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Theadium
03-09-2006, 17:49
Hey guys, I have an RTT I hope to go to next weekend and I want to run my Slaanesh army. Usually I go magic heavy, but I want to try sporting a lord in this battle. Hes not a lord challenger lord, he is to fight off swarms of infantry. So tell me how this list looks...


Heroes
Lord of Slaanesh (370)
Steed of Slaanesh, Blade of Blood, Enchanted Shield, Gaze of the Gods, Pendant of Slaanesh

Sorcerer of Slaanesh (190)
Power Familiar

Sorcerer of Slaanesh (190)
Dispel Scroll

Core
Warriors of Slaanesh (320)
18 Warriors, Full Command, Shield

Chosen of Slaanesh (532)
18 Chosen, Full Command, Shield, Additional Hand Weapon, Rapturous Standard

Chaos Marauders (165)
20 Marauders, Full Command, Flail, Light Armor

Chaos Marauders (109)
12 Marauders, Full Command, Great Weapons

Special
Furies of Slaanesh
10 Furies

=============================================2000 points

So there you have it. What do you guys think? Just so you guys know, I hate hounds, and I like my warriors at 18... Thanks in advance...

DirtJumper
03-09-2006, 17:56
IMO, you're dropping way too many points into Warriors. In my experience, big expencive units of Warriors just get avoided and subsequently shot to peices. I would recommend dropping some, and getting some speed in your army (like mounted Daemonettes, Merauder Horsemen, Knights, Charriots, etc.) and definatly some Feinds of Slaanesh (in 7th they are even better at tying up units, and on top of that the move 3d6")

TheWarSmith
03-09-2006, 18:08
dirtjumper is right. MSU is the way to go w/ chaos warriors. Either 10 or 12(5 or 6 wide) with great weapons or halberds.

18 gets you 2 ranks, but you're spending SOOO many points on those chosen. 532 poitns and i'll guarantee they usually won't make back half of that. Run them 6x2 with great weapons, shielded by warhounds(they won't test when warhounds eventually run)

Your list is SLOOOOWWW. You need some fast cav or at least some cav. Dwarf armies will simply rip this army to shreds, as will most empire gunlines.

Theadium
03-09-2006, 19:50
IMO, you're dropping way too many points into Warriors. In my experience, big expencive units of Warriors just get avoided and subsequently shot to peices. I would recommend dropping some, and getting some speed in your army (like mounted Daemonettes, Merauder Horsemen, Knights, Charriots, etc.) and definatly some Feinds of Slaanesh (in 7th they are even better at tying up units, and on top of that the move 3d6")
I've never had the opportunity to play in an RTT for fantasy, but I have played quite a few games and am very familiar with the rules. I have had very good results with my warriors, they have never been actually killed in a game, they have either run off the board because of my ability to forget they have a musician, or they get run down by the god damned static combat resolution dwarfs of hell. I have a giant and marauder calvary and a chariot for speed. I hate the chariot, I like the marauder calvary, but I didnt have points (do you think theres a way to find points without ripping out my beloved warriors?) I love my giant, but hes 225 points... Mounted Demonettes I want so bad, but they are excessivly expensive $$$ wise. I dont like knights in my 2,500 point army, they take up too many points in that army, so theres no way Im going to put it into this small list. Feinds are nice and all, but I dont have any spawns.

dirtjumper is right. MSU is the way to go w/ chaos warriors. Either 10 or 12(5 or 6 wide) with great weapons or halberds.

18 gets you 2 ranks, but you're spending SOOO many points on those chosen. 532 poitns and i'll guarantee they usually won't make back half of that. Run them 6x2 with great weapons, shielded by warhounds(they won't test when warhounds eventually run)

Your list is SLOOOOWWW. You need some fast cav or at least some cav. Dwarf armies will simply rip this army to shreds, as will most empire gunlines.
You see, not only do my chaos warriors kill stuff but they dont get killed too quickly (If I dont roll bad) and add to combat resolution. Therefor, not only does 18 satisfy the fluffy number of chaos, but I can go 6 by 3 so I usually get outnumber, and 2 ranks. Not bad along with the kills I get. I personally like my warriors the way they are, sometimes they dont get thier points back (Not talking about the chosen, they are always good 9/10 times) but they will never become uneffective after one cannonball. My army may be slow but you are forgetting I have slaaneshi magic which most of the time will make them either come to me or make them stand still. I have used this lore to a very effective standard before, and I think thats all I need. My plan is to use my furies and my lord to go warmachine/shooter hunting, and the more kills the lord gets, the harder hes going to be able to kill, meaning I can then take on bigger badder units then. Anything else? Thanks for your quick replies

leeoaks
03-09-2006, 20:20
i think the force will work well only against a set few armies. some armies your magic wont work against....for instance my tourney dwarf list will tear that list apart! But my beasts wouldnt do so well! i think the warriors are just not woth it. all you have to do is mangle the chosen and you win...stone throwers and bolt throwers will bring you to your knees. i like the furies but against a clever opponent, they wont do anything. you have 900points in the chosen and lord alot of points for two easy targets! the steed of slaanesh is good but you have no where to put him and three wounds to the steed and he's nullified!

why not use an exaulted champ? give him a great wep and the ward save. He will kill any crew, this allows you to put points into another unit!

Theadium
03-09-2006, 21:30
i think the force will work well only against a set few armies. some armies your magic wont work against....for instance my tourney dwarf list will tear that list apart! But my beasts wouldnt do so well! i think the warriors are just not woth it. all you have to do is mangle the chosen and you win...stone throwers and bolt throwers will bring you to your knees. i like the furies but against a clever opponent, they wont do anything. you have 900points in the chosen and lord alot of points for two easy targets! the steed of slaanesh is good but you have no where to put him and three wounds to the steed and he's nullified!

why not use an exaulted champ? give him a great wep and the ward save. He will kill any crew, this allows you to put points into another unit!

You sent a bolt of fright through me with stone throwers, until I remembered that pesky little dwarfs would need at least 3 to get a shot off at my warriros. I can just screen them behind terrain and furies and marauders! Shooting armies do not stand a chance up against this list, immune to psychology is pretty hard to beat, because shooting isnt that effective. To cripple one of my warrior squads, you need to get about a good 3 direct cannon shots to make them like EVERYONE elses. The fact that some riflers are going to shoot down like what, 2 warriors a turn, doesnt scare me... Im just saying the warriors are solid, the only thing I fear are wood elves...

leeoaks
03-09-2006, 21:46
i'm glad i did! dont post a list then take the lists crit to heart.....kill the furies and the lord and you wont beat a dwarf list. my list would stop the furies flying turn one killing a few, an then you lose a huge advantage....also the orgun guns after firing would leave very little of what you want to put in range. your blocks are too slow to use terrain there will be a round of firing then you loose ranks! cannons are rubbish i agree.....organ guns, bolt trowers and rock lobbers are not! the loss of a single rank off the warriors would make it hard to win any combat....i get 8dd taking a power dice a scroll, your magic...well there is none! and both the warriors and the longbeard unit become stubborn if you charge. and the slayers are well slayers.

Theadium
03-09-2006, 21:59
i'm glad i did! dont post a list then take the lists crit to heart.....kill the furies and the lord and you wont beat a dwarf list. my list would stop the furies flying turn one killing a few, an then you lose a huge advantage....also the orgun guns after firing would leave very little of what you want to put in range. your blocks are too slow to use terrain there will be a round of firing then you loose ranks! cannons are rubbish i agree.....organ guns, bolt trowers and rock lobbers are not! the loss of a single rank off the warriors would make it hard to win any combat....i get 8dd taking a power dice a scroll, your magic...well there is none! and both the warriors and the longbeard unit become stubborn if you charge. and the slayers are well slayers.
Whoa, not trying to fight your army online. Im saying you never can tell exactly how an army will do just on the list, I wanted to know by you guys if the rest of the list looked solid, as experiance and time alone have proven my warriors effective. Thanks anyway for this well thought out... anti-strategem?

leeoaks
03-09-2006, 22:24
its not....you bit at wat i said, i simple wrote back. you rely on a unit of daemons and a lord on steed to get rid of dangerous targets neither is really gonna cut the mustard. the fact is you have 852 points in 36 warriors. i think unless you do something about this weakness, then your list wont do well at a tourney from what ive seen! it wont matter what the rest of the army is or does if your list has as big weakness as yours does!

DirtJumper
04-09-2006, 01:59
And all those preventative measures you stated dont really work. You're gonna screen your units? fine, I'l find mysealf a hill, or "whoops, looks like my guess was a bit too long with my stone thrower to hit your screening Warhounds, I guess it will just have to crush those Warriors behind it." And if you're hugging terrain, they will move even slower up the feild, letting enemy Skirmishers march block you and widdle away untill there is nothing left. And you're going to have to expose yoursealf to those gunpowder weapons some time, and with 3 or 4 whole turns to shoot at you, and leaving you with only a 6+ save, I'm sure you will take more than 1 or 2 casualtys. Trust me, Furies are not hard to take care of, but I will give you one thing. The Lord is a tough nut to crack. Very speedy, hard to take out, and will ruin most shooty units/warmachines due to their lack of static CR, but this is really only an example of why you should make the rest of the list more mobile.

CrimsonFOX
04-09-2006, 03:06
Theadium, why ask for comments if all you are going to do is try and combatively disagree with everything people say? It boggles my mind when people do this. It's better for you to just be quiet and say nothing that to openly disagree in your own thread, it makes people less likely to throw in worthy comments.

Theadium
04-09-2006, 03:57
Theadium, why ask for comments if all you are going to do is try and combatively disagree with everything people say? It boggles my mind when people do this. It's better for you to just be quiet and say nothing that to openly disagree in your own thread, it makes people less likely to throw in worthy comments.

But you see, I am not looking for scenarios, I liked the you need speed comment, but I dont need a turn for turn analysis on how quickly 5 stone throwers will bash my warriors. I'd like to thank you guys for commenting, but I actually wont be able to make it to the RTT due to conflicting plans which just got changed...

DirtJumper
04-09-2006, 04:47
Sorry for kind of rambling on. I just wanted to give a reason for the comment, instead of posting something like "u need knights. They r teh pwnage!" ;) Warriors are good, don't get me wrong, but they need to be backed up by faster support units so they can get to the enemy. The lord and the Harpies are mighty fine for this role against most armies, and you probrably won't need anything else in most situations. However, if you were going to the GT, you can be expecting to face down some pretty stiff oposition, and probrably a Gunline army or two, against which this army would have trouble.

I wasent trying to poo-poo your list too badly (which I admit I did kind of do, but only to back up my opinion.) But I was only doing it because I was trying to help you. :D

TheWarSmith
04-09-2006, 06:03
I think beastmen could do VERY well against this list. Send warhounds out to march block. If you magic them to death, so be it, that's valuable magic just to kill 30 point crappy march blockers.

I'll play my tzeentch list and dispel almost anything that's not irresistable, then I'll cast indigo/green fire on marauders and watch 1/4-50% of the unit die and get held up.

My shaggoth will love to go crunch against the chosen, what with your relative inability to wound him since you don't have great weapons.

Your sacred number is 6, so simply go with units of 12(6x2 is 12).

any type of stone thrower/organ/volley gun will make short work of that.

Anything with a gun line will have clear sight to the warriors for quite a while till they get into charge range, where they will almost always be able to do a stand/shoot reaction.

I'm not saying you haven't had success, but I really think mobility is KEY for slaanesh, and a list with nothing mounted but the lord will pose problems.

corben_da
04-09-2006, 09:46
i'd suggest to take a knight unit for lord. he won't survive alone.
and he will be in CC way too soon than your warriors.
drop chosen to normal unit and take one marauder unit away
to give some space for knights..

Theadium
04-09-2006, 14:48
i'd suggest to take a knight unit for lord. he won't survive alone.
and he will be in CC way too soon than your warriors.
drop chosen to normal unit and take one marauder unit away
to give some space for knights..

Alright, I got an idea with your post here. Im not too fond of knights in this small of a game because in my opinion, they die way too easily for that many points with that few models. So Im going to take 5 plain Marauder Horsemen with a standard bearer to place with/in front of the lord. This will also add a punch to the army that I needed speed wise. Even if I have only one knight left, if they charge a flank, it counts as disregaurding ranks, which is what I want. So the furies, lord and marauder horsemen will tag team up agaisnt immediate threats, and hopefully scaring the enemy into trying to fight them off. The price to pay for it though was taken from my marauders, who now have to worry about just hitting a flank and winning due to combat resolution. Still kind of mad I cant go, but I may get a game in today, I'll tell you guys how it goes if it happens

TheWarSmith
04-09-2006, 14:57
you need US5 to deny ranks with flank charges, so 3 knights/horsemen need to be alive.

5 regular chaos knights are a perfect choice in an army this size, IMO. I run chosen knights of tzeentch all the time(4 strong) with an exalted champion in them, and they always make their points back.

One problem your list has is that there's not attention draw. Many armies have giants and dragons and such, which draw a disproportionate amount of firepower and draw attacks away from your mainstay. Your army is nothing but mainstay and there isn't much of it, so all the fire will go into killing down the lord and your warrior units.

Most armies will be able to magic/shoot the chosen to about 9 by the time they get there.

One thing to go along with your chosen is that you've given them an EXTREMELY expensive equipment set up(additional hand weapon AND shields). That's 108 points on JUST equipment. I'd give them great weapons and shields, which would cut down their points by 54 points(IF you're still keeping all 18).

eldrak
04-09-2006, 15:13
Even if I have only one knight left, if they charge a flank, it counts as disregaurding ranks, which is what I want.

Uh, no.

With only 2 mages i wouldn't count too much on getting many of those nasty slaneesh spells in when they are most needed.

Agree with pretty much with what has been said, don't agree with the ppl claiming you disregard all advices as it seems to me that you tried to explained how you've been playing before and what has happened in those battles. (Would be boring if everyone played the same kinds of armies and the advice people get here often tends to be the same all the time)

With so much points invested in slowmoving infantry you really NEED to get rid of marchblockers so be wary of those.

Theadium
04-09-2006, 15:43
Just so this is very obvious to everyone, when I say I need one knight left, Im talking about one knight being with the lord, they are his little retinue. I want points to fit my giant in, because I love how he is painted, but I dont know where to take them from... Any ideas? Hes 225 points.

I never thought of Chosen having the greatweapons, I went for the 2 close combat weapons for the extra attack, which is nice, but the strength 6 is better. I may if I need some 50 points to get the giant in...

TheWarSmith
04-09-2006, 15:58
1) Your giant can be 205 and work just fine
2)as I've mentioned take them from that chosen point sink.

Theadium
04-09-2006, 22:01
1) Your giant can be 205 and work just fine
2)as I've mentioned take them from that chosen point sink.

I would love to take him for 205, but for 20 points, he gets to be a rockstar and stage dive! :evilgrin: And chosen are too good to deny... :D

metro_gnome
04-09-2006, 22:08
methinks you will have to learn the hard way...

where are the knights?

DirtJumper
04-09-2006, 22:25
Yea, the 20 points for the monstrosity upgrade is almost worth it in itsealf to have him fall where you want him to. It's a 1 in 6 chance, but definatly worth the 20 points if it does happen.

TheWarSmith
05-09-2006, 04:15
having him fall more often can also be VERY bad, as he takes a wound and is then hit automatically. Yes, it's usually worth taking, but in a situation where i could only scrape 205 points together, i'd rather take a plain giant than not take anything.

Ugh, LOWER the point cost of the chosen. nobody is telling you to get rid of them completely, but right now you've got 1/4 of your army in ONE unit.

Neknoh
06-09-2006, 06:18
Heroes
Lord of Slaanesh (370)
Steed of Slaanesh, Blade of Blood, Enchanted Shield, Gaze of the Gods, Pendant of Slaanesh

- A fairly standard and useful configuration.

Sorcerer of Slaanesh (190)
Power Familiar

Sorcerer of Slaanesh (190)
Dispel Scroll

- You are stocking up on 2 scrolls AND a power familliar? Isn't that a tad much? I'd much rather go for a simple Scroll+Power Familliar on sorceror nr 2.

Core
Warriors of Slaanesh (320)
18 Warriors, Full Command, Shield

- These are fine, did you remember to add the cost of the mark into the unit cost?

Chosen of Slaanesh (532)
18 Chosen, Full Command, Shield, Additional Hand Weapon, Rapturous Standard

- You can really drop six of these, adn replace their additional handweapons with hallberds, they really doesn't have to be larger than twelve to be effective and still a multiple of six.

Chaos Marauders (165)
20 Marauders, Full Command, Flail, Light Armor

- The Lightarmour won't do anythin on these guys, it wont save a single marauder from the kind of missilefire that really can damage them, and in close combat, you will want something better than a 6+ save,

This kind of Marauder block is something I am still puzzled that people take, if you want a a suicide unit, drop the Lightarmour from them and buy five more Marauders so that you have a hefty rankbonus and can stand some casualties allong the way.

Otherwise, just drop their flails and get them Shields as well, you now have a sturdy CR generating block.

Chaos Marauders (109)
12 Marauders, Full Command, Great Weapons

- Greatweapons :eyebrows: Why would you want greatweapons on them when you can be almost certain that the enemy will bring most of your front rank down in round 2? Ah well, I guess it could work, but, for flanking, I much preffer the flails.

Special
Furies of Slaanesh
10 Furies

- I'd deffinately drop one or two of these to free up some more points, ten is a wee bit excessive if you ask me.


Now, you'd have points for either a second large unit of Marauders or a unit or Marauder Horsemen with Flails and Musician as well as some Mounted Daemonettes, you really need to speed in this army.

You would also be wise to invest in some Hounds or a Beastherd, even if you claim to hate hounds, you cannot denounce their usage, 30 pts that can take a 100 pts tablequarter or take enough shooting to ensure that two warriors that otherwise would have been shot dead would still be allive. If they have US6 when they reach the opposing lines, the new crossfire rule will make sure that if you run them up behind the enemy units, things will get very nasty, and let us not forget, flanking enemy units is also a great use for throwaway units like these, heck, the hounds can even take out wizards hiding in units, it's not as if you'll miss those 30 pts if the wizard dies or survives.

druchii
06-09-2006, 07:04
Hey guys, I have an RTT I hope to go to next weekend and I want to run my Slaanesh army. Usually I go magic heavy, but I want to try sporting a lord in this battle. Hes not a lord challenger lord, he is to fight off swarms of infantry. So tell me how this list looks...


Heroes
Lord of Slaanesh (370)
Steed of Slaanesh, Blade of Blood, Enchanted Shield, Gaze of the Gods, Pendant of Slaanesh

Sorcerer of Slaanesh (190)
Power Familiar

Sorcerer of Slaanesh (190)
Dispel Scroll

Core
Warriors of Slaanesh (320)
18 Warriors, Full Command, Shield

Chosen of Slaanesh (532)
18 Chosen, Full Command, Shield, Additional Hand Weapon, Rapturous Standard

Chaos Marauders (165)
20 Marauders, Full Command, Flail, Light Armor

Chaos Marauders (109)
12 Marauders, Full Command, Great Weapons

Special
Furies of Slaanesh
10 Furies

=============================================2000 points

So there you have it. What do you guys think? Just so you guys know, I hate hounds, and I like my warriors at 18... Thanks in advance...

Not to be mean, but I'd love to face this army in a tournament setting. I'd call it an easy win.

I think the HUGE issue with the initial list is the lack of "scary" targets, and the support of the single one present.

You've got one(the chosen), two when you include the lord.
Now I won't give you a "play by play" of how I'd neuter the chosen unit, but I think you KNOW that it'd be rather easy.

With only five units, four being blocked infantry, not only is this army looking to be out manuvered but also shut down. Did I menton that my Bretonnian army has almost as many knights as you have infantry?

With 500 pts tied up in a single unit (eek!) you really should use some points to build the army around that unit. It isn't that 18 chosen are a BAD choice of your points, but it seems like the rest of the army lacks the ability to support them.

A few ways to remedy this:
Marauder horsemen are awesome. Fast cavalry is always worth it's weight in gold, and IMO any army can benefit with atleast one unit capable of fleeing charges well.

Hounds: Another option for the "draw" unit. I don't like hounds all that much, but even at 30pts/unit, they're obviously one of the best units for redirecting a charge/sacrificing/quarter contesting. Especially with the new rules and the fact they no longer cause panic tests.

More "tarpit" units. Spawn can be AMAZING here. The sheer ability of a spawn to suck up wounds, and "prepare" a unit for the chosen charge (or protect their flank!) is incredible. Not only that, but 3d6 movement can give you some impressive movement results.

Voss
09-09-2006, 05:49
I've got to agree with a lot of the comments here so far.

You've got a solid infantry mass with some quirks (definitely ditch the light armor on the marrauder unit, it does nothing in against most hits. S 3 may be average, but it isn't the standard).

Trim down the chosen. No way about it. Most armies out there will march block, set up oblique charge reception to take 500 points out of the fight for 2 rounds (plus the minimum 2 you need to get them in combat), or just bog them down in a tar-pit type unit. On top of that you're throwing extra points away with the extra hand weapon and shield. Pick one. Either go for the insane amount of attacks or realize that 13 attacks with a 3+/2+ armour save is probably plenty (particularly for 54 points less!).

Put it this way- almost any army can block your charge lane with a unit thats less than 100 points and way more manueverable, sacrifice it, and they can either set up their own charges on this unit, or just keep it out of the fight.


Second marauder unit of 12. This unit isn't going to get a second round of fighting, assuming that they get into combat at all. Take flails, or beef it up.


Things that aren't infantry-
lord- no support. nowhere to hide from, well, anything. Aside from slaughtering flankers and war machine crews, he isn't going to do much on his own, except die. And thats a lot of points for either role.

And as to the attacking swarms of infantry role you have in mind for him? He'll die. On his own, he just isn't going to break infantry swarms. An opponent with any experience will simple challenge with a champion (which you can't avoid) and match (or exceed) your overkill bonus with ranks, standard and outnumber. 7 attacks to beat a set bonus of 5 isn't good odds.

Furies seem a oversized since they aren't that durable, and have a good chance at losing to dedicated flankers. Or even just plain-jane archers. And just 1 attack each. Slaanesh demands better.


By the way, you're missing 25 points on that second sorcerer. 2nd dispel scroll, or something more interesting?

And yeah, to echo some recommendations:
Mounted Daemonettes. Whee! Fast cavalry with insane movement and 3 attacks. And cause fear. And, fit thematically. Bit fragile, but shouldn't take more than a turn of shooting, even if used badly. And, teh sexy!

Spawn, specifically fiends of slaanesh. Unbreakable. Fast. Cheap (for capabilities). As a pair, capable of a lot, and they will keep pesky things off your flanks.


On paper, this army has a coolness factor. On the battlefield, too many armies will eat it. Pick off the lord and the furies, then shoot the core, while setting up multiple simultaneous charges. Slaaneshi Magic will cause the occassional difficulty, but 7 dice don't provide the overwhelming tactical advantage this army needs to overcome its inherent lack of options. (A mere 6 units aren't enough for tactical flexiblity, particularly when 3 barely qualify as such)