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ardude
20-08-2006, 19:11
I have a 1000 pts version and a 2000 pts version.
I want to use it for tournament play and I think it could work pritty good.
I don't want you to post a working dark elf army I want you to help me make this list a good one.

1000 pts

2 sorcerers level 2
1 scroll
seal of the ghrond

10 warriors reaper x-bows

5 naked dark riders

3 chariots

2 reaper bolt throwers

2000 pts

1 high sorcerer level 4
tome of furion ( in 7th edition soul stone)

2 sorcerers level 2,
wand of khairaidon
seal of the ghrond

3x10 warriors reaper x-bows

7 chariots 4 spears

4 reaper bolt throwers.

that's about it.
tips plz:) ( or is at alraedy perfect?:angel: :D )

Divine Shadow
20-08-2006, 23:39
I don't think you need so much magic...just a few scrolls for some magic defense should cover it. Naked dark riders are cool, but adding the x-bows gives them something to when waiting for that side charge. In your 1000 point list that 10 man warrior squad seems out of place. I would ditch them and make sure to mount your sorceress' so that they can move around fast like the rest of your army. Repeater bolt throwers are nasty...keep em.

szlachcic
21-08-2006, 02:52
One main thing you might want to change is your sorceresses. Under 7th Edition rules they will be able to be targeted freely if they are not in a unit. That is unless you are putting them in the x-bow units, but I don't really recommend that since warriors w/ x-bows are very static and a lot of spells will not be in range. I don't exactly think this army will be very competitive since everything is on the chariots and some armies will have no problem neutralizing the threat. On the other hand, I could see it steam rolling other armies that aren't equiped to take out that many chariots.

I say it is too much of a gamble though since you are banking on breaking units on the charge with all of your hard hitting units. I would imagine armies that are hard to break such as Dwarves or Lizardmen will give you a hard time. In your 2000pt. list I would recommend getting some Dark Rider units instead of all of those warriors.

ardude
21-08-2006, 17:30
the reason why I don't want a scroll caddy is becouse they are so pricy:(
and making them level 2 for just 40 points when you alreayd paid for the +1 is totally worth it.
maby I should drop 1 sorceres and get some more dark riders.

it's indeed a gamble, but against lizardmen armys with mutch kroxigors I will simple use my reapers against them.
and the chariots won't be gambling when all the units are around half strenght from shooting.

szlachcic
22-08-2006, 02:34
the reason why I don't want a scroll caddy is becouse they are so pricy:(
and making them level 2 for just 40 points when you alreayd paid for the +1 is totally worth it.
maby I should drop 1 sorceres and get some more dark riders.

it's indeed a gamble, but against lizardmen armys with mutch kroxigors I will simple use my reapers against them.
and the chariots won't be gambling when all the units are around half strenght from shooting.

If you are going magic heavy (which you obviously are) then I would not take a scroll caddy. A caddy is only really needed when you don't want to spend many points on magic and just want a basic caster w/ extra magic defense. Your 2000 pt. list has 7 dispel dice and a scroll which will basically shut down any army that isn't magic heavy. I don't know if you should drop a sorceress for more dark riders though. I find that when you want to have a list that is good at magic then you better go all the way or don't even bother since it won't be worth the points. I have tried a few lists with a lvl 3 or 4, and one lvl 2 and they never seem to be that great for what I put into it. A lvl 3 or 4, and two lvl 2s perform much more predictably in the magic phase.

TheWarSmith
22-08-2006, 03:05
You're going to have problems against armies with decent amounts of static CR. Your chariots are automatically going up against +5 CR in most cases. Dwarves would have a field day with this list.

I would assume you'd try charging chariots in pairs to stand a chance. If not, you're a nutball. But the problem with this is that doing it in pairs will prove challenging as one in the pair might go stupid at the wrong time, leaving a chariot charging alone. I may have that SLIGHTLY wrong, not sure when stupidity is tested, but it would still screw things up.

Personally, I would drop a sorc and 1 chariot and take some cold one knights.

ardude
22-08-2006, 10:24
@ szlachcic
like you sayd it's all the way or nothing. and becouse a dark elf army needs magic defence cous most untis are very pricy for what they can take I want some mages.

@ TheWarSmith
there comes the idee of very mutch shooting and strong magic.
against dwars, m3 march move 6.
I will have 4 or even 5 turns of shooting when I deploy rigth.
that will probably make his units drop below half strength.
and then the chariots come to clean up the rest.

and why would I take cold one knights?
why are they better then chariots?

Latro
22-08-2006, 10:59
I have a 1000 pts version and a 2000 pts version.
I want to use it for tournament play and I think it could work pritty good.
I don't want you to post a working dark elf army I want you to help me make this list a good one.

1000 pts

2 sorcerers level 2
1 scroll
seal of the ghrond

10 warriors reaper x-bows

5 naked dark riders

3 chariots

2 reaper bolt throwers


I'll only comment on the 1000 pts list, because that's the only list I have been working on and tested so far ... with some succes.

- I prefer to go very magic light in a 1000 pts list because it's very hard (perhaps even impossible) to get an effective result with the points you have to pay for it. You pay 300+ points for 4 spells ... which might turn out to be not very handy against the opponent you face, which might misfire or simply dispelled at the deciding moment. The Druchii can't afford to waste points on gambles in a 1000 pts list ... but if you do want to try magic, go for it all the way.

- The Reapers are absolute gold! ... but you already experienced that :D

- I hate stupidity, there's only one allowed to behave stupid in my armies ... and that's me. Units should do as they're told, period. Having multiple Chariots gives you a good chance of having enough in "smart-mode" to get the job done, but this also prevents you from using them on different flanks. Making 3 tests on ld8 means you will fail one each turn on average, you'll need two Chariots in "smart-mode" to realiably deal with serious threats ... so that means all of them are needed to get one job done.

- Naked Dark Riders are nice, but also very vulnerable to anything with a moderate save that will hit back ... without one (or more) Noble to give it some hitting power, they will have a hard time actually doing something.

- Against Skaven you're fu ... uhm ... scre ... uhm ... have a problem.

TheWarSmith
22-08-2006, 17:19
Cold one knights are better than chariots in a number of ways

1)They can negate ranks by themselves
2)They have Ld9 instead of 8, which is HUGE for stupidity tests
3)They're not instantly dead if something hits w/ S7 or higher
4)Can go into difficult terrain
5)Not as random(set number of attacks instead of impact hits)
6)Greater unit strength means it's easier to outnumber/autobreak
7)can take banner/musician

They have disadvantages of course, some being:
1)more expensive points wise
2)tougher to wheel
3)smaller frontage means less attacks back

As for dwarves, I agree that you'll be shooting at his troops with your warmachines, but he'll be shooting at your chariots with his. Since you'll probably be running your chariots in pairs as I suggested, it's not out of the question to see a cannon ball from an angle bounce across 2 chariots. Your repeater xbows will have to advance before they're in range, and you'll be hitting on 5s, wounding on 5s.

Finnblood
23-08-2006, 06:16
Hmmm... skink horde with suitable terrain will tear that list apart. They are very dodgy when it comes to warmachines. They can easily avoid lines of sight. And the sky will be raining with lightnings and comets.

Yes I have bitter first hand experience on that. Driders could use bows, then they can snipe out stuff. A unit of shades or harpies is always handy for wiping out enemy casters and war machines...

Chariots... well... stunties shoot them on the first turn... so will empire... other armies? well... alright.. knights are better IMO

ardude
23-08-2006, 13:48
I know how to deal with skink armys, I play lizardmen for over 5 years now.
espacially in the 7th edition ( where this army is based on) skinks can't get out of my chariot's charge range.

@ thewarsmith, you are right about that how ever, 5 cold one knights with banner and champion cost as mutch as 2 chariots.
and 2 chariots can flank and have a high enough unit strength.
the leadership is indeed a big disadvantage.
I think I'm going to delete the mages for 1 noble on pegasus with seal of the ghrond. playtested with mages a few days ago and lets just say they haven't really proven themselfs....

this will then be the new 1000 pts army:

1 noble on pegasus, lance ha enchanted shield sea dragon clouk
seal of the ghrond.
( he can team up with 1 chariot to get enough unit strength for a flank charge or add some hitting power to the dark riders).

10 dark elf warriors reaper x-bows
( to handle annoying skirmish units)
5 dark riders reaper x-bows
( what can't dark riders do...:))
5 cold one knights champion banner warbanner.
( they are obviously less strong then 2 chariots but it's nice to have a more realable unit in the army, and it's nice to have some combat resolution)

2 chariots
( can team up with either the cold ones, my noble or the dark riders to make some deadly charges)

2 bolt throwers
(obvious why)

Mad Doc Grotsnik
23-08-2006, 14:20
Not a great list I'm afraid. Chariots are indeed mean, but without any kind of combat potential beyond impact hits, your running a very real risk of being slapped from one end of the board to the other.

one tactic I would suggest is to include some Harpies. Not only can they be placed behind units you really need to wipe out, but, should your oppponent be cowardly enough to flee as a charge reaction, a bit of careful positioning will allow your Harpies to charge them next turn, and wipe them out without placing a claw on them!

Latro
23-08-2006, 15:09
... and 2 chariots can flank and have a high enough unit strength.

1 noble on pegasus, lance ha enchanted shield sea dragon clouk
seal of the ghrond.
( he can team up with 1 chariot to get enough unit strength for a flank charge or add some hitting power to the dark riders).


It doesn't work that way I'm afraid ... you need a unit with US5+ charging into the flank to remove your opponents rank-bonus and gain the +1 yourself.

2 Chariot ain't a unit, but are two units ... the same with a Noble on Pegasus and a Chariot. A Noble in a Chariot would be US5 though.

ardude
23-08-2006, 21:09
really? alwais fought it did negate flanks. don't think this army will really work that great at all then..:(

TheWarSmith
23-08-2006, 23:44
I'm almost certain it's simply the numbers that are on the flank/rear that deny, not specific unit strength.

Just remember my original point about 2 chariots. Often due to their ld8, you'll cause both of them to stall for a turn if one goes stupid and it puts a much bigger risk when trying to make that crucial charge.

One option would be to place a noble in a chariot, as this would give it ld9.

Latro
24-08-2006, 07:35
BRB page 73 ... everytime when explaining about that specific rule the book mentions US of a single unit, never multiple unit or something like that.

On a sidenote: IMHO stupidity on ld9 still sucks. On average that still means one failed test each battle ... and because it's your most important heavy hitter that could turn out to be very bad.

ardude
24-08-2006, 09:32
@ thewarsmith it's unit strength, other wize a dragon also can't make a flank attack..

due some weaknesses a fought up myself and heering even more here ( that 2 chariots can't perform flank charges etc) the whole chariot idee is off.
could work on this army to make it a normal army but that wasn't the idee of the treat.

anyway all thanks for your commants

Asentaja
25-08-2006, 09:42
My friend once used a cold one chariot. In 6 turns he failed 5 stupidity tests.
Enough said.