcrow, losing heirophants is never fun.

But on the elven note...7th edition targeting makes me happy. Waywatchers and glade guard destroyed all his ratling guns and warp lightning cannons very quickly. Glade Riders could have crossfired two 30 clanrat units.. but couldnt roll more than 6 for their pursue... you useless bastards.