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Viskrit
31-08-2006, 21:15
I have a question. Can Bray-staffs be used by Beastlords with the mark of Tzeentch? I know they aren't the same troop type as Bray-shamans, but I still think it would be logical. Are they allowed, or not?

NakedFisherman
31-08-2006, 21:27
They aren't shamans, are they?

Duckass
31-08-2006, 21:43
Beastlords/wargors with the Mark of Tzeentch are shamans and can get a bray-staff in the shape of Staff of Darkoth.

EvC
31-08-2006, 22:52
Be careful with terminology... they are considered as "Wizards" or magic-users, but are they really specifically Shamans?

MarcoPollo
01-09-2006, 05:51
We have had this discussion before. I think it went like this.

1) Beasts magic-users/wizards are called shamans.

2) Wargors/beastlords of Tzeetch are magic users.

3) Wargors/beastlords of Tzeetch are also shaman.

4) Wargors/beastlords cannot use a braystaff on their normal profile.

5) Wargors/beastlords can use arcane items.

6) The staff of Darkoth is an arcane item.

7) Wargors/beastlords can use the staff of Darkoth only.

Of course there are some small loopholes with a regular braystaff not being used by wargors, but given that it is an arcane item and not a magic weapon, allows tzeetch wargors to use it as an arcane item.

We have played that way at our store. So a very good combo is to use the braystaff (9+)and a powerstone to get the spell off. At 1.5K this a very lethal combo indeed.

T10
01-09-2006, 06:49
Quite frankly, I don't really care. If my opponents want to take the Staff of Darkoth on their Tzeentch Wargor then they may go right ahead.

However, I don't think a "wizardy" Wargor qualifies as a Shaman. Not culturally. The Tzentch Wargor is a fighter-jock with spells. The Shaman is the tribe's spiritual guide. The Wargor gets the big axe, the Shaman gets the stick.

Viskrit
01-09-2006, 18:11
I looked it up. They can use the Staff of Darkoth, but not the Bray-staff.

The staff of Darkoth is usable by Shamans only. At the end of the book, in the magic section, it clearly states that Beastlords and Wargors with the MoT count as shamans.

As a side note, it also says that they are the shamans of their tribes, not merely warriors with spells.

Spaco
01-09-2006, 19:58
A box of cookies to whoever can figure out how to get a braystaff or staff of darkoth on a Tzeentch Shaggoth Champion..:p

metro_gnome
02-09-2006, 02:32
not possible...
but getting the staff on a doombull is more probable...
tho i believe still illegal...

Atrahasis
02-09-2006, 08:11
Still illegal because though it is both a Magic Item and a Weapon, it is not a Magic Weapon, which are the only Magic Items Doombulls can take.

Multifarious
02-09-2006, 08:46
I think that a Wargor with the MoT represents a shaman who exercises and hits stuff well as well as magic, rather than a Wargor who has learned spells through Tzeentch.

Maybe it could be either, I'm not an expert. I know Tzeentch likes followers with magic, but would he reward a very good schemer/fighter for his cause with magical ability?

metro_gnome
02-09-2006, 12:36
well im not sure...
is the staff a darkoth a magic weapon for the purpose of hitting ethereals or daemons?
if so the solution may not be as simple as you would make it seem...

Makaber
02-09-2006, 12:45
However, I don't think a "wizardy" Wargor qualifies as a Shaman. Not culturally. The Tzentch Wargor is a fighter-jock with spells. The Shaman is the tribe's spiritual guide. The Wargor gets the big axe, the Shaman gets the stick.

Actually, that's not really true. All shamans start out the same: Guy with stick. As they progress up the ladder, they may or may not get blessed by Tzeench. Most don't, however the most outstanding shamans might get blessed, and end up with a better statline to show how outstanding they are.

So, in other words, it's not a case of some jock gor waking up one day knowing magic, that is, taking a hero statline and adding magic levels. Rather, it's taking a shamam blessed with a hero statline, and replacing his lore with that of Tzeench.

So, per game mechanics, the upgrade is of course giving a fighter-hero magic levels. However, as per the background, the upgrade is actually replacing the lore of an exceptional shaman with of Tzeench. Makes no sense, I know. I'd much rather have a Beastlord with 4 levels and Lore of Shadows.

T10
02-09-2006, 14:52
Well, Tzeentch magic is less than spectacular compared to the standard lores. It may be that the overall change makes Tzeentch magic a more interesting choice.

-T10

ZomboCom
02-09-2006, 15:44
Either way, the answer to the question is simple enough..

Yes, they can have the staff of darkoth, no they can't have a normal bray staff.