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View Full Version : Snotlings are now useless in 7th edition



tenpole
05-09-2006, 23:42
So who is going to use snotling bases in a seventh edition game now they are no longer unbreakable. For all the good that it does them they are stubbon but on leadership 4 who gives a %&^&*. All this for 20 points a base. The designers want to phase out snotlings with this kind of ruling. They are no good what so ever. And the same goes for the pump wagon. without being unbreakable it is not worth it. After the first hit if they get there they hardly do any damage with ws2 and s2. I AM VERY DISAPOINTED AGAIN.
In sixth the snotlings are useful as a moving shield.

Sir Charles
05-09-2006, 23:59
They could replace goblins as bait units maybe?

tenpole
06-09-2006, 00:11
The snotling were my bait units.

NakedFisherman
06-09-2006, 00:11
They're fine. 20 points, they don't make anything Panic, and the off-chance that a unit of Bretonnians or some such gets held up by them seems well worth it to me!

If they were Unbreakable they'd crumble.

marv335
06-09-2006, 00:14
you think you've got it bad?
think of skaven rat swarms. three times the price of yours.
or khemri
both in a far worse situation than snotlings since they're far more expensive.

Shimmergloom
06-09-2006, 00:22
I'd rather pay 10pts a base for something that is not stubborn or unbreakable.

I think the stubborn rule is there taking up 10pts a base. Which is what irks.

10pts a base, no stubborn, core, but don't count toward core limits, with a 4-20 base size limit.

unheilig
06-09-2006, 00:30
40 points for a redirection unit?

even if they were 1's across the board, including LD, they'd be worth it.

Peachy
06-09-2006, 01:10
I think tomb swarms are still pretty good - how have they gotten any worse with the new rules?

DarkTerror
06-09-2006, 01:26
Who cares about LD 4? General with LD 9 in the middle of your army... problem solved!

Joewrightgm
06-09-2006, 01:34
swarms function as undead now; IE do combat res, unit tests LD, takes the difference in wounds. (this was stated in WD320)

You won't be able to bog down an elite unit for 4+ turns. You'll only bog them down for 2 or 3.

NakedFisherman
06-09-2006, 01:41
swarms function as undead now; IE do combat res, unit tests LD, takes the difference in wounds. (this was stated in WD320)

You won't be able to bog down an elite unit for 4+ turns. You'll only bog them down for 2 or 3.

That's not how it works.

Also, with the cost of swarms, they're pretty pointless until they get revisited in army books.

Ironhand
06-09-2006, 01:41
So what? 2-3 turns is plenty of time, if you've deployed your army correctly.

Shimmergloom
06-09-2006, 02:51
Who cares about LD 4? General with LD 9 in the middle of your army... problem solved!

Which then makes the stubborn ability useless. You're paying for something that is not worth it and you cannot use if you use the general's LD.

NakedFisherman
06-09-2006, 02:55
Which then makes the stubborn ability useless. You're paying for something that is not worth it and you cannot use if you use the general's LD.

If they lose by five or less it's useless. If they lose by more than five it has a use.

Ganymede
06-09-2006, 03:36
The snotlings fill a role in goblin armies that goblins fill in orc armies. They allow for a redirection unit that doesn't panic the already flighty goblins.

Shimmergloom
06-09-2006, 04:08
a redirection unit which panics and runs off the table after 3 wounds are suffered.

Krusk
06-09-2006, 04:17
People. They don't hold up say, Chaos Knights anymore, but so what? Isn't it a bit silly to assume they could? What are they going to do, slow the enemy down by getting stepped on ? :)

They are still a tarpit, just for normal troops, and to a greater degree, crappy ones. And if they get ignored, they can do nasty things like back stab enemy units that opted to ignore them, and pass by. Before it was almost a no brainer to take em' because you just KNEW you could really take the punch out of that elite unit. having them be weaker is balanced I say. Hell, they might even get some nifty rules in the next army book.

Fredmans
06-09-2006, 06:25
At least they'll be Immune to Psychology :) , and Stubborn on 4 is far better than Insane Courage. Snotlings'll have a 1 in 6 to stay in battle, no matter what. I like the changes, they feel more like snotlings now and have accordingly dwindled into uselessness. Maybe GW saw the problem of Snotling tar pits being "slightly" unbalanced. I'll try them as 40 pts of fun running around the battlefield, trying to stay out of trouble, maybe to protect the rear from fliers and fast cav.

/Snotling lover and pump wagon assembler

neXus6
06-09-2006, 06:48
I love the new changes. Ld 4 and Stubborn is much more fun, not to mention this probably means they are no longer swarms so will not "crumble" and even better they are no longer 0-1 so you can have heaps of them legally as opposed to having to use the old back of the book list. :D
Though a "legal" snoting army would need a few core units of goblin or "snotling big uns" as I'd dub them. :p

jullevi
06-09-2006, 06:52
40 point diverting units are far from useless. Have you ever faced great eagles?

Lordsaradain
06-09-2006, 06:54
swarms function as undead now; IE do combat res, unit tests LD, takes the difference in wounds. (this was stated in WD320)

You won't be able to bog down an elite unit for 4+ turns. You'll only bog them down for 2 or 3.

More like 0 turns.
Say the enemy charges and manages to inflict 5 wounds(+5CR)(thats not unrealistic, is it?). He also has 4 full ranks(+3CR), a standard(+1CR) and outnumbers(+1CR) you. Poof! There goes 15 wounds in a single turn! And seeing how costly swarms are, who fields more than 3 swarms for 180pts? Sure you could take 6, but a 360pts speedbump is a crazy waste of points!

I wish snots weren't immune to psychology... If weren't they could have been used as a cheap and effective bait-flee units.

neXus6
06-09-2006, 06:58
All it means is if your still going to use swarms you can't throw them into fully ranked units, which was always a bit silly.
Oh those 20 empire great swords can't get past 10 wounds of tiny little creatures...

tenpole
06-09-2006, 07:05
Many other armies had swarms and I guess these are going to get the chop. So be prepared. Under the new rules I think the squig herd is 30 points which would be a better hinderance than snotling bases, and when these flee its like the heart of woe magic item from old 4th/5th edition rules. Lots of destruction in an area. It would not suprise me if this squig unit gets dropped when the 8th edition rules come out as with this rule you would be silly not to field this unit as it is such a powerful unit. A unit you want to flee! Well not behind your battlelines.

neXus6
06-09-2006, 07:11
Squig heards have always been a unit you want to flee...inside the enemys battle line. :p
Thing is under the new rules while I am sad at the lost of the (in)famous Squig phase the blast is brutal but with low leadership it could easily do more damage to your own troops. Not that that's something I mind. :D

lord_blackfang
06-09-2006, 07:51
OH NOES YOUR ARMY IS USELESS NOW!!!

I wish my TK and Dwarfs had 40pt speed bumps.

Alathir
06-09-2006, 07:57
WTF NOT TEH PRECIOUS SNOTLINGZ!!!!!!!1111111111111


Seriously, if you think they are useless, dont use them. It never made sense to me that Snotlings, the lowest of the low in Orc and Goblin society, were unbreakable.

Jedi152
06-09-2006, 07:58
Did it never occur to anyone to use the unit just because they like it and it fits in with the background?

Fredmans
06-09-2006, 08:24
Exactly my point. The new army book actually encourages people to include the odd troll and snotling bases. I have always preferred the mixed approach to o & g, not orcs OR goblins, and I'm thrilled by the cheap opportunity to include both a troll and snotlings for 80 points. Two units that both add character to my army as well as give me increased tactical opportunities.

/Trolls to the people

Astromarine
06-09-2006, 08:29
this is news or rumors?

ganymed
06-09-2006, 09:24
I like my snotlings :)
Just take a look at the new swarm rules, as other posters already stated:

Snotlings being no longer unbreakable is a plus because they won´t crumble from combat resolution !!!!

(Else your snotling bases would die in heaps)

As cheap redirection units they are quite fine, immune to psychology makes them reliable (and keeps their fluff part of insane little buggers).
Even 40 / 60 pts of snotlings will reliably flank charge a giant or a dragon, a task where 40/60 pt of skaven/empire/gobbos/orks will easily fail (due to terror and afterwards being outnumbered/lack of ranks).
Just give those poor buggers a chance, give them the insane and suicidal task and they might just surprise you

Let me finish

I still like my snotlings :)

anarchistica
06-09-2006, 12:42
I think tomb swarms are still pretty good - how have they gotten any worse with the new rules?
swarms function as undead now; IE do combat res, unit tests LD, takes the difference in wounds. (this was stated in WD320)
TK Swarms already Crumbled, though many people didn't realise this apparently.

lord_blackfang
06-09-2006, 13:01
TK Swarms already Crumbled, though many people didn't realise this apparently.

About that... I can already see every half-baked rules lawyer I play suggesting that my Tomb Swarm crumbles at double rate now.

TrollTyg
06-09-2006, 13:21
So who is going to use snotling bases in a seventh edition game now they are no longer unbreakable. For all the good that it does them they are stubbon but on leadership 4 who gives a %&^&*. All this for 20 points a base. The designers want to phase out snotlings with this kind of ruling. They are no good what so ever. And the same goes for the pump wagon. without being unbreakable it is not worth it. After the first hit if they get there they hardly do any damage with ws2 and s2. I AM VERY DISAPOINTED AGAIN.
In sixth the snotlings are useful as a moving shield.

Snotlings are one of the coolest things in the entire army, who cares if their rules suck then?
10 snotling bases and 4 pumpwagons in my 2000pts army for sure :D

generulpoleaxe
06-09-2006, 13:45
snotlings haven't been nerfed, they have been brought into line with how they should operate. (luckily for them they don't skirmish.)

if they had gone up in points as well i would be complaining.

Avian
06-09-2006, 13:49
Snotlings are NOT useless. Things they have going for them:

- Cheapest Core unit with enough US to claim or contest table quarters
- Immune to Psychology
- Doesn't cause Panic in anything

If you cannot get something useful out of that, it's your own fault. :p

UltimateNagash
06-09-2006, 16:28
Yep, plus they are great screens aren't they? Or can't they screen. Plus, an army of Snotlings is almost doable - couple of units of Gobbos, and some Gobbo characters, and you have a Snotling Horde!

Avian
06-09-2006, 16:32
Yep, they can screen quite well since they block line of sight, don't panic and are not subject to Animosity.

TheWarSmith
06-09-2006, 16:34
I also saw them placed in front of night goblins to great utility. The enemy charged the snotlings, came within 8" of the night goblins, and fanatics went nuts. Normally you need to roll 8s to get the hit on things that trigger, but with snotlings, you just wail through your own snotlings and get an extra 40mm onto your distance, which is about 1.5" i think, so it becomes 7s that hit, which is a BIG break in your odds.

And when you panic the snotlings, they run away and you either get redirected into or they fail the charge.

DeathMasterSnikch
06-09-2006, 21:20
I also saw them placed in front of night goblins to great utility. The enemy charged the snotlings, came within 8" of the night goblins, and fanatics went nuts.

Somhow I've never thought of that... *Makes notes to move snotlings from flanks to frontline*

I love snotlings (In a non creepy way), I'll be using them in at least a 4 base swarm just because they look sweet.

UrbanFarmer
06-09-2006, 21:53
Who cares about LD 4? General with LD 9 in the middle of your army... problem solved!

Stubborn units are unable to take generals leadership and btw 40pt speed bumps are great since you might pass a test and you might hold ppl down, and even knight units, that is more than worth the points and if they run those units either have to test to stand there or pursue them unless they wipe them out which the only way I would see that is to do 6 wounds with 6 attacks in units with 20mm basing, hard stat wise. Line the snotling bases in line formation make the units have 4 attacks max and they can't wipe them out so they will get to make those tests and put them in front of your units within the distance for fanatics, BOOM 40pts die while fanatics fly, I think thats a perfect trade and there CORE UNITS, idk but if they are 0-1 but I might just buy 2 battle for skull passes and make a gobo army.

lord_blackfang
06-09-2006, 21:57
Stubborn units are unable to take generals leadership

Since when?

samw
06-09-2006, 22:17
I think he means general's leadership for the purposes of the stubbornness.

EvC
06-09-2006, 23:57
I think Lord_blackfang got what he meant, he was just asking since when was did this aspect of the rules exist? I've personally never examined the Stubborn rules in detail before (I play VC!), but they are vague enough such that a good debater could contend that a Stubborn unit may not use the General's leadership in 6th edition, but given the rules mention that a stubborn unit can use the leadership of a non-stubborn character leading the unit, I think it means that a Stubborn unit can use a general's leadership (I'd never stop an opponent from doing so).

TheWarSmith
07-09-2006, 00:49
No, it means that special rules are often conferred to the units they're in, like skirmish, etc, so that a unit with stubborn conveys it to the character.

I can't quote the 6th or 7th ed rulebook, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use general's leadership for stubborn tests. It'd make stegadons REALLY good.

Avian
07-09-2006, 11:33
I can't quote the 6th or 7th ed rulebook, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use general's leadership for stubborn tests. It'd make stegadons REALLY good.
In 7th you use the best Ld abailable, though you can only use the unmodified Ld of a character if he is Stubborn himself (a character does not become Stubborn by being in a Stubborn unit) and in the unit.

samw
07-09-2006, 12:43
In 7th you use the best Ld abailable, though you can only use the unmodified Ld of a character if he is Stubborn himself (a character does not become Stubborn by being in a Stubborn unit) and in the unit.

Sorry Avian, just checking, If I for instance had a LD9 stubborn character in a LD 8 stubborn unit under the new rules what leadership would I be testing on for break tests?

TheWarSmith
07-09-2006, 13:29
Another question for you Avian.

So, you say that I can only use another character(i.e. general)'s ld if he's also stubborn.

Say I have an Ld4 stubborn snotling swarm and they lost by one. An orc general is nearby with his leadership 8(or whatever it is). Can I choose to use the general's Ld8 and test on 7(due to losing by 1) or can I ONLY use stubborn leadership of one kind or another.

Shimmergloom
07-09-2006, 17:45
You must use the highest ld there. Which is the general's LD since it is higher modified then the unmodified 4 stubborn snots.

But the point is still that you are paying points for a stubborn rule that the snots won't be using when they use the general's LD.

And if you use that 4, you have all but no chance of not running.

Stubborn 4 is just bad.

I'd rather have regular LD4 and pay much less points per base for the snots.

TheWarSmith
07-09-2006, 17:53
I'm not sure why they didn't give them the swarm rule. I guess they wanted to represent that unlike other swarms, snotlings have SOME intelligence to tell them to run?

T10
07-09-2006, 18:47
I am going to try them out and then decide. After all, it's not that they were that great to begin with. At least now they can actually get involved in more than one combat per battle (assuming they break and successfully flee).

-T10

The Dark One
07-09-2006, 21:41
I'm not sure why they didn't give them the swarm rule. I guess they wanted to represent that unlike other swarms, snotlings have SOME intelligence to tell them to run?

they didn't have the swarm rules in 6th edition either. i personally like 4th and 5th edition rules where they copied another unit but hey thats proberly just me

Cresistauead
10-09-2006, 20:03
I leafed through the new O&G book and didn't find a mention that characters cannon join snotlings. It used be in the "nobody cares" rule, but it doesn't exist anymore.

A goblin hero with the "heart of woe" equivalent could be in place, perhaps? :)

Neknoh
10-09-2006, 20:29
Hrmm... four units of 30 Night Goblins with Fanatics, Full Command and Netters, two units of 10 Spider Riders and then also 3 Trolls, a Doom Diva (if possible) and loads of Snotlings to march in front of the gobbos.

And all that would have to be bought in addition to splitting two Skull Pass boxes with friends would be the blisters of Snotlings, a few Gobbo characters and then a single Troll.

Or perhaps even split three boxes? Wouldn't have to buy a troll or characters then, would also have another 60 goblins so that I could have 6 units of 30 Goblins, 3 units of 10 Spider Riders, 3 Trolls and a bunch of other goodies from what could be constructed using the leftover sprew frames.

Avian
11-09-2006, 09:01
A goblin hero with the "heart of woe" equivalent could be in place, perhaps? :)
That seems rather stupid to me as he'll most likely kill all the bases he is in contact with when he dies and all those losses count towards CR.




Say I have an Ld4 stubborn snotling swarm and they lost by one. An orc general is nearby with his leadership 8(or whatever it is). Can I choose to use the general's Ld8 and test on 7(due to losing by 1) or can I ONLY use stubborn leadership of one kind or another.
You would use the Orc's modified Ld, since this is better than the unmodified Ld of the Snots.




But the point is still that you are paying points for a stubborn rule that the snots won't be using when they use the general's LD.
How much do you really think they are charging you to be Stubborn on Ld4? I don't think it is a whole lot.




Sorry Avian, just checking, If I for instance had a LD9 stubborn character in a LD 8 stubborn unit under the new rules what leadership would I be testing on for break tests?
The highest (i.e. the Ld9, if they are both Stubborn)

Llothlian
13-09-2006, 12:01
So who is going to use snotling bases in a seventh edition game now they are no longer unbreakable. For all the good that it does them they are stubbon but on leadership 4 who gives a %&^&*. All this for 20 points a base. The designers want to phase out snotlings with this kind of ruling. They are no good what so ever. And the same goes for the pump wagon. without being unbreakable it is not worth it. After the first hit if they get there they hardly do any damage with ws2 and s2. I AM VERY DISAPOINTED AGAIN.
In sixth the snotlings are useful as a moving shield.

Well there goes my Snotling Horde i was gonna buy next month...

1 Night Goblin Hero (Counts as Snotling Hero)
2 Giants
64 Snotling Bases

2000 Pts.

Looks like I wont be getting it now if I can't pile 20 bases in and make the enemy run away without killing a single one. :p

Avian
13-09-2006, 12:05
Snots don't count as the minimum number of Core units in your army, so you need at least three non-snotling core units for that list to be legal.

Llothlian
13-09-2006, 14:07
Read the back of the O&G book, there is a list for a Snotling Horde.

Snot Hero (counts as Night Goblin Hero)
Core are Snotling bases
Rare are Giants.
I think Elites were Snot Pump Wagons.

Thats all you can take. :D

Dosadi
13-09-2006, 14:29
@ Llothlian : But in two weeks that book will be out of date.

I think the snotlings will find a use in almost any O&G army. You can be so creative with them now. They are no longer 0-1 so I plan on using 4 units of 2 bases each. Speed bumps, march block, Frenzy bait, and redirection are all viable tactics for these little buggers. If even one of these units manages to give me the jump on my opponent it will be worth it. I can't see myself going to war without them now. Just shove 'em out infront of your main battle line and stay 8" back from em until the right moment.

Dosadi

Llothlian
13-09-2006, 19:47
If they don't put a snot horde in, they are missing out on a lot of money... I want a 2k snot horde. >;(

Dosadi
13-09-2006, 20:37
It's not there. Get over it. Gw will miss your money I'm sure.
As long as you took 3 minimum sized units of gobbos or orcs you could still do the army. Heck you could take 3 units of spider riders and call 'em snotling spider riders.

Dosadi