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Lordsaradain
10-09-2006, 17:35
A question(I have the 7th ed rulebook):

Situation 1: A frenzied chariot sees an enemy unit, but there is difficult terrain in between, must it charge through and take hits or may it choose not to charge?

Situation 2: A frenzied chariot sees an enemy unit, but there is difficult terrain in between, must it charge through and take hits(cause it is the closest way to the target) or may it charge around the difficult terrain provided that it could still reach the target?

Also, how do you apply this rule when...

...an enemy unit is standing atop a rocky outcrop, within charge range but where a as chariot should not be able to move. Do I have charge straight into the rock or what?

...if a stone wall is between the frenzied chariot and a visible enemy. Do I have to 'charge' the terrain feature...? Say its a small stone wall which a chariot shouldn't be able to get past, but the enemy is visible.

...if a big rock is in between. The closest way(or only way) to reach the target is by getting into contact with the terrain.

...an enemy unit is at the edge of a wood. Is the chariot allowed to move into the wood?

Also, if there is a character in the chariot and the chariot is destroyed, you place him within 2" of the place where the chariot was destroyed.
May the character continue moving?
Could it 'fly' into combat, providing the chariot was within 2" of the unit it was charging when it was destroyed?

Atrahasis
10-09-2006, 17:59
A question(I have the 7th ed rulebook):

Situation 1: A frenzied chariot sees an enemy unit, but there is difficult terrain in between, must it charge through and take hits or may it choose not to charge?A frenzied unit can never choose not to charge, unless the only visible enemy are in a building and another unit is already assaulting.


Situation 2: A frenzied chariot sees an enemy unit, but there is difficult terrain in between, must it charge through and take hits(cause it is the closest way to the target) or may it charge around the difficult terrain provided that it could still reach the target?There is no need for a frenzied charge to be the shortest route possible. A frenzied chariot must charge, but it can charge using the normal chariot charge rules (ie, pivot once before moving, change direction once during charge).



...an enemy unit is standing atop a rocky outcrop, within charge range but where a as chariot should not be able to move. Do I have charge straight into the rock or what?If the enemy is unreachable, then they are not in charge range and so you do not have to charge.


...if a stone wall is between the frenzied chariot and a visible enemy. Do I have to 'charge' the terrain feature...? Say its a small stone wall which a chariot shouldn't be able to get past, but the enemy is visible.Chariots take damage from crossing obstacles. They do not need to cross and obstacle to charge an enemy defending it.


...if a big rock is in between. The closest way(or only way) to reach the target is by getting into contact with the terrain.Again, you do not have to move by the shortest route (except against skirmishers).


...an enemy unit is at the edge of a wood. Is the chariot allowed to move into the wood? Yes. Chariots can voluntarily move into any terrain, so they can certainly do it involuntarily.


Also, if there is a character in the chariot and the chariot is destroyed, you place him within 2" of the place where the chariot was destroyed.
May the character continue moving?
Could it 'fly' into combat, providing the chariot was within 2" of the unit it was charging when it was destroyed?Undefined. Monster riders cannot move at all if their mount is killed by S&S. Only pistol stand and shoot reactions can cause this anyway. I don't see why they could not charge, as they are charging and have made contact with enemy.

mageith
10-09-2006, 18:52
There is no need for a frenzied charge to be the shortest route possible. A frenzied chariot must charge, but it can charge using the normal chariot charge rules (ie, pivot once before moving, change direction once during charge).

I don't think so...
Chariots: "This means they can either pivot and then charge in a straight line, or move directly forward, stop to pivot towards a different direction and then complete their move in a straight line." (62)



Chariots take damage from crossing obstacles. They do not need to cross and obstacle to charge an enemy defending it.

They still take damage.
OBSTACLES AND TERRAIN: "Apply these thits immediately as the terrain/chariot touches the terrain/obstacle." (62)

Atrahasis
10-09-2006, 18:58
I stand corrected.

mageith
10-09-2006, 19:04
A frenzied unit can never choose not to charge, unless the only visible enemy are in a building and another unit is already assaulting.

I think there is another exception. It's not new.

An enemy can still be visible (and close enough) but its entire legal frontage/flankage is blocked to the chariot.

Festus
10-09-2006, 19:12
Hi

... and *visible* surely is not the best terminus technicus here...

Greetings
FEstus

mageith
10-09-2006, 19:22
Hi

... and *visible* surely is not the best terminus technicus here...

Greetings
FEstus

The chariot rules define "charge reach": "...within the unit's charge move and their [sic] normal arc of sight..." (52)

Atrahasis, I assumed, was assuming charge reach was OK per the original question, as am I. After all, it is frenzy and the charge is pre-measured.

"Situation 1: A frenzied chariot sees an enemy unit, but there is difficult terrain in between, must it charge through and take hits or may it choose not to charge?"

Lordsaradain
11-09-2006, 19:39
Also, if there is a character in the chariot and the chariot is destroyed, you place him within 2" of the place where the chariot was destroyed.
May the character continue moving?
Could it 'fly' into combat, providing the chariot was within 2" of the unit it was charging when it was destroyed?

Anyone know the answer to this one?

Atrahasis
11-09-2006, 19:49
A character on a chariot can indeed continue into combat.

The only caveat given against moving after S&S is if a MONSTER is killed that the character happens to be riding.

If the character is riding a chariot, he follows the normal charge rules.

Lordsaradain
12-09-2006, 15:35
Well, My question was abit blurry...

Imagine a character in a chariot declares a charge against a unit but there is difficult terrain in between the chariot and the enemy.
If the chariot is destroyed from the D6 S6 hits caused by moving into difficult terrain you place the character within 2" of the place where the chariot was destroyed, according to the rules. Now here are the questions:

May the character continue moving after jumping clear of the wrecked chariot? May he continue his charge?
Could he 'fly' into combat, providing the chariot was within 2" of the unit it was charging when it was destroyed?

Festus
12-09-2006, 16:18
Hi

May the character continue moving after jumping clear of the wrecked chariot? May he continue his charge?
As the rules stand: Yes, he even must do so, as a charge was declared. Remember that he will now have less Movement, though.
A Monster-riding charater will not be able, though.

Could he 'fly' into combat, providing the chariot was within 2" of the unit it was charging when it was destroyed?
Yes, as he is still charging, he is allowed to make contact with the enemy unit.

Festus

Lordsaradain
12-09-2006, 20:43
Thanks Festus!

I was planning a few savage orc big bosses in chariots but then I realized what doom the new rules can spell for frenzied chariots if my enemy has any kind of skill...

I'll have to make sure that there is very little difficult terrain if I'm to field a frenzied savage orc boss. Still it's good to know that even if my luck is poor, at least the boss will proably still make it into combat, without his ride. And besides D6 S6 hits dont necessarily have to kill a chariot... :P

GodHead
13-09-2006, 02:34
I would say that by going by the Slain Riders or Mounts rules, the character would not be able to continue his charge:

"If a stand & shoot reaction kills the mount during a charge, the model is replaced by a foot version of the rider and the model does not move at all, as the rider frees himself from the monster's harness."

I realize the above quote applies to monsters and stand and shoot reactions, but I would consider the two situations analagous.

Festus
13-09-2006, 04:44
Hi

But they are not analogous as the rules stand:

In one case you grawl out under the monster, in the other you are thrown by the chariot up to 2"

Festus

GodHead
13-09-2006, 04:50
Yes. I totally missed that bit. My apologies.