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Kriegsherr
05-09-2006, 15:18
Okay, even though I tried to resist it, when the Eldar dex will hit the shelves near my command bunker, I will have to get some.

Now, while I'm really exited about the amalgam of the old psionic-round-style and a more technological look in the new miniatures, I never was such a big fan of the craftworld fluff.

I consider two possabileties at the moments: Eldar pirates and witchworld eldar. The second is a little bit far fetched when combined with normal eldar minis, I know.

I wanted to know what the general consensus is: Do pirates also use aspects? Do they have autarchs? I don't care about farseers, warlocks, the avatar or wraithlords as I never had the intention of using these. The aspect warriors however are what got me interested in the eldar in the first place.

So how about aspect pirates? Maybe with some Predator-like (the film, not the tank :)) fluff (especially because of the new scorps :))?

what about mutated eldar representing eldar that fled from the witchworlds and now try to keep their souls from falling completly to chaos by adopting the craftworlds ways of war?

They will get a dark and sinister looking paint anyway (no chaos stars though ;)), so please if you have other fluff ideas to expand my outcast eldar idea, share it with me.

Kriegsherr
05-09-2006, 15:48
Now that I think about it, the predator-eldar idea sounds more and more appealing.

A bunch of exarchs that have become to fixated on war and killing and left their craftworld to go unto a hunt for ever new enemies that will last until everyone of them lies dead on the ground, taking their most trusted warriors with them and beeing led by an expierienced autarch.

They wander the webway freely, on a neverending search for new enemies to hunt down and kill. They carry around a lot of trophies of their prey, and their appeareance has become more than disturbing for the craftworld eldars eyes.
The Harlequins watch them closely for any sign of corruption, but haven't taken any action against them yet.
They will return to help protect their craftworld in times of need, and recognize enemies/aliens of great valor and maybe even help them if they are in dire need.
For the only thing they respect is strength, skill, and, most of all bravery... but they are not evil... they never attack the helpless and unarmed, and maybe even help them if that means they can test themselves against a strong opponent.

A well, now where to get cool trophies/skulls to fit unto this hunter-eldar....

AventineCrusader
05-09-2006, 15:52
I like it. I was personally torn between Pirates and Exodites, but I chose Exodites. Would you do other kinds of conversions than just the trophies?

Crusader

Kriegsherr
05-09-2006, 16:45
Hmmmm... good question.

I think they should look sinister and alien, but this can already be achieved with the eldar minis and some dark colors.

Maybe more bling to make them look more fierce?

I thought about making warwalker and wave serpent pilots look like some kind of aspect warriors. Not changing any rules though (especially as its not their ritual way of fighting using vehicles)

Exodites sound also interesting, but it seems like a big conversion project. I only want to go for a small conversion project (I know myself good enough to know it will never end else ;))

Kymar
05-09-2006, 19:34
Generally I think Craftworld Eldar pirates behave just like your Predator-Aspect idea. When not officially at war, the pirate fleets are independent and deal with non-Eldar as prey or even vermin. When the craftworld is seriously threatened the Pirates usually return, but not without alot of beggin' from their kin.

The Saim-Han (Armored & Mounted), Beil-Tan (Aspect heavy mounted) and Aliatoc (Ranger) styles should all fit the pirate idea, just avoid the Avatar and Wraithguard/lord. Autarch might even work as a Pirate Captain seeing that most Eldar Psykers stay with their Craftworld.

Kriegsherr
05-09-2006, 20:07
this sounds great kymar.....

As said, there wont be any psyker or Avatar/wraithanything in my army, so this is no problem.

The Autarch on the other side is a must. But I think if I stick with my outcast aspect army idea, it will be okay to use him. And of course, as a pirate prince he also makes sense.

Thanks for the feedback

AmKhaibitu
06-09-2006, 00:53
Heh, you do realise that if you had a bunch of exarchs and their fellow warriors going off to kill for the sake of killing, that they will fall to khorne, but at least they won't fall to the great enemy.

Kriegsherr
06-09-2006, 11:18
Hmmm.... I think as long as they stick to their ritualised form of fighting, they can keep their minds from beeing taken by khorne. I mean, the ways of the eldar itself are designed to keep them from falling to chaos (and especially to slannesh).

But I think, in the long run its inevitable.... every warrior that starts to fight for the simple cause of fighting will fall to khorne sooner or later.
Be it eldar, man or ork.... a well, orks must havbe been fallen long ago. Maybe khorne just never liked them bacause they are green and not red and rejected them because of this;)

Anyway... the fact that this aspect warband is walking along the thin line between determination and damnation makes the idea even more interesting

Wraithbored
06-09-2006, 11:28
Witchworld? you mean croneworld right? In any way I understand why some people dislike the craftworlders, in any case I hope to see pix of your project!

What I always wanted to do is croneworlders who worship Malal.

Kriegsherr
06-09-2006, 11:52
Witchworld? you mean croneworld right? In any way I understand why some people dislike the craftworlders, in any case I hope to see pix of your project!

What I always wanted to do is croneworlders who worship Malal.

Uuuuuuhh... is it called croneworld in english? The worlds that were consumed by the eye of terror at the fall?

They are called "Hexenwelten" => witchworlds in german :)

Malal... I think everything with the name malal in it sounds interesting. Its kinda sad GW didn't just changed the name and did some image-corrections to avoid copyright problems and went on with using malal... errrrh "The pink space-bunny from hell" or whatever it would be called then ;)

I would really like to do a croneworld army.... but the insane amount of conversions needed to make it look cool, wheter you take craftworlders or darkies as a starter, put me off the idea. I just haven't got the time to waste on such huge projects anymore. So an army with only small conversions (adding of trophies and other "fierce" things) is just the right thing for me...

Wraithbored
06-09-2006, 12:19
Uuuuuuhh... is it called croneworld in english? The worlds that were consumed by the eye of terror at the fall?

They are called "Hexenwelten" => witchworlds in german :)

Malal... I think everything with the name malal in it sounds interesting. Its kinda sad GW didn't just changed the name and did some image-corrections to avoid copyright problems and went on with using malal... errrrh "The pink space-bunny from hell" or whatever it would be called then ;)

I would really like to do a croneworld army.... but the insane amount of conversions needed to make it look cool, wheter you take craftworlders or darkies as a starter, put me off the idea. I just haven't got the time to waste on such huge projects anymore. So an army with only small conversions (adding of trophies and other "fierce" things) is just the right thing for me...
Yep in english they are called croneworlds! But i understand where you're coming from:) .

If you'll do corneworlders perhaps it could be interesting to just mix and match craftworld eldar with Dark Eldar and Dark Elf bitz. Shouldn't be too hard especially with the plastics.

AmKhaibitu
06-09-2006, 12:23
The moment you kill for the sake of killing itself, you open the door to khorne. And it was their soulstones that were the real defence against Slaanesh, the problem is if you show a chaos god the way, it'll take advantage of it.

Still could be fun though.

luchog
06-09-2006, 19:10
Yep in english they are called croneworlds! But i understand where you're coming from:) .
[quote]
Historically, the two terms are derived from a similar source in Germanic/Old English.
[quote]
If you'll do corneworlders perhaps it could be interesting to just mix and match craftworld eldar with Dark Eldar and Dark Elf bitz. Shouldn't be too hard especially with the plastics.
Can this actually be done? According to what I remember of the fluff, the Croneworlds are pretty much overrun with Chaos now. How could an Eldar community manage to survive there, when even the scouting parties that go there in search of the raw materials for soulstones do not always make it out?

Wraithbored
06-09-2006, 22:10
Can this actually be done? According to what I remember of the fluff, the Croneworlds are pretty much overrun with Chaos now. How could an Eldar community manage to survive there, when even the scouting parties that go there in search of the raw materials for soulstones do not always make it out?

The 2nd ed codex sheds some light on the way of the croneworld eldar. And they are among the migtiest servants of chaos.

Surly Marine
07-09-2006, 09:33
There were chaos orks, the StormBoyz of Khorne, they were an interesting idea but dont really fit the newer background.

Spyrle_106
07-09-2006, 11:22
I like the croneworld Eldar idea. Ever since I read the conclusion to the eye of terror campaign, the idea of the Atlansar Eldar has been very appealing. Before we learned there would be no new "craftworld rules" in the codex, I wondered how they could survive for 10,000 years in the eye of terror.

I imagine that that the Atlansar or any Croneworld/Witchworld Eldar could survive only if:

1. They had superior pyschic powers, likley as the Ulthwe display higher proportions of seers and they just hand out near the EOT not in it.

2. They have a sanctuary to retreat to. This could be a Blackstone Fortress/Engine of Vaul, or a detached eddy of the webway, or even just a way to hide from the Chaos. Maybe the psychers can create a dome that hides a small city or even a whole craftworld.

3. They need to have a reason to remain within the EOT. Otherwise they would have escaped. They could be trapped, but that is unlikely. They could stay out of duty to protect a shattered inifinty circuit. Or remaining within the EOT for an obsolete reason for too long, they have found that whatever protected them now forces them to return to the heart of the EOT or perish without defense from she who thirsts.

But all of the above is only my opinion.

Of course I like the idea of Pirate allies for my Craftship eldar. Now I have to decide between counts as Harliquins or Kroot Mercs. I like the no sweeping advances because they will be too busy looting the bodies.... The only question is how I get them a Dark Eldar Raider to ride on...

Spyrle

St.Germaine
07-09-2006, 12:13
I've always had a place in my heart for the Croneworld Eldar and have been quite disappointed to not be able to do them legally in the GW world. There is the Adversary army option from Codex: Daemonhunters but it's only legal against a Daemonhunters army.

I wouldn't let the conversions put you off. They're not needed. I've never been big on the mutations aspect of Chaos. For me the damning aspects of Chaos are on a spiritual level not a physical one. I'm more into the Adonis type Slaaneshi champion who is easy on the eye but is evil to the core. I'm slowly working on a Chaos EC force to complement my Loyalist EC army. The only mutations in this army will be the Possessed marines and they'll all be loyalist. In my view of Chaos, one would never surrender one's "self" in order to be possessed. This is the final fate of captured enemies.

What this all boils down to is go with Croneworld if you want as for me it has more flavor than the pirate concept but is really hard to pull off rule-wise unless you have a group that will allow you to use the Adversary rules against an army other that Daemonhunters. If they will, consider using the Eldar list without Aspects and plus daemons.

Kriegsherr
07-09-2006, 14:03
I wouldn't let the conversions put you off. They're not needed. I've never been big on the mutations aspect of Chaos. For me the damning aspects of Chaos are on a spiritual level not a physical one. I'm more into the Adonis type Slaaneshi champion who is easy on the eye but is evil to the core. I'm slowly working on a Chaos EC force to complement my Loyalist EC army. The only mutations in this army will be the Possessed marines and they'll all be loyalist. In my view of Chaos, one would never surrender one's "self" in order to be possessed. This is the final fate of captured enemies.

What this all boils down to is go with Croneworld if you want as for me it has more flavor than the pirate concept but is really hard to pull off rule-wise unless you have a group that will allow you to use the Adversary rules against an army other that Daemonhunters. If they will, consider using the Eldar list without Aspects and plus daemons.


Yeah, true, the mutation aspect never appealed to me to much too.

The question is, how to set the croneworlders apart from other eldar. The normal craftworlders look... well, to normal. I mean, common, craftworlders and croneworlders were separated for 10'000 years, and the croneworlders are now amongst chaos most humble servants. They should look different somehow.
By adding spikes you make them look like, well, dark eldar!
I would really like to make them more slanneshi, but there is the thing that stopped all my slannesh army projects: Doing slanni conversion right is hard work. And takes a long time.

I think, giving them white skin color and hair (or blue), dark armour and strange eyes would go a long way, but I would have to give up the cool eldar helmets to make this work.... mmmmhh

Atherakhia
07-09-2006, 16:14
Aren't Eldar Pirates Dark Eldar anyway?

axiom
07-09-2006, 16:30
I think the idea of the predator-type pirates sounds really interesting. The added trophies would make a huge jump in the right direction - there's plenty of trophy racks in the catalogues - gorthor the beastlord, the skaven warlord (I forget his name), some of the inquisitor figures, chaos terminators.

If you decide this route, it would be good to make each warrior slightly individual - shoulder mounted shuriken pistols, chainhalberds instead of chainswords, helmet dreadlocks, bareheaded, bare armed, scissorhand type weapons - the list could be endless.

I prefer this route than the croneworld route as I think it's probably a simpler and more effective way of converting a force - the croneworlds are much more open to (mis)interpretation, but with the scorp pred force, it's your background!

Wraithbored
07-09-2006, 16:48
Aren't Eldar Pirates Dark Eldar anyway?

Nope, you see Eldar pirates only travel space and raid on ships and hire themselves out as mercenaries but they do help craftworlds, whilst Dark Eldar are the representatives of the eldar left on the eldar croneworlds before the fall. But Dark Eldar DO resort to pirating.(see BFG where you have Dark Eldar fleets, Eldar Corsair fleet and craftworld fleets ) There I hope that clears it up a smidge :)

luchog
08-09-2006, 01:37
The 2nd ed codex sheds some light on the way of the croneworld eldar. And they are among the migtiest servants of chaos.
Hrm... Looks like I'll have to dig my old codex out of storage.

n00bLord
08-09-2006, 02:59
DAMN YOU! Its all your fault!


Now if this persists (its inevitable) I will have to start some Eldar! Exodites or pirates seem what I want, but please the vortex is dragging me deeper in the want! Stop it brain! Stop it! I don't need eldar!

I'll mostlikely now have an eldar force reasonably soon... How odd...

Wraithbored
08-09-2006, 03:04
Hrm... Looks like I'll have to dig my old codex out of storage.

Page 29 under the crone world article ;)

Wraithbored
08-09-2006, 03:05
DAMN YOU! Its all your fault!


Now if this persists (its inevitable) I will have to start some Eldar! Exodites or pirates seem what I want, but please the vortex is dragging me deeper in the want! Stop it brain! Stop it! I don't need eldar!

I'll mostlikely now have an eldar force reasonably soon... How odd...

Whose fault?

Oh and welcome aboard the craftworld! Enjoy your Eldar army :D

GrimZAG
08-09-2006, 04:31
Pirates... definitely pirates

Jux2p0ze
08-09-2006, 04:37
Agreed. Damn you all :)

As soon as I heard the first rumors that the new Eldar would be out, I set out to paint some Eldar. This sorta ties in with the "who loves Eldar" thread, but this is the one and only army/figure I've never painted or attempted to convert and hopefully by the release of the new 'dex I will have finished a patrol force. A tourney army maybe by christmas.

I also pondered between playing a known craftworld vs. custom craftworld. then scrapped it because my psyche fits more with a piratical eldar. think more like Yriel the once-pirate prince turned Hero of the Iyanden: arrogant, skillful, tormented between homecoming and exile. So that being said, I have some eldar pirate figs WIP. Prince Shi'en, Admiral of the Burning Spear Fleet. I even have a separate log/journal/sketchbook of all my conversion ideas.

but croneworlds...DAMN! I would never have thought of that. To quote those Guiness commercials: "BRILLIANT!"

Anyways for brainstorming, I'd like to pitch in what I have so far.

Exodites: pretty easy, I imagine using a force based heavily on rangers a la Alaitoc. You could use eagle/teradon riders in lieu of jet bikes/vypers, but I would keep some level of tech in there. As for aspects, focus more on the close-combat oriented stuff. I've seen this pulled off 3times before, one were the miniatures done by Agis Neugeberer (sp?) which again are awesome. The other 2 times were Grand Tournament armies which painted Alaitoc forces to resemble wood elves. One could definitely mix up the seers and autarchs easily.

Pirates: more craftworld than you think, my own fluff which I'll have to probably detail in a different section has a mix of English navy in there. Auturch driven for the primary force. heavy guardian base which would resemble your typical eldar sailor and of course 1-2 teams of mariners aka dire avengers. I think for further inspiration flip to page 219 of your Black Codex which is pretty much how my Pirates look at this point. Pix to come.

Croneworld: I think the two best ways are Iyanden or Ulthwe based armies. I agree that the color-choices should look pale with lotsa' wraithbone colored things or have them painted in colors dedicated to the chaos gods. wraithbone and greens for Nurgle, Black/red for Khorne, eyesores for Tzeentch. Stylistically, I think the army shouldn't be too dynamic or action-posed, but more stooped or skulking if possible. I think the hard part is that the Eldar are not mindless devotees like humans are, since they worshipped the Chaos gods in their pantheon ages ago, they should resemble them as such.

If I can get my hands on a few more plastic Eldar parts, I would gladly contribute some conversions/paintjobs to your cause. I can actually *see* them taking form.

Again, damn you for veering me off course. Cheers, brother.

St.Germaine
08-09-2006, 12:34
On those occasions when I've been seriously tempted to start this force, I've toyed with ideas on how to represent them. Given my distaste for mutations, I think I'd stick to just a Slaaneshi paint scheme with lots of Slaaneshi iconography. I'd make use of lots of bits from the Aspects to make the figures look more ornate; not enough to be clearly identifiable as members of said aspect - just fancier.

My personal view is that the vast majority of Croneworld Eldar are aligned with Slaanesh, perhaps 80-90%. For me, the only other god that makes any sense for Eldar to be aligned with is Khorne (worshipped as Khaine). I have nothing documented to support this, just a gut feeling. I just don't see any Eldar under any circumstance stooping to the worship of Nurgle. The Eldar are already known for their psykers so I can't see the appeal for them of Tzeentch that is readily apparent for races with less realized psychic potential.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
08-09-2006, 12:39
I love the pirates aspect, when I do my Iyanden army I'm planning on having Yriel, but also I'm going to do a bodyguard (if he can't have one They;ll just be in his army) of his pirate brethren from his fluff.

I've always been a huge Yriel fan ever since reading all the Doom of the Eldar fluff.

Arrrrr.

Wraithbored
08-09-2006, 12:53
I would like to ask the mods if I can type the Crone World Eldar fluff from the 2nd edition codex in here, I don't know what is GW's policy with abandoned rulesets. So your judging would be helpful.