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jimbobodoll
21-08-2006, 11:11
From the random musings of a disturbed mind:

Eldar have a large warp presence. They are also more likely to be psykers. Further, Eldar psykers have to mute their powers else they attract unwelcome attention. Ontop of this, when any Eldar dies, they are still concious...

From this i got an association between psychic powers and conciousness after death.

Humans don't have as 'bright' a presence in the warp. They are also less likely to be psychic. What about Human psykers then? The very idea of human psykers being concious when they die and being preyed on for all eternity by evil beasties... Is wonderfully disturbing to my diseased mind!

Further to this possibility, i considered the astropathic 'soul binding' ritual. Perhaps this is the best the imperium can offer its psykers? That when they die their souls will join the astronomicum's beacon as some kinda gestalt human conciousness radiating in the warp?

Discuss!

Terminatorphoenix
21-08-2006, 11:18
i see where your coming from and i do admit your theory does have merit especially if you take the book Grey Knights by ben counter as cannon(Its up to you if you do or not).


Further to this possibility, i considered the astropathic 'soul binding' ritual. Perhaps this is the best the imperium can offer its psykers? That when they die their souls will join the astronomicum's beacon as some kinda gestalt human conciousness radiating in the warp?

Or maybe the illumanati's influence reaches alot farther than we thought?Maybe the souls from the psykers are feeding the star child.

my two cents

Kage2020
21-08-2006, 14:32
They are also more likely to be psykers.
Technically speaking all Eldar are psychic, at least to some extent.


Further, Eldar psykers have to mute their powers else they attract unwelcome attention.
Not mute, but Craftworld Eldar Seers must utilise Seer Runes to channel their abilities, the runes acting as a 'fuse'. Just what this means is up for grabs, since GW has never really explained anything beyond the "cool image".


From this i got an association between psychic powers and conciousness after death.
Seems reasonable since the soul is defined as psychic energy (cf. Realms of Chaos: Lost and the Damned).


What about Human psykers then? The very idea of human psykers being concious when they die and being preyed on for all eternity by evil beasties... Is wonderfully disturbing to my diseased mind!
Yes, it is entirely reasonable that this is the case. Of course, balanced against this is just how powerful something has to be to maintain consciousness. One might argue that the average grade evidenced by human psykers (Theta grade, if you are to believe the statement of the Dark Heresy game designer, TS Luikart) is below the necessary "power" to maintain coherence after death. Or maybe not.


Perhaps this is the best the imperium can offer its psykers? That when they die their souls will join the astronomicum's beacon as some kinda gestalt human conciousness radiating in the warp?
The Soul Binding goes to give the Secondary Class psyker "some measure" of the Emperor's "indomitable will" and "power", that is to give them some resistance to the powers of the Warp (this is something that comes for 'free', as it were, with Primary Psykers) as well as giving them the ability to utilise "astrotelepathy".

Is the Soul Binding the "best" that the Imperium can offer its psykers? Well, Secondary Psykers either get Soul Bound if they are young enough (I would say), or they go to the adeptus astronomican if they are powerful enough (but not young enough, I would say), or they go to the Sacrifice. If you're lucky enough to be a Primary psyker then you can go and spread your genes! (Thus goeth one of the more subtle eugenics programmes in the Imperium! ;))

As to whether they will join the Astronomican's beacon as a radiating "human gestalt consciousness"? I'm going to go with a 'nah' for that one. Technically speaking individuals that survive death and maintain coherence in the warp, and survive anything that comes after them, could be reborn into new bodies. Or they could become servants of a 'higher power', become subsumed in that power or whatever.

Just some quick thoughts/points...

Kage

Asi the Red
23-08-2006, 19:35
Hey ya'.


As to whether they will join the Astronomican's beacon as a radiating "human gestalt consciousness"? I'm going to go with a 'nah' for that one.

Or they could become servants of a 'higher power', become subsumed in that power or whatever.

You wouldn't characterize the Astronomicon as a "higher power" that they could perhaps be subsumed into?

Khaine's Messenger
23-08-2006, 19:52
Eldar have a large warp presence.

I do not think it's a measure of quantity, but rather quality. Eldar souls burn longer and hotter, but nowhere near as brightly as human psykers, who are more like flares and flashes in the pan.


That when they die their souls will join the astronomicum's beacon as some kinda gestalt human conciousness radiating in the warp?

The astronomican is fed by the "continuous mental concentration of thousands of psykers", ie the Chosen of the Adeptus Astronomica. When they "die," they will not join it in any tangible or individual fashion, for the process literally consumes them. There may be a human "quality" to the Astronomican, but the manner in which the Astronomican currently operates is definately not to the Emperor's satisfaction if the HHCCG background is to be believed...nor would all human psykers go "there," as the Soul Binding does not seem to be related to it.

Kage2020
23-08-2006, 21:34
You wouldn't characterize the Astronomicon as a "higher power" that they could perhaps be subsumed into?
Not really. It is a force one that, as Khaine's Messenger suggests, has a human component (i.e. the 'celestial choir' that is becoming more common as an interpretation of the Astronomican), but that doesn't make it a warp power. Or at least not necessarily so.

Of course, if you like to play around with the 'fluff 'there are numerous interesting directions that you could take with it.

Kage

El_Machinae
24-08-2006, 10:03
I think it is entirely possible for a human to maintain consciousness after death, just highly unlikely. The warp is too destructive, and would tear the human to pieces.

Now, maybe a person could train themselves, during life, to survive death. Or maybe not. But it's certainly an idea for a cult.

ryng_sting
24-08-2006, 16:05
I doubt it'd work - although some cultists have a similar idea and try to foster enough power and then all commit ritual suicide, to generate a minor warp power. (A little like the Shamans who created the Emperor, but not much.) A soul's power reflects its ability to feel, think and consider, which is the Eldar - with the resources of their vast minds and greater depth of sense and consciousness - are more powerful than a human. Therefore only a powerful human pysker is likely to survive death with their soul intact, and even then have to hope the Chaos gods don't get them.

All of which suggests that the Emperor is off-limits to the Chaos gods, and he's lonely in the warp.

jimbobodoll
24-08-2006, 16:58
All of which suggests that the Emperor is off-limits to the Chaos gods, and he's lonely in the warp.

Awwww.... Sounds like he needs a hug! :D

schoon
24-08-2006, 17:04
There are indications that even non-psychic humans may have a significant presence in the warp after death, somewhat akin to may "ghost" stories from contemporary legend.

There are a few Black Library instances of "ghosts" contacting or warning psychically atuned individuals - though there are a greater number of "false" contacts where creatures of the warp are simply pretending to be "ghosts."

Thus, one might say that a human's afterworldly presence in the warp might be better linked to will power or strength of spirit as opposed to their psychic potential or "light" in the warp.