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Zephro
10-09-2006, 20:53
Ok more of a question and a ramble really.

Basically my group of friends have basically all given up on 40K, largely to do with the 3rd and 4th edition rulesets. Partly the cost, but we all pick up the odd specialist and fantasy models so it's not really that.

Anyhow we got thinking during the summer that 4 of us have 3,000 point armies just sitting around collecting dust. Some of us even more. Which seems a tad wasteful. Now we could go back to playing 2nd edition as we still have the books and cards, but that's not exactly appealing. I did love it at the time but 2nd ed was kind of bloated and didn't have any army structure. I quite enjoyed the zaniness of it though, SHOCK ATTACK GUNS YEAH! _

So has anyone ever written an alternative set of rules fo 40K?

I think there'd be room for GW to do it as part of specialist games, as you'd only really need an extra rulebook. The models are already there, and hopefully for them they could draw back in a bunch of players who have left. Though if you did that you'd have to be careful about a name, as I'd call it "40K tactics" or "Advanced 40K" which might be a bit emotive _ Still you could call it "40K for anal ****ers with lots of times and who like a bit of depth in their games".

Second part. Some suggestions of the kind of things I'd like to see, it's not like a strict well thought out list but a vague ramble. Ok so I'm a bit of a history buff so I'd like it to be more like a WW2 game, kind of like Combat Mission, but still stream lined. No horrific angle of penetration tables.

Make tanks dominate the battlefield more. Plus make some of them make sense, like the Leman Russ' main weapon ought to have AP and HE rounds. And so on. This isn't to take the focus away from infantry, but to make them respect cover and to actually have to bother trying to outflank tanks and shoot them up the ****. Which would also involve redoing infantry AT weapons. Things like AT guns being brilliant and cheap but basically imobile. Rocket launchers needing to get close and maybe hit the enemy up the ****.
Just remove the emphasis on hand to hand combat (except for Nids n Orks and so on). Seriously I know about the STC stuff but in a universe brimming with automatic weaponry charging over open ground at people armed with it is a bad idea. It should have a role more to do with shock attacks and breaking routers or in out flanking manuevers.
Morale out to be a bit more well there. Like being able to force squad leaders to withdraw because they're outflanked and so on. Or to add a bit of command structure like a chain of command.
things moving at different and not random speeds.
the armies having a bit more feel to them, kind of coupled with the speeds. But I find alot of the differences are cosmetic. I'd have Tau or Orks and Imperial Guard as the default armies. Plus having things match the fluff, so have Space Marines as epic supermen, but make them rare. So say a tactical squad could easily be used to change the course of a battle. Or eldar using more hit and run tactics and trying to desperatly avoid casualities. Orks and Nids just running like nutters at the enemy
cover and armour. infantry ought to stick to cover and need it more.
still maintain things like army structure but maybe make things more like the guard list with platoons and so on.
keep the game streamlined.


Now it's just a kinda of vague general idea. So there's not much point quiblling about whether you think current 40K is fine or my ideas suck or whatever. But what does everyone think about the general idea? I think it ought to be possible as I've seen the kind of rewarding tactics in fantasy and the specialist games, I just don't get it out of 40K. I'd never suggest replacing normal 40K with this as I basically get that there's just no market for it.

Frecus
10-09-2006, 21:02
Here's a way better idea (IMO):

1-Get out there.
2-Find a bunch of players highly interested in this.
(Ok, granted, you're trying these steps)
3-Set up a website.
4-Set up Net40K. A bit like the guys did with NetEpic. A fan-based game that resembles the original game and uses its universe, but is definately not.

In the case of NetEpic, I like E:A more, but as I'm not too fond of 40K as it is, I'd be all for such a project, and wouldn't mind sharing my notes on what I already did on such an idea.

Yes, I already worked on it. Never tried, but still. The rules I picked from a mix of the WHFB rules, the 40K rules and the LotR rules.

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

shveen
10-09-2006, 21:33
I would definatly give it a go. You would have to make quite feasable or people would probably not take it on board, but you have to remember that the actual gaming is completely different to the background, so bear that in mind.



shveen

Zephro
10-09-2006, 21:43
I was thinking of giving it a go myself. I was curious what other people thought would be good, also checking if anyone happens to have done all the work already. No point reinventing the wheel.

Plus being a grown up now work and my girlfriend takes up more of my time.

Indrid Khold
10-09-2006, 22:00
A few points:

1) Space Marines are already balanced according to fluff. Propoganda isn't reality. Space Marines can die, and do every day.

2) Tanks do'nt dominate the battelfield because in 38000 years people figure dout how to pack effective mobile weapons systems into things that weren't giant fire magnets.

3) Isn't your proposal sort of the opposite of "keeping the game streamlined?"

Just some things to think about.

You do have a point about adding in the different movement rates and scaling down close combat, though.

Zephro
10-09-2006, 22:17
Streamlined is a relative term.

Plus the tank arguement is raging elsewhere. ;)

Christine
10-09-2006, 22:23
I`ve been known to write rules now and again, my last set and one I keep on coming back to is squad based rules set during the Horus Heresy. BTW this post was written on a PSP, it`s good to know Warseer works on it!

Zzarchov
10-09-2006, 22:30
a good start might be just including more and more house rules, Ie start by incorporating fantasy pyscology rules (like panic for starters), new vehicle damage rules (perhaps a different table for different weapons like melta weapons, flame template weapons, lance weapons, blast weapons, melee weapons), maybe make any weapons with a RoF of three shots or more per turn cause pinning if your not in cover (what machine guns are really used for)

TheHereticsPaintbrush
11-09-2006, 00:09
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kpavlick/ww2/ww2rules.htm I like these rules, plus we have some of our own as well

GrimZAG
11-09-2006, 10:17
To me those ideas turn 40k into a "fantasy with guns" kind of game, but if that's what you want then go for it

KRakarth
11-09-2006, 10:28
There are other 40k ww2 rulesets as well, which are worth investigating. THese will give you some more ideas too.

Frecus
11-09-2006, 11:54
Nurglitch, Dark Milennium might be set in the same universe, but is so different from 40K and WHFB, that it is just too different to replace it (IMO).

So, taking 40K, and moulding it would be my first choice as a) it needs less learning of new rules, and b) feels more 'like home'.

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

Zephro
11-09-2006, 16:20
To me those ideas turn 40k into a "fantasy with guns" kind of game, but if that's what you want then go for it

The stuff I said? :eyebrows: I thought alot of the ideas were kind of taking it away from fantasy with guns.

Oh and good point on the pinning whoever said it.

(Evil)Ash
11-09-2006, 19:04
You might wanna look into Gorka Morka, from what I remember that was sortof the bridge between 40k 2nd ed and the 3rd.

but personally I think the rules are fine, GW just needs to plug a few holes (through Q&A or chapter approved) and release the rest of the awaiting 'dexes (Orks, Dark Eldar etc.) before they start thinking about doing stuff like another chaos Codex. but I guess they're just too bloody arrogant :rolleyes:

greetz,

Zephro
11-09-2006, 19:25
Gorkamorka was just 2nd Edition rules with simpler vehicle pentration. But that's because there were only light vehicles in it.

Plus they all had big red buttons :D

Sybaronde
11-09-2006, 19:33
I attempted to adapt the 40k rules towards a premise that in my oppionion takes realism more into account. It certainly is different, but similar still. Link to the rules can be found in my signature.

Frecus
11-09-2006, 20:19
No, I haven't, but as far as I can see, it has a totally different line of stats, a much greater focus on troop quality and morale, a totally different turn sequence, and I can go on.

What I was writing wasn't a whole new game, as you and sybaronde wrote, but more like a mix of the games, which uses most of the rules already there, and nothing more or less than WHFB's 9 stats. Plus, saves etc work the same.

Frecus
The glade wanderer
Madwarrior

Dav0r
11-09-2006, 23:14
Just in case you don't know of No Limits : http://www.wargamesunlimited.com/nolimits/index.html

It may (or might) be used as an alternate to wh40k.

n00bLord
12-09-2006, 02:32
You could just set them up and make shooting noises and tip over models you see fit as casualties. Game has been simplified and its in its quickest form here. Enjoy! I am being serious by the way.

Sybaronde
12-09-2006, 18:13
What I was writing wasn't a whole new game, as you and sybaronde wrote, but more like a mix of the games, which uses most of the rules already there, and nothing more or less than WHFB's 9 stats. Plus, saves etc work the same.


Close Quarters is closely linked to Warhammer 40,000, but with a few exceptions, which are notably adaptions from other games like Flames of War, Inquisitor and Epic. As Nurg' commented his own Dark Millennium, it's not the most innovative game on the block.

I'm sure once a guy looks through the rules on that game, they'd recognize a lot of stuff from 40k.