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View Full Version : Do all army configurations have a sporting chance?



Bronka
29-08-2006, 23:22
Hello!

I've never played WFB before, so forgive my ignorance. I was wondering if you feel that the rules give all possible army configurations at least some chance of winning?

For example, could a Night Goblin horde consisting entirely of archers theoretically beat any army it comes up against? Or are there certain armies against which it would be impossible to win? I don't mean unlikely, I mean literally impossible - if it's unlikely then there's still a chance. :D

Just wondering how flexible/sporting the game is with regard to unit selection.

TheWarSmith
29-08-2006, 23:29
No, not all army lists can win. Army formation is a very heavy tactic in playing the game, and plays a more important and versatile role than in 40k(if you play this).

Most armies have a few different styles they can use, some more tactically sound than others.

In a game of luck, nothing is impossible, but a night goblin archer list would have HORRIBLE problems against most lists, MUCH larger problems than most lists would have against most armies.

Kordos
30-08-2006, 00:01
Yes and no, I’ve found fantasy to be a very tactical game, unlike 40k where more often than not if you’re rolling poorly then you will lose the game. Fantasy seems to be more forgiving; I’ve pulled off victories when the dice gods were in my opponents favour just by maximising the strengths of my army.

The game is pretty flexible regarding unit selection, although in some army books there maybe some less useful units. Generally armies of all the same unit (Your night gobbo archer horde) can struggle to achieve victory but in the sheer fact that it is a horde army can cause other armies some grief.

DeathMasterSnikch
30-08-2006, 04:51
I suppose there IS a chance. Hellishly low but there. Enough archers could panic small armies with lucky dice rolls. (constant 6s will do that :) Hit, YES, Wound, YES, panic test, 12, YES.)

ebolatheripe
30-08-2006, 08:25
The way the rules are set up, most crazy armies have some slight chance to win against any body if played well. That being said it would be a very slight chance against most and a overwhelming victory if you were playing an army that just happened to not be able to handle whatever theme you chose for your army. That army would most likely have to be an extremely unbalanced army as well.

Tarquinn
30-08-2006, 09:00
Got a related question: Is a pure Night Goblin army a viable army choice?

deadkez
30-08-2006, 10:14
Got a related question: Is a pure Night Goblin army a viable army choice?

Depends on what you mean by 'pure'.. say 10 units of night goblins with just night goblin characters (and perhaps some squigs) wouldnt do a lot...some will be panicked (usually by their own fanatics), some will flee from combat, the others will be too unwieldy to get into support roles...

the more flexible you are with the word 'pure' the more chance you give yourself..

level 1 of flexibility: Trolls, giant, spider riders

level 2 of flexibility: spear chukkas, chariots, wolf riders, doom divers

This gives the army more muscle, and a chance to get more combat res in through flanking (wolves, spiders, trolls), impact (chariot or giant's odd attacks), limiting the amount they can do to you by softening them up a bit (artillary).

Tarquinn
30-08-2006, 12:07
Thank you very much for that. :)

I should have been a little bit more specific about what I mean with a "pure" Night Goblin army. No Orcs and no goblins that are not Night Goblins. Trolls and Giants are fine.

I guess with these limitations I would lack in the cavalry department.

Sureshot05
30-08-2006, 12:16
Like has been said, its doable but hard.

I field two variations on my Night Goblin army. The purestrain is horde in the truest sense with over 400 models (in 2000 pts). Its fun, but I tend to see it running from the field an awful lot.

On the other hand, I have converted rock lobbers, spear chukka's and most importantly, a converted doom diver and these can give the army that vital competitive edge. Whilst they have the rules for common, i field them as night goblins (after all, skarsnik had a doom diver in the battle for karak 8 peaks). I also have a "chariot" based on the shelob model with a night goblin riding it in the works, which under the new rules will no doubts become a common goblin on a giant spider and I will be converting a unit of spider riders for my army as it fits the theme nicely (spiders in dark tunnels, got to be in my army).

Oh and a word on fanatics, if you field them, expect to lose half the number of night goblin units you field to panic. Happens to me on regular basis and you just have to smile and get used to it.

Jedi152
31-08-2006, 13:27
What about armies with no magic? Would it be feasible or just stupid to take a Bret army and not take any Damsels?

TheWarSmith
31-08-2006, 13:47
Unless you took that enchanted item that gives a unit MR3, you could be ripped apart by even moderate magic lists that take 4 lvls of magic. Think of those strength 2, no armour save spells(or the high -AS ones). lore of metal could rip you a new one, and vampire counts would keep raising and raising without any way to stop them. Those 2 dice won't get you far.

Anti orc/common gobbo armies are indeed viable. They're trickier though. Would you count warmachines as "common gobbos"? I think the doom diver is night gobbo, but taking stone throwers and spear chukkas would be good.

Squig herds are an option too, and they won't be as much of a PITA in their new rulebook, taking 5 minutes at the beginning of every turn. I don't think you'd want trolls. They're a valuable rare slot and in an all gobbo army, you don't have very good leadership to babysit them(they move half their move forward if they fail ld4 tests)

5 units of 25-30 night gobbos, netters, fanatics

3 lvl 2 night goblin shamans

1 lvl 4 night goblin shaman

1 doom diver

1 giant

Frecus
31-08-2006, 13:52
With bretts, it's doable, as there are ways to protect your main unit. The rest of the army should benefit from having roughly 200 extra points.

With elves or undead, it's suicide. Undead is clear; they live on magic. Elves just have too few numbers to make it. T3 and low numbers is bad if you only have 2 DD to defend yourself.

Other armies; I guess most would be badly hurt without magic. They both miss the support it can give and the defense it provides. They'll make it if led by a good player, but it is harder.

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

DarkTerror
31-08-2006, 14:17
It's plenty possible to survive without a mage in a Bret army. I've done it many times (although I prefer a level 1 scroll caddy to make sure I don't get hit too hard). Brets are fast enough and hard enough to just go without. Magic is not the game winner most of the game, nor is shooting. They are just helpers and if you plan right and make your game moves based on these decisions you could be just fine.

Tanith Ghost
31-08-2006, 17:54
I find a Khornate army can do well against magic based foes. Their magic resistance really helps against the likes of undead and elves.

I've oft had to do without magic with my skaven as well. In games of less than 2k points, I don't have any real spellcasters. I've found sheer numbers and cannon fodder can make up for this lacking quite well.

Crazy Harborc
01-09-2006, 01:51
If you are looking for a army that'll win every battle, destroy your opponents ego, etc........Look at Chaos, with loads of wizards etc.

IF you want to enjoy playing for the fun to be had.......new friends, laughs during the games.......something beyond a "need to win". Orcs and Goblins are good. Plus, it's the first armybook out after 7th Edition is available.

I suggest, that since Woodies, the Ogre army and Dwaves current armybooks are 7th compatible....pick from them.

Nkari
01-09-2006, 11:54
Chaos is not the no brainer that is used to be imho..

But to answer your question, No, you can not make an army list that will _allways_ loose no matter what army you face.. The more games you play the greater the chances are that your opponent has horrendrus bad luck and you got once in a blue moon luck, thereby winning you the game..

but you can deffinitly stack the odds in your favour..

And with that, a NG army is by no means a power gamers army, but it can be made competative, and if your a good general, it can even be made really good..

Gaius Marius
01-09-2006, 18:11
Crazy Harborc, dude, buddy...

I don't know about your area but around these parts Chaos is not considered a no brain winner. With no shooting and expensive units few players have even got .500 records with Chaos.

In fact, Chaos is often thought of as one of the harder armies to master.

Unless you are refering to the Under 20 total Models Tzeentch Cheesefest of Doom.

2 or 3 Marked Chariots
2 x 4 man units of Chaos Knights unmarked.
3 or 4 Chaos Hero Types on surfboards.
1 Hellcannon.
(the magic phase is intense, the rest of the army can set up well away from the Hell Cannon, and the 3 or 4 'flyers' hit like a ton of bricks.

What do the no brainer Chaos lists look like in your gaming community?

Crazy Harborc
02-09-2006, 00:56
Under 20 models, Tzeentch etc., etc. THAT is what the guy had/has. Nothing like a game where one opponent has 15 casting dice, in a 2000 point army.

I had "thought" about having a spear chukka for that night. I decided not to, if only I had know who/what I would be up against.

Gaius Marius
13-09-2006, 15:57
I am very sorry to hear that Crazy Harborc. We had an army here like that, and we mocked him, and mocked him, and well, gave him terrible sportsmanship / composition scores in local gamestore tourneys etc. He stopped eventually, his excuse was that he didn't have time to paint anthing more numerous. Mind you the same guy played an Eldar 40K list that had 6 warwalkers with starcannons, a seer council, bare minimum troops selection and a special character in his friendly tournament list as well, some people you just can't help...

IcedCrow
13-09-2006, 16:37
You shouldn't mock him. That's how he wants to play the game. Mocking him is poor sportsmanship on the mockers' part.

Instead of mocking him you should try and find him a group where he'd be more compatable.

Gaius Marius
13-09-2006, 17:58
Well Mr. Iced Crow, we mocked him gently. Like "wow 17 models how long did that take to paint?" or "... they are called Units, and many armies have them, maybe yours could too..." or " Holy Shizzle I can't believe how cheesy and un-fun that army list is, cool joke list man... uhm it's not a joke?" and so on.

Mockery is a critical part of shame based behaviour modification :)

Look, lists like that are quite beatable with enough experience and a well balanced army yourself, but aren't much fun to play against. However, for new/ less experienced players they are difficult or seem impossible to overcome, and as a bonus aren't much fun to play against.

I play in a realitvely small city / region and the local tournament circuit is very short, so you will probably run into each other again, and in a tourney setting in particular you don't get to reject your opponent. On a personal level he is a friendly guy, nice, so why tell him he is an uncompetative nasty cheese-whore :cheese: , when instead you could try to modify behaviour?

There aren't large groups of gamers out there who congregate based on degree of cheese/beard, so telling him to run off and find his "herd" wasn't really an option I'm afraid..

Rioghan Murchadha
15-09-2006, 20:40
With elves or undead, it's suicide. Undead is clear; they live on magic. Elves just have too few numbers to make it. T3 and low numbers is bad if you only have 2 DD to defend yourself.
Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

Actually, for the bulk of 6th edition I ran a high elf army that was all infantry, with no mages, and no RBTs. I even had white lions in it.. (No phoenix guard though). Enjoyed a great deal of success, even against your listed brutal opposition. Eventually I sold them after 14 years of playing them, because 6th edition had made them a pale shadow of their former glory.. (I refer to the 4th edition book, not the 5th ed cheesefest).

Point is, you do NOT need magic to be successful even if you opponent uses lots of it. If he does so, he suffers in other departments..

My High Elves ran 92 models in 2000 pts. That outnumbers a fair few armies out there, and against the ones that still outnumbered it, it had far superior skill and equipment.

perrin23860
15-09-2006, 21:12
Under 20 models, Tzeentch etc., etc. THAT is what the guy had/has. Nothing like a game where one opponent has 15 casting dice, in a 2000 point army.


well, from a guy who usually plays heavy magic armies, (because i usually have to, i play vampire counts), there will come a day for this army, where miscasts alone will ruin his day. thats the chance you take. plus with the new table being so nasty.... hehe