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robertsjf
22-08-2006, 18:42
Let me preface it this way:
In the past, i had an ork fleet with Kroolboy, both types of cruisers, and a squadron of each of the escorts. I played primarily against an SM fleet and seemed to come out the worse for the wear (I'd, in short, bounce off of the SM fleet and the other player would then do awful, terrible things to me). I'm trying to figure out what I need to do in order to make the ork fleet work w/o space hulks or roks. Is it possible? Also, I'm now looking at an imperial fleet, chaos fleet, and craftworld eldar. Any tips? I'm going back to the shop as I had sold off said fleet so feel free to make suggestions w/o worrying about a model list. The ultimate reason why is that I'm playing a 3 system (BFG, Epic, 40k) campaign and if I can't land ground troops it'll be a single game system campaign for the orks...

Blagrot Squigbreff
22-08-2006, 21:48
My Ork fleets always did better with a Hulk included but if you want to avoid one then the best advice I can give is to use Terror ships with the heavy gunz removed and back them up with Onslaughts and Brutes (many brutes your opponents might not like seeing a whole fleet of them tho, but it is fun:p )

My big problem with most of the other units in the Ork fleet was that heavy gunz rarely get to fire so I avoid them as much as I can, this also means my knowledge of the battleships is limited but none of them look that great.
Marines are nasty for Orks as the Ork ship are vulnerable to ordnance and don't have lances to help beat the armour 6.

Chaos on the other hand are fairly fast and pack alot of firepower at generally long range, all four cruisers are great ships and I've seen and used fleets of only cruisers successfully. The battleships are decent and the grand cruisers are a bit mixed but the replusive is a very good craft, finally the escorts are also decent but the only really useful one IMO is the Infidel for the torpedoes.

I never collected to other two fleets but if you want more about the Orks or Chaos just ask:) .
Good luck.

ReDavide
22-08-2006, 22:06
Is it possible? Also, I'm now looking at an imperial fleet, chaos fleet, and craftworld eldar.

You're looking at using them or playing against them?

robertsjf
22-08-2006, 22:25
Sorry, playing against. Could wind up playing them depending on the whole ork outlook....

Getz
22-08-2006, 23:17
Unfortunately the Ork fleet is widely acknowledged as underpowered...

However, if you pack enough Killkroozers in you usually can't go far wrong.

Chaos is a particularly bad match up in my experience. They'll out gun you, out range you and out run you, however you should do okay against the Imperial Navy and iff you can get close enough Orks can be downright brutal against Eldar...

ArtificerArmour
23-08-2006, 18:57
Wait until firebase 1 for my ork tactica

robertsjf
23-08-2006, 23:01
So I just have to suffer humiliation and defeat until the first of September?

phindar
25-08-2006, 20:50
I am fairly new to the system but I have had success with a hulk in my army. However, I understand that you do not want to take one so this is my advice:

Play as an ork. Take lots of numbers. I just built 20 ramships. even if they can not ram, you are taking 20 armor 6 wounds (plus shields) + 40 gunz!

Take many fightabommers. Use them to intercept ordnance.

Fight close together. Massed high wound kroozers are hard to beat. Also, if you make squadrons, you can use the best leadership.

So... why don't you want a hulk? Most people will tell you that it is hulks that re-balance the ork fleet.

robertsjf
25-08-2006, 21:59
So... why don't you want a hulk? Most people will tell you that it is hulks that re-balance the ork fleet.

Fair question, several reasons:
1) Don't want to have to build one. I admit, I'm lazy.
2) I'm not a big fan of the fact that the staple of the fleet, the lynch-pin capital ship, happens to be several enemy ships, asteroids, and ice glued together
3) I want to play a sleek, mean Ork fleet

robertsjf
26-08-2006, 17:05
OK, I'm looking at the following:
Hammer Class Battle Kroozer
-Warlord
Terror Ship
Terror Ship
4 Brute Ramships
4 Brute Ramships
4 Brute Ramships

About 955 points, so 45 points left for upgrades. It's a drive forward fleet. I want to be able to bear down and use the prow mounted gunz, big gunz and bombardment cannon. I took the veritable horde of Ramships because, even though my opponent will hate me for it, it seems that the Brute is the only Ork Escort that acts like an Escort (ie moves faster and turns tighter than the capital ships) whereas the other Ork Escorts are the same slow moving and turning statline and thus pointless other than swelling numbers. I took Terror ships instead of Kill Kroozers for the fighta-bomma support (fighta-bommaz being the only other element in an Ork fleet with any manuverability whatsoever)

Quick question: Can I /Should I squadron my capital ships? I want to keep them as a solid mass with the escorts and fighta-bommaz on the periphery or reacting to crisis points.

'Ere We Go, take the list apart/make suggestions for the last 45 points...

ArtificerArmour
26-08-2006, 17:13
you really need more escorts, You'll be ripped by faster fleets. Use your number advantage. Drop the battleships and take some savages/ravages.

robertsjf
26-08-2006, 17:23
So the only viable ork fleet's one with a hulk and then nothing else except escorts? I mean, the fleet I proposed has 15 ships at 1000 points. My Chaos and Imp opponents will only have about 10 ships. Not to mention the 8 squadrons I'll be able to spit out...

ArtificerArmour
26-08-2006, 18:01
They will also be able to pound you from afar using lances and combined waves of torpedoes and bombers on your escorts. If that's the fleet you want go for it.

robertsjf
26-08-2006, 19:16
Lances I can see, but shouldn't my ordinance cancel out their ordinance? I'll potentially have 12 squadrons of fighta-bommaz floating around. I was looking at the Hammer and decided to swap it out with another terror ship so I could dump in another 4 brutes. so that's a guaranteed 12 squadrons of fighta-bommerz for those torps/bombers. That's 3 cruisers and 16 escorts.

Gamezilla_Ninja
27-08-2006, 03:54
It's only guaranteed the first time you launch ordnance. The problem with orks is they're unlikely to reload it for a second wave in time.

robertsjf
27-08-2006, 03:58
What if I squadron the carriers to get the benefit of the highest ld?

Ravening Wh0re
27-08-2006, 07:46
*sigh* I've very rarely won with my orks. I don't have nor want a hulk either.

My fleet of 6000pts always manages to get outmaneouvred and outgunned

robertsjf
27-08-2006, 15:13
Then what does the hulk add? It's extremely slow. Do they just float around launching f-b and hoping something comes within 45 cm? Are opponents just not able to pass up the target even though it'll take 40 hits to crack it? Is it a 600 point distraction that allows the rest of the Ork fleet to "do something?"
I was hoping I would be able to squadron 3 Terrors for the best leadership, drive towards the enemy fleet, engage the biggest target I could with all 3 at close range, using that highest leadership to do things like reload ord, come to a new heading, lock on as appropriate. I know this battleplan's optimistic but I would have the highest ld to leverage as far as special orders are concerned.

On a side note: Any idea where to get Brutes? Seems GW pulled them off of the US website and I did a search and didn't retrieve anything that way. Are they still available?

Cap'n Umgrotz
27-08-2006, 16:27
I find Orks a real challenge.
One piece of advice- do not underestimate the ramming ability of kroozers.
10 hits and a 6+ front makes them ideal, and it's dead orky.
I want window wipers for Da One Eyed Boar, my bosses kroozer to get rid of all the splatted bugs.

robertsjf
27-08-2006, 18:49
Good point, but withthe way their prow batteries are set up is it better to ram or shoot? With 6 str Heavy Gunz and d6+2 Gunz (average 5.5 str), is it just a question of distance? Anything over 15cm and ram, closer and lock on and shoot?

Cap'n Umgrotz
27-08-2006, 18:59
Hmmm.
Good question.
If the enemy is coming head on, then shoot and never ram.
I learned that the hard way on a 'nid hive ship.
I'd say go for your gunz a lot, but never pass on the oppertunity to hit someone in the side with a ram.
All of that said, I don't really feel I have enough experience to give you a proper answer so I'd say keep plugging away and try out everyone's suggestions 'til you find one that works. The ramming wasn't really considered or careful the first time I did it, I just went "Screw it. I wonder what ramming with something this big would do." and it worked.

Ivan Stupidor
27-08-2006, 20:01
The ramming wasn't really considered or careful the first time I did it, I just went "Screw it. I wonder what ramming with something this big would do." and it worked.

Now that's the proper orky method.

Sojourner
27-08-2006, 22:24
The Brutes are a novelty unit - can make a huge mess when they get in a good attack run, but are a liability in a straight fight and suck points from your escort pool.

It's naturally very difficult to advise on ork escorts - as their powerful units are so unreliable they may well let you down, whereas the reliable ones are underpowered on their own.

Just take a broad selection, lump them together, throw caution to the wind and play like an Ork, I suppose.

robertsjf
27-08-2006, 22:55
It's naturally very difficult to advise on ork escorts - as their powerful units are so unreliable they may well let you down, whereas the reliable ones are underpowered on their own.


but once again, it seems that the Brutes are the only Ork escorts that act like escorts, the rest of them have the exact same movement stats as the Ork Kroozers and the only thing that makes them slightly more nimble is being able to make their 45 degree turn prior to moving 10 cm. And Brutes only run 25 pts, is that really so expensive for what they do?

phindar
28-08-2006, 00:21
Ork scorts aren't that bad. Just make sure you take the right mix.

Rams are great. They are fast(er) and if you get to ram, they can really pay themselves. Being so cheap, they are also extra wounds/meatfoder. Plus, you can use them in the same way you use ordnance: to make sure the enemy moves in a desired way. Just make ramming a threat and the enemy will avoid them getting closer to your gunz.

Mix one torpedo escort for every 2 gun escorts. They are cheaper. Make sure they are the closest targets so that they get hit first. Use the squadron as a shooting squadron. When you have the chance, launch your topedos. If you can reload, fine! if not, who cares? It is a shooty squadron.

As for the hulk, to me the best advantage is its gravity well.
Ramming isn't something easy. So make sure that your brutes are always within the well. When you want to ram, you have a FREE turn to ensure that you don't miss.

Plus, 60cm lances and a hell lot of ordnance.
One way to keep your enemy's ordnance from attacking your ships is defending from your own. And 3x2d6 ordnace is A LOT of ordnance.
On average, you will PASS your reload each turn. LD 7 (6+1 for special orders) with a reroll means that it is unlikely to fail. Yes, not something SURE but not a bad chance, really.
If you don't want a hulk, you can replace it with a battlekroozer but it is hardly as effective.

robertsjf
03-09-2006, 13:58
OK, read the tactica in Firebase and if I'm correct the tenents are:
a) one cruiser per 500 points and put a warboss on the cruiser
b) everything else escorts, emphasis on the brute
correct?

ArtificerArmour
03-09-2006, 14:11
That's about right, the warboss reroll and skills help you alot when you need it.

stecal
11-09-2006, 04:35
Thing I found about Orks is that you better ram and board whenever possible up close since once you pass thru the enemy fleet they will be able to turn quicker and tear up your weak rear armor. There is a very good reason that warlords double your boarding strength -- use it!

Ram ships are quite good at dealing with enemy escorts with their LFR arc. Kill off any escorts ASAP, esp Imp or Tau ones with torps as they will get behind you and fire torps at your rear 4+ armor. I often try to get a pile of ram ships AHF up one flank so I can threaten him from front & side. 10 ram ships looks like a lot to most players, even though to an Ork it is a measly 250 pts. It either works or they have to dedicate a lot of shooting and escorts to get rid of them allowing my Kroozers to close.

Dakari-mane
11-09-2006, 11:22
I have another tactic you might try but its from a few years ago & hasnt been tried recently.

I used as many Terror ships as I could get in squadrons with as many re-rolls as I can get per squadron.

Then I launch wave after wave after wave after wave of Boarding torpedos & assault craft. I just swamp my opponent in boyz & boarding actions. This way you just climb up the critical hit chart.

I only use the LD re-rolls if I roll a double otherwise I am happy to miss a turns shooting.

It should still work unless the rules have changed.

SPACE IS GREEN!!!
:skull: :skull: :skull:

Nkari
11-09-2006, 13:42
But we all know that assault boats are to good.. ;)

Getz
11-09-2006, 13:58
Also, with the Revised Ordnance rules you can create the same massed wings of bombers and assault craft you used to be able to.

Cap'n Umgrotz
12-09-2006, 02:20
Beware 'nids with that tactic, that's all I can say.
They are superb boarders.

Rpait
12-09-2006, 05:01
Where could I find said revised rules?

Dakari-mane
12-09-2006, 09:58
Where could I find said revised rules?

http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/rulebook.asp

Here :chrome:

Da Reddaneks
12-09-2006, 10:07
I am very glad that this thread has come up. My local gaming group is going to start a BFG contengent and i, of course, will be running the best army in the whole dang 40K universe .... ORKS! anyway, i dont know anything about BFG so any Ork BFG Taktika will be read by at least me.

ArtificerArmour
13-09-2006, 08:54
You read firebase yet?

Da Reddaneks
13-09-2006, 16:52
not the whole thing. so basically just read that and steal your fleet, huh? sounds like good advice. i will do it.