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McMullet
21-06-2005, 12:05
I was just thinking, do nid weapons ever go haywire? Lesser creatures revert to their "instinctive behaviour" in the absence of a synapse creature, so it should be the same for a weapon. If a fleshborer was damaged, for example, and stopped secreting hormones to keep the ammo quiet, then would the beetles all burrow their way out and start eating their host? Since most weapons seem to be bioengineered from pre-existing life forms, this seems quite possible.

Cloudscape_online
21-06-2005, 12:17
In the middle of a battlefield against some nid's how are you going to tell? Bio-titans, heirodules, tyrants, carnifexes, lictors, zoanthropes, warriors, genestealers, gaunts and masses of rippers. Who's going to notice a Gaunt being eaten by his own gun? (Yes, I know I missed biovores, but they're hardly fron-line units, are they?)

Skander
21-06-2005, 12:22
But it could be noticed on biotitans...
"Hey look, that 20 meter long cannon-thing fired backwards! Fiuuu!"

Lord Lucifer
21-06-2005, 13:13
Symbiotic Weapons don't have thoughts.
They live off the host body, and the host body has control over them to some degree, able to trigger some physical reaction in some way (perhaps neural, perhaps chemical, or perhaps just the application of pressure in just the right spot to trigger an involuntary reaction)

The weapons don't have a sufficiently advanced mind to revert to any 'instinctive behaviour' that would differ significantly from what they do already


The bug carrying it, however...

McMullet
21-06-2005, 14:12
From this (http://uk.games-workshop.com/tyranids/bio-weapon-thesis/1/) site:


[of the Barbed Strangler] The typical rind is replaced by a catalytic epithelium. Upon impact this causes germination that is explosive and extremely rapid.
Couldn't an impact on the seed sac cause spontaneous germination?


[Fleshborer] Housed within is a large brood of Borer beetles that, once mature, is kept in a state of torpor by hormone emissions... Upon impact, the beetle, clinging tenaciously, begins to secrete digestive enzymes and uses its powerful jaws to begin burrowing into the target.
If the hormone gland is destroyed, wouldn't they all wake up, and go crazy?


Data collected from auspex and field examinations indicate animal intelligence. The lash whips will continue to attack any who approach long after the wielder is eliminated tests seem to indicate they do this by sensing brain-waves, perhaps another natural predation tactic appropriated by the Tyranidic horde for weapons applications.
I don't know how emotional lash whips are, but would it be possible to offend one? If so, I wouldn't like to have it strapped around my wrist at the time.

Barbarossa
21-06-2005, 14:31
Couldn't an impact on the seed sac cause spontaneous germination?


If the hormone gland is destroyed, wouldn't they all wake up, and go crazy?


Well, if you shoot down a bug on the table, who says that your Marine/Soldier/thingy killed it directly? Maybe he just hit the weapon and all the little weapon symbiotes just went on a killing spree.

FoolsJourney
21-06-2005, 17:14
except... be careful what you wish for. I can imagine it now.

Tyranid player. "Yes, OK, you killed my warrior, but his symbiotic weapon is still spurging out its beetles at you as you advance over its body..."


Who am I kidding? Who in their right mind advances towards a leaping, charging nid army with a much greater assault rang than you've got? :D

x-esiv-4c
21-06-2005, 17:52
Well, incase of a fire-arm rebellion the Nids should assimilate something with a genetic trigger safety mechanism :)

Typheron
21-06-2005, 21:15
there was one tale of a nid weapon that had been taken for experimentation by the imperium. They got a psyker to have a look at it and he went nuts after a while.


It tells of how he listened to its thoughts and that of the smaller creatures within it. they had a basic understanding of what they were and all they wanted to do was there "job", basically the ammo wanted to fly thorugh the air at things and the gun wanted the joy of spitting the ammo out. The gun also seamed to know friend from foe and was at least in part aware of the other surroundong humans although only in the sence that they were targets.

in the end the psyker picked the gun up and joined with it promptly killing the ships crew and eventually putting the gun into stasis over his own life.

TenTailedCat
22-06-2005, 00:33
there was one tale of a nid weapon that had been taken for experimentation by the imperium. They got a psyker to have a look at it and he went nuts after a while.


It tells of how he listened to its thoughts and that of the smaller creatures within it. they had a basic understanding of what they were and all they wanted to do was there "job", basically the ammo wanted to fly thorugh the air at things and the gun wanted the joy of spitting the ammo out. The gun also seamed to know friend from foe and was at least in part aware of the other surroundong humans although only in the sence that they were targets.

in the end the psyker picked the gun up and joined with it promptly killing the ships crew and eventually putting the gun into stasis over his own life.

...That's some messed up crap right there...

Lord Lucifer
22-06-2005, 03:23
McMullet, when outside of the range of the Hive Mind, tyranids revert to their base instincts.
The symbiotic weapons already operate on the instinctive level (and their minds are not really complex enough to deal with the direct influence of the hive, I'd warrant)

They are capable of only instinctive thought irrespective of the presence of the hive mind, it's what they're bred for

He Who Laughs
22-06-2005, 04:59
there was one tale of a nid weapon that had been taken for experimentation by the imperium. They got a psyker to have a look at it and he went nuts after a while.


It tells of how he listened to its thoughts and that of the smaller creatures within it. they had a basic understanding of what they were and all they wanted to do was there "job", basically the ammo wanted to fly thorugh the air at things and the gun wanted the joy of spitting the ammo out. The gun also seamed to know friend from foe and was at least in part aware of the other surroundong humans although only in the sence that they were targets.

in the end the psyker picked the gun up and joined with it promptly killing the ships crew and eventually putting the gun into stasis over his own life.

There's a lesson in this kiddies - don't talk to guns... they might talk back... :D

Delicious Soy
22-06-2005, 05:48
Or: guns don't kill people, Tyranid Bioweapons do.

I don't see how moving outside of synapse range would affect horomonal secretions, if that was true wouldn't a tyranid simply die because the hive mind was quietly reminding it to breathe?

EDIT: Kudos for the thread title, now all I can think of is a Tyrant admonishing its venom cannon, "Bad symbiote weapon! Bad!"

McMullet
22-06-2005, 11:10
McMullet, when outside of the range of the Hive Mind, tyranids revert to their base instincts.
The symbiotic weapons already operate on the instinctive level (and their minds are not really complex enough to deal with the direct influence of the hive, I'd warrant)

They are capable of only instinctive thought irrespective of the presence of the hive mind, it's what they're bred for
I see what you're saying. But the way I see it, the instincts are based on simple reactions to stimuli (the one about upsetting lash whips is a bit daft, I know...). What I'm saying is, couldn't these stimuli get confused? So the borer beetle instinctively jumps out if the gun and eats whatever it hits unless pacified by hormonal secretions, and the hormones stop and it finds it has another way out, wouldn't it just attack the first thing it spied, namely the gaunt carrying it? Of course, you could imagine the weapons would have some kind of phermonal/genetic hardwiring not to attack tyranids - if you can bioengineer a bolter, you can probably program it not to eat your face off if you drop it. It just seemed like a fun idea, that's all.

Lord Lucifer
22-06-2005, 11:29
In the case of moving outside of the Hive Mind's influence it wouldn't be likely, but somehow interfering with it by some other means could probably do it (I don't know, zap it with electricity?)

In which case, hell yeah it'd be fun :D

Wiseman
22-06-2005, 15:13
just imagine an entire squad of gaunts with guns suddenly accidently open fire on the squad of genestealers in front of them, how do you think the hive mind would react?

McMullet
22-06-2005, 15:23
I think it'd crack open a tube and have a good old laugh about it.

I wonder if that could happen? There was fluff (in 2nd ed. I think) about a planet that had become entirely populated with Hormagaunts (not a popular holiday destination methinks). If this planet became seeded with 'stealers, would they produce Hormagaunt-stealers, and would the Hormagaunts know not to attack them? Presumably one of the orignal stealers would eventually become a Broodlord ( la genestealer Patriarch, 2nd ed. again) and thus tap into the hive mind and become a synapse creature, but until then....

charlie_c67
22-06-2005, 15:29
just imagine an entire squad of gaunts with guns suddenly accidently open fire on the squad of genestealers in front of them, how do you think the hive mind would react?

It'd lick it's lips and sharpen it's meat hooks. More muscle/food on a stealers :D

Lord Lucifer
22-06-2005, 15:44
I think it'd crack open a tube and have a good old laugh about it.

I wonder if that could happen? There was fluff (in 2nd ed. I think) about a planet that had become entirely populated with Hormagaunts (not a popular holiday destination methinks). If this planet became seeded with 'stealers, would they produce Hormagaunt-stealers, and would the Hormagaunts know not to attack them? Presumably one of the orignal stealers would eventually become a Broodlord ( la genestealer Patriarch, 2nd ed. again) and thus tap into the hive mind and become a synapse creature, but until then....


Genestealers work in unison without the influence of the Hive Mind, and it's more psychic bullying than willing service when it's present anyway.

Hormagaunts are simple predatory killers outside of the Hive Mind's influence.

I doubt the Genestealers could pacify the Gaunts to the point where they're able to implant the genestealer seed.
That and Gaunts don't reproduce, do they?
How would they ever produce further generations of 'stealers and 'stealer hybrids? :confused:

I think it'd just end up a bloodfest, really.




But yeah, just remember even the genestealers and their cult are consumed by the 'nids
Sucks to be 'Stealers. Just get things set up and a nice secure little empire going for you then the bloody 'Nids show up to eat you. Hardly seems fair :p

McMullet
22-06-2005, 15:59
That and Gaunts don't reproduce, do they?

I did wonder about that, but the Hormagaunt planet suggests that they must be able to reproduce. I also seem to recall rippers being suggested as immature gaunts, but I'm not at all sure on that one. Maybe Gaunts can reproduce asexually or something, a bit like orks? The nids have been eating ork DNA for a while now.

Flame Boy
22-06-2005, 20:34
I do remember background about Hormagant infestations because they would lay eggs under the soil. Don't know where I read it though... possibly the 2nd ed 'Nid codex. Might be outdated fluff now.