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BullBuchanan
30-03-2005, 05:52
I just picked up all of the models below off ebay for 90 bucks (heck of a deal imo) And was just wondering where I could improve the list. I know I want to make at least one, maybe 2 of the knights units Knights errant. And I'll probably also add the Green Knight(is this guy considered a cheese character? I was reading the army book today and he's absolutely sick for his point cost) King Louen isnt out of the question either. Well anyway, what do you think?

8 Knights of the Realm; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Barding; Knightly Vow;War Banner [25] @ 241 Pts

8 Knights of the Realm; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Barding; Knightly Vow;Twilight Banner [25] @ 241 Pts

8 Knights of the Realm; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Barding; Knightly Vow@ 216 Pts

8 Knights of the Realm; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Barding; Knightly Vow @ 216 Pts

5 Questing Knights; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Paragon; Barding; Questing Vow@ 158 Pts

3 Pegasus Knights; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Gallant; Knightly Vow@ 165 Pts

16 Peasant Bowmen;Longbow @ 101 Pts

1 Field Trebuchet @ 90 Pts

1 Bretonnian Lord; General; Lance; Grail Vow,Sirenne’s Locket,Armour of Agilulf,Sword of Might,Warhorse@ 265 Pts

1 Damsel of the Lady; Magic Level 2; Lore of Beasts; Barding,The Silver Mirror,warhorse@ 159 Pts

1 Paladin Battle Standard Bearer; Battle Standard Bearer; Grail Vow,Virtue of Duty,Tress of Isoulde,Warhorse@ 145 Pts

Casting Pool: 4

Dispel Pool: 3

Models in Army: 64

Total Army Cost: 1997

Akuma
01-04-2005, 15:32
drop the treb and ad more questors

BullBuchanan
03-04-2005, 18:55
drop the treb and ad more questors

what about grail knights?

Akuma
03-04-2005, 20:16
You would have to scrap one unit of realmers and the above mantioned element and leav questors as thay are but it could work - just remember always try to incloude at least 9 grails and +4 ward banner otherwise not to many or in other words to few will get to enemy lines ( biggest bret cannon and missile magnet )

Roman
03-04-2005, 20:23
just remember always try to incloude at least 9 grails and +4 ward bannerI personally think that 6 is a better idea since else there will be ALOT of points spent on 1 unit.... And 6 can still give a real punch.

About the list... looks ok at first glance, you took alot of realms though... and why 8 big?

Also, downgrade the damsel to lvl1 and give her 2 scrolls.

Peasant bowmen, make them skirmishers, cause then your sure they can all shoot, even when charged in the side etc..... maybe even take more (I personally like the thought of 40 bowmen which can all shoot even when in a very tight position :) )

Rest looks ok to me

Akuma
03-04-2005, 21:08
I personally think that 6 is a better idea since else there will be ALOT of points spent on 1 unit.... And 6 can still give a real punch.

not after 1 round of shooting - as with all cav moddels lose of 1 of them takes away multiply attacks

Roman
04-04-2005, 14:23
What kind of shooting phases do you face?

cause if they can kill a couple grails with 4+ ward they could also kill a unit of realms in a single turn....

Akuma
04-04-2005, 18:12
Like 2 cannons and 20 handgunners :/ my most usual opponent ( using my army borrowed form me ;) )

BullBuchanan
04-04-2005, 18:28
I personally think that 6 is a better idea since else there will be ALOT of points spent on 1 unit.... And 6 can still give a real punch.

About the list... looks ok at first glance, you took alot of realms though... and why 8 big?

Also, downgrade the damsel to lvl1 and give her 2 scrolls.

Peasant bowmen, make them skirmishers, cause then your sure they can all shoot, even when charged in the side etc..... maybe even take more (I personally like the thought of 40 bowmen which can all shoot even when in a very tight position :) )

Rest looks ok to me

Well I didn't "take" anything really. I bought all of the above models in an army deal off ebay for 90 bucks so I just threw a list together with what I bought. I made the knights 8 large because I had 32 and all my troops together plus magic came to around 2000 points, so I put in everyone I had. If I end up keeping all 4 or even 3 id like to switch 1 or 2 units to knights errant. I face alot of fear causing armies, and with low bretonnain LD i think it will come in handy.

Plus having 8 realms in a unit will still allow me to put two on the flanks in lance formation, even though I dont have a complete rank.

BullBuchanan
04-04-2005, 18:47
Like 2 cannons and 20 handgunners :/ my most usual opponent ( using my army borrowed form me ;) )

well the only shots they'll get at me will be long range, and thats a 5+ on a handgunner, so if 5 hit out of twenty and 4 wound(3+ to wound) that still leaves me with a 4+ armor save and then a 4+ ward save...i dont like their odds before my pegasus hit them and wipe out their whole unit. Not to mention max range on a handgun is 24 inches...so I think I can manage to stay away. And If they're using bows? Forget about it. Then I get a 3+ armor save.

I think in the anti-shooting department ill be ok. As long as I keep my pegasus out of LOS and i can manage to hit some of their high priority units with my treb, I dont think they'll even see it coming.

Also I asked this above, but I kind of got lost in the discussion. What is the stance on the green knight? Is he total cheese? I was just reading through the army book and i came upon his page. He is absolutely ridiculous for the points cost. For the price of my bret lord I could almost have him, and he'd knock the crap out of my lord any day.

Akuma
04-04-2005, 18:51
He's special char - thay are all bunch of crap :D - but it;s up to you and you'r friends what you want form the game.

BullBuchanan
04-04-2005, 19:00
I personally think adding special characters to the game adds to the enjoyment most of the time. I mean how interesting would history be if there were no heroes or standout people? Just a bunch of jobbers fighting meaningless wars ;) However that doesnt mean that I want to obliterate my opponent using one character either, that isnt fun for me or them.

Akuma
04-04-2005, 19:03
So I would say hes not over the top basicly you can use them without you'r opponent permission because thay are supposed to be ballanced for their points and from my EXP in playing mostly aginst an army containgig greeny ( althought it was in 3000 point format ) i wouldnt say he's going to ruin you'r game in any way.

Roman
04-04-2005, 19:44
I personally think adding special characters to the game adds to the enjoyment most of the time. I mean how interesting would history be if there were no heroes or standout people? Just a bunch of jobbers fighting meaningless wars ;) However that doesnt mean that I want to obliterate my opponent using one character either, that isnt fun for me or them.A brettonian lord is not a jobber :/ (whatever that may be).
Akuma Like 2 cannons and 20 handgunners :/ my most usual opponent And against everything else, those grails with 4+ ward will survive.... Besides, with 6 you will actually suffer less from the cannons (because now they can only kill 2 a turn, otherwise its 3.....

Akuma
04-04-2005, 20:43
And against everything else, those grails with 4+ ward will survive.... Besides, with 6 you will actually suffer less from the cannons (because now they can only kill 2 a turn, otherwise its 3.....

Yeah but will have 1 rank less and 4s6 attacks less and 2s3 attacks less ;)- i'll put this way if you take 8 + char you can have 6 of them acctualy hitting enemy whereas you take 6 ( i would take 5 and ad char ) there is a possiblity taht only 3 will get to fight

Etienne de Beaugard
05-04-2005, 01:25
The models you are working with will give you a good basic force, that will be both fun and effective, without additional models. Are your models already built?

Anyways, here are some suggestions:

Big Lance - Small Lance: A lance of 9 Bretonnian Knights hits like a ton of bricks on the turn it charges. About the only things that can stand up to a charge are large blocks of undead, Dwarfs, or Chaos warriors (and if the Bretonnian general brings two lances to bear on these units, they usually fall).

Unfortunately, the lance-of-9 has some serious drawbacks: weak hitting power on turn two of the combat and huge flanks. While the Bretonnian army list encourages bold (some would say foolhardy) tactics, you will end up with a lance stuck in a prolonged fight, being attacked from both the front and the flank. This is where the lance-of-6 comes in.

A small group of Bretonnian knights (I prefer 6 models) is a modest but effective fighting element. On a charge they will get 10 attacks (6 which are with lances), have a +1 rank bonus and can benefit from a full command group. The small size of the unit makes them very maneouvreable.

In my army, every large lance of knights will have an accompanying unit of 6 knights, whose job is to run distraction, countercharge, or add additional strength to an assault.

I generally use large lances of KotR and KE. My small lances are usually GK, QK or KotR.

In a 2K army, I like to have 3 large lances and 3 small lances. One of the large lances will be KE, with the Errantry banner. I try to put my general in one large lance and my BSB in another large lance. Mounted Damsels go with the small lance of GK or QK, to provide them with some additional magic resistance.

Bretonnian Magic... is not great. The Bretonnians are usually better taking paladins over mages. Fortunately, the Bretonnians can put up a strong magic defense with limited effort.

As others have suggested, make you Damsel level 1 with two dispel scrolls. Even with level two, most enemies will prevent her from casting spells. So, concentrate on short term defense. Dispell scrolls allow you to say 'No!' to certain key enemy spells, and with 4 dispell dice, you can reliably stop one other spell a turn. Since you should be charging by turn 2 (3 at the latest) this should be enough magic defense.

Stupid Hero Tricks - The Lords and Paladins of Bretonnia are great fun, and quite powerful. A careful combination of items and vows will produce great results. Remember though, your Lords job it to provide extra punch to a large lance. Generally, he should not be charging across the field alone, on some personnal quest (though I have been known to throw common sense to the wind and chase some dragon or a certain Grey Seer across the field).

Here are a couple of tricks:
Heartwood Lance, Virtue of the Joust - Your character gets to re-roll all to-hit and to-wound rolls on the turn you charge.

Gauntlet of the Duel, Virtue of Confidence - So long as your enemy unit has a champion to challenge, you pick a fight with him and get re-rolls. Cheaper than the combo above, it is basically as effective. And if the enemy lacks a champion, the unit is probably going to be crushed by the hit from the full lance of knights anyways. If taken on a lord, you can add the Morningstar of Fracasse, which will improve your chance of taking out a large enemy character.

On Vows: Not every Knightly Character must take the Grail Vow. Consider, most large lances will not be Grail Knights, so any character will be dragged with them if they fail a psychology test. To save points, only give the grail vow to characters who will be accompanying Grail Knights, or who so plan to make into a Dragonslayer.

For the Future: Grail Knights are very potent. I usually take a small lance of them in every army. A unit that is immune to psychology comes in real handy, and they can dish out a tremendous amount of punishment. I often put a mounted Damsel and a Warbanner with them. The unit unfortunately attracts a lot of fire though.

Mounted Yoemen are the best sacrificial troop you have. I always have at least one unit of 5 (with musician) and I often try for 2 units in an army. They can't really hurt anything, but they can march block, assault warmachine crews, threaten lone wizards, bait and flee from frenzied troops, etc. All these roles are very dangerous, and the unit is likely to die. Fortunately, they are cheap. Since the will likely die, keep costs low. Given the MY a musician though. They have low Ld and will need the musician to help them rally after they flee.

I hope this helps.

BullBuchanan
05-04-2005, 03:47
Bretonnian Magic... is not great. The Bretonnians are usually better taking paladins over mages. Fortunately, the Bretonnians can put up a strong magic defense with limited effort.

As others have suggested, make you Damsel level 1 with two dispel scrolls. Even with level two, most enemies will prevent her from casting spells. So, concentrate on short term defense. Dispell scrolls allow you to say 'No!' to certain key enemy spells, and with 4 dispell dice, you can reliably stop one other spell a turn. Since you should be charging by turn 2 (3 at the latest) this should be enough magic defense.

The Reason I have this, is because my main opponents(Ogres,Undead, and bretonnians) lack any decent amount of dispel dice, 4 at the most. With that being said I have a pretty good shot at getting at least one spell off a turn. And some of the spells are pretty devastating. Unless I start facing more diverse opponents I think This will work for now.



A small group of Bretonnian knights (I prefer 6 models) is a modest but effective fighting element. On a charge they will get 10 attacks (6 which are with lances), have a +1 rank bonus and can benefit from a full command group. The small size of the unit makes them very maneouvreable.

How do you arrive at 10? The most I can get is 9 (3 front knights+1 for champion;2 knights on flank total of 6 attacks plus 3 front horses.

Anyway, yea I think you're right about having side units. As of right now the only unit i have possible of accomplishing this is a Questing knight group of 5. My pegasus knights are too valuable for other things to have them sidekick some errants so what about this.

What Would You Think about a list similar to the one below.


8 Knights Errant; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Barding; Knightly Vow; Errantry Banner @ 201 Pts


1 Bretonnian Lord; General; Lance; Grail Vow; Armour of Agilulf; Sirenne’s Locket; Tress of Isoulde @ 265 Pts


5 Questing Knights; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Barding; Questing Vow @ 167 Pts


6 Knights of the Realm; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Gallant; Barding; Knightly Vow @ 168 Pts




8 Knights Errant; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vow @ 167 Pts

1 Paladin Battle Standard Bearer; Heavy Armour; Battle Standard Bearer; Knightly Vow; Virtue of Duty; War Banner @ 129 Pts


5 Grail Knights; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Barding; Grail Vow @ 220 Pts


6 Knights of the Realm; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Gallant; Barding; Knightly Vow @ 168 Pts



3 Pegasus Knights; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Full Command; Knightly Vow @ 195 Pts



1 Field Trebuchet @ 90 Pts


16 Peasant Bowmen; Stakes @ 96 Pts


1 Damsel of the Lady; Magic Level 2; Lore of Life; 2 Dispel Scrolls; Warhorse @ 165 Pts

Casting Pool: 4

Dispel Pool: 3

Models in Army: 65


Total Army Cost: 1999

I would have two groups of 8 Knights Errant. One would incorporate the Lord in the middle front rank(magic item 1 wound per turn max) and the other would have the BSB in the 2nd row in the center(to protect him from targeting)

One unit would place itself on the left side of the board, with its flank protected by the edge of the map. The other would do the same on the right side. On its inner flanks one units of Errants would be protected by 6 KOTR and 5 QK and the other would be protected by 6 KOTR and 5 GK.

I would deploy my bowmen with stakes, trebuchet and damsel at the back center of the board. My damsel has no range spells so it would be fine to keep here back there. I would also place my 3 pegasus knights in the center at a full 12 inches.

Praying on turn 1 I will get a good idea of how my opponent plans to move about the field. If my opponent plays the outside of the map, I simply advance my two units forward and crush him, if my opponent moves inside to get away from my devastating flanks I move all of my inner units in and pinch in my two Errant units, effectively boxing him in.

I have no real plans to charge on turn two unless necesarry and even then my onlyt worries should be my inner flanks and i will dispatch my KOTR's and QK's and GK's to take care of that. I want to primarily use this turn to counter move against my opponent and turn the heat up a little makiing him extremely nervous. Meanwhile Ill hit him with archers, my trebuchet and some devastating magic. I'll also be in the process of eliminating his missile troops with my pegasus knights, and also uses them to march block and bait into the center of the field where the enemy will be surrounded.

Well thats the just of it. I started thinking when you mentioned using big units supported by smaller ones, and this came to mind. What do you think?

BullBuchanan
07-04-2005, 01:07
any comments?

Etienne de Beaugard
07-04-2005, 17:43
It looks like a functional list. The only way to fine tune it is to play some games (at least 5). You've followed all the basics for a Bretonnian cavalry list:
*Large lances for impact
*Small support units that can keep up
*Focus on combat
*Basic magic defense.

Play and have fun.