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Marshal Banana
01-09-2006, 23:45
I was interested in reading some opinions of yours about this faction of Lizardmen. And of course feedback from the players that use it.

A few questions for now..

1.) Since the Slann have to be of 4th or 5th generation in this army, would it be against the rules to bring the character, Lord Kroak into it? What about the 'ethical' side of it, would that be looked down upon in say, tournament play?

2.) The Skink Horned One riders seem like they'd make this army affective, and fast calvary sounds fun as ever. But, I cant seem to find their miniatures anywhere, the closest thing to em on the Games Workshop site are these:http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=305189&orignav=301082&ParentID=255104&GameNav=13
The Dogs of War unit, Tichi Huichis Raiders. Is there any other way to represent these on the table top?

3.) I know Saurus units are very limited with this, but I've read that for every Scar Veteran you are allowed one unit of Saurus? And this includes Temple Guard?



Thanks in advance.

ZomboCom
02-09-2006, 10:35
1.) Since the Slann have to be of 4th or 5th generation in this army, would it be against the rules to bring the character, Lord Kroak into it? What about the 'ethical' side of it, would that be looked down upon in say, tournament play?


You cannot use Lord Kroak in a southlands army. He's not 4th or 5th generation, and doesn't come from the southlands.



2.) The Skink Horned One riders seem like they'd make this army affective, and fast calvary sounds fun as ever. But, I cant seem to find their miniatures anywhere, the closest thing to em on the Games Workshop site are these:http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=305189&orignav=301082&ParentID=255104&GameNav=13
The Dogs of War unit, Tichi Huichis Raiders. Is there any other way to represent these on the table top?


Tichi Huichi's Raiders are the only skinks on horned ones models GW sells. As far as I remember they're actually the old 5th edition horned one riders just renamed as a regiment of reknown to sell more of them.



3.) I know Saurus units are very limited with this, but I've read that for every Scar Veteran you are allowed one unit of Saurus? And this includes Temple Guard?


As far as I can remember the temple guard are not limited in that way, but still can only be taken if a slann is taken.

fracas
02-09-2006, 19:00
temple guards are per Slann
otherwise your questions have been answered as above

edit,
btw, i am skeptical this list will exist with the next army book update
imo this list was made to appease all the lizardmen players with skinks from 5th edition armed with short bow
as these models are no lonhger being produced, unless they add a new sprue to the skink kits i expect GW to let them fade out, along with the list.

Elannion
02-09-2006, 21:27
As far as I remember they're actually the old 5th edition horned one riders just renamed as a regiment of reknown to sell more of them.


Actually i don't believe there were any cold one units before the RoR for the lizardmen, if i remember correctly in 5th edition there weren't always models for every regiment the RoR was brought in as they revamps some lizardmen and to us as cold one riders i think. As for the effectiveness of this unit, i think it probably is quite fair but they are very high points and fragile so becareful.

I would have to agree with fracas on that one, they didnt really want people taking that list this edition (anthony reynolds or whoever it was told me he deliberately produced this list weaker than the main one because of that), i think if you are among friends and you can tweak a few of the points values you might get away using this list effectively, otherwise its just a weakened lizardmen list with less options and the ability to take lots of skink heros.

ZomboCom
02-09-2006, 22:28
otherwise its just a weakened lizardmen list with less options and the ability to take lots of skink heros.

I wouldn't call it weakened. The 5 skink priests, 6 sallys and a horde of shortbow skinks is a rightly feared tournament army.

Divine Shadow
02-09-2006, 23:55
I've never been so annoyed as I was when I fought a southlands list. They can take way too much magic and magic defense. Tons of skirmishers to shoot you and run away and small blocks of skinks (2x5) that are highly manuverable which can easily turn your charging units sideways for a flank charge from a stegadon or kroxigors. They take or contest table quarters very easily. When you do kill something you don't get very many VPs. They don't fight like any other army and tend to **** a lot of people off.

Marshal Banana
03-09-2006, 00:15
Heh, they sound fun for that reason.. Even if they might be a bit unfair like you say.

One more question, since Kroak can't be the lord can Kroq Gar?

If so I'd imagine he'd count with the Saurus Warrior limit. And I also read that your lord can also be 2 Skink Chiefs. What I was thinking was have each of those leading separate units of Horned One riders and just trample everybody, hehe. Or put one of them on a stegadon, either way would be pretty fun.

By the way, this has been a great help.
Thanks again!

Elannion
03-09-2006, 15:25
I wouldn't call it weakened. The 5 skink priests, 6 sallys and a horde of shortbow skinks is a rightly feared tournament army.

I would, skink priest are prtty nifty i did say that was the one advantage, though as opposed to a 2nd gen slann the power is still with the slann (especially in 7th ed) and hes cheaper and he doesn't take up all your character slots (which are especially important when scar vets limit the amount of saurus you have), 6 salamanders can be in a normal army. Skinks with short bows i wouldn't put as an advantage however, short bows have a slight advantage on range then blow pipes but otherwise are not really better, increasing skinks points is always a bad thing because, they always die/flee at the slightest thing, now the beauty with normal skinks is that doesn't matter an awful lot, but when we start getting up to 7-8points a model that gets abit too far (especially compared to normal skinks) without really much benifit. Similar things can be said about cohorts, they are simply too expensive when a skink is soo fragile for them to be atall worth it, i mean don't get me wrong they are both nice units and i can see advantages to them, but they are way too expesive for the vunerability of a skink.

Essentially i guess what i am saying is that a normal lizardmen army can do everything a southlands can effectively, there are some slight differences in the south lands list but most are overpriced and so not worth it, the only good difference is that of allowing 2 skink characters to be a lord but in 2000pts that means no saurus all of this is at the expense of alot less saurus, no 2nd and 3rd gen slann, saurus characters being rarer, temple gaurd being rare and no saurus cavalry, that is in the sense that they are weakened, being as they only have one good point as opposed to lots of negatives.

ZomboCom
03-09-2006, 20:41
I would, skink priest are prtty nifty i did say that was the one advantage, though as opposed to a 2nd gen slann the power is still with the slann (especially in 7th ed) and hes cheaper and he doesn't take up all your character slots (which are especially important when scar vets limit the amount of saurus you have),
[quote]

Errr, in the southlands list the Scar Vets are a lord choice, so you can't have one and a slann in 2000 points anyway.

Anyway, in a tournament environment who the hell wants saurus?

[QUOTE=Elannion;917839]
6 salamanders can be in a normal army. Skinks with short bows i wouldn't put as an advantage however, short bows have a slight advantage on range then blow pipes but otherwise are not really better, increasing skinks points is always a bad thing because, they always die/flee at the slightest thing, now the beauty with normal skinks is that doesn't matter an awful lot, but when we start getting up to 7-8points a model that gets abit too far (especially compared to normal skinks) without really much benifit.


7 points per model is one point more than 6 points per model. It's never 8. 16 inch range is awesome for skinks, it means they can stay out of the charge range of most cavalry and still shoot away.



Similar things can be said about cohorts, they are simply too expensive when a skink is soo fragile for them to be atall worth it, i mean don't get me wrong they are both nice units and i can see advantages to them, but they are way too expesive for the vunerability of a skink.


Agreed, cohorts are useless, but why take them ever when you can have more shortbows?



Essentially i guess what i am saying is that a normal lizardmen army can do everything a southlands can effectively, there are some slight differences in the south lands list but most are overpriced and so not worth it, the only good difference is that of allowing 2 skink characters to be a lord but in 2000pts that means no saurus all of this is at the expense of alot less saurus, no 2nd and 3rd gen slann, saurus characters being rarer, temple gaurd being rare and no saurus cavalry, that is in the sense that they are weakened, being as they only have one good point as opposed to lots of negatives.

Probably true, I never said it was as strong as the lustrian list, but it's still an annoying, strong army list. The lack of saurus isn't a big deal at all, since they suck.



One more question, since Kroak can't be the lord can Kroq Gar?


No. Read Kroq Gar's rules, he has his own army list seperate from the southlands and lustria lists.

Elannion
04-09-2006, 18:35
hey there, what i meant was being able to take 5 skink priests isn't as much of an advantage, as opposed to being able to take a 2nd gen slann in the lustria list (which you can't do in southlands).

I do believe that its 8 points per model if you have the skinks scouting, 16 inches doesn't keep them out of range of cavalry, a large amount of heavy cavalry doesnt get bothered by barding or has a long enough range anyway (plus why would your skinks be shooting at heavy cavalry, thats not gunna get very far) and even a unit of fast cavalry is powerful enough to easily take out a unit of skinks. 16 inches means that short range is in charge range of most people (and with skinks you want as few range penaltys as possible), i would say the small amount of extra range is less of an advantage as multipul shot or no penaltys from javalins and it costs more


Probably true, I never said it was as strong as the lustrian list, but it's still an annoying, strong army list. The lack of saurus isn't a big deal at all, since they suck.

I wouldn't call it weakened.

How can you say saurus suck? ok they are a tad expensive but are probably one of the best infatry units about. Anyway the main problem with not having saurus and cohorts being too expensive is that you then have no rank fighting infantry or powwerful fighter heros, which leaves your army abit flat and also all skink skirmish lists can be quite annoying/boring for opponents.

Marshal Banana
05-09-2006, 01:56
No. Read Kroq Gar's rules, he has his own army list seperate from the southlands and lustria lists.
Damn, so there aren't any characters that the Southlands can use? I did notice Tenenhauin, Prophet of Sotek is 'currently residing there' according to the book, and he has his own miniature. I'd use him if he only had stats, same goes for Mazamundi and Nakai the Kroxigor. Have people tried that before, and like, agreed on stats of these characters as a house rule? It'd be hard to find a good compromise for any of them, but I'd think Tenehauin would have a status mixture of a skink chief and priest.. hmm.


I do believe that its 8 points per model if you have the skinks scouting, 16 inches doesn't keep them out of range of cavalry, a large amount of heavy cavalry doesnt get bothered by barding or has a long enough range anyway (plus why would your skinks be shooting at heavy cavalry, thats not gunna get very far) and even a unit of fast cavalry is powerful enough to easily take out a unit of skinks. 16 inches means that short range is in charge range of most people (and with skinks you want as few range penaltys as possible), i would say the small amount of extra range is less of an advantage as multipul shot or no penaltys from javalins and it costs more
I don't see anything on Skinks having a Scout option for the Southlands, only for Lustria and they are 7 points per model. But they can have Sacred Spawnings on them, unlike Lustria Skinks, and they count as Special units. Maybe the only Scouts Southlands can have are the Chameleon Skinks? Theres always the short bows if nothing else..

Elannion
10-09-2006, 14:07
I do believe that it says they are the same as lustrian skinks just with the additional rule so yes they can scout. sorry to trudge up an old topic

Marshal Banana
02-10-2006, 01:32
Sorry to bump this old thread, I am curious about something else.

So, I read about how in the Lizardmen Southlands army you can have Saurus Scar Veterans as heroes (or lords), and my question is if they can ride a Cold One (or Horned One?) in battle. The list says that Saurus Warrior units cannot have blessings, but there is nothing debunking Scar Vets with the Spawning of Itzl, or any spawning for that matter.

Also I'm pretty sure that if there is a Slann, then they must be the battle standard bearer, otherwise a Scar Vet can if one is not fielded. Its too bad, I was hoping to have the Scar Veteran have a Battle Standard, and depend less on a Slann Lord in that department.

Thanks again!

Oh, and I found out there are rules for Tenenhauin, they're just in the Lustria supplement.

TheWarSmith
02-10-2006, 01:59
So broken it's stupid

fracas
02-10-2006, 02:15
the Tenehauin list is similar to the southland list but minus the fast cav, slann and short bow
imo the only reason to take the Southland now list is to take the short bows. the fast cav option is amusing but i don't think many find them useful. tichi-huichi as a dogs of war unit would be more entertaining