PDA

View Full Version : Crom too cheap?



shadow hunter
28-08-2006, 10:01
Crom rules from GW site. http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/special-characters/8/

Is it me - or is Crom rediculously cheap @ 230pts? I mean, I have looked at all the special characters and they are all a lot higher in points.

I ask - since me and my friends don't mind using special characters (find it quite fun) however, my friend has crom - and I'm dreading him using the figure.

I play Skaven - and there's no-one capable of taking him on (I know Skaven shouldn't be able to) even Queek at 300pts is no -where near a match - and he's 70pts more. The deathmaster might have a chance - but he is 515pts !!!!

I like the rules for crom (especially nullifying all magic weapons) however - i think he should cost more.

gortexgunnerson
28-08-2006, 11:35
Yer hes good, but hes not that good as he will only ever be str 5 and he has no ward save. He has some funky rules such as nulifying magic attacks but I would say he is not over powered. He is cheap when you consider the cost of Choas Lord but limits your army section something chronic unless you like loats of undivided troops.

So basically you kill him in exactly the same way you kill the rest of undivided mortals, you shoot them to pieces. He is a lot of points for something so poorly armoured (For a fighter lord) so just hammer his unit with missile fire. You have options of Jezzails, ratling guns, warp fire throwers and warplighting cannons. One good hit and they pay for them selves and wipe his unit out.

He is also on foot which means he isnt going to albe to pick his battles so weaken his unit with magic and missiles and send in something big and mean like rat orges or something that isnt going anywhere like a rat swarm. Though this may change in 7th.

Relistically with the cost of skaven you could avoid him for 3 turns and then feed his unit 3 units of slaves/clanrats. So you take his 230 point character and 300 point warrior unit out for the cost 300 points. You can use your slaves to bait and just keep fleeing from his charge. At 8" charge he's unlikely to catch your 2D6 + 1 flee move.

March block his unit with night runners and hes down to 4" a turn and hs no shooting or skirmishers with which to drive your skirmishers off.

You have Skaven one of the powerhouses of Warhammer having some of the most abusive rules combined with a varied troop choice and the ability to tailor an army to virtually any aim. This combined with cheap cost of troops should mean that choas mortals should be a walk in the park.

TheWarSmith
28-08-2006, 13:25
Funny that it doesn't place restrictions on chariots.

I'd say putting him in a chariot is your best bet. I'm not a huge fan of foot slogging chaos lords.

He's cheap, but in combat he's really as good as a basic chaos lord w/ no magic weapons until he hits a challenge.

His HUGE drawback is that he has to accept challenges. Simply challenge him w/ a crappy unit champion(you can issue w/ a champion too right?), watch your champ die, but watch crom deal almost no CR. Won't work for subsequent turns, but it's better than having crom deal 4 wounds and removing most of the first rank and denying attacks back.

As for his army selection modifications, those really aren't a huge deal. It limits him more than it helps him IMO. It would have been better if they allowed multiple chosen, but they just ended up in special/rare, similar to Archaon's horde.

Marauder horsemen re rolling their rally checks is nice though, I have to admit.

In the end, he's a pretty evenly balanced character. Just never challenge him w/ a T3 character.

To the mention of finding a skaven character to beat him, that's the point. Crom's specialty is character/challenge killing. He has 0 magic items, just special rules. NEVER challenge him with your characters. I'd go so far to say that if you're going to charge him w/ a regiment, remove your character if possible so he can't deny his ld.

Lordsaradain
28-08-2006, 13:34
Well, considering that a normal chaos lord without any equipment besides chaos armoura nd hand weapon is 215pts, I think Crom is WAY too Cheap!

a mere 15 points for all his nice abilities, how balanced is that!?!

DeathMasterSnikch
28-08-2006, 13:35
Yeh, just use Ikit if you plan on using special characters. Fry his ass.
DMS could take him easily, Queek will have trouble, Crom looks like he's made to kill him. Skrolk in a unit of slaves may possibly manage it.

Could always fall back on the in book characters...or a warpfire thrower...

Avian
28-08-2006, 13:44
I'd say putting him in a chariot is your best bet. I'm not a huge fan of foot slogging chaos lords.
Crom has no option to ride a chariot.


BTW: He is underpriced

Latro
28-08-2006, 13:56
I find him a lot better priced and balanced than most (if not all) of the other insane special characters out there. I wouldn't even mind playing against him in a battle I wasn't expecting any special characters.

... I'd say he's just right.

Atrahasis
28-08-2006, 14:11
Simply challenge him w/ a crappy unit champion(you can issue w/ a champion too right?), watch your champ die, but watch crom deal almost no CR. He will deal exactly the same CR against a unit champion as he will against the unit.

metro_gnome
28-08-2006, 14:15
but your unit strength wont go down tho...

TheWarSmith
28-08-2006, 14:19
actually, he won't deal the same CR as he can only actually deal one wound, and i believe 1 more for overkill. Doesn't overkill cap at double base wounds?

Even if he CAN deal the same CR, this way you can get the attacks back and stand a chance of outnumbering, etc

Avian
28-08-2006, 14:22
actually, he won't deal the same CR as he can only actually deal one wound, and i believe 1 more for overkill. Doesn't overkill cap at double base wounds?
It's up to +5 for overkill. Maybe you should read the rulebook.

T10
28-08-2006, 14:26
Well, considering that a normal chaos lord without any equipment besides chaos armoura nd hand weapon is 215pts, I think Crom is WAY too Cheap!

a mere 15 points for all his nice abilities, how balanced is that!?!

His abilities are not all nice. There are a couple of draw-backs, minor though they be.

That Crom must always challenge is to a great degree offset by the fact that he can reliably pound any non-etheral character in close combat. It is a restriction, however.

I don't think his ability to grant the Mark of Chaos Undivided to ALL his Marauder Units for FREE to be at all offset by changing Marked units to Special or Rare. The Mark upgrade should have been assigned a cost, and the army selection restriction should have been countered with other army selection options.

All in all, it seems that Crom pays a low cost for his combat ability and pays nothing at all for his army-enhancement ability.

On the other hand, he doesn't max out on his "magic" allowance, meaning that aside from his points cost he's actually a quite moderate character.

I like him and would not object to see him fielded against me.

-T10

TheWarSmith
28-08-2006, 14:27
guess we always played with a house rule.

shadow hunter
28-08-2006, 15:40
I have no problem with the guy - accept I thought he was very cheap for his abilities.

I know I could take him down via shooting/magic or through CR maybe - but I am a Skaven after Queek's heart (a rare thing) and like a good fight.

I mean - our last game saw me charge a Chieftain with a great weapon into Archaon and kill him (note - he was on his last wound following 4 turn slugging it out with a Vermin Lord :p ) but you get the idea.

Ah well, looks like I'll have to fry his butt, or use those swarms while I still can.

And S5 is fine against Skaven. It wounds on a 2+ for normal troops and 3+ on characters. And also takes out most of the armour save. However trying to wound a T5 character with S3 and then have him fail his 2+ armour save is hard.

Oh and the army list thing doesn't matter for my friend as he just has undivided anyway.

He he he - Ikit claw is a good idea though.

Avian
28-08-2006, 15:49
I don't think his ability to grant the Mark of Chaos Undivided to ALL his Marauder Units for FREE to be at all offset by changing Marked units to Special or Rare. The Mark upgrade should have been assigned a cost, and the army selection restriction should have been countered with other army selection options.

All in all, it seems that Crom pays a low cost for his combat ability and pays nothing at all for his army-enhancement ability.
Yep. Borgut is similar in this in that he effectively pays for a Big 'Uns upgrade for free.

Let's face it, if you are bothered that Marked units become Special / Rare, then you are not going to be taking Crom anyway, so it's not as if it's a disadvantage.

To put it in other words: Making stuff you want better while making stuff you don't want worse is not exactly an even trade. :rolleyes:

Latro
28-08-2006, 16:15
To put it in other words: Making stuff you want better while making stuff you don't want worse is not exactly an even trade. :rolleyes:

You're right, I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would want to add several harder hitting Chaos units to the masses of Marauders ... :D

DirtJumper
28-08-2006, 20:18
He is one of the most balanced characters out there. Just never accept a challange against him, because using sword and axe he will almost always kill a unit champ, plus get the full +5 CR bonus for overkill, so 6 in total. So what if he gives Merauders MoCU, are the really that scary with it?

vampires are cool!
28-08-2006, 23:12
HELL YEAH! he is way to cheap, costs about 5 pts more than a regular lord or something.
i love the model and the rules but i must admit they should up the points

samw
29-08-2006, 01:12
Perhaps the issue is not that Crom is too cheap, but that chaos lords are too expensive...

Anyway, the guy's not particularly tough, and is essentially built for the marauder horde type of list. There's something noble about him not having any magic items, instead relying on intrinsic ability.

T10
29-08-2006, 07:17
So what if he gives Merauders MoCU, are the really that scary with it?

Marauders with Mark of Chaos Undivided aren't scary.

They do become a lot more reliable though, something that can prove a bit problematic when facing multiple units of them.

-T10

Bubble Ghost
29-08-2006, 11:25
The points value looks a bit contentious. But he's also very limited. For a Chaos Lord he's unspectacular in combat with rank and file, especially heavy cavalry. He's also fairly immobile, and easily led around by the nose once fighting starts. All that plus he's a special character, so everyone knows he's coming. So basically, while he's all-powerful within his little sphere, he has a pretty narrow spectrum of usefulness and that makes him very predictable - a handicap which, while not tangibly represented by a rule you can check against his bonuses, is nonetheless a weakness.

Bottom line is, the theory was that you get a points break in exchange for sticking to Queensberry Rules in a MMA tournament.

The theory, anyway. Costing special characters isn't an exact science, especially to deadlines, and he could perhaps do with being 10 or 15 points more expensive. But on the whole I think he turned out pretty reasonable considering how wacky he is. I was pleased with him anyway. (I'm not a Chaos player, by the way...)

DeathMasterSnikch
29-08-2006, 11:41
Indees, unless he gets into situations that he is good at he's just a chaos lord without the extras.

ZomboCom
29-08-2006, 17:17
Yes, he's very cheap, but most special characters are broken one way or another. Just play games without them.