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DirtJumper
30-08-2006, 03:31
Well, i've got about 1000pts of Tzeentch Daemons that will probrably be lying around when 7th ed rolls around, as it will pretty much be nerfing the efectiveness of the Tzeentch Daemon Horde list, so I decided why not try throwing them in with a Beasts army instead?

Lords+Heroes:
-Beastlord (95) Mark of Tzeentch (140) Armor of Damnation (30) Horn of the Great Hunt (30) Great Weapon (6)...301 points

-Wargor (60) Mark of Tzeentch (70) Great Weapon (4)...134 points

-Wargor (60) Mark of Tzeentch (70) Great Weapon (4)...134 points

-Wargor (60) Mark of Tzeentch (70) Great Weapon (4)...134 points

Core:
9 Gor (63) 11 Ungor (44) Full Command (35)...142 points

9 Gor (63) 11 Ungor (44) Full command (35)...142 points

14 Gor (98) 5 Ungor (20) Full command (35)...153 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

Tusgor Charriot (85) Mark of Tzeentch (20)...105 points

Tusgor Charriot (85) Mark of Tzeentch (20)...105 points

5 Warhounds (30)...30 points

5 Warhounds (30)...30 points

5 Warhounds (30)...30 points

5 Warhounds (30)...30 points

Special:
16 Horrors (240) 4 Flamers (100)...340 Points

5 Screamers (165)...165 points

5 Screamers (165)...165 points

Rare:
Firewyrm of Tzeentch (75)
Firewyrm of Tzeentch (75)

Total: 2500 Points

PD:14
DD:7

Basically, 3 of the Warhounds units and all the 15-man Beast units use their Ambush, and try and get flank/rear charges with the Hounds, and cause crossfires with the Heards (when 7th comes out, of course) The Spawn and the bigger heards with Characters in them will go after their basic infantry units, or combine wit the Ambushing Warhounds to try and take down more elite units. The screamers and Flamers, of course, will be going for weak missile units as well as warmachine crews and lone wizards (not that I expect to see many of them in 7th, be still) Gunline armies will get spanked by this (I hope) and I am fairly confident that I can take on most infantry-based lists. My sole concern really is with Cavalry, although a lot of tzeentch magic can go though armor, I don't want it to be the only thing that I rely on to beat it. I suppose weight of Attacks+shots could do it, same with the characters, but I'm a little curious as to how this would hold up against a Bretonian army.

The Goal is to cut this down to 2000 points, ideally, and I need your help to figure out what I should cut.

TheWarSmith
30-08-2006, 03:54
1) screamers are 0-1 unfortunately(but fairly)

2)Tuskgor chariots can only take mark of undivided. Make them chaos chariots to get access to MoT.

3)I'd take a staff of change for your lord. It will REALLY help him utilize his now slightly limited casting pool(7th ed doesn't let you leech from other casters), allowing you to use less dice on each spell, and really cranks out dispels very nicely.

4)Slap some armour on those characters

5)I'm always a fan of FC on beast herds. Cut out one herd to add numbers to the others. Big herds are great.

6)Be careful on your warhounds. They'll cause panic tests very easily if you're using them as herd screens, and at ld7, that's not good.

DirtJumper
30-08-2006, 15:21
Oops. I diden't really check on numbers 1+2. I normally give Chaos Armor to all my Beast Heroes, but I forgot when I was making the list. I was considering the Staff, but I really want the Horn on him, and if I take the Horn and the Staff it leaves no room for Chaos Armor :( The Smaller Beast herds are like that because all they will do is hunt warmachines or support the 3 bigger Heards with combined charges, but their main role, as I said, is to take advantage of the crossfire rule in 7th. The Hounds will normally start the game in Ambush so they can charge into flanks and rears of units to take away rank bonus, as they are the only things in the army that can really do so. Maybe to cut it down to 2k I can take away the Charriots, 1 unit of Screamers (that would cut 375 points) and something else, and maybe make room for the staff. Thoughts?

TheWarSmith
30-08-2006, 17:42
well, you can only give "chaos armour" to one beast hero/lord. You can obviously give others magical chaos armour, such as armour of damnation.

I'd really suggest taking the staff+horn/armour


Yeah, it is a 2500 point list, which isn't the most conventional point game. Definitely drop 5 screamers.. 1 unit is all you really need. I like the horror unit(right size) but I'm not a big fan of flamers outside of DL lists, so I'd drop them to free up 100 points.

Doing those changes will free up 305 points(including your illegal chariot MoTs)

Personally, I'd hold at least one big herd(preferably 2) in ambush to get real threat behind his lines(warhounds can just be nuked too easily)

Voss
31-08-2006, 17:35
You could add 1 unit of bestigors with the mark of tzeentch (Tzaangors) if you want the floating power die. You can get a small elite unit fairly easily for the points you'll free up with the loss of a screamer unit and the marks on the chariots.

rhaberova
01-09-2006, 06:15
You'd only be able to ambush 7 units with that army (not all 7 beast herds and 3 warhound units). I've played beastmen since the new book came out and the biggest problem i've had with any army is cavalry...i'd suggest a 25 or more man unit of bestigors with a basic army standard with the "banner of the gods" (making them stubborn). I also get khorne (2 attacks at weapon skill 4 & strength 6 for all of them) for them if i'm particularly worried about my opponents cavalry. Then you can also get banner of rage (since you can get a magic banner up to 50 points in a bestigor unit) so they don't lose their frenzy if they lose combat. The whole unit is usually 500 or 600, but it stops huge devastating cavalry in their tracks. Then i always just flank the opponent if the bestigors don't kill them off. I always win doing that. Hope it helps. Also you don't have any minotaurs?? :wtf:.........i'd have no clue what to cut i really wouldn't run that army. Beastmen and magic aren't a good combination. Magic is going to be worse in the next edition too.

zak
01-09-2006, 21:20
I wouldn't cut the chariots as these are cheap, but extremely effective. I would cut a couple of herds, a unit of screamers and one of the fire wyrms. I've never used so many herds so I'm unsure how this army would fare. I think that as said before it would struggle against cavalry heavy armies.

TheWarSmith
02-09-2006, 04:19
I play tzeentch beastmen and I just noticed something in your list, that you have 10 lvls of magic.

I havent' played a game of 7th yet, so I can't really say how the new magic works in 7th, but i usually only go for 8 lvls of magic, lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2s.

DirtJumper
02-09-2006, 23:22
I woulden't be ambushing all of the heards, just the 4 small ones and Warhounds (i.e 7) I've cut it down to 2000 now.

Lords+Heroes:
-Beastlord (95) Mark of Tzeentch (140) Heavy Armor (6) Horn of the Great Hunt (30) Staff of Change (65) Great Weapon (6) Sheild (3)...345 points

-Wargor (60) Mark of Tzeentch (70) Heavy Armor(4) Great Weapon (4)...138 points

-Wargor (60) Mark of Tzeentch (70) Heavy Armor(4) Great Weapon (4)...138 points

Core:
9 Gor (63) 11 Ungor (44) Standard+Musician (15)...122 points

9 Gor (63) 11 Ungor (44) Standard+Musician (15)...122 points

14 Gor (98) 5 Ungor (20) Standard+Musician (15)...133 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

10 Gor (70) 5 Ungor (20) Foe-Render (20)...110 points

Tusgor Charriot (85)...85 points

Tusgor Charriot (85)...85 points

5 Warhounds (30)...30 points

5 Warhounds (30)...30 points

Special:
5 Screamers (165)...165 points

3 Minotaurs (120) Great Weapons (18) Mark of Tzeentch (20)...158 Points

3 Minotaurs (120) Great Weapons (18) Mark of Tzeentch (20)...158 Points

Rare:
Firewyrm of Tzeentch (75)

Total: 1993 Points

PD:12
DD:6

Any better?

rhaberova
03-09-2006, 04:16
I woulden't be ambushing all of the heards,

Aren't you able to only ambush half of your units/characters?? or am i missing something? Thanks

TheWarSmith
03-09-2006, 06:52
up to half the number of units/characters with "ambush" special rule.

So in that list he has 12 ambushing unit/characters, so he could ambush 6.

DirtJumper
03-09-2006, 15:54
i.e. The 4 15-strong Beastherds and the 2 units of Warhounds.

rhaberova
04-09-2006, 01:03
i.e. The 4 15-strong Beastherds and the 2 units of Warhounds.
Ya it's up to half (rounding down). So in this list it'd actually be 15 (so up to 7). IE 7 units!

DirtJumper
04-09-2006, 01:33
Which is why in the original list I said that I only had the small (i.e. the four 15 man) Beast units ambushing along with the 3 units of hounds, making 7 in total. ;)