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Alathir
27-08-2006, 09:52
Just a quick question, do these weapons require line of sight?

Atrahasis
27-08-2006, 10:07
Yes, however they have very special rules for LOS.

The Engineer who aims the thing has a magic viewfinder that can see through anything but hills, so essentially the only things that block LOS are hills.

Alathir
27-08-2006, 10:19
I see.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

DeathlessDraich
27-08-2006, 11:35
Not just hills. Any significantly tall stony feature blocks the Cannon.
Stone buildings (but not wooden) and high stone walls also block the Warpcannon.

It has a 4+ Ward save as well but like everything else Skaven, a balancing sting in the tail - it always flees when charged and hence is easily destroyed..

Multifarious
27-08-2006, 22:37
Out of interest, if one were a right git couldn't you declare a charge on the very first turn, make it run and perhaps run off the table? Obviously it would be a failed charge, but I don't think it has to be a realistic charge to work, I may be wrong though.

eldrak
27-08-2006, 22:39
I bet someone at GW is a fan of Eraser or perhaps one of the James Bond games with "Farsights"

skavenguy13
27-08-2006, 22:42
It's clearly stated somewhere that you need to make REASONABLE charges, or else it doesn't count as charging. Pretty much like undead, 25" away: "I was going to move only 4 anyway, might as well be a failed charge".

The cannon is excellent for character sniping, even behind units. Only stone and hills block it as far as I know.

DeathMasterSnikch
28-08-2006, 06:05
Yep, anything made from rock stops it.

Milgram
28-08-2006, 07:09
what about stonetrolls?

Festus
28-08-2006, 08:02
Hi

It's clearly stated somewhere that you need to make REASONABLE charges, or else it doesn't count as charging. Pretty much like undead, 25" away: "I was going to move only 4 anyway, might as well be a failed charge".
Very correct: You may not declare charges that wil obviously fail.

Festus

Sherlocko
28-08-2006, 08:14
So if you have this thing wich make you see through solid objects, how the heck does he see what he aims at? :wtf:

Falkman
28-08-2006, 08:21
Schhh, it is magic ;)
Obviously his eyepiece is so advanced that it can see the difference of a tree and a living being :p

Latro
28-08-2006, 08:31
What annoyed me most about it was the fact that there's no crew to shoot and it's so *******' tough that two misfires explosions didn't even manage to wound it ... :eyebrows:

Yes, yes ... I know I only have to charge it, unfortunately for me all the nearby Ratling Guns, Jezzails and Warplightning zapping Engineers didn't agree with that.

(I'm not bitter, no really)

Alathir
28-08-2006, 14:45
How the hell are you meant to get the charge on these things, if they hide behind a building, you cant see it initially so you have to charge behind it and try next turn, in the meantime it just turns and blows you away.

TheWarSmith
28-08-2006, 15:08
You have the right to declare the charge even if you're nowhere close. I simply won't make charge reactions(fear, flee,etc.), but if you want to limit yourself to not marching, feel free.

It's tough if he's behind a building, yes. Another thing to do is cause panic around it. It'd ld5 and obviously doesn't have ranks to bolster his ld.

Sherlocko
28-08-2006, 15:12
Erh, I think there is a rule wich limit you to only declare charges wich you feel is do-able. A charge wich you think will fail is not allowed to declare.

Atrahasis
28-08-2006, 15:13
You have the right to declare the charge even if you're nowhere close. No, you haven't.

Another "house rule" perhaps? :angel:

TheWarSmith
28-08-2006, 15:31
in a way yes, just a reward for a person being stupid enough to declare 25" charges and penalize them for it.

It's never something that's come up really cause i don't play with people stupid enough to attempt it

T10
28-08-2006, 15:38
"Stupid" as in "ruthlessly cunning"?

-T10

shadow hunter
28-08-2006, 16:08
dont worry about the WLC. Mine doesn't do anything.

either roll S2 all the time - or misfire, or the very occasional S10 - but then roll a 1 to wound. :p :eyebrows:

eldrak
28-08-2006, 17:33
You have the right to declare the charge even if you're nowhere close.

This would be easily abusable, eg. declare charges with your screen so they'll move away before the units they were protecting can make their charge (obviously you left some space for them to see their target).

TheWarSmith
28-08-2006, 17:40
You guys aren't taking that statement in context. Feel free to declare it, but I'm also going to feel free to make absolutely no reaction to it, so I won't flee, test for fear, stand/shoot, etc.

What I was trying to say is that no, you can't really charge from 25" just to get the reaction.

Flame
28-08-2006, 21:55
Of course, the real question is 'What is a reasonable charge?' For some people, who genuinly cannot guess ranges this leeway has to extend.

DarkTerror
28-08-2006, 22:31
Of course, the real question is 'What is a reasonable charge?' For some people, who genuinly cannot guess ranges this leeway has to extend.

Well, many people just move things back (or don't move them at all to begin with) if the charge fails

rhodeman77
29-08-2006, 01:09
the only real problem i find is with flyers and the WLC charge reaction. it is a lot harder to tell 20" than 8". so just get some furies or harpies or the such and it will be off the table pretty easy.

athamas
29-08-2006, 08:08
stick a unit of dragon ogres infront of it, then dare them to shoot them..

if they do, you will take no damadge and gain frenzy...


yeah it only works for 2 armiesbut still..

Falkman
29-08-2006, 08:25
Of course, the real question is 'What is a reasonable charge?' For some people, who genuinly cannot guess ranges this leeway has to extend.

After declaring the charge, measure to see if it reaches the WLC, if it does, then flee with the cannon, if it doesn't, stand and laugh.

Atrahasis
29-08-2006, 12:41
After declaring the charge, measure to see if it reaches the WLC, if it does, then flee with the cannon, if it doesn't, stand and laugh.

That approach turns what is supposed to be a disadvantage into an advantage, and so is unacceptable.

I for one know that I'd LOVE my Empire war machines to be able to decide their charge reaction after the charge is found to be in/out of range.

Falkman
29-08-2006, 13:01
Isn't that how it works?
You declare a charge reaction immediately upon being declared charged, but don't you then measure to see if youīre actually within charge range, and if not, discount the reaction?

That's the only way I can see charges against the WLC not being abused.
Otherwise you can, as previously stated, charge from across the board, and just say that YOU thought it was a reasonable charge.

Atrahasis
29-08-2006, 13:20
Isn't that how it works?
You declare a charge reaction immediately upon being declared charged, but don't you then measure to see if you´re actually within charge range, and if not, discount the reaction?

No.

If the charge fails, you still get to Stand and Shoot, and you must still flee. The only difference is that you only take Fear/Terror tests if the charge is found to be in range.

The order is (in 6th):

1. Declare Charges
2. Declare Reactions
3. Resolve Reactions
4. Rally/Compulsory
5. Measure charges and take any appropriate Psychology tests, applying result as necessary
6. Move chargers

Yes, the WLC cannon rule is easily abused, and no, there is no easy fix.

maze ironheart
29-08-2006, 13:23
Yeah they do require line of sight but it destroys shoots throw terrain with out diffuculty.Also if you charge the cannon they have to auto flee which i find quite good.

TheWarSmith
29-08-2006, 14:02
Didn't know that about fear/terror having to have range on charge, but that's good.

What I'd do in the WLC case is see if the charge has range. If it's WAY off(you determine what this is), like 3"+, then don't make the flee, but if he gets within 1", it's clearly reasonable, and you flee(his charge is failed).

Sherlocko
29-08-2006, 14:09
Or you just don´t play against people who keeps bending rules ie charging when it will obviously(wich I can´t spell btw) fail.

Falkman
29-08-2006, 16:56
Or you just donīt play against people who keeps bending rules ie charging when it will obviously(wich I canīt spell btw) fail.

That might not be an option if you go to a tournament.