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UNKNOWN CTAN
27-08-2006, 18:04
Hey iv had my VC army in a cobourd for a long...... time and broke it out about 3 weeks ago, and fount not only my modles, but my tactics were outdated losing to high elves, then dark elves so i was wondering any one have any ideas for a 1000 pts VC army that has the edge in cc aswell as magic support, any help atall i will be grateful

Ty
Unknown Ctan

Karhedron
27-08-2006, 18:55
1000 points is quite tricky. Vampire Counts really don't work well below 2000 points as you really need a Vampire Count or Lord as your army general. In < 2000 point games you are trying to get by with Necromancers and Thralls. The problem with this is that the special VC rules for the general mean that hero level necromancers tend to die alarmingly easily.

The best advice I can give is to try and build your army up to 2000 points where you can take a Vampire Count as your general. Then you will have a general who is a decent fighter and also a competent wizard which is essential for undead.

If you want to stick with fighting smaller battles then make your general a Lvl 2 Necromancer, buy him the cloak of Mist and Shadows (magic item that makes him ethereal). Next buy a fairly large unit of Grave Guard with a fighty character (Blood Dragon Thrall or possibly Wight Lord) to lead it. The put your Wizard in the corner of the unit. Your Thrall/Wight Lord will issue challenges to make sure that your General cannot be targetted by magic weapons and the Cloak will protect him from non-magical attacks. This unit will be the core of your army so protect it!

On your flanks get a couple of units of at least 20 Skeletons with Hand weapons, Shields and Light armour. Use Invocation of Nehek to strengthen these units whenever you get the chance. After that you probably won't have too many points left but try to invest in a couple of units of 6 Dire Wolves. These fast cavalry should be timed to hit the flanks just as your infantry charge, hopefully robbing your enemy of his rank bonus.

Fighting elves is always difficult with undead as their archery will thin your ranks a lot before you even get into combat. Spells like Gaz of Nagash can be helpful for taking out untis of archers who generally have poor armour but most of your magic will probably be needed to keep your army on its feet. If you can afford another 2nd level necromancer for extra magic power then that will help but you will have to see how many points you have left.

ChainsawXIV
27-08-2006, 21:15
Contrary to the conventional wisdom, I've found that a melee character isn't necessarily a good investment in a VC army, especially at low points value. With the force magnifying power of VC spell casters you can get fantastic mileage out of them as long as you play it smart and protect them well. Consider an army that looks something like this:

Necromancer (General, Level 2 Necromancy)
- Book of Arkhan (Bound Spell of Dance Macabre)
- Talisman of Protection (6+ Ward Save)
Necromancer (Level 2 Necromancy)
- Staff of Damnation (Bound Spell of Hellish Vigor)
Skeletons (2x17, Standard Bearer, Spear)
Grave Guard (20, Crypt Keeper, Standard Bearer, Halberds)
Banshee

Early Game: Start your necromancers imbedded in the Skeleton units for protection, and begin the inevitable march forward. As you advance, have your necromancers pump Invocation into your skeleton blocks, which will make them outnumber almost anything else you're likely to see in that size game. Don't rush it - you want your skeletons to take the enemy charge with their spears, and then to be able to slam your grave guard in on the flanks of your enemy.

Middle Game: Once you get in position to charge or be charged, make sure you pull your Necromancers out of the units. You don't want them in melee, but once your units are engaged the fight shouldn't move around too much, so you can hide them behind the fight or some other cover for protection. This requires some timing, but once you get the hang of it it's no big deal. While your totally replaceable skeletons soak up the brunt of the enemy's attack, you use the Grave Guard with their superior strength and killing blow to rip up their flanks.

Late Game: With your necromancers out of units and on their own they are potentially vulnerable, especially to fast movers and flyers. This is where your banshee comes in. Because these fast independent troops are often small in number and out of reach of the general's leadership a banshee can often run them off with a good shot. Use your Banshee or freshly summoned zombie units to hold up anyone coming after your casters. You could also swap out the Banshee for a Wraith and try to use Terror to get this same job done.

On the whole, the key is to use your magic tactically. With two level two casters and two bound items you will out-cast practically everything you come up against. Necromancy has a couple of reasonably good offensive spells, but its true strength is in its ability to expand and enhance your own troops. Use Invocation to super size your skeleton blocks. Use Hellish Vigor to help compensate for your troops mediocre combat abilities. Perhaps most importantly, use Dance Macabre to pull off charges your enemy doesnít see coming. The rest is just gravy.

Of course, there are lots of ways to set up your army, and this is just one, but itís what Iíd recommend based on what youíre asking about.

UNKNOWN CTAN
28-08-2006, 12:42
Well thank you both i have made a list that uses Grave guard and skeles as the base of my army this is the link ot my new army list have a look
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=903591#post903591

EvC
28-08-2006, 13:21
Fighting elves is always difficult with undead as their archery will thin your ranks a lot before you even get into combat.

Really? Not in my experience. The simple fact is that archery is so under-powered that High Elves rarely take many archers, and Dark Elves have enough troubles to make up for it. Never played Wood Elves, but I've had more missile problems with Skaven and Lizardmen, who have so many viable missile troop choices that are employed a lot more than archers...

English 2000
31-08-2006, 01:13
1000 points is quite tricky. Vampire Counts really don't work well below 2000 points as you really need a Vampire Count or Lord as your army general.

I will have to disagree 100% with that statement. I have NEVER, EVER, EVER even come close to losing a 1000 point game with my VC. NEVER!

Yet when playing the same group of guys at 2000 points the games were WAY more challenging to win.

Generally the core of my army was 2 20 man skelly units and 2 level 2 necros.
Everything else got changed around...sometimes took 9 black knights with banner of the barrows, and either a bd thrall with the cursed book or a wight lord depending on my mood.

Other times I'd take the fighty character on foot and play around with wolves, spirits hosts, a banshee, zombies, bats, ghouls.

But the core of the army was the 2 necros summoning more skellies and zombies non-stop and generally not advancing far so buy me more time.

I personally think that at 1000 points VC are one of the MOST powerful armies in the warhammer game.

So there you have it, 2 completely contrasting points of view from me and Karhedron. Feeling confused yet?

vampires are cool!
31-08-2006, 23:59
both are correct
but it is a prefrence between magic and CC