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beerdrinker
28-08-2006, 17:45
I was looking on forgeworld today and saw the hierodule model. Is seems to be about the same scale as a carnifex so I was wondering what kind of differences does it have to the carnifex? Would it even be worth the money or could you make a carnifex that is really simaler or better?

I dont have the Imperial Armour books or access to them so obviosly I would have to buy it to get the rules so I would have to know if it would even be worth it.

Charax
28-08-2006, 17:54
the Hierodule is a Biotitan. That's the kind of differences it has. It could bend almost any carnifex over and have its way with it.

beerdrinker
28-08-2006, 17:57
So am I off in scale then?

Makaber
28-08-2006, 17:58
Well, it's not the kind of model you buy because the rules are good. It's very expensive, wonderfully large, looks pretty damn nice, and comes with unofficial rules for friendly game. I'd hazard a guess and assume it's a bit over-priced in the points department.

Yarick Zan
28-08-2006, 18:03
its like fielding a warhound titan really. considering its a biotitan (and way bigger than a 'fex) i think your opponent would have to scramble to win. anyways id go for somthing smaller that isnt considerd its own detachment.

t-tauri
28-08-2006, 18:06
It's about three or four Carnifexes rolled into one. Like a Baneblade is a number of Leman Russes rolled together. It's a 'nid superheavy.

DrDoom
28-08-2006, 18:07
I fought a hierodule a little over a month ago. Its damned scary. It has more wounds than the Carnifex and the mass points make to tough to hurt. Its over priced in the points dept, but its a huge model and frightening. I would get one if you're looking to play some larger friendly games.

Molly took four turns of shooting from a Warhound, a Land Raider, and a Defiler before she died.

Brimstone
28-08-2006, 18:08
The Heirodule is not a bio titan that's a Heirophant I own both.

Heirodules are about 3X the size of a carnifex, the Scythed version is very nice but not that great as it spends all it's time trying to get into combat (although it's very nasty once it gets there) the Barbed is v.nasty with a set of TL bio-cannons and the one I would wholeheartly recomend.

It's hard to kill but like most FW models it's points costs do reflect this so it's not that overbalanced but it will make your oponents think very hard.

Charax
28-08-2006, 18:12
when did the Hierodule stop having mass points? that kinda sucks

Brimstone
28-08-2006, 18:21
when did the Hierodule stop having mass points? that kinda sucks

Heirodules still have mass points.

This should give you some idea of the size comparison.

http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/65914771.jpg

beerdrinker
28-08-2006, 19:26
that pick really helps thanks brimstone. nice looking models.
thanks for all the info.

voidstalker
28-08-2006, 19:26
I would stick with the carnifex i am not a fan of the Hierodule model but i love the trygon model have u thought anbout one of them?

stormtrooper154
28-08-2006, 19:29
Im going to be getting some of the FW beasts when I redo my Tyranids in a month or so.

Vosk
28-08-2006, 23:10
Im going to be getting some of the FW beasts when I redo my Tyranids in a month or so.

Yes, its enough to make we want to do another Tyranid army (I have done one for each stage of development as a hobbyist... strange that I identify with a race of monsters that exist only to make sure you end up in a Reclamation Pool offering as little resistance as possible... but there you go :p).

To the OP, you should not take a Hierodule over a Carnifex for the simple reason that there will come a day when some ***** screams and whinges until you agree not to field it, either because he's scared or because it's not "in the Codex". By all means, grab a Hierodule as well as your Carnifi, just not instead of.

Raelcun
29-08-2006, 00:32
Even though Brimstone says the Barbed Hierodule does better than the scythed if I were to spend the money on a forge world model version of either I'd probably go for scythed since I'd only be using it with friends and it looks so much cooler.

Jonathan =I=
29-08-2006, 07:04
It's very expensive, wonderfully large, looks pretty damn nice, and comes with unofficial rules for friendly game.I seem to mention this lot on this forum but Imperial armour rules are completely official. Just because some tournaments don’t allow them doesn’t mean that they become unofficial and “require opponents consent” to use.

Hellebore
29-08-2006, 07:12
I seem to mention this lot on this forum but Imperial armour rules are completely official. Just because some tournaments don’t allow them doesn’t mean that they become unofficial and “require opponents consent” to use.

I'm pretty sure at the beginning of the big IA books Warwick Kinrade says they aren't 'codex' official, but so long as you have fun there shouldn't be a problem.

Hellebore

athamas
29-08-2006, 08:16
i think it then goes on to say 'for those that want an official yes/no the answer is yes'

as the wether they are officaial or not..

Scythe
29-08-2006, 08:52
Hierodules are like most forgeworld models; you buy them because they look amazing, not because of their amazing rules. That said, to give you an idea of what they are capable of, they have about the suvivability of 2-3 carnifexes, but remember that they have the cost of 2-3 carnifexes as well. Offesnive wise, the scythed version is limited to a very close range, and the barbed one is nice ot range, but is rather weak up close. Definitely not on par with 2-3 carnifexes in either case, but again, you buy it because it looks good, not because it gives you an amazing advantage. (side note: a single hierodule only costs you a single heavy support slot, so there's an advantage).

Chem-Dog
29-08-2006, 10:06
The Heirodule is not a bio titan that's a Heirophant I own both.

They were both designated as Bio Titans when they first came out in epic.


I seem to mention this lot on this forum but Imperial armour rules are completely official. Just because some tournaments don’t allow them doesn’t mean that they become unofficial and “require opponents consent” to use.

If it's not in the Codex you shouldn't expect anyone to be happy about you bringing it to the table, IA stuff messes around with rules (see flyers, superheavies and Tyranid big monsters) and changes the ballance of things, a mechanised Imperial Guard army gets a lot nastier when it's chimeras all have twin heavy bolters on the turret, I can't imagine anyone being too happy when you produce three fighters to strafe your opponant every turn while he has no AA support and anyone facing a Superheavy tank has a real struggle on their hands beyond anything you'd expect from a codex only list.

As I may have indicated above, I'd go for a Carnidfex any day, nobody can complain about you including one. Don't get me wrong, I own quite a few FW vehicles and have used most of them in battles, but my regular opponant knew they were coming, you've never seen a Marine army try to destroy a Leman Russ (Executioner) so fast.

Brimstone
29-08-2006, 10:11
They were both designated as Bio Titans when they first came out in epic.

That was a long time ago and in a book which is way OOP, Forgeworld took the names and reused them. The Heirodule is a gigantic(super heavy) creature now not a Titan.
The SG Epic Tyranid list also reflects this.

Chaos and Evil
29-08-2006, 10:23
Aye, originally (Ten years ago), Epic Hierodules were larger than the Hierophant.

When ForgeWorld came to update the Bio-Titans, the Hierophant was kept about the same size, but the Hierodule was reduced to just a super-heavy carnifex, rather than a full Bio-Titan.


As to the official/unofficial debate, ForgeWorld rules are for the most part fully official (There are some appendix exceptions like advanced aircraft rules), but conversely most Tournaments don't allow them because most tournament players don't understand the rules.

As far as gameplay goes, most ForgeWorld models are slightly overpriced for what they give, since they normally use the VDR / CDR list as their base, which overprices everything. So basically, ForgeWorld rules are balanced for any game.


I can't imagine anyone being too happy when you produce three fighters to strafe your opponant every turn while he has no AA support

That's akin to building an Eldar Starcannon horror, or an IG armoured company. Any list can be exploited, but as long as you're sensible when putting your army together any reasonable opponent won't have cause to object.

Most opponents relish the oppertunity to play against ForgeWorld pieces!

pelmen78
11-10-2007, 17:49
Can anyone give the the base size for a hierodule and a hierophant? I've made a Barbed Hierodule conversion using two Carnifex bodies, and I want to get teh base size right for my Apoc games. So far I've got two Carni bases side by side, and added two ripper bases where the two big bases meet. The base is roughly 5 inches lonh from head to tail, and 4.5 inches wide from ripper base to ripper base.

Oh, and GC conversation *bump*.

How they looking now compared to IA rules? No mass points means gotta grab cover, but Stomping in CC + increased shooty does kick butt, imho.

Chaos and Evil
11-10-2007, 20:36
I would have thought opening a new thread would have been better than resurrecting a 14 month old topic, but hey. :)

jfrazell
11-10-2007, 21:07
They were both designated as Bio Titans when they first came out in epic.



If it's not in the Codex you shouldn't expect anyone to be happy about you bringing it to the table, IA stuff messes around with rules (see flyers, superheavies and Tyranid big monsters) and changes the ballance of things, a mechanised Imperial Guard army gets a lot nastier when it's chimeras all have twin heavy bolters on the turret, I can't imagine anyone being too happy when you produce three fighters to strafe your opponant every turn while he has no AA support and anyone facing a Superheavy tank has a real struggle on their hands beyond anything you'd expect from a codex only list.

As I may have indicated above, I'd go for a Carnidfex any day, nobody can complain about you including one. Don't get me wrong, I own quite a few FW vehicles and have used most of them in battles, but my regular opponant knew they were coming, you've never seen a Marine army try to destroy a Leman Russ (Executioner) so fast.


I'm assuming you're not a big fan of apocalypse then, as that is what Ap. is all about.

Scythe
12-10-2007, 08:06
Can anyone give the the base size for a hierodule and a hierophant? I've made a Barbed Hierodule conversion using two Carnifex bodies, and I want to get teh base size right for my Apoc games. So far I've got two Carni bases side by side, and added two ripper bases where the two big bases meet. The base is roughly 5 inches lonh from head to tail, and 4.5 inches wide from ripper base to ripper base.

Oh, and GC conversation *bump*.

How they looking now compared to IA rules? No mass points means gotta grab cover, but Stomping in CC + increased shooty does kick butt, imho.

The Hierophant doesn't come with a base, so it is quite hard to say. I have put mine on a 12" by 12" square base as part of a diorama tough (and for stability; the legs of a Hierophant are notoriously thin). It is about the size you need to get all the legs on it.

No idea how large the Hierodules base is tough; tough judging from images, it isn't that much larger as a standard carnifex 60mm base. Probably 80mm or 100mm round bases would do the trick.

Not that it matters that much tough; unless you go into extremes, the base size doesn't has that much influence.

Phenski
12-10-2007, 10:26
Its been weeks since i flicked through the Appoc book, but im 99.9999% sure the Barbed Hierodule is in there as an entry.... cant remember bout the Scythed version though....

Ive debated long and hard about getting a Hierophant or a Barbed 'dule.... think ill get BOTH!!!!!

2008 is the year of the Nid!

giddyup!!!!

IJW
12-10-2007, 10:28
Barbed, yes. Scythed, no.

Phenski
12-10-2007, 10:33
IJW, do u think its better than the IA 'dules?? is she sprouting Barbed Stranglers or some other magnificent bio-weapon???

Cheerski!

Scythe
12-10-2007, 10:57
Difficult to say, really. The loss of mass points and 2+ save is quite a blow. The Hierophant compensates the loss of mass points by having 5 extra wounds and T9, but the Hierodule doesn't has those bonusses.

The bio-weapons are rather impressive tough. Firing a dozen S10 marine penetrating shots is pretty damn good. However, the Hierodule comes at a higher price as its IA brother as well.

Phenski
12-10-2007, 11:05
Hmmm. cheers for that scythe.

could be fun for diverting some attention (while causing pain!) til the 'stealers get there!!!

Chaos and Evil
12-10-2007, 11:09
I'm assuming you're not a big fan of apocalypse then, as that is what Ap. is all about.

The post you're replying to is more than a year old... Apocalypse wasn't even a tenuous rumour back then.

Also, he's quite plainly speaking about normal sized battles, not mega battles.