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Twisted Ferret
24-08-2006, 05:28
I have a Chaos Lord, a gigantic mutated sorcerer who has seen the very hells themselves, the equal of ten mortal men and perhaps more, a no-longer-human who has been killing and slaughtered since he was a child - a veeerrry long time - and he runs away. Because he got one more wound than he gave in a single combat with a character that cost roughly half the points he did.

Same thing happens with my Warriors. They're huge and brutal men, born killers, denizens of the Wastes of Chaos where the life they live would drive a Dwarf mad... and they run from a unit of Halberdiers. Straight into my Chosen... my Chosen... practically evil incarnate, walking in daemonic armour... my Chosen, who then procede to run off the *********** table edge. In another game, my Marauders - my fodder - ran from yet more Halberdiers and made my Lord RUN AWAY. MY LORD, I TELL YOU, MY GODDAMN CHAOS LORD RAN AWAY BECAUSE HE SAW CANNON FODDER... AAAAARGGH!!!!

WHERE IS THE SENSE IN THIS, I ASK YOU?!

NakedFisherman
24-08-2006, 05:50
Breaking isn't psychology.

Chaos units generally don't have to worry much about psychology. The only two that do are Nurgle and Tzeentch, and it isn't that hard to imagine either getting some whispers in their ears that tell them to book it.

DeathMasterSnikch
24-08-2006, 06:13
Breaking isn't psychology.

Chaos units generally don't have to worry much about psychology. The only two that do are Nurgle and Tzeentch, and it isn't that hard to imagine either getting some whispers in their ears that tell them to book it.

Yeh, 'Oi, lads, Grandpa Nurgle has a cake in the oven!' *Army withdraws from battle, shocked empire faces follow'

Psychology's fine. Havn't had a problem with it and I've only played skaven for the last few years. Wouldn't you run if you'd conqured hell, came back and some empire lads fresh out of school managed to do more damage than you?

Neknoh
24-08-2006, 06:30
Tzeentch has the weakest Psychology of all chaos, just wait untill you loose combat by 1 aggainst Zombies.

But, the big thing here, is that you didn't support your units properly, a head to head charge into an empire line is usually a bad idea, take out the various Detatchments so as not to get flankcharged.

Also, your Tzeentch Lord was Outnumbered by a Terrorcauser if we are talking about the combat between him and the enemy Electorcount on a Griffon, thus, he would still have autobroken when he lost combat.

Despite your lord being badass, he does know when odds are too much aggainst him, here he stands, a sword and a shield, nearly unable to wound any of the two, the Grifon prepares to eat him, he runs away to live to die another day... or so he thought.

Mad Makz
24-08-2006, 06:33
You have seen hell and terror's sure, but you know that your gods are fickle. Suddenly all those visions of glory in the name of your chosen god and assent into godhood are replace by the vision of yet one among millions of the ashen skulls at the bottom of the Bloodgods Throne, or the fear that the gods do not indeed favour you this day and you have been tricked by their treachery.

Those who do pacts with the dark denizens of the forbidden realms do not really trust them just as they know that they are cruel and fickle gods. Better to make a tactical retreat then be one more ashen bone then wait until a day when the gods do indeed favour you.

Now, as for Panic, the chances of your average Chaos Lord failing a panic test is slim. Nurgle and Tzeentch might, but Warriors of Nurgle fear death above all else (which is why they turned to Nurgle in the first places) so this makes sense and Warriors of Tzeentch know more than any other how fickle the gods are and the value of patience and insurrection over outright battle (indeed one would think it is rare that a Tzeentchian lord would march to open war compared to the other gods, rather imploring his twisted masters for the knowledge and secrets to overcome his opponent without taking to battle, and only revealing himself for the inevitable victory.).

The Lords of Khorne know nothing but bloodlust, but failing at marshall combat and not killing all before them is a sure sign of spite from Khorne, and they know in the end Khorne may well favour the enemies on this day, anyways skull is fine for his throne.

Slaanesh, well they ignore psychology, so apart from breaking, they are undoubtedly the most fearless.

Undivided have a great resilience to the terrors of war what with a re-roll, so I can't see what you'd be complaining about there (apart from perhaps real bad luck. :) )

snurl
24-08-2006, 08:22
Aint there some banner Chaos troops can take to make them stubborn or immune to psychology or unbreakable or springtime fresh or something like that?

Chaos aint my thing.

thommo
24-08-2006, 08:47
i think Mad Makz covered it well - on the face of it they wouldn't run given the "horrors" they'd seen, but i reckon the fluff of the chaos gods turning on them in displeasure would effect them....would me anyways! ;)

gorenut
24-08-2006, 09:31
Not to mention Chaos as a whole tend to be concerned with self-preservation above all else except for the extreme cases. So as deadly as they are, they'll high-tail it when they think things are getting too thick just to save their own hides.

Chiron
24-08-2006, 10:16
if your having trouble with Chaos running away I'd hate to hear you say you were starting an Orc army

Kedlav
24-08-2006, 10:36
Play Night Goblins exclusively before whining about high-LD armies...

idinos
24-08-2006, 11:31
What fantasy needs is more fearless units and Ld9 troops... really!!

Alathir
24-08-2006, 12:13
Yeah, that's the part of warhammer that makes it funny. My unit of eternal guard, led by a highborn, these elves are supposedly meant to fight to the very last elf even if the rest of the army legs it... but noooo my unit loses one guy to a screaming skull catapult and decide to run off the board! Even when I gave them the specific job of guarding the Oak of Ages....

****

Dtrik
24-08-2006, 12:19
Mmmmm, Lizardmen Cold Blooded. Rare is the day that you see a lone block of saurus run from overwhelming odds.:D

EvC
24-08-2006, 12:32
You can't really complain, there's not much chance to beat a Chaos Lord in combat or outfight a unit of Chosen, so what else is there to do but to make them run away? Shoot them? Hah...

Bloodknight
24-08-2006, 12:50
Actually the fact that psychology does anything is what makes WFB in my eyes better than 40K (though I have more 40K armies). My main army at the moment are my Dogs of war, in which half of the units tend to be fleeing all of the time (350 point blocks of pikemen and Ogres...);).
If you think it´s bad that your Chaos Lord gets broken in combat than look at my Level 4 Wizard on Pegasus who comes in at a hefty 355 points and can easily be panicked by 5 fleeing duellists next to him, and then runs off the board ;).

kd7svh
24-08-2006, 16:39
I have a Chaos Lord, <SNIP> runs away. <SNIP> run <SNIP> run off the *********** table edge. <YET MORE SNIPPAGE>

WHERE IS THE SENSE IN THIS, I ASK YOU?!

This has to be the most unbelievable whine I have seen in a long time. As others have already posted, try playing an army that doesn't:

a) Have incredible death dealing stats
b) High leadership PLUS extra opportunity to successfully pass said leadership tests, etc.
c) Realise that dice (and therefore probabilities) are involved meaning that sometimes things don't go your way no matter how UBER-LEET your army is


This is the same kind of crying you occasinally here from Space Marines players:

"WHAT??!?!?! I LOST?!?!? But.. But... But.. I'm playing the super-kick-ass-ness army, I should NEVER lose!" :rolleyes:

ebolatheripe
24-08-2006, 19:16
In regards to chaos fluff, I think all the powers reactions to braking is pretty accurate.

Khorne as a god and his followers would care nothing about fear or terror as they are worked into such a frenzy, they just want to kill. That is until they loose and they believe there God has forsaken them. That would take the wind out of there sails.

Slannesh and His/Her followers craves all sensations, including a good axe to the head and death.

Nurgle and His followers fear nothing, but are perhaps the most logical thinking of all the marked chaos followers. So they would be able to see a battle not going there way.

Tzeentch and It's followers would probably be most directly controlled by there God and I could see them hearing an instruction to retreat during battle. They know they could never understand the complex reasoning and plotting of Tzeench, and so they obey without question.

Twisted Ferret
24-08-2006, 22:51
Psychology's fine. Havn't had a problem with it and I've only played skaven for the last few years. Wouldn't you run if you'd conqured hell, came back and some empire lads fresh out of school managed to do more damage than you?
No, I'd be effin' angry! :p


But, the big thing here, is that you didn't support your units properly, a head to head charge into an empire line is usually a bad idea, take out the various Detatchments so as not to get flankcharged.

Also, your Tzeentch Lord was Outnumbered by a Terrorcauser if we are talking about the combat between him and the enemy Electorcount on a Griffon, thus, he would still have autobroken when he lost combat.
Ah. Still, though, my Lord is more mutated and ugly than a Griffon... I can't see him being Terrorized by anything less than a dragon! :P Thanks for the advice, though.


You have seen hell and terror's sure, but you know that your gods are fickle. Suddenly all those visions of glory in the name of your chosen god and assent into godhood are replace by the vision of yet one among millions of the ashen skulls at the bottom of the Bloodgods Throne, or the fear that the gods do not indeed favour you this day and you have been tricked by their treachery.
Bah, maybe so. Still, I would imagine my army to be at least a little steadfast, and not so easily swayed... Archaon had no such trouble! :mad:


You can't really complain, there's not much chance to beat a Chaos Lord in combat or outfight a unit of Chosen, so what else is there to do but to make them run away? Shoot them? Hah...
His cannons did do a number on me...


Actually the fact that psychology does anything is what makes WFB in my eyes better than 40K (though I have more 40K armies). My main army at the moment are my Dogs of war, in which half of the units tend to be fleeing all of the time (350 point blocks of pikemen and Ogres...).
If you think itīs bad that your Chaos Lord gets broken in combat than look at my Level 4 Wizard on Pegasus who comes in at a hefty 355 points and can easily be panicked by 5 fleeing duellists next to him, and then runs off the board .
Heh, I usually like psychology. But for the past three games, I have lost nearly every leadership test I've had to take. :eek:


This has to be the most unbelievable whine I have seen in a long time. As others have already posted, try playing an army that doesn't:

a) Have incredible death dealing stats
b) High leadership PLUS extra opportunity to successfully pass said leadership tests, etc.
c) Realise that dice (and therefore probabilities) are involved meaning that sometimes things don't go your way no matter how UBER-LEET your army is


This is the same kind of crying you occasinally here from Space Marines players:

"WHAT??!?!?! I LOST?!?!? But.. But... But.. I'm playing the super-kick-ass-ness army, I should NEVER lose!"
Why do you think I took Chaos, *******? I wanted an army that had incredible death-dealing stats and high leadership. I don't expect half my army to run away every game... I would've taken Night Goblin or Skaven if I had wanted that. Like I said, for the past THREE GAMES I have failed nearly every test of psychology I'd had to take. In fact, the only one I can remember passing is with my Marauders, incredibly enough. My opponent has never had to actually do much damage; for half the games I've played I've just run away and given him victory points without his army lifting a pike. :wtf: I don't expect to get a goddamn TWELVE on my leadership test FOUR TIMES IN ONE GAME FOR THREE GAMES!


Tzeentch and It's followers would probably be most directly controlled by there God and I could see them hearing an instruction to retreat during battle. They know they could never understand the complex reasoning and plotting of Tzeench, and so they obey without question.
Could be, but recall that these retreats weren't out of the blue and were actual responses to defeat...

Mad Makz
24-08-2006, 23:35
You truely are cursed by the dark gods with bad luck- Serves you right for playing Chaos. :)

Truth be told you may not expect to roll 12 for leadership tests 4 times in 3 games, but how many test did you take across those two games? If you took 4 tests and rolled 4x12's, that's extremely unlikely. If you rolled 20 tests and rolled 4x12's, that's very unlikely. If you rolled 40 tests and rolled 4x12's that's somewhat unlikely etc etc.

Work out the likelihood, then you can mark yourself on the "Curse by the God's"(TM) chart. It is available at all good hobby retailers and tells you exactly how many posts of complaint and what sort of expectation of posts of sympathy you will receive when posting on Warseer. (e.g you may score Thrice Cursed by the Gods, which allow you three posts of complaint and three posts of sympathy).

For a special additional price you can also buy Blessing of the Gods(TM). This special additional chart allows you to compare your current good or bad luck with what sort of reparations to your miniatures/gaming environment you need to make to improve/continue your run of luck. It also includes a handy chart that you can show to your opponent to indicate that he is SO lucky and you SO unlucky that he should bestow you with an additional X points per battle to even things up a little.

:)

Twisted Ferret
24-08-2006, 23:55
You truely are cursed by the dark gods with bad luck- Serves you right for playing Chaos. :)

Truth be told you may not expect to roll 12 for leadership tests 4 times in 3 games, but how many test did you take across those two games? If you took 4 tests and rolled 4x12's, that's extremely unlikely. If you rolled 20 tests and rolled 4x12's, that's very unlikely. If you rolled 40 tests and rolled 4x12's that's somewhat unlikely etc etc.
Bah, I can't remember the exact numbers... but it was on the order of 30 tests, I think. And okay, maybe about two twelves per game... but also a lot of 11s and 10s. :p Even my opponent remarked that I had horrible luck. Not one wound with 20 Warriors, and then two sixes for a LD test... >_<


Work out the likelihood, then you can mark yourself on the "Curse by the God's"(TM) chart. It is available at all good hobby retailers and tells you exactly how many posts of complaint and what sort of expectation of posts of sympathy you will receive when posting on Warseer. (e.g you may score Thrice Cursed by the Gods, which allow you three posts of complaint and three posts of sympathy).

For a special additional price you can also buy Blessing of the Gods(TM). This special additional chart allows you to compare your current good or bad luck with what sort of reparations to your miniatures/gaming environment you need to make to improve/continue your run of luck. It also includes a handy chart that you can show to your opponent to indicate that he is SO lucky and you SO unlucky that he should bestow you with an additional X points per battle to even things up a little.
:)
If only there were such a thing! :D

ebolatheripe
25-08-2006, 02:24
Could be, but recall that these retreats weren't out of the blue and were actual responses to defeat...

Tzeentch could still order a retreat while the warrior wants to continue fighting.

Falkman
25-08-2006, 08:37
Why do you think I took Chaos, *******? I wanted an army that had incredible death-dealing stats and high leadership. I don't expect half my army to run away every game... I would've taken Night Goblin or Skaven if I had wanted that.

Incredibly nicely formulated, you&#180;re sure to make many friends that way :rolleyes:

Ofc you don't expect stuff to happen, but it doesn't matter how good your stats are, the dice can still screw you royally.

zak
25-08-2006, 10:06
kd7svh made a good point in a reasonable manner. The response he got was rude and a little uncalled for. I understand that psychology can be annoying when you have invested in high point cost, high leadership models, but then if you didn't want to run, play Slaanesh....and stop moaning!

Festus
25-08-2006, 12:22
Wow,

a bit of cheese to your whine?

unbelievable. :(

Instead of trying to fluff up your army (oh my god, MY army is soo the roxxorz !!!1one!1! eleven!), learn to play properly, so as to avoid most Ld tests.... :rolleyes:

Festus

Captain Brown
25-08-2006, 17:33
I think this thread has run its course.

Captain Brown
WarSeer Inquisition

Thread Closed.