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Nurglitch
07-09-2006, 06:46
Hey there,

Having seen the first issue of Firebase, and read the feedback thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47754), I'm curious to know how many people would actually pay a fee to read it. Obviously it's free and will remain so, but given the enthusiasm for Guilder membership around Warseer I thought it would be interesting to see what the price flexibility of the community might be.

I've arranged the poll to indicate how much people would be willing to pay for each issue of Firebase. I've indicated the prices in $US, so please answer with the option that corresponds to the price in your local currency.

xibo
07-09-2006, 06:58
guess it should be priced like or some over white dwarf, but WD should be < $2, because of all the trash we get there.

JeffJedi
07-09-2006, 07:43
I enjoyed the first issue but I would want to see if it can be kept up for a few issues before talk of payment starts. Many things like it die out after only a couple issues (oracle for example.)

Nurglitch
07-09-2006, 07:51
I'm not affiliated with Firebase, so I'm not trying to suggest that this discussion will lead to a price raise on access to Firebase, or trying to suggest that it should lead to a price raise. I'm just curious about how much people are willing to pay for such material.

Now that you bring it up though, I am a bit curious as to whether the permanency of Firebase factors into how much you think it's worth. Would it be worth more because it has a run of fifty issues rather than five?

netpixie
07-09-2006, 07:54
Even charging a small amount for something makes a very large psycological difference both for producers and consumers. If someone gets something for free they view it as being valueless, if they have to pay a small amount they think it has much higher value. Equally, if the writers think that they are going to get paid, they are far less likely to think "Oh, I'll do it tomorrow", with a base of paying customers they know they have a responsibility to produce a quality product, not just once, but over and over again.

I reckon that charging for it is *more* likely to produce a publication that lasts more than a few issues.

Shadowfax
07-09-2006, 08:00
Its a high quality publication, but I wouldn't pay for it. If I'm spending money on the 40K hobby I'd rather put it towards models and supplies, and if I'm spending money on magazines I'd rather have a printed copy.

Also, there's no telling whether or not it will run out of steam, and if it will be able to stay fresh over multiple issues.

All that said, the first issue was triumph. Extremely well done.

Nurglitch
07-09-2006, 08:03
That's an interesting point.

Mind you, Warseer itself has lasted for quite a while now on purely philanthropical contributions. I suspect that Portent might had survived to the present day, had it cut costs more effectively, at the behest of such beneficience. The fact that Warseer's members can enjoy it for free does not seem to affect the site's longevity.

Adept
07-09-2006, 08:10
That's an interesting point.

Mind you, Warseer itself has lasted for quite a while now on purely philanthropical contributions. I suspect that Portent might had survived to the present day, had it cut costs more effectively, at the behest of such beneficience. The fact that Warseer's members can enjoy it for free does not seem to affect the site's longevity.

The difference being that Warseer is essentially just a forum, not a product which needs to be produced to a schedule.

Griffin
07-09-2006, 08:10
I would pay for it, Unfortunately I'm in ZA so it wouldn't be available locally.

Nurglitch
07-09-2006, 08:20
The difference being that Warseer is essentially just a forum, not a product which needs to be produced to a schedule. I'm not sure how those are different things. Could you explain how?

JeffJedi
07-09-2006, 08:45
Warseer posters basicly post what ever they want about the games all the time while firebase is a finished product that should look like it has higher standards than a simple forum.

Both are great but they are two different things. (personally I hope to see more reviews like the Cities of Death/Wooden Terrain they were great)

Edit: Also Firebase PDF can be kept and re-read for a longer time like you would a WD, rather than the always changing threads of a board.

Nurglitch
07-09-2006, 08:56
It seems odd to me that one kind of thing can be held to a higher standard than a different kind of thing. One would think that only things of the same kind could be held to a common standard.

Which is it? (1) The same kind of thing, but at a higher standard, or (2) a different kind of thing, but with different standards?

JeffJedi
07-09-2006, 09:01
I'd say they have different standards, any local yokel can post here but that doesn't mean his article could make it into Firebase.

Warseer is a place to talk about the games, Firebase is a group of polished articles about the game. I don't just press a button and add something to Firebase.

Some guy (UK)
07-09-2006, 16:27
If you made us pay for it, I think that would go against the 'values' of it I think. I've always seen Firebase as a way of showing that something better than WD can be produced by a team in their own time, and not in order to gain money. Thats how I've always seen FB anyway. And for the record, I might buy it, but not over the internet. Not worth the hassle for me.

Later, Some Guy

Gen.Steiner
07-09-2006, 16:31
I simply wouldn't pay for it.

It's an excellent e-zine, but as it's an e-zine I wouldn't pay for it - it's not a physical thing that I can hold in my hands, or browse through in a shop.

FIREBASE (and its Warhammer equivalent, when that gets off the ground) must stay as free 'zines. To do otherwise would, frankly, be ridiculous, primarily for the reasons articulated by Some Guy.

KRakarth
07-09-2006, 17:02
Im sorry, but I wouldnt pay for it. Dont get me wrong It looks great for a fanzine. WD is a great big pile of poop and isnt worth the paper its printed on. The battle reports could do with a few maps to show whats happening but thats my only critisism. THere are already several internet wargaming magazines, its nice that this one focuses on my favourite game. but I still wouldnt pay for it. Mongoose Publishing (makers of Starship Troopers) publishes its own in house magazine. Its a PDF, its better than WD and its free.

Michaelius
07-09-2006, 17:20
I wouldn't pay no matter what the price is - simply becouse i don't have any means of doing it in this pay-pal forgotten country :)
But i don't mind few adverts here and there in the mag.

VetSgtNamaan
07-09-2006, 17:26
I would pay for it. I have not problem with that as long as I get feel I am either entertained or informed by the magazine. I spend 5 bucks on a coffee without blinking so I would the same for Firebase.

Darkseer
07-09-2006, 17:34
FIREBASE will always be free.

It was conceived firstly to fill a niche and provided a service very much in demand. Secondly it was created as a work experience wagon for an array of people following different media career paths.

If you had to pay to read FIREBASE, no one would read it.
Online everything should be free.

However, donations are encouraged (in both cash and bitz) so that we can bring you bigger, better and more imaginative content each quarter.

Marsekay
07-09-2006, 17:37
This is why FIREBASE

lol i think this is an unfinished post???

Darkseer
07-09-2006, 17:40
lol i think this is an unfinished post???

It somehow posted before I could finish what I was writing. It has now been edited ;)

Yorkiebar
07-09-2006, 18:51
I'd say the lower end of the $2.00-$3.99 bracket.

Helicon_One
07-09-2006, 21:10
THere are already several internet wargaming magazines, its nice that this one focuses on my favourite game. but I still wouldnt pay for it. Mongoose Publishing (makers of Starship Troopers) publishes its own in house magazine. Its a PDF, its better than WD and its free.
Signs and Portents started up as a reallife ink-and-paper magazine before reverting to the free PDF download it has become today, and while I've seen no comment on the reasons I suspect that it simply wasn't selling enough (partially because Mongoose is a fairly small company without a following anything like on the scale of GW). I suspect it would be unwise for Firebase to follow suit.

Tim

Hena
07-09-2006, 21:30
It's way too much of a hassle to buy stuff online for me, so I would't pay. Then there is the factor of buying PDF, which I'm not into. And lastly as it is fanzine it would feel wrong to require money from it. Granted if I got a printed version it would be different.

But I'm doing my part to keep it alive and submitting a battle report (should my writing ability be up to the task) ;).

DarkstarSabre
07-09-2006, 21:32
Now, as I sit here with my shifty eyes and busy fingers...

Firebase is a very fine product from its first issue. However part of the reason it has gotten such a positive response is that it is free. The moment you tack a price onto it it loses some of its charm and appeal. It goes from being something brilliant at no extra cost to being something brilliant that costs a bit. The more it costs the less its appeal becomes. After all it's currently a LOT better than some of the more recent issues of WD with regards to 40k but the moment you put a price on it this begins to downgrade....

UnRiggable
07-09-2006, 21:39
The less I pay the better, but you have to congratulate the job these guys are doing and the effort they're putting into this

Axel
07-09-2006, 21:58
I find it difficult to read large pdf-documents - or, for that, and pdf-documents. The design advantage vs. html is usually not worth the extra program. A well made css-document can do almost anything a usual design needs.

So, as it is, I would not pay for it. Its even unlikely I will read the current issues fully. If it would be printed, or in html-format, then I would be willing to pay for it (more on the paper version, for obvious reasons).

Adept
07-09-2006, 22:16
I'm not sure how those are different things. Could you explain how?

Firebase is a success (well, the first issue was anyway) because it has people contributing structured articles to a deadline. According to netpixie, if people were paying for Firebase and the writers were being paid for their work, then the deadlines would be met more reliably and the quality of the articles would be higher and more constant. Paying for Firebase would increase its quality.

Warseer, on the other hand, would be unaffected. If people had to pay to read the forums, they would not feel under any obligation to increase the quality or the quantity of their posts.

I guess the main difference would be that in the case of paying the Firebase writers, the people writing the articles feel obligated to pick up their game. In the case of paying to read the Warseer forums, the people making posts are paying the site for the privilege.

So keeping Firebase free could, according to netpixie, lead to a decrease in motivation. Keeping Warseer free does not decrease the motivation of the posters.

Of course, there is always the donation thing. Rather than paying directly for Firebase, people who enjoy it would donate and the writers could get paid that way. The question then is how effective that method of payment is in motivating staff.

Da Reddaneks
07-09-2006, 22:52
i just hope all those cheap skates out there will cough up a few bucks and use the pay pal donation option to support a very good magazine and the hard work of those who spent a LOT of their own time and money putting it together. (and i have no affiliation in any way, shape or form with the mag or even know anyone who did it)

sulla
07-09-2006, 23:04
Hey there,

Having seen the first issue of Firebase, and read the feedback thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47754), I'm curious to know how many people would actually pay a fee to read it.

Given that I live on the other side of the world and probably wouldn't be able to see the content or quality before purchase, I would have to say I would pay nothing for it right now.

However, build up a reputation, keep putting out quality work and it would be something I would consider buying in the future.

Nurglitch
08-09-2006, 04:36
That's how I suggest that Warseer and Firebase are not so different in kind. They both provide a product that we can consume at our leisure, and encourage for the interest of our future leisure. Hasn't anyone here ever busked before?

starlight
08-09-2006, 04:59
Sadly laptop failure kept my brilliant :angel: article on gaming tables out of the first issue :cries:, however I have enough for the next four issues, so Firebase had *better* not go bust.:p Having managed to retrieve most of the material, I'm working on the few items lost to the gods of technology. The biggest issue right now is sorting through all the WiP shots (up side to a 2G memory card).:D

What I'm hoping is that these articles will provide *value* to readers in the form of ways to have cool terrain for a minimum of cash and then build on that over time (one year). So far I'm on budget for some pretty fine terrain (and happy spouses/parents/roommates) on a 4'x6' table for less than the cost of a Battleforce.

As we progress over the next year, I'll spend more bucks to get bigger, cooler stuff (CoD and those cool wooden buildings). Eventually it will all come together in a huge MegeBattle worthy table.

Hopefully this (well, okay and the other articles...) will keep people reading...

whiteshields1830
08-09-2006, 05:14
No i wouldnt pay for the e-zine. However, if it was presented as a printed hardcopy (much like WD), and with some minor improvements, im likely to buy it for say around $AUS 7.

KRakarth
08-09-2006, 08:05
Signs and Portents started up as a reallife ink-and-paper magazine before reverting to the free PDF download it has become today, and while I've seen no comment on the reasons I suspect that it simply wasn't selling enough (partially because Mongoose is a fairly small company without a following anything like on the scale of GW). I suspect it would be unwise for Firebase to follow suit.

Tim


I concur completely

GrimZAG
08-09-2006, 12:49
I believe it would cost more to the guys behind warseer, to set up everything so that people could pay for the issue than they would make money from it, a whole lot of bother over not much profit, it doesn't make sense.

And i just wouldn't buy it regardless... just because

scramasax
08-09-2006, 19:17
I hate participating to build something that is shared and suddenly see that it turn into a money cow for some people. That's why I would not pay for an issue.

I have in the past participate in various project where everybody were putting some time and sometime money. Because we put resource in those project everybody assume that the group will be able to benefit equally from it and have access to it. Maybe it is because I have a scientific and computer science background where we are used to share a lot because we know that we use the work of other to make it a step further that I think like that. Some people that are more art and writing oriented will try to put copyrigth on everything. I see FIREBASE more as a project that will benefit from having a lot of input from the warhammer community and so should be given back to the community

chaos0xomega
09-09-2006, 03:51
The only way I am paying for it is if it was actually printed on paper, and if the submiters were paid for what was printed(and a good amount too).

On a side note, wouldn't GW destroy firebase if you charged for it?

Chem-Dog
09-09-2006, 04:59
It's an excellent e-zine, but as it's an e-zine I wouldn't pay for it - it's not a physical thing that I can hold in my hands, or browse through in a shop.

Same here, I thought the firebase issue one was superb, but I don't even buy music online, I like to have a hard copy of something I'm paying for, or else I'm paying for mist.



On a side note, wouldn't GW destroy firebase if you charged for it?

They would have to have a good reason, it's a published collection of people's articles about the 40K side of the "GW Hobby" I don't think it technically breaks any copyrights.

But then Lawyers are far better at "technically" than I am.

Zzarchov
09-09-2006, 05:44
if "FIREBASE" (or an e-zine of similar quality) was free online AND had the option to order a hard copy for a few bucks Id buy it for articles I really liked, and imagine it would sell the odd copy, but only because its free and thus everyone can read it and know what Im talking about.

Darkseer
09-09-2006, 07:34
The only way I am paying for it is if it was actually printed on paper, and if the submiters were paid for what was printed(and a good amount too).

On a side note, wouldn't GW destroy firebase if you charged for it?

That's correct. Because it's free, this makes it exempt from copyright infringement.

starlight
09-09-2006, 17:01
Actually, that is incorrect. The cost of the publication doesn't impact copyright/trademark infringement, only whether or not GW's lawyers believe that a violation of the *fair use* (names vary by country) laws. Any publication can use GW's copyrighted terms in reviews of their material or in artcles which support GW products (such as *This bridge is wide enough for a Leman Russ.*) as long as proper credit is given.

GW (and every other author) is required to aggressively defend copyrights and trademarks or they lose the rights to use them. Just ask any of the authors that GW has used stuff from....:(

The reason that GW doesn't go after the free e-zines is two-fold: The mags don't usually last long enough to be bothered with and the negative PR of being seen as a great bully would be pretty severe - especially amongst the parents of their latest customers.

Nurglitch
10-09-2006, 04:52
That was interesting. Thanks to everyone who participated.