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damz451
03-09-2006, 02:46
I downloaded the dark crusade demo and was playing the second mission on it and the Blood Ravens commander shouts "Glory to the unknown emperor" which sorta suggests that the primarch did indeed exist and that the blood ravens are connected to him in some way.

Would you consider a game to legit fluff if it gave any exra information?

BrainFireBob
03-09-2006, 03:16
The Blood Ravens don't know their own Primarch.

I'm unclear what you're suggesting he said, what he's actually saying is: "Glory to our Primarch (whichever one he is)!"

DantesInferno
03-09-2006, 03:27
I'm unclear what you're suggesting he said, what he's actually saying is: "Glory to our Primarch (whichever one he is)!"

I'd assume that's what was meant, not that their Primarch was one of the ones deleted from records.

Besides, people might get edgy if the Blood Ravens went around shouting 'Glory to Magnus!' ;)

Nabeshin1106
03-09-2006, 03:41
The Blood Ravens do not know which chapter they are the succesors to, so they do not know who their Primarch is.

Maybe they were from the geneseed of one of the two missing Primarchs?

Malphax
03-09-2006, 04:32
Well, the fact that Blood Ravens have a huge number of psykers and almost identical tactics to the Thousand Sons kinda tipped me off to their Primarch, and as a TS player I think that would be quite nifty, but honestly I have no idea. It could be anybody, in theory, missing or no.

The reason I think it probably is NOT the Thousand Sons or any of the other Traitor Legions, or either of the two expunged Legions, is that their records only date back to M37, and other Imperial records concerning them only date back a few centuries earlier. I know that the Blood Ravens have some deep, dark secret that nobody knows about (and I mean NOBODY, not even the Librarians), but a) it doesn't make sense that they'd use Traitor geneseed especially if all their geneseed was supposedly destroyed right after the Heresy, b) it seems unlikely that they would have six thousand years of undocumented history, rather than just a dozen centuries or so, and c) it doesn't make sense that there would be any successor chapters to the expunged Legions, whose geneseed was completely destroyed, thus the expunging of all record of their existence.

So I cast my vote in with "Wait and See, or: Keep On Waiting Kid They'll Release More Info Someday."

BrainFireBob
03-09-2006, 04:36
Actually, Malphax, the Traitor gene-seed WASN'T destroyed- it was "placed in a time-locked stasis field." As I read things, that's how they check for "mutation" in "modern" CSMs- they compare it to "original" gene-seed.

Hence, it could indeed be accessed. And used in a founding- and it's vaguely implied certain Dark/Cursed Chapters may either use Traitor geneseed or "doctored" traiter gene-seed (hybrid with loyalist).

Bard
03-09-2006, 04:44
My bet? Don't put too much stock into trying waiting for Dawn of War to reveal who the primarch is, as it really doesn't seem their style. DOW strikes me as a great game but rather haphazard storywise/ some of the corners weren't bothered to be filled in as perfectly as the gameplay (voices, plot, etc.) And GW seems to support the game only hobbywise (them taking some white dwarf time to go "yay, Blood Ravens! Here's a cookie". In all likelihood, GW won't tell who the Primarch is and THQ probably hasn't thought of it.


Wow, that was so scathingly fan-boy, internet blogging negative... nice.

damz451
03-09-2006, 14:07
The blood ravens have a high number of phykers because they recruit a lot of phykers, the thousand sons had a lot of phykers because of their geneseed. They have different causes of phycic mutations so its extremely unlikely that they are linked.

heretics bane
03-09-2006, 14:10
theres only a couple of people who know,the current chapter master angelous, the chief libarian, and the high lords of terra. i have some history on the blood ravens myself do you want it??

cybertron2000uk
03-09-2006, 22:17
yes please!....even tho I have the dwarf...lol

its a simple but great idea..to have no idea of there own primarch...it works and GW didnt come up with it.....lol

ack the demos out??? tau!! I suprised when the front rank didnt kneel down to shoot...boooo!!! it looks cool! why didnt they do it???

ah well...

Commander Ozae
03-09-2006, 22:25
If you check the Black Library homepage they're writting a third book in the Dawn of War series, called Dawn of War: Tempest. Moving away from Gabriel this is about a Librarian who is stranded on a world in the Eye of Terror or right on the outskirts. Apparently he finds eldar and some secret of theirs as well as hinting about the secret history of the Blood Ravens. Wait until October or September and see if any more secrets are revealed to us.

Wraithbored
03-09-2006, 22:26
It would be cool if their geneseed was of Thousand Sons descent, perhaps throw some dark angel in there too "secretify" it up a bit. And I have to say that warshout is lame but it's better than "For Anonymus Incognitus Maximus!"

Dominus Doloris
05-09-2006, 02:52
Well there's a highly unlikely chance that it COULD be traitor geneseed...
I mean what ever happend to those loyalists marines in the traitor legions, the ones that made it back to Terra to warn the Emperor? We're they all killed or what?

La'mour Le Breton
05-09-2006, 08:16
can space marine geneseeds be mixed? i mean ill just take a base of ultramarine for stability, add some imp fist for stubborness, a dash of space wolf for courage, and so on, is that possible?

DantesInferno
05-09-2006, 09:29
can space marine geneseeds be mixed? i mean ill just take a base of ultramarine for stability, add some imp fist for stubborness, a dash of space wolf for courage, and so on, is that possible?

In a word: Yes.

The Cursed Founding was said to mix the gene-seeds of different legions, or manipulate existing gene-seeds (cf. Lamenters, Relictors, etc).

Keep in mind, however, that this mixing seems to have lead quite often to horrific results. It certainly wasn't a widespread practice in the more mainstream Foundings, so only a very very small portion of Marine Chapters out there will have tampered gene-seed.

Dominus Doloris
05-09-2006, 22:21
can space marine geneseeds be mixed? i mean ill just take a base of ultramarine for stability, add some imp fist for stubborness, a dash of space wolf for courage, and so on, is that possible?

Yeah they could be, but I think it would have been safer to do while the Emperor was still around, now the Imperium is kind of lacking in the technological advancement area. Genetic Engineering was how the Space Marines were created, so then they were probably quite efficient and it could have been done.

Just a thought, but maybe thats how the Custodes were created...

Wraithbored
05-09-2006, 23:19
In Storm of Iron the Iron Warrior later Warsmith Honsou is halfImperial fist and half Iron warrior.

lord_blackfang
05-09-2006, 23:37
In Storm of Iron the Iron Warrior later Warsmith Honsou is halfImperial fist and half Iron warrior.

Which was his mother's side?

Kegluneq
05-09-2006, 23:41
That's never exactly explained XD Presumably his geneseed is a mix, which is generally seen as a Marine's 'true' genetic heritage anyway...

SisterMordagg
06-09-2006, 02:51
Well there's a highly unlikely chance that it COULD be traitor geneseed...
I mean what ever happend to those loyalists marines in the traitor legions, the ones that made it back to Terra to warn the Emperor? We're they all killed or what?

Apparently they are hints that their geneseed was used to create the Grey Knights.

Toastrider
06-09-2006, 03:40
I'm surprised no one's considered how the Ravens might be 'successors' of the Grey Knights.

Before you laugh, note that the Knights are /all/ psykers to take advantage of their force weapons. Blood Ravens have a high percentage of psyker aptitude.

The Blood Ravens' history has been purged very, very thoroughly; only a couple of entities in the Imperium could get away with that, one of whom is the Inquisition.

And while the Inquisition is not the nicest bunch, they're not stupid. What if some disaster befell the Grey Knights, or they were depleted battling a greater daemon? It wouldn't surprise me if the Inquisition had the Ravens as an ace in the hole, a ready source of geneseed to repopulate the Knights if needed. And before you ask... no, they wouldn't need to /steal/ it. Remember: all chapters tithe geneseed.

As far as the DoW books go... ugh. C.S. Goto really hasn't impressed me all that much.

--TR

Nabeshin1106
06-09-2006, 05:20
hmm.. I can almost agree with you on that, but I do see a problem.

Aren't the Blood Raven's Catalepsean Nodes defective? I would think that the Grey Knights would have NO abnormalities in any of their enhanced organs, because they are so pure.

unknownps
06-09-2006, 05:41
i like this idea of the grey knight being somewhat related

explains at least for me why they be in dark crusade

Dominus Doloris
06-09-2006, 11:47
Aren't the Blood Raven's Catalepsean Nodes defective? I would think that the Grey Knights would have NO abnormalities in any of their enhanced organs, because they are so pure.

This all ties back into the genetic engineering and is it possible to do that in the 41st millenium...

baphomael
06-09-2006, 12:02
If you check the Black Library homepage they're writting a third book in the Dawn of War series, called Dawn of War: Tempest. Moving away from Gabriel this is about a Librarian who is stranded on a world in the Eye of Terror or right on the outskirts. Apparently he finds eldar and some secret of theirs as well as hinting about the secret history of the Blood Ravens. Wait until October or September and see if any more secrets are revealed to us.

Oh dear, but that means reading another abortion courtesy of C.S Goto.

UltimateNagash
06-09-2006, 12:13
Which one is the catelpsean node. The one that lets them half sleep?

Malphax
06-09-2006, 17:20
Yep, that's the Catalepsean Node.

But I think you're thinking of the Raven Guard, who don't have a Betcher's Gland (spit acid) or a Mucranoid (oily sweat to protect against toxins), and whose Melanochromatic Organ is mutated in such a way that the skin loses its pigment over time. The Index Astartes article for the Blood Ravens doesn't mention any mutations, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Khaine's Messenger
06-09-2006, 17:26
This all ties back into the genetic engineering and is it possible to do that in the 41st millenium...

The Adeptus Mechanicus has personnel capable of designing tailored viruses that wipe out Tyranids of specific hive fleets, and the runaway Genetor in "Hive Fleet Horror" talks about genetic manipulation. So yes, genetic engineering is possible in the forty-first millenium. The big thing is, of course, all those niggling specifics of just what sort of manipulation they can do.

heretics bane
06-09-2006, 19:35
wouldnt surprise me about them being standins for the gry knights,well it did take over a hundred to banish a daemon primach and hes gonna come back in about 100yrs and a day

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
08-09-2006, 01:18
I thought it was a 1000 years and a day?

Toastrider
08-09-2006, 04:04
Big nod to Baphomael about C.S. Goto. Warrior Brood and Warrior Coven are amazingly bad.

But, back to subject.

Yeah, the Grey Knights do take massive casualties in combat with greater daemons. Ghargatuloth, for example, cost them hundreds of Marines. Owie.

Of course, the second time around, they figured out how to beat him the easy way. ;)

--TR

TrooperTino
08-09-2006, 17:13
Exterminatus?

heretics bane
08-09-2006, 22:11
I thought it was a 1000 years and a day?

either way hes still comin back, i say there a loyalist splinter group of the tousand sons as i have seen players using TS models to represent ravens any they look quite effective

damz451
08-09-2006, 23:24
One thing i dont understand is how people think blood ravens are related to thousand sons of grey knights. Blood ravens have many phykers because they recruit from worlds with high ammounts of phykers, Ultramarines would have many more librarians if they recruited from the same worlds as the blood ravens.

Thousand sons gain their phycic powers from their geneseed while the blood ravens had them before becoming space marines.

Captain Stern
08-09-2006, 23:24
I downloaded it too. Is that really how "primarch" is pronounced? I always imagined the "ch" at the end sounding like the "ch" in chocolate. I think it sounds better my way...

Khaine's Messenger
08-09-2006, 23:44
I think it sounds better my way...

What, "arch" as in "the Romans really liked the arch"? The "arc/ark" pronunciation follows from the common pronunciations of "monarch" and "oligarch" and the like. Mmmm, English...'tis an evil language. I prefer the "arc," if only for consistency's sake (aheh... :angel: ).