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PaRaSiTe_X92
28-08-2006, 22:30
I've just started looking into Eldar fluff; weapons, evolution, The Fall, Slaanesh etc. All I can say is :confused: Man it's confusing!

Anyway, to my question. What exactly are Chaos Gods? Slaanesh was made by loads of Eldar souls, which sorta merged to create Slaanesh (still confused about that bit). But what form does a Chaos God take? Do they have any physical form at all, or are they just...there? Or are they just something that affects the brain, so in some ways they aren't even there, just the souls acting strangely.

I'm really confused. Like normal. Can anyone help?

Thanks

Some guy (UK)
28-08-2006, 23:16
I believe that for the most part they are all in the mind, from day 1 offering temptations of power and glory, and when/ if you 'accept' them, they become part of you, and you of them, and so that particular god grows stronger. So when that particular servant fights, they are taking a small part of that god into battle, the God controling them partially, giving the servant it's objective, a subconcious message if you will.
The god that grows stronger would be some humoungous being in the Warp.

Thats how I've always seen it any how.

Later, Some Guy

Nabeshin1106
28-08-2006, 23:29
I don't remember exactly where I read it, but this is how I understand it.

Certain Thoughts, ideas, and feelings collect in the warp. Most don't do anyrhing, but sometimes enough will collect and become something. These are Daemons. Rarely, these Ideas will keep collecting, and the thing will grow, and grow, and grow, until they become a God. Slaanesh was born because the Eldar started doing everything in excess, and doing everything for selfish reasons. These ideas/thoughts/feelings/whatever kept collecting, and eventualy, Slaanesh is what came out of it. Each God is a manifestation of something.

I believe because the ideas become a manifestation, they do have a material being, just like daemons do. Since daemons are created the same way as the gods, just at a smaller scale, the Gods must have a form, too.

There are stories of the 4 bigguns getting together to plan, with Tzeentch acting as the middle man to keep them from killing each other.

Also, there's the battle between Kaela Mensha Khaine and Slaanesh after the fall, with Khorne stepping in to fight Slaanesh and what not. How can fights and meetings happen without physical bodies?

malika
28-08-2006, 23:40
Might be a little off topic, but at the same time it isnt since we are dealing with the nature of the Chaos Gods here. They can be both "good" and "evil" (if we can even speak of such terms), an example of this can be seen here (http://wiki.anargo-sector.net/index.php?title=Balek_Valdarian) with a characted which was created for the Anargo Sector Project (http://anargo-sector.net/phpBB2/index.php). The Chaos Gods represent both opposites. For example Khorne is the God of War, anger, hatred, rage etc. But he is also the God of honour, bravery, etc.

They basicly feed upon emotions.

heretics bane
28-08-2006, 23:56
lets say i killed some one, the blood shed would feed khorne

if i sneezed i would strenghten nurgle

if i made a new technological device i would feed teeen guy


dont know about slanneesh

thats how i seen/read it out to be

Norminator
29-08-2006, 00:01
dont know about slanneesh

Hmm... buying p0rn?

heretics bane
29-08-2006, 00:06
good one,whats he do again???

Khaine's Messenger
29-08-2006, 00:28
What exactly are Chaos Gods?

They can be thought of as confluences of and disturbances in the fabric of reality as expressed through trans-material space (realms far more "abstract" than our own, both more real than real and less real than real), usually associated with the vestiges or extremes of consciousness on which they appear to feed and propagate with conscious intent. Chaos Gods are entities which consume souls and force patterns on the sublime nature of reality in a rippling pattern that allows them to reave more souls, and many of them are in open competition. They are not fed by worship or emotions directly, much less any sort of physical phenomena (eg, Nurgle is not so much tied to entropy or decay as he is to the mental state of despair), but every act of "worship" can aspect oneself to a Chaos power so that, upon the severing of your soul from your mortal frame (usually death), the soul-morsel is more easily claimed (and sometimes it may be claimed even before that).

Their "presence" is so massive and the mechanisms that empower them so lumbering that they seem woven into the very fabric of the universe, inseperable from it. Their wars are proxy conflicts, their struggles more a vast metaplot than many people are willing to conceive, clouded in metaphors far less concrete than the fact of their existance.

Of course, to each person the Chaos Gods may well be entirely different, and operate on many different functional levels, as the many and varied (and background-based) options in this thread demonstrate.

Tigerguy
29-08-2006, 06:40
The gods (not just chaos gods) are the manifestation of a collective conscienceness. The more psychic the race, the more they can affect this. Thus why the eldar could create a god and why they are the most desirable to feast upon (both slaanesh and the C'tan want their souls). Slaanesh was born of the eldar's collective selfish desire. In the same way, the eldar are creating another god, Ynead, the god of death,from the collective souls within the Infinity Circuit.

Just my .02

PaRaSiTe_X92
29-08-2006, 10:29
Right, I get it. Sorta anyway. Enough to understand the basics :)

Just it's hard for the human brain to imagine anything lie that, so I'll just stick to a god basically being just psychic energy, caused by souls, thoughts, emotions of the same general meaning in one place joining together to create a god.

Thoughts of a certain general meaning join to create a daemon, getting more powerful the more of it there is, until creation of a god. Then the more of that meaning (sacrifices/thoughts etc) that are created and join the god, the stronger he gets, and his thoughs (of pleasure/war etc) go to it's worshippers (ie Bezerkers) and the power becomes part of the worshipper (ie making Bezerkers fight lots :)).

That kinda it?

Mojaco
29-08-2006, 12:08
It's like asking what is the internet. It is something (hell, you're using it), but at the same time it's nothing. There's no address where internet lives, there's no physical manifestation. And at the same time, there is. Images, gaming, internet-broadcasting. So while on one hand it's simply the incomprehensible sum of a bazillion parts, to us as users it's something very direct and touchable. Right now a post of someone from holland, the next moment a download completed or a tv program you missed.

Just like the chaos god and it's physical manifastations, it's daemons. With the one exeption that Chaos is selfaware and internet (as far as we know. [insert scary voice]) is not.

This is a better analogy then I thought :)

Too many complex words! Count the spelling mistakes! :(

PaRaSiTe_X92
29-08-2006, 13:18
You've made me scared of the internet now...aaarrrggghhh!!!!!!!!!

And according to MS Word, you made 3 spelling mistakes; not bad :)

drakhar
29-08-2006, 18:21
The gods (not just chaos gods) are the manifestation of a collective conscienceness. The more psychic the race, the more they can affect this. Thus why the eldar could create a god and why they are the most desirable to feast upon (both slaanesh and the C'tan want their souls). Slaanesh was born of the eldar's collective selfish desire. In the same way, the eldar are creating another god, Ynead, the god of death,from the collective souls within the Infinity Circuit.

Just my .02

In the same way, the eldar are creating another god, Ynead, the god of death,from the collective souls within the Infinity Circuit.
sorry to burst your bubble Tigerguy, but i believe the god of death has already been created in the form of the necron star god 'death bringer' which was responsible for implanting the thought of death in all creatures in the universe especially in the Eldar, because when Khaine defeated him he exploded and shards of his living metal skin was imbeded in khaines flesh thus from that point on the Eldar feared the grave.

PaRaSiTe_X92
29-08-2006, 18:24
What is the Infinity Circuit?

BrainFireBob
29-08-2006, 19:41
Two things:

One, Nightbringer existed already, independent of the warp. He "implanted" memories of himself, because he enjoyed eating sentient things afraid of him- I guess it's kind of like ketchup.

Two, Warp Gods- as opposed to the so-called Star Gods- can be understood using weather as a medium.

The difference between a tropical storm with winds, etc. and a hurricane? The Hurricane has become a self-perpetuating vortex. So with the Warp Gods- strong emotions in psychic races provide energy "pulses", which attract each other by type, eventually it becomes self-perpetuating and isn't dependent on new pulses to exist, although it will of course encourage their formation to increase its own power.

The Chaos Gods are the most powerful form of this. Daemons are lesser forms- somewhat like sub-vortices inside the larger God, I believe.

The Infinity Circuit is a kind of artificial dimension created and maintained by the Eldar in THIS dimension. They put their soul-stones in it, and souls then live in the Infinity Circuit instead of passing into the warp, where Slaanesh gets a snack.

Now, Eldar are psychic, and since the Infinity Circuits of Exodite Worlds and Craftworlds are linked into a greater circuit and only populated with souls on some version of the Eldar Path, which is a creed of self-denial, they are attempting to create a new Eldar god by a) Forcing the energy to be collected in an artificial vortex, and b) making said vortex be a vortex of self-control and self-restraint, the anti-thesis of Slaanesh (meaning Ynnead won't be vulnerable to Slaanesh).

Commander Ozae
29-08-2006, 20:31
Ynnead is the basically the sum and total of all eldar souls who have died since the Fall except the DE. The Emperor is also the equivalent of a warp god with his presence in the Warp being the Star Child and is the god of hope and humanity. The Chaos Gods are just the manifestation of the evil/bad forces of conscious races: war/violence, intrigue/politics, disease/decay, and hedonism/decadance. Also, each one of the gods represents one of the four elements: Khorne is fire because it destroys, Tzeentch is air because it twists and turns, Nurgle is earth because it consumes the dead, and Slaanesh is water because it tempts.

Zzarchov
30-08-2006, 03:31
Short laymans answer:

Very Powerful Extra-Dimensional Aliens who are using everything in their power to manipulate our dimension to their liking.

wRa1tH
30-08-2006, 08:54
what i remember reading somewhere is that loooooooooong time ago... while the eldars weren't even around... and when the necrons start to emerge...

the Old Ones where populating worlds and planets... until they came upon the C'tans... nothing in their arsenal could defeat them... and so the Old Ones decided to create beings that can utilise the warp, and to use these beings to defeat the c'tan, hence the eldars and humans... and at that time the warp is not filled with daemons... no... far from it... it was like an ocean of energy...

but as the creatures that the Old Ones create start to have thoughts that resonate into the warp, these thoughts and feelings start to take shape...

and hence the creation of the 3 chaos gods... khorne, nurgle and tzeentch...

slaanesh came about pretty much as you guys said... the eldars got too kinky... and the eldars being the most psyk-sensitive beings... their thoughts resonate more and leave more imprints in the warp... and when you have a whole civilisation with hedonistic lifestyle... you get a new god...

PaRaSiTe_X92
30-08-2006, 09:42
What exactly were the Old Ones? Wikipedia doesn't have that much info :(

But so far this his turning into a confusing but interesting topic IMO :D

Commander Ozae
30-08-2006, 15:39
The Old Ones were the first race to cross the Sea of Stars by creating the Warp and manipulating its power. They have been all but wiped out during the War in Heaven with the C'tan but rumors persist of some who survived. For the best source of info look in the Necron Codex for the History of the Necrontyr and it'll give you most of the info we have.

PaRaSiTe_X92
30-08-2006, 17:05
Ok thanks, I thought they were something like that.

Man this fluff is confusing :S

BrainFireBob
30-08-2006, 18:25
There's an excellent timelie thread on Warseer done by, I think, khaine's Messenger- try and find it. It explains the Old Ones in their entirety.

Khaine's Messenger
30-08-2006, 18:36
There's an excellent timelie thread on Warseer done by, I think, khaine's Messenger- try and find it. It explains the Old Ones in their entirety.

You mean MvS's timeline? Link: here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10799)

Philip S
30-08-2006, 18:50
Anyway, to my question. What exactly are Chaos Gods?
I would say that at the base and most fundamental level the Chaos Ghods are warp energy that has been imprinted with patterns from sentient species, and these patterns have retained their shape and linked together to form a vast mind. The imprints are not souls, they are the imprint of a mind, like a footprint left by a human on a sandy beach is not their foot or any part them.

Warp energy is self sustaining so they will continue forever (if all sentient life died the Chaos Ghods would endure), and each year as more people are born and have emotions which imprints yet move of the warp energy which links up to a ghods to add to itís consciousness. Each Ghod attracts to it the imprints that favour it and can readily integrate, though same are only on the edges or fleeting and human emotions change (the imprint only locks on death).

The imprints are purely from the emotions of sentient beings, the intelligence is the ghodís own.

In essence each emotional mind imprint is like a brain neuron in a human to a Chaos Ghod, eventually when there where enough imprints the mind fired up and started thinking.

This is only my personal view ;)

Philip

Commander Ozae
30-08-2006, 19:15
That's pretty much correct except that it has been determined (a few weeks ago) that the Chaos gods (not ghods i believe :) ) require an influx of emotions to sustain themselves. They could survive but when their particular emotions are stronger they become more powerful and so on. Therefore, although the Chaos Gods might survive without life they would be very weak or possibly powerless.