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Brimstone
24-06-2005, 21:21
I've recently acquired bits of Black Templar rumourage from various sources,


As per the previous list BT's do not get Librarians or Devastator squads.
Sword Brethren are said to be Elite choices and may use Terminator or power armour.
Tactical squads are known as Crusaders and may take as many neophytes as there are initiates so you can have a 20 man tactical squad.
Emperors Champion has been reworked and is supposed to be optional under 750pts.
Land Raider Crusaders can be taken by HQ, Elite or Troops choices as transport in addition to being Heavy Support.
Drop Pods are available.
New bits of wargear including extra stuff for Crusaders and Holy Orbs of Anitoch a thrown grenade with a five second fuse no more, no less. :p
New type of Servitor for Templar Chaplains
Sword Brethren under certain circumstances can take various types of shields
Possible reworking of Righteous Zeal so you have to fleet towards the nearest enemy if you fail a test following casualties



More rumours to come.

t-tauri
24-06-2005, 21:28
New bits of wargear including extra stuff for Crusaders and Holy Orbs of Anitoch a thrown grenade with a five second fuse no more, no less. :p

Watch out for the rabbit. He's dynamite! [/Python]

Interesting stuff. Templars are starting to attract my attention. Twenty strong squads? Someone's been fighting Ork mobs for too long.

I'm not surprised by the shield options as this fights the Crusader ethos quite nicely.

Brimstone
24-06-2005, 21:37
They are very themed towards close combat with rules benefitting them while in combat.

Witch Hunter
24-06-2005, 22:22
Any info on if any of the shield options might be new? (not standard storm shield, combat shield, etc.)

Any hints as to what circumstances allow for the different shield options?

Black Mage
24-06-2005, 22:25
Prepare to commence drooling
Preparing to drool aye sir!
Commence drooling
Drooling aye sir!

These rumoured changes reflect the style of the Black Templars quite well, and I'm pleased to see them, rumours or no. I am curious to see what the function of the Chaplain servitors are, perhaps they have psychic hoods? :cheese:

And at least the DP debate will be put to rest.

axels15
24-06-2005, 22:37
"Its just a Rabitt!"
"yes, but it has sharp, pointy teeth"
:chrome:

seems like itll stop people from complaining about them, hopefully...

dienekes96
24-06-2005, 23:53
To add a bit of speculation to Brim's rumors, the picture at the Cry Havoc event showed a Chaplain with two or three of the new servitors...they seem ZEALOT-based, like Empire flagellants or something similar. One carrys an aquila on a chain over his shoulder...think religious nuts made into servitors. Bingo. I can't wait for them.

Talking to Pete Haines at the GD, he didn't say much, just the Chaplain news (there will be more than 1, including the Terminator). Someone at Dakka claims to have seen the Termi, but gavce no details, except to say he was fiddly. Hopefully the Chi-town GD in five weeks will yield the first big rumor/image dump for the BT's.

I like what I am hearing...I expected to. I like the idea of the Crusading BT's.

Take care,
Chuck

EmperorsChamp01
24-06-2005, 23:55
Oh yea those are the kinds of changes i can live with. Oh man not i cant wait till the codex comes out

MoonFever
25-06-2005, 05:12
I heard somewhere (I think Dakka) that the vows will cost points now...

x-esiv-4c
25-06-2005, 05:26
Looks pretty cool, tell me you were joking about the holy hand grenade right?

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
25-06-2005, 05:31
As a BT player I'm eagerly awaiting the release of the new Codex.

There rumours all sound good, nothing bad there at all.

A little confused about the crusader as transport option and heavy support thing, I thought that it already was that.

Brimstone
25-06-2005, 05:41
To add a bit of speculation to Brim's rumors, the picture at the Cry Havoc event showed a Chaplain with two or three of the new servitors...they seem ZEALOT-based, like Empire flagellants or something similar. One carrys an aquila on a chain over his shoulder...think religious nuts made into servitors. Bingo. I can't wait for them.

I think that may be a new special character Chaplain Grimaldus and his servitors that carry relics from a temple.

I believe the servitors are actually failed initiates so may be partial Space Marines, they have some effects to the Righteous Zeal rule.


Any info on if any of the shield options might be?

Just a choice of storm or combat for elites and storm for fast attack although my information is not complete on this.


I heard somewhere (I think Dakka) that the vows will cost points now...

Correct and there are only four now.

- Accept the Challenge, no matter the odds.
- Uphold the honour of the Emperor.
- Suffer not the unclean to live.
- Abhor the Witch, destroy the Witch.


tell me you were joking about the holy hand grenade right?

Nope, it's a pretty cool piece of wargear and will be fairly popular I think.


A little confused about the crusader as transport option and heavy support thing, I thought that it already was that.

Nope, check the new Marine codex and the Crusader is just a heavy support choice and is not listed under transport vehicles.

EmperorsChamp01
25-06-2005, 05:42
The crusader might be now. It wasnt in the old BT codex.(I personally dont own a copy of the new SM codex)

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
25-06-2005, 05:48
I got confused, now I understand. I just read it as being as it is now (buy it as a heavy support but can transport another unit).

That's a huge change, gives the BT's more access to land raiders than any other chapter other than Deathwing.

x-esiv-4c
25-06-2005, 05:52
That holy-hand-grenade alone will coerce people to play BT :) I think it's a funny idea, I wonder if they are going to pack some fluff behind it.

Brimstone
25-06-2005, 05:56
That holy-hand-grenade alone will coerce people to play BT :) I think it's a funny idea, I wonder if they are going to pack some fluff behind it.

For sure, the Templars as you would expect are a very very religious chapter and this theme runs very strongly throughout the codex rules, background and wargear.

EmperorsChamp01
25-06-2005, 06:02
Yea but then they would be a joke army. I can here the little kids now"oh i use the Bt's holy handgranade" It would make a mockery of the BT. I think it would N E WAYS

Brimstone
25-06-2005, 06:28
Yea but then they would be a joke army. I can here the little kids now"oh i use the Bt's holy handgranade" It would make a mockery of the BT. I think it would N E WAYS

Just because they have one piece of wargear with a in-joke to monty python doesn't make them a joke army, far from it.

Black Mage
25-06-2005, 07:38
Doesn't matter to me anyway, the supreme coolness of being able to use the holy hand grenade is well worth it. BTW, wasn't it three seconds?

Inquisitor Maul
25-06-2005, 11:14
And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.' - Armaments 2:18-21



Sorry, couldn't resist :D

Bozzeh
25-06-2005, 11:19
I'm eagerly awaitting the new BT's. I probably won't use the army but the things the army is bringing along (plastic scouts, assualt termies) are thing I really want.

de Selby
25-06-2005, 13:15
So thrown grenades are making a comeback, as special wargear. This fits in with something Pete Haines once said about keeping the core rules as simple as possible and introducing more actions as special rules for particular units. We already have IG with Demo Charges, I suppose.

What's this Cry Havoc picture? Is it on the boards somewhere?

*is ignorant*

Rabid Bunny 666
25-06-2005, 13:22
New type of Servitor for Templar Chaplains
Sword Brethren under certain circumstances can take various types of shields
[/list]

More rumours to come.

chaplains didn't get servitors ;)

and i just converted some veterans for my BTs with large shields :D

dienekes96
25-06-2005, 14:10
Brimstone,
That sounds right. I didn't see the picture (and it's not on the net)...I just had it described to me by a friend. I assumed the servitors might be failed initiates...makes sense. I love the idea of the servitors though.

Any word on that special character, and who else is available?

Thanks for the first deluge of rumors...months away, but I like getting excited about new stuff,
Chuck

philbrad2
25-06-2005, 14:34
I've recently acquired bits of Black Templar rumourage from various sources,


.
New bits of wargear including extra stuff for Crusaders and Holy Orbs of Anitoch a thrown grenade with a five second fuse no more, no less. :p


More rumours to come.

GW with a sense of humour .. who'd have thought it ...

http://www.leisuregames.com/acatalog/monty_python_holy_hand_grenade.jpg

A Reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20: (slightly reworked for the 41st millenia) :angel:

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Emperor, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the Grox and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Divine Emperor say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."



They are very themed towards close combat with rules benefitting them while in combat.

Perhaps then my beloved BA will get a reworking to move them aware from their frothing "did you spill ma pint?" personas of 3rd ed and make them more like their tragic heroes background.


:chrome:

Black Mage
25-06-2005, 16:40
Ok, that's it, i'm sigging this. I now have a good basis for which to do it too.

I'm guessing Sword Brethren will be sort of like the Honour Guard for the Ultrasmurfs, but if what Brimstone says is true, then theoretically, they'll be able to take Terminator armour with lightning claws and thunderhammers. Assault terminator command squads seem feasible. And getting to ride around in a Crusader as a transport? :D

The shield idea sounds great, can't wait to see the effects of that. Man, I just can't wait all round.

philbrad2
25-06-2005, 16:57
I'm guessing Sword Brethren will be sort of like the Honour Guard for the Ultrasmurfs, but if what Brimstone says is true, then theoretically, they'll be able to take Terminator armour with lightning claws and thunderhammers. Assault terminator command squads seem feasible. And getting to ride around in a Crusader as a transport? :D

And of course Dark Angels wouldn't think of having mixed squads or assault equipped Termi command squads watch this space methinks! :rolleyes:

Undoubtedly the Sword Bretherin will be a costly unit if in termi armour.

:chrome:

t-tauri
25-06-2005, 17:18
I'd fancy Sword Brethren as Termies with powersword and storm shield as that would fit the Crusader image quite neatly, though they'd have to do a metal powersword arm unless it's an add in to the plastic termie assault weapon sprue.

MoonFever
25-06-2005, 17:42
The servitors should carry around large planks and beat themselves in the head with them while they chant and march into combat...

As long as they don't have a wargear called "shrubbery", I'm down with what i've heard so far....

Gaebriel
25-06-2005, 18:02
Must. stay. blue. Must. stay. blue.

Wow this sounds pretty good, especially the Land Raider Crusader Convoy thing - I understood that right, three Crusaders as Heavy support choice, and up to one as transport each squad? :eek:

Jonathan =I=
25-06-2005, 18:25
Thats 14 Land raider crusaders for those playing at home.

At a minimum cost of 4705 points I think.

Avian
25-06-2005, 18:42
They are very themed towards close combat with rules benefitting them while in combat.
Will this be of the type:
"Units you would want to use get a bonus or become mandatory, while units you would not want to use anyway get a disadvantage or are disallowed"? :D

MrAhrens
25-06-2005, 23:26
The servitors should carry around large planks and beat themselves in the head with them while they chant and march into combat...
The plank-to-head-zealots were a funnier version of the middle age's fragellants, and ordo hereticus already have them. So it's just for you to convert 40k fragellants to have planks. "Planks of doom!" :p

Ruskins
26-06-2005, 00:35
And of course Dark Angels wouldn't think of having mixed squads or assault equipped Termi command squads watch this space methinks! :rolleyes:

Undoubtedly the Sword Bretherin will be a costly unit if in termi armour.

:chrome:

GIVE US BACK OUR MIXED SQUADS!!!

sorry couldnt resist.


p.s DW temie = 45pts GK termie = 46 pts. that is not right


Personally i really like the idea of BT's 'recycling' failed initiates into crazy servitors or some sort, they dont have the time to recruit that other chapters do due to their hectic schedule of smiting.

Rabid Bunny 666
26-06-2005, 01:03
could work out like chosen in chaos though

philbrad2
26-06-2005, 01:57
Personally i really like the idea of BT's 'recycling' failed initiates into crazy servitors or some sort, they dont have the time to recruit that other chapters do due to their hectic schedule of smiting.

Isn't that part if the IA background fluff? I've read in several 40K books/codices about failed Aspirants being mind wiped to be used as Servitors. IIRC the 2nd ed SW codex featured the Fenrisian Thralls, failed Space Wolves who become almsmen and retainers for the Fang and the chapter.

:chrome:

Ruskins
26-06-2005, 02:06
in most chapters failed subjects go on to become attendants of the chapter, assuming they dont become horribly mutated or go insane, most of the time they just tend to the needs of the marines, prepairing wargear, maintaining facilities, crewing starships. Obviously BT's being total nutters they feel the need to mind wipe failures and replace half thier body with an oversised can opener.

MoonFever
26-06-2005, 04:43
Obviously BT's being total nutters they feel the need to mind wipe failures and replace half thier body with an oversised can opener.


Never know when you may need a "hand" with opening that can of spam (spam,spam,spam, spammity spam...)

Maybe it's just those that failed spiritually, and not physically. Those that failed but have the spiritual gumption to stay true to their creed probably still man the starships, etc. Those that end up moralistically questionable are the ones that end up as mobile appliances...

LimeLord
26-06-2005, 17:00
do you think that thier assault squads will still get two power fist/wpns and get storm shields? cause i jsut converted like 2, 7 man squads of them and i don't wanna tear 'em all apart

Rabid Bunny 666
26-06-2005, 17:02
i'd say so, otherwise my squads will be more illegal than a pre-teen orgy :evilgrin:

XaNder
26-06-2005, 21:21
GW with a sense of humour .. who'd have thought it ...

http://www.leisuregames.com/acatalog/monty_python_holy_hand_grenade.jpg

A Reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20: (slightly reworked for the 41st millenia) :angel:

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Emperor, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the Grox and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Divine Emperor say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

ROTFL
2kewl, philbrad!!!
XaNder
P.S.: could not use smilies!?!

Brimstone
26-06-2005, 21:39
ROTFL
2kewl, philbrad!!!
XaNder
P.S.: could not use smilies!?!

You barely used English as well. :rolleyes:

More rumours this time on the Emperors Champion, his Iron Halo has been replaced by a more unique "Armour of Faith" freeing up the Halo for someone else (one per army), the Black Sword is just a Power weapon now (no more Power Fist setting apparently) but it does add to his Str. His challenge ability is now mandatory.

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
26-06-2005, 23:14
Challenge was a really cheap move at times I found. Getting assaulted by 30 models and then only fighting one sergeant, chopping him to bits and winning the combat annoyed a lot of opponents. I do it all the time.

Hopefully making it mandatory will help balance it out for when you face those REALLY good characters.

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 01:28
Challenge was a really cheap move at times I found. Getting assaulted by 30 models and then only fighting one sergeant, chopping him to bits and winning the combat annoyed a lot of opponents. I do it all the time.

It's also a nifty trick to make sure you pick off as many aspiring chaos champions as possible, making sure that the greater demon summoning happens to someone expensive, important and hopefully as far away from your troops as possible. ;)

/Joel - is probably thinking about the old 3rd Chaos codex summoning rules.

EmperorsChamp01
27-06-2005, 02:41
The challange has always been mandatory. When has it not been mandatory? I just dont under stand. And who is this new chappy and how can he have servitors?

x-esiv-4c
27-06-2005, 03:26
Do we know how big the new dex is going to be? A full-blown codex or one like the Dark-Angels back in 3rd ed?

Malakai
27-06-2005, 04:45
Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but does anyone know if GW are making chapter specific shoulder pads or not? I've heard conflicting rumours. The reason I ask is if they make them for the BT the chances of them making some for the other major chapters is likely. (not a huge BT fan :p )



thanks,
Malakai

LimeLord
27-06-2005, 04:59
Don't they already have nifty BT shoulder pads? as well as a bunch of other ones like dark angels and blud angels and crimsonfists/imperial fists?

Malakai
27-06-2005, 05:12
Don't they already have nifty BT shoulder pads? as well as a bunch of other ones like dark angels and blud angels and crimsonfists/imperial fists?


Unfortunately not, however as I was looking at the rumour roundup I saw that apparently the BT are getting plastic sprues to go with the plastic troops so they must mean shoulder pads. Can't wait for GD Chicago to get some more specific info though.



Malakai

LimeLord
27-06-2005, 05:19
Does anyone know the date for when its comming out anyway? I heard october, but i thought (hoped) it was sooner.

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 05:40
The challange has always been mandatory. When has it not been mandatory? I just dont under stand.

The current version of the challenge rule is that he MAY issue a challange not MUST.


And who is this new chappy and how can he have servitors?

Well I suggest you read the thread called new BT Chaplain. :rolleyes: All BT Chaplains can have specialised servitors now but Grimaldus has ones carrying relics.

Black Mage
27-06-2005, 05:47
Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, but does anyone know if GW are making chapter specific shoulder pads or not? I've heard conflicting rumours. The reason I ask is if they make them for the BT the chances of them making some for the other major chapters is likely. (not a huge BT fan :p )


They do make chapter specific shoulder pads. In pewter. There's a bit of range to them as well, from White Scars to Flesh Tearers to Iron Hands. Tho the Iron Hand ones are a bit tricky to find.

A must challenge eh? It could be interesting, we'll have to see what else he gets, but it seems as if the EC's uses are going to be a bit more surgical, but hey, insta-killing guard chars. on initiative is nothing to complain about.

Malakai
27-06-2005, 06:05
Yeah I've seen the old pewter ones, not crazy about them at all. They are styled slightly smaller for the old school metal marines.


Malakai

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 18:35
Do we know how big the new dex is going to be? A full-blown codex or one like the Dark-Angels back in 3rd ed?

Oh full blown probably around 60 odd pages but that's a estimate.

There are two special characters, one is Grimaldus and he has a thread all of his own, the other is High Marshal Helbrecht who comes with a combi-meltagun and the Sword of the High Marshals giving extra attacks during the first round of combat.

Black Mage
27-06-2005, 19:04
If the rumour is true with regards to Helbrecht's wargear, then it's somewhat dubious that the model rumoured to be Helbrecht, the one that can be seen in the Rumour Roundup, is really Helbrecht. It's entirely possible that it's been changed, but the model in the photo has a bolter/plasma combo. Furthermore, that is not a Maltese Cross, as has been stated before, but an Iron Cross if anything. But time shall tell.

Xavier
27-06-2005, 19:06
It's also a nifty trick to make sure you pick off as many aspiring chaos champions as possible, making sure that the greater demon summoning happens to someone expensive, important and hopefully as far away from your troops as possible. ;)

Dont you nominate a daemon veseel and thats the only one that can be used as the vessel, and if he is killed the possesion happens anyway.

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 19:10
Dont you nominate a daemon veseel and thats the only one that can be used as the vessel, and if he is killed the possesion happens anyway?

Yes but that's for another thread.


If the rumour is true with regards to Helbrecht's wargear, then it's somewhat dubious that the model rumoured to be Helbrecht, the one that can be seen in the Rumour Roundup, is really Helbrecht. It's entirely possible that it's been changed, but the model in the photo has a bolter/plasma combo.

I don't think it's Hellbrecht but do believe it will be released alongside the Templar codex.

DigitsDavid
27-06-2005, 19:11
Yeah I've seen the old pewter ones, not crazy about them at all. They are styled slightly smaller for the old school metal marines.


Malakai

Do you mean for Terminators or standard marines in power armour. If the latter, then the current shoulder pads from GW are the correct size!

Asher
27-06-2005, 19:36
If the rumour is true with regards to Helbrecht's wargear, then it's somewhat dubious that the model rumoured to be Helbrecht, the one that can be seen in the Rumour Roundup, is really Helbrecht. It's entirely possible that it's been changed, but the model in the photo has a bolter/plasma combo. Furthermore, that is not a Maltese Cross, as has been stated before, but an Iron Cross if anything. But time shall tell.

The one that looks like Azrael's lost twinbrother? I doubt it; as a chapter master is expected to be much more bling-ish.

Xavier
27-06-2005, 19:43
Yes but that's for another thread.

er.. so I should start another thread to correct pendragon about how the emperors champions challenge rules would work when fighting chaos... right...

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 20:05
er.. so I should start another thread to correct pendragon about how the emperors champions challenge rules would work when fighting chaos... right...

No but discussions on how Daemon vessels work as per your reply are best suited to the rules or tactics forums.

Xavier
27-06-2005, 20:10
I am perfectly aware of how they work, having the chaos codex and all, I was merely saying in reply to pendragon that daemon vessels are decided before the game, so killing all the champions wont cause it to posses a lord or lieutenant.

There might be some confusion with my punctuation I meant to type a period, not a question mark. If this is why you are confused I appologize. My wording in that post is poor aswell

Now instead of me simply stating that the way daemon vessels works was different to how pendragon thought they worked, this has turned into a small argument which shouldn't be happening in a thread for rumours. So we can end this here if you like.

XaNder
27-06-2005, 20:13
You barely used English as well. :rolleyes:


Well, I'm sorry Brim. You're right about the post. I was quite in a hurry actually. It made me laugh (though I didn't actually roll on the floor laughing :) ) a lot and telling philbrad about this was somehow as thanking him for the hillarious moments.

Thanks for the new rumours anyhow!

Cheers,
XaNder

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 20:23
Not a problem XaNder I can understand being rushed but a little more effort goes a long way. :)

Thread has gone slightly OT but I'll chuck some new rumours, Templars are rumoured to be getting a new piece of wargear called blessed armour for Land Raiders that will negate the effects of lance weapons.

Bike squads are said to be able to take three special weapons or power weapons.

t-tauri
27-06-2005, 20:38
There are two special characters, one is Grimaldus and he has a thread all of his own, the other is High Marshal Helbrecht who comes with a combi-meltagun and the Sword of the High Marshals giving extra attacks during the first round of combat.
No sense in giving him a pistol so he's really tooled up for close combat. :confused:

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 20:47
No sense in giving him a pistol so he's really tooled up for close combat. :confused:

With his stat line and sword I don't think he really needs it.

Evisss
27-06-2005, 21:23
Templars are rumoured to be getting a new piece of wargear called blessed armour for Land Raiders that will negate the effects of lance weapons.

What weapons are exactly defined as lance weapons.

Btw good new that templars would have some special characters , they needed some apart from the emperor's champ.

oatish
27-06-2005, 21:26
These rumors are really tempting me to go Templar when the 'dex is realeased. I only hope the "fall forwrd" rule is changed becasue I found that incredibly annoying and was almost too much of a benefit.

oatish

Mahu
27-06-2005, 21:28
I have a few questions...

1. Do Black Templar sqauds get access to more than one special weapon?

2. What limitations are there in the list to balance against standard marines?

Thanks

Brimstone
27-06-2005, 21:45
What weapons are exactly defined as lance weapons.

Lance weapons count amour higher than 12 as 12, bright lances for example.


I only hope the "fall forwrd" rule is changed becasue I found that incredibly annoying and was almost too much of a benefit.

Righteous Zeal is still there but it's rumoured to have changed, as I said earlier


You have to fleet towards the nearest enemy if you fail a test following casualties


1. Do Black Templar sqauds get access to more than one special weapon?

I don't know I'm afraid, I suspect it's still the same as the previous list but I have no confirmation on that.


2. What limitations are there in the list to balance against standard marines?

Well you have no Devastator squads, the armylist seems pretty biased towards close combat, so you may be able to get non vehicle heavy weapons but they could easily go zealous on you and head off towards the enemy.

My understanding of righteous zeal is that you head towards the nearest enemy it doesn't matter if it's a Bloodthirster, Monolith or Carnifex that's were you have to go.

In all though I think it's going to quite a different kind of army list compared to the codex ones, not more powerful just different.

Time and more information/rumours will tell.

Asher
27-06-2005, 21:48
What weapons are exactly defined as lance weapons.

Btw good new that templars would have some special characters , they needed some apart from the emperor's champ.


Brightlance of the Eldar and the Dark Eldar equivalent called Darklance; can't think of any more, but maybe they will be introduced with the release of one of the said codex. They reduce armor to 12.

Evisss
27-06-2005, 23:23
Thanks for clearing that out Asher.

I really like the templars from what they are looking out to be as far as the crusading army style which they are supposed to be in the end. What about the rumour of having a new land raider variant? is it true?

MonkeyKnifeFighter
28-06-2005, 00:01
I'm really going to be somewhat frusturated if Black Templars get this blessed armor. It seems like it is a band-aid fix for the problem of how fragile vehicles are in 4th edition. Taking a Land Raider is almost never worth it's points, in my experience (which have been bad). Nobody else pays a huge amount for a Land Raider? Or do Black Templar Land Raiders cost 300 points. I just don't see this as something that BTs need over everyone else. I see it as a fundimental flaw in the new rules that make vehicles very fragile and giving this upgrade just to Black Templars I feel is a pretty blatent example of BT's being a favorite.

Witch Hunter
28-06-2005, 00:18
I'm really going to be somewhat frusturated if Black Templars get this blessed armor. It seems like it is a band-aid fix for the problem of how fragile vehicles are in 4th edition. Taking a Land Raider is almost never worth it's points, in my experience (which have been bad). Nobody else pays a huge amount for a Land Raider? Or do Black Templar Land Raiders cost 300 points. I just don't see this as something that BTs need over everyone else. I see it as a fundimental flaw in the new rules that make vehicles very fragile and giving this upgrade just to Black Templars I feel is a pretty blatent example of BT's being a favorite.

I'd disagree. First, I believe it is an upgrade you pay for, not that is included in the points cost of the basic LRC. A LRC is what, 255 points base. Blessed Armour is probably going to run in the neighborhood of 15-25 points pushing the cost up to 270 @ least, probaly closer to 280. Granted my cost estimate is based off the Armoured Company's Machine God's Blessing special equipment doctrine, but it has the same effect as Blessed Armour is rumoured to have. So, yeah BTs will likely pay nearly 300 points for a LRC with the upgrade. I wouldn't shell out the points, but others will. Seems fair enough to me....and I'm not a BT fan.

LimeLord
28-06-2005, 04:53
Just against lances would only be wonderful against eldar though, and they could still just use d-cannons or haywire grenades anyway.

Brizzle
28-06-2005, 06:36
I was at the LA Battle Bunker today, and I heard some things about the BTs. Keep in mind the typical accuracy of the GW store employees.
I heard that there will be specific boxes for BT forces (ex: Tac Squads and Sword Bretheren, which are the BT terminators). Supposedly, these boxes will have chapter specific bitz included.

Does anyone know if Sword Bretheren are equipped any differently than regular terminators?

Brimstone
28-06-2005, 06:46
Nope that ties in with my rumours, as I said Tactical squads = Crusaders and Sword Brethren = Terminators/vets.

As far as I'm aware Sword Brethren have the same options as standard Terminators but that's still a bit of a grey area.

hivefleetcarrion
28-06-2005, 08:48
blessed armor could be cool, and would start the trend of replacing rules that were lost by certain chapters due to 4th ed space marines (eg salamanders tank upgrade that stoped d6 from melta weapons). of course it forces eldar to load up on something other than lance weapons/ star cannons, but that debate is for another thread.

personally rules that were made "anything over x value doesnt count" were stupid rules that needed to be turfed, to many contridictions to think about-living metal comes to mind

DigitsDavid
28-06-2005, 08:51
I take it there are still no Sergeants in tactical squads? I'm also about to start painting my FW ven dread. Am I ok to paint it BT?

I suspect the reason they are allowing the same number of neophytes in the squad is to balance your losses under majority armour rules.

Master_Forcide
28-06-2005, 08:55
A LRC is what, 255 points base.For the record, a LRC now costs even more. I won't say exactly how much, but its more than 10 points. Really, immunity to Lance weapons isn't that much of a bonus; after all, only two armies even have access to them, and Dark Eldar are generally not considered a power-gamers army, if you know what I mean. ;)


My understanding of righteous zeal is that you head towards the nearest enemy it doesn't matter if it's a Bloodthirster, Monolith or Carnifex that's were you have to go.Indeed. One of the rarely mentioned disadvantages to the Templars is that your enemy has a degree of control over your army. A clever opponent can funnel your troops strait into something nasty (example: Wraithlords. With T8, you can force the BTs into a fight they can't possibly win).

Inquis. Jaeger
28-06-2005, 12:55
Sounds cool. As a hardcore Templar player, I'm very much looking forward to any and all attention they get.

boogle
28-06-2005, 13:42
care to elaborate on the types of shields Brim?

Dante
28-06-2005, 13:46
Indeed. One of the rarely mentioned disadvantages to the Templars is that your enemy has a degree of control over your army. A clever opponent can funnel your troops strait into something nasty (example: Wraithlords. With T8, you can force the BTs into a fight they can't possibly win).

Ever heard of power fists..?

The Black Templars getting their own Codex is probably fine for those players, but really, how about fixing the First Founding Chapters Codice..?
Do GW actually remember they created a "loyalist close combat Chapter" (ie. the Space Wolves).

Now lets get this release over with and get on with the Xenos... :rolleyes:

LimeLord
28-06-2005, 17:25
[QUOTE=Dante]Ever heard of power fists..? [QUOTE]

Yeah, but you have to choose between a power fist and a plasma cannon, so having your support squads go nuts into combat is where it hurts.
Can anyone tell me when this codex is being released!?!?!

Adama
28-06-2005, 17:32
Do GW actually remember they created a "loyalist close combat Chapter" (ie. the Space Wolves).

Who have a perfectly good and functional Codex. (Because it was written by Jervis! Duh!)

Wolves need a re-do least of all the Chapters.

Brimstone
28-06-2005, 19:10
care to elaborate on the types of shields Brim?

Well the rumour is that Sword Brethren with Terminator honours can take Storm or Combat shields.

Assault squads may be given combat shields.

Unsure if there are any restrictions on numbers.

Slazton
28-06-2005, 20:31
The Wolves are not 100% close combat, they are more Vikings while Black Templars are more like Crusading Knights ;).

Hmm these rumours seem cool, but we all know there is going to be restrictions etc. Something to limit them, more than likely points costs.

Insane Psychopath
28-06-2005, 20:45
Cool I can not wait to go back to my good old... well 4th Black Templar army

Brim... any more info?????? come on there 9 page full & ahhh well can you give us more info.... prefferible (sp) the whole paper version of the codex for us to download

Dante
28-06-2005, 22:20
The Wolves are not 100% close combat, they are more Vikings while Black Templars are more like Crusading Knights ;).

Hmm these rumours seem cool, but we all know there is going to be restrictions etc. Something to limit them, more than likely points costs.

Well, the Black Templars are certainly not more of a close combat Chapter than the Space Wolves... :rolleyes:

Master_Forcide
28-06-2005, 23:05
Ever heard of power fists..?Take a powerfist and you lose access to the power weapon and any of the heavy weapons. I happen to like striking at I4. :p Besides, if your opponents clever enough to even use this strategy, he'll probably be smart enough to make sure that the squads that charge him don't have powerfists. ;)

hivefleetcarrion
29-06-2005, 07:04
Well, the Black Templars are certainly not more of a close combat Chapter than the Space Wolves... :rolleyes:


so where do blood angels fit into this :)


Take a powerfist and you lose access to the power weapon and any of the heavy weapons. I happen to like striking at I4. :p Besides, if your opponents clever enough to even use this strategy, he'll probably be smart enough to make sure that the squads that charge him don't have powerfists. ;)

but thats the trade off between every marine army...power weapons vs fists, bt are no different in this except they lose a heavy and lets face it, 4th ed has made plasma cannons pants now

boogle
29-06-2005, 09:03
BA are going in a slightly different direction apparently, leaving SW and BT as the primarily CC SM armies

Templar
29-06-2005, 09:21
So very excited... Any chance on the ability to make a non-chaplain HQ without rites of battle? Id love to use a marshall, but I do not want the army to have leadership 10.

boogle
29-06-2005, 09:23
the EC may be able to lead the army now

FrAnKtHeFrEaK
29-06-2005, 17:51
Assault squads may be given combat shields.

That's good to know, I gave my assault squad sergeant one only to have it occur to me that under the current rules I can't do that.

DigitsDavid
29-06-2005, 17:52
Brim, can you confirm whether they can use Ven Dreads please?

Saevus Secutor
29-06-2005, 18:16
Wouldn´t It be nice if they included some special rules for Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists in the BT codex? probably never happen but still...

foehammer888
29-06-2005, 20:24
The Space Marine Codex Already has those. They aren't going to give special rules in two different books for armies that are supposed to rigidly adhear to the Codex Astartes.

Foehammer

Brimstone
29-06-2005, 22:59
Brim, can you confirm whether they can use Ven Dreads please?

Yes they can.

More rumours in answer to questions.

Sword Brethren Terminator squads (both types) are the same as codex Marines.

Sword Brethren squads are also the same as vets in codex Marines except models with terminator honours have access to shields (you can add a storm shield to a bolt pistol).

Crusader squads can take a special weapon and a heavy weapon or power weapon/fist

Assault squads can take up to one power weapon although all can exchange their bolt pistols for storm shields at a points cost.

Edit - Codex is Black Templars only no other crusading chapters.

Pendragon
30-06-2005, 12:53
Dont you nominate a daemon veseel and thats the only one that can be used as the vessel, and if he is killed the possesion happens anyway.

As I mentioned, I was probably thinking of the old 3rd ed codex. It was a while ago I played chaos (or anyone at all for that matter). Sorry to cause such a stir.

/Joel

zealousheretic
30-06-2005, 18:58
Yes they can.

More rumours in answer to questions.

Sword Brethren Terminator squads (both types) are the same as codex Marines.

Sword Brethren squads are also the same as vets in codex Marines except models with terminator honours have access to shields (you can add a storm shield to a bolt pistol).

Crusader squads can take a special weapon and a heavy weapon or power weapon/fist

Assault squads can take up to one power weapon although all can exchange their bolt pistols for storm shields at a points cost.

Edit - Codex is Black Templars only no other crusading chapters.

Interesting stuff, good finds!

LimeLord
30-06-2005, 19:20
Assault sqauds only get one pwr weapon? damn, now i have to pick favorites :(

Black DH templ.
30-06-2005, 20:16
Does it mean only one power weapon/power fist? If so I'm screwed...

Brimstone
30-06-2005, 21:28
Does it mean only one power weapon/power fist? If so I'm screwed...


Why? you are only allowed two per squad at the moment, I'm sure you'll find something else to spend the points on.

Insane Psychopath
30-06-2005, 22:21
Brim

Can you tell us about this 4th new vow I have heard so much about????

Also any change of photo's of the new sprue.

Finial... will there be a new Emperor Champion model?????

hood_oz
01-07-2005, 00:21
Codex is Black Templars only no other crusading chapters.

Does this mean you cant take a successor chapter, or a chapter using the codex? It MUST be Black Templars? If so, thats a shame. I could see other colour schemes and army branding to look as good as the BT.

I haven't heard much from any of my sources, but since the codex is done and there is other things in development, I am hearing possibles of the codex after BT. (and nothing is actually set in stone for later codex releases, it seems whichever gets done first with associated plastics comes out first) or thats what I am hearing. Could just be a big fat red herring to get me to stop badgering everyone about orks/eldar/DA/BA/Tau/Alien Hunters/Campaign Book- Zero G and Space Boarding Actions

Orcdom
01-07-2005, 00:28
he dont mean that, he means like other existing chapters, and was referring to the fists that were mentioned earlier.

what would be the point of releasing a book and telling you that you cant use it for a sucessor chapter? might as well be talking to a wall.

Steve

Witch Hunter
01-07-2005, 00:29
Does this mean you cant take a successor chapter, or a chapter using the codex? It MUST be Black Templars? If so, thats a shame.

Just for the record, the Black Templars are a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists. They have no successors of their own, AFAIK.

MonkeyKnifeFighter
01-07-2005, 00:52
I think he just meant that there is no other fluff or rules in this codex besides the Black Templars.

Witch Hunter
01-07-2005, 00:57
Kinda hard to tell by the post, though...

hood_oz
01-07-2005, 01:38
I think he just meant that there is no other fluff or rules in this codex besides the Black Templars.

I hope so, but re-reading the past posts, it makes some sense to believe this train of thought.

I would be very interested in using an army based on the codex, but not BT.
If this codex covers any of the crusading style chapters, great. if not, then I will invest my time in building the assault company for my SM army instead.

Also, what is the rumour in regards to getting all these shields for the troops? will they come out as a box/blister or are they going for special plastic/metal casts through mail order?

Brimstone
01-07-2005, 05:52
Yes the codex is Black Templars only no Crusading chapters, Imperial Fists or any other anything else previously speculated about.

I hope that is clear enough.

Just because something is a option in the new codex doesn't mean GW will release a option for it, two assault cannons in a terminator squad for example.

However there are some pretty firm rumours around BT specific sprues so we might get some more on them.

LimeLord
01-07-2005, 06:43
So are you completely sure i won't get two power weapons per assault squad? I'm just paranoid i'll have to but more models :P. Plus will the sword brethren be getting any special equipment like uber power swords or the like?

Brimstone
01-07-2005, 06:53
So are you completely sure i won't get two power weapons per assault squad? I'm just paranoid i'll have to but more models :p

If I had the codex in my hand I'll call it a fact but I don't so it's a rumour.
However the sources are pretty reliable so we'll just have to wait and see.


Plus will the sword brethren be getting any special equipment like uber power swords or the like?

Not that I'm aware of, all I know about is that they have the same options as a standard veteran squad from codex marines. Plus give them Terminator honours and you can take a storm shield & bolt pistol or ccw for a points cost, or you can add a combat shield to a bolt pistol for a points cost.

hood_oz
01-07-2005, 08:03
Yes the codex is Black Templars only no Crusading chapters, Imperial Fists or any other anything else previously speculated about.

I hope that is clear enough.

Just because something is a option in the new codex doesn't mean GW will release a option for it, two assault cannons in a terminator squad for example.

Crystal. I had been wondering about that one.

Options, well, I would like to see some nice extra shields, but am not fussed, as there will be some nice ones (hopefully) on the assault termie sprue.

Nazguire
01-07-2005, 09:35
Yes the codex is Black Templars only no Crusading chapters, Imperial Fists or any other anything else previously speculated about.
.


Good, the Imperial Fists already have rules now, any new little tidbits in this BT codex would lead to an abnormally unnatural amoun of people making stupid assumptions... ;)


e.g. "Sooooo I can use Sword Brethren in my IF army because...you know...theres a IF that looks like one..." :angel:


and GW will be silly enough to cave in to these people...and release more FAQ's and more FAQ's and more FAQ's...rinse and repeat... :eek:

GW and predictability....hand in hand... ;)

LimeLord
01-07-2005, 18:48
On the topic of Imperial Fists, does anyone know if the Index Astartes 2 rules are still valid for them?

Avian
01-07-2005, 18:54
No, as it says in the SM Codex, if you want to play the chapters listed you have to use the listed traits.
(or you could of course ask your opponent if he'd be okay with you using the old ones...)

Insane Psychopath
01-07-2005, 20:53
Don't know if people really want to know but here gose.

As most of us know when a codex is made, there a papaer version with no drawing or model show in them, I was told that the Codex BT was that this stage a while ago (month).. well one of my friend who went to a GW meeting has seen it all full done, with cover, photo's of models, drawings & so forth. Also he got to see both new Assault Termies spure & the new tactic spure for them.

Also he said there are most likey to come out that the UK Games Day as in per relaese as why he hassling me to go. Just like me he is a big Black Templar player, but he not allowed to talk about the rules.

Just thought I let you lot know the codex is now 100% complete with cover, art work & nice shine new models photo's inside.

highmarshaldave
01-07-2005, 23:27
Damnit, and i just bought 'nids. . . oh well, time to live up to the name! Again.

Dave out.

Nazguire
02-07-2005, 00:49
Damnit, and i just bought 'nids. . . oh well, time to live up to the name! Again.

Dave out.



How could you betray your Black Templars? After all the vows they've made in your name?

I too shall be buying the Codex, not the models however, I've had enough of Space Marines for the time being other than the odd purchase.

MvS
02-07-2005, 02:05
Amen to that!

Nazguire
02-07-2005, 02:17
Amen to that!


Heeyyyy its MvS welcome back dude! :D

Insane Psychopath
02-07-2005, 11:27
So right we got a photo of the new Chaplain right. So when do we get a photo of the new spure?????? or have I miss it or somthing.

We need to see them :cries:

Brimstone
02-07-2005, 12:04
So right we got a photo of the new Chaplain right. So when do we get a photo of the new spure?????? or have I miss it or somthing.:

No you haved missED them but you're going to have to wait for a while, such is the way of rumours.

Insane Psychopath
02-07-2005, 20:40
Will there be a new Emperor Champion model with the new rules?????

LostTemplar
02-07-2005, 20:53
Probably not. Afterall, the Emperor Champion is a relativly new model.

The Inedible
02-07-2005, 22:39
Speaking of the EC can other SM chapters still take him?

I remembered that they could for a time back in 3rd, just curious is all.

Malakai
02-07-2005, 23:43
Speaking of the EC can other SM chapters still take him?

I remembered that they could for a time back in 3rd, just curious is all.


IIRC the EC was said to be a BT only character, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.


Malakai

Hellebore
03-07-2005, 01:07
The emperor's champion was a character that many chapters used, although it was strongest in the IF and co.

However, he has now been replaced with the CHAPTER champion and COMPANY champions in Codex space marines.

hellebore

Brusilov
03-07-2005, 09:24
Okay, this has more to do with the background forum, than with the rumours forum (but after all if Brim is invading my territory, I can invade his ;) and I used to play BT, a long time ago), but the Librarian issue has always seemed odd to me.

I can understand where it's coming from, the BT are so righteous that they cannot abide the existence of psykers withing their own ranks, taking the teaching of the Ministorum to an extreme.
But when you look carefully are it, this has several major drawbacks :
- who's in charge of the Librarium and the history of the Chapter (okay Chaplains could easily do that, especially since they're probably more numerous than in other Chapters)?
- who is tasked with communications? Librarians are ofte used to communicate psychically over long distances. You could argue that the BT would use Astropaths, but if they don't trust their own brothers with psychic powers, how could they trust mere humans even Soul Binded.
- who is in charge of detecting psychic potential in new recruits? This is a serious problem, if you don't have Librarians, there is a high chance that latent psykers will slip through the recrutment process and end up as full battle brothers. The most obvious ones, with lightning shooting out of their fingers, should be easy to spot but others with mental abilities can go undetected. Personally I argue this exlpains the existence of the Emperor's Champion (because on the eve of battle, BT with psychic potential might have a vision caused by their latent psychic ability in the presence of the strong emotions of their brothers).

Other than this, I'm very interested in seeing how the BT will turn out. This seems a really nice army list, and may get me back to play my first army of fanatics.
And cheers to the holy hand grenade of Antioch.

Inquis. Jaeger
03-07-2005, 11:33
Good points. Presumably they have systems in place to handle the things you've discussed. It really is an example of the entire dichotomy inherent in the Imperium. After all, they the Black Templars use ships(navigators etc)/astropaths/psychic inquisitors as allies etc. I believe a story a while back in Inferno addressed this issue, and it was put forward that the Chapter history/records etc are dealt with by the Crusade Chaplains, human astropaths are barely tolerated and psychic screening is done by human assistants.

Brimstone
03-07-2005, 11:39
They must reconcile it somehow, after all they worship one of the most powerful psykers ever.

Most probably they tolerate the essential psykers that the Imperium is built on but draw the line at having any wearing the mantle of the Black Templars.

I suppose I better go and start a few rumours threads in 40K background now. :p

highmarshaldave
03-07-2005, 12:07
How could you betray your Black Templars? After all the vows they've made in your name?

To be fair, I think I did it for a change of colour (from all the black marines and shadow grey guardsmen).

=][=Danek=][=
03-07-2005, 12:29
The more I hear about the BT Codex,the more difficult it will be to not start an army of them when it comes out.

I'm loving the changes to the Emperors Champion,and the Sword Bretheren always struck me as awesome(More so if FW does termie pads for them.)

MvS
03-07-2005, 12:29
They must reconcile it somehow, after all they worship one of the most powerful psykers ever.

Ah, but that's different. The Emperor is THE great and glorious God, so he doesn't count... ;) :D

Or, I guess, so the uber-zealous Templars would believe.

EDIT:

Oh, and I've collected the Templars for ages, or at least used their rules for a Chapter of my own devising (I wanted my own name and colour scheme. :)) so I'm certainly looking forward to the Templars Codex.

EDIT Mk II:

Brusilov's points are all excellent. The Black Templars wouldn't just be non-codex by not using any Psykers, but also would NOT be able to operate in the Imperium as it is today. Also, without proper psychic screening, they would likely have a higher incidence of choatic corruption within their ranks... hardly ideal for such a faithful and zealous bunch...

Brusilov
03-07-2005, 13:56
As mentioned above, the BT would have serious trouble operating with the organisations that make the Imperium possible : the Astropathicus for communication and the Navis Nobilite for stirring their ships through the warp.

Yes, the things you mention make sense Jaeger, but I don't see why the BT would trust mere humans to do these things.
I guess you could argue that religious fanatics may hate technology but would still use it to defeat their enemy, which is part of the inherent contradictions of such fanatics...

Insane Psychopath
03-07-2005, 14:10
The Sword Bretheran (sp) dose anyone know if you would be able to take them as Bodyguards???? Just if they are as good as they sound I would like to have them as my Chaplain Bodyguards.... or if not allowed I would just take a squad, or a Marshell with them.

highmarshaldave
03-07-2005, 18:17
In theory, yes; since they are, in effect, Space Marine veterans. . . turned up to 11.

Dave out.

Insane Psychopath
03-07-2005, 22:30
Ohh cool.. tho not 100% still cool.

Only thing now is... we need photo of the models... come on we had the new Marine stuff/stuff on the codex up last year.

Sorry just I want to see the new spure :cries:

alterion
04-07-2005, 08:07
well i have it on very good authority ( someone many of us trust) that there is a new very cool special character in the codex.. but i am not allowed to tell you any more until gduk so..

Templar
04-07-2005, 08:40
The Sword Bretheran (sp) dose anyone know if you would be able to take them as Bodyguards???? Just if they are as good as they sound I would like to have them as my Chaplain Bodyguards.... or if not allowed I would just take a squad, or a Marshell with them.


It would be really hardcore if you could equip the bretheran with jump packs

Inquis. Jaeger
04-07-2005, 10:27
well i have it on very good authority ( someone many of us trust) that there is a new very cool special character in the codex.. but i am not allowed to tell you any more until gduk so..

Would this be the Chaplain seen in the rumour roundup?

highmarshaldave
04-07-2005, 15:09
Possibly, yes. I think also that an uber-champ would be cool: like Helbrech's personal champion or something. Sigismund re-born, maybe?

alterion
04-07-2005, 15:30
no not a chaplain.. much higher up/..

Karhedron
04-07-2005, 15:42
no not a chaplain.. much higher up/..
Wow, they are putting in stats for the Emperor?! :eek:

:D

Seriously though, I am pretty sure that High Marshal Helbrecht will be in the codex. There has never been a codex produced for a named chapter that did not include the Chapter Master.

highmarshaldave
04-07-2005, 15:47
So that'd explain the uber cool picture that doesn't want to be uploaded. Thus I'm unhappy. If anyone can think of a way of gettin it on the board, let me know.

Dave out.

langolas
04-07-2005, 16:11
Just because they have one piece of wargear with a in-joke to monty python doesn't make them a joke army, far from it.

Yeah, besides look waht the HHGoA did to the poor rabbit!

Brimstone
04-07-2005, 19:58
Seriously though, I am pretty sure that High Marshal Helbrecht will be in the codex. There has never been a codex produced for a named chapter that did not include the Chapter Master.

As I said a few pages back.


There are two special characters, one is Grimaldus and he has a thread all of his own, the other is High Marshal Helbrecht who comes with a combi-meltagun and the Sword of the High Marshals giving extra attacks during the first round of combat.

boogle
04-07-2005, 20:17
are they the only 2 characters though?

Brimstone
04-07-2005, 20:43
are they the only 2 characters though?

Yes the only two as far as I'm aware.

You could make a case for the EC being a special character despite his inclusion in the main army list.

highmarshaldave
04-07-2005, 21:56
I think (again) that the idea of Helbrech's Emperor's Champion (ie, the "Chapter Champion") would be mighty cool. Hmm, maybe he could have more than 2 attacks on his freeking profile!

Dave out.

alterion
04-07-2005, 22:30
darn.. didn;t realise helbrandt had been leaked already. ah well.. apparently the model loooks... stunning to say the least

Insane Psychopath
04-07-2005, 22:48
I've been getting word from my contact that there are Sword Brtheran (sp) models. By the look of them they will have a sheild of some sort. Also it look like they will have power weaponss. There in robes like the Dark Angles but more flowing.

Inquis. Jaeger
05-07-2005, 09:25
Freaking sweet. Damn GW. They tempt me to start a new Marine army (grrr) (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5180) and then make my Templars total beasts with all new models and such.

highmarshaldave
05-07-2005, 10:59
My thoughts precisely. . . ooh well, I've been in need of a display army for some time now. Perfect excuse methinks.

Dave out.

charlie_c67
05-07-2005, 13:27
So that'd explain the uber cool picture that doesn't want to be uploaded. Thus I'm unhappy. If anyone can think of a way of gettin it on the board, let me know.

Dave out.

Host it on photo bucket or somewhere and post the link

Black DH templ.
05-07-2005, 13:44
darn.. didn;t realise helbrandt had been leaked already. ah well.. apparently the model loooks... stunning to say the least

HUH??? You mean that guy displayed with all the veterans? He just looks like a slightly altered Marshall....

Brimstone
05-07-2005, 18:39
I take it the conversation revolves around this model (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1896&postcount=2) in the rumour roundup (please check it first in future).

This is not Helbrecht, for a start that model has a combi-plasma not a combi-melta, and is NOT the High Marshal.

The actual Hellbrecht model is yet to be unvielled but if anybody has a picture and wants it hosted we would be happy to oblige, just PM me.

Insane Psychopath
05-07-2005, 18:46
Well for me that not what I was talking about, sorry brim :(

Just I was told there be guy out for Sword Brethern, who in robes, look like there holding a sheild (tho was not photo with sheild) & look as tho they where charging. Also think of the SC Chaplain for BT with the purty seals.

As for that model we all thought was Helbrecht, ohhh man :cries: I'm wondering why he has those scrachiies (sp) on his leg & mostly cover in bionics :eyebrows:

Brimstone
05-07-2005, 18:51
Just I was told there be guy out for Sword Brethern, who in robes, look like there holding a sheild (tho was not photo with sheild) & look as tho they where charging. Also think of the SC Chaplain for BT with the purty seals.

Yes the Knight/Shield/Guns on chains look is the latest in thing for Templars.



As for that model we all thought was Helbrecht, ohhh man :cries: I'm wondering why he has those scrachiies (sp) on his leg & mostly cover in bionics :eyebrows:

Maybe because he is a veteran warrior of many battles?

Don't forget this model may not be released at all but that's unlikely IMO.

Insane Psychopath
05-07-2005, 18:59
But still that model that we all thought was Helbrecht, but is not. He still very cool & it would of made for a cool Emperor Champ (conversion of course) :cries:

But I know what you mean as I seen a unrelase Nugal Termies, so of the Last chancer (sp) who never came out (my friend use to work in GW HQ back in the day so he got some of the LC models in his army)

Any way Brim when should you get photo of the new Templars stuff??? sorry just I just want to plan out models/conversion for my new BT army.

Brimstone
05-07-2005, 19:02
Any way Brim when should you get photo of the new Templars stuff??? sorry just I just want to plan out models/conversion for my new BT army.

When it's available and not before. ;)

No way of telling you exactly when, a lot of rumours and pictures come from forum members and I encourage them to send them in, confidentiality is assured if requested.

highmarshaldave
06-07-2005, 11:39
I take it the conversation revolves around this model (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1896&postcount=2) in the rumour roundup (please check it first in future).

Erm, yep. . . second and third. . . oops.

Anywho, I realise now that it isn't Helbrech. . . either way its very nice model. And I'd probably include it if it became available. Or convert me own!!!

Dave out.

LostTemplar
07-07-2005, 00:45
It does actually look like the Helbrech pictures we'ven been supplied... Afterall, Helbrech is bald.. And does have an eye-targetter, like that model... I mean, it might not be, but I'd suppose it'd be actually a very good stand in.

Brimstone
07-07-2005, 05:39
It does actually look like the Helbrech pictures we'ven been supplied... Afterall, Helbrech is bald.. And does have an eye-targetter, like that model... I mean, it might not be, but I'd suppose it'd be actually a very good stand in.


NO it is not Hellbrecht. :rolleyes:

Kojak is bald, doesn't mean he is a Chapter Master.

Wiseman
07-07-2005, 07:47
do they speciallise in taking on bunny's with big pointy teeth now if they take the holy orb?

DigitsDavid
07-07-2005, 08:40
do they speciallise in taking on bunny's with big pointy teeth now if they take the holy orb?

I am almost tempted to do a little vignette of a BT Marshal pretending to fly his landspeeder, whilst accompanied by a heavily laden servitor and a neophyte knocking together a couple of coconut shells!

Could be the start of a whole new Golden Demon class!

highmarshaldave
07-07-2005, 08:59
What? Parodys? Go for it, it'll make the judges laugh: and thats important.

Dave out.

Kensai X
07-07-2005, 09:08
Haha I'l mount the Trojan Bunny on my LRC...

Or make my EC look like the Black Knight

and one of the Storm Shields has to look like Sir Robin's. There's just so many possibilities.

EmperorsChamp01
07-07-2005, 19:02
See Brim i told you that the BT would be a Joke army :p . I really like the Ideas that are comming out of this thread. I amd a BT player and im just interested in what they get. I hope they make a Helisbrcet(sp) He is sooooooo kool. I love his fluff. I wonder if they will make him like Calgar. Where he can take Termie armor or Power armor??? This is going to be so kool!!!

Kensai X
08-07-2005, 02:43
What do you mean a joke army?

Killer Bunnies will always strike fear into the heart of the enemy!!!

That or the Were-Wombats will

Wiseman
08-07-2005, 03:26
i can just imagine someone charging a giant bunny into an enemy and piling termintors out.

Brimstone
08-07-2005, 06:58
OK that's enough of the Python jokes, this is a rumours discussion. You want to try and be funny go and do it in the wastes or RM.

Insane Psychopath
08-07-2005, 19:51
Any word if they are redoing the Emperor Champion models????

highmarshaldave
08-07-2005, 20:24
Shouldn't think so, its a nice enough model.

Dave out.

Wintermute
08-07-2005, 21:02
Any word if they are redoing the Emperor Champion models????

I very much doubt that we will see yet another Emperor's Champion model.

If we do get another one it would be the third in five years. :eek:

Insane Psychopath
09-07-2005, 10:35
They did bring out that WFB Valtan I thing he called??? around 3 or 4 of him in less than a year.

I am just pointing this out. Just they could make him out of plastic.

It just I ask because his rule are changing(sp) for him I thought they would bring out a more gothic style EC like that Chaplain model.

I'll be heading down to Warhammer World again after the GT (40K) on a Vet trip, usely we get perview of stuff in the works, last year it was codex Marines & a test command squad spure.

This year I think it might be Templars & if so I'll make sure to take photos of ever page... & try get photo's of the spure. But that only if they do show them.

Brimstone
09-07-2005, 11:07
I doubt the EC will be changed. In fact the EC is a good indicator towards the look of the new Templars.

I can only recall two, the 2th Anniversay edition (http://www.solegends.com/citle/emperorschampion.htm) version and the current one (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060101236&orignav=9), what's the third?

Even if a new version is released it will not be plastic.

t-tauri
09-07-2005, 11:12
I can only recall two, the 2th Anniversay edition (http://www.solegends.com/citle/emperorschampion.htm) version and the current one (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060101236&orignav=9), what's the third?

Wintermute's point was that a new version would be the third.

If you wanted a new plastic one the forthcoming Black Templar plastics and the company champion parts from the command squad would go a long way towards making a decent basis for a conversion.

Brimstone
09-07-2005, 11:14
Wintermute's point was that a new version would be the third.

Ah :o


If you wanted a new plastic one the forthcoming Black Templar plastics and the company champion parts from the command squad would go a long way towards making a decent basis for a conversion.

Agreed, they don't all look the same and making your own contributes towards your personalised force.

Insane Psychopath
09-07-2005, 13:51
Sorry, it just with the new codex I thought they might of made a newer version of the Emperor Champ??? It cool I've alway got the old 25th one to use :D

Black Mage
09-07-2005, 19:27
There is a third incarnation of the EC, tho it makes no sense. I believe it's the model of where the marine is holding a sword close to his chest, and has his arm extended to fire a bolter. I think GW sort of called it an EC, but changed to calling it Captain Draco in a recent and limited re-release.

Brimstone
09-07-2005, 19:37
There is a third incarnation of the EC, tho it makes no sense. I believe it's the model of where the marine is holding a sword close to his chest, and has his arm extended to fire a bolter. I think GW sort of called it an EC, but changed to calling it Captain Draco in a recent and limited re-release.

Captain Draco (http://www.solegends.com/citle/captdraco.htm) was never a Emperors Champion but he was a limited edition nameless BT captain in the Templars army box.

Son of Morkai
09-07-2005, 21:17
Several times GW did refer to the model as an Emperor's Champion, though they could have made a mistake on their part. But I have a Troll here that says the now-Captain Draco model was a limited-edition Emperor's Champion and I remember a few other times it happened.

Insane Psychopath
09-07-2005, 21:20
How come Captain Draco was never release in the UK???

Any way back on topic. Is there a date for the Codex Black Templar release????? It just so I know how long I have to wait

Ohh yeah I won a bid on ebay for the 25th GW Emperor Champ model.

t-tauri
09-07-2005, 21:44
How come Captain Draco was never release in the UK???Because it's a fairly horrible figure where the hands are badly out of proportion. It was originally released at a small Scandinavian convention and then in a US only BT army deal with BT backpacks. The US GW has been recasting it at sporadic intervals for sale on the webstore or at events. It's never been used at a UK event for much the same reason the Iron Hands Ironfather hasn't been released here. It's a training figure which doesn't match up to GW UK's standards.


Any way back on topic. Is there a date for the Codex Black Templar release????? It just so I know how long I have to wait
Any chance you could use the wait to proofread, spellcheck and learn just how many question marks go in a sentence? Your posts are verging on the unreadable.

We have a six month information window, pictures of BTs have been on sneak peak for a few weeks so that puts us around Christmas. Given the usual release by GW is late October for Christmas sales I think that's when we'll see it with some prereleases at UK Games Day, though I doubt the prereleases will include the codex or army deal.

Brimstone
09-07-2005, 22:01
I'd expect the Black Templar codex in early November but this is subject to confirmation.

Insane Psychopath
09-07-2005, 22:48
Thank you

pictures of BTs have been on sneak peak for a few weeks so that puts us around Christmas.

Sorry but is this the GW site or hear???? or do you mean that Chaplin model??? Sorry again

highmarshaldave
09-07-2005, 22:52
Any chance you could use the wait to proofread, spellcheck and learn just how many question marks go in a sentence? Your posts are verging on the unreadable.

BY GOD MAN!!! READ THE FREEKING POST!!! The closest to a Templar sneak peak on GW is the current Chaplain, but there are a lot of rumours (if few images) flying around here. Best bet? Wait 'till Games Day UK, get there early, and hope like hell you get frst digs at the advanced orders ('cos they'de be fools not to have Templar advanced orders on the mail orded stand at Games Day).

Dave out.

Tom
10-07-2005, 01:31
Templars will be at GDUK, I think given the contents of the programme for it. Don't know waht just yet; of course the Space marine releases last year ended up being just the Command Squad and Captain (most versatile kits ever!). I'd imagine at least the assault Terminators and probably the BT squad box, possibly Codex: Crusaders and the Scouts/Chaplains ass well.

Hero
10-07-2005, 18:31
BrimStone this Holy Hand grenade will be like the skaven brass orb?

Would it make sense that they would allow them to have 2 power weapons or powerfist per squad then having any speacail weapons? Since they are going for the close combat then shooting?

Brimstone
10-07-2005, 18:42
BrimStone this Holy Hand grenade will be like the skaven brass orb?

Since I have no idea what a brass orb is, I'm afraid I cannot help you.

However, it's one shot, you can throw it out to rapid fire range, it doesn't use T to wound and has a marine killing AP. It also auto-glances vehicles.


Would it make sense that they would allow them to have 2 power weapons or powerfist per squad then having any speacail weapons? Since they are going for the close combat then shooting?

Maybe don't forget these are rumours and may not represent the final codex, if I get any further confirmation I'll update them.

Damokles
10-07-2005, 18:49
Sorry to disapoint you hero, but the "holy hand grenade of Antiochia" is just a joke from a Monty Pythons movie, concerning the power weapons I would say it is possible, the options could be made equal to the Space Wolves options, so second powerweapon, - fist or special weapon could be reality for BT's

by the way, welcome to por... ähm. warseer hero, and welcome back to myself, well kind of... :)
but please check your spelling a little, it's "than" rather than "then" you were looking for I guess,

Brimstone
10-07-2005, 18:52
Sorry to disapoint you hero, but the "holy hand grenade of Antiochia" is just a joke from a Monty Pythons movie

Errr no, it's a new piece of wargear for the Black Templars codex that's a obvious injoke related to the film.

Flame Boy
10-07-2005, 20:06
Oh no! The Black Templar Codex is re-introducing the Vortex Grenade under a pompous new title! Run for your lives! (cues sounds of hysterical man getting sucked into the warp)

I seriously thought the Hand Grenade references were a hoax... It seems I was wrong. Oh well, it will be worth a giggle if it turns up in the final codex...

Rabid Bunny 666
10-07-2005, 20:10
it will probably be really useful and/or destructive

Great Harlequin
10-07-2005, 20:28
I think the 'Holy Hand Grenade' or whatever it's called now, will only be available for independent characters. I don't see a tactical squad having them considering they are hand made in such small numbers.

Brimstone
10-07-2005, 21:20
I think the 'Holy Hand Grenade' or whatever it's called now, will only be available for independent characters. I don't see a tactical squad having them considering they are hand made in such small numbers.

That's my understanding of the Holy Orb as well, it will probably be one per army I expect.

Great Harlequin
10-07-2005, 21:25
That's my understanding of the Holy Orb as well, it will probably be one per army I expect.
Possibly... Though I would doubt that as if it is going to be on a Space Marine sprue you may well run into a couple of those when purchasing your army. But knowing Games Workshop they may have a Limited edition boxed set for the Holy Orb costing £12 :rolleyes:

t-tauri
10-07-2005, 21:41
But knowing Games Workshop they may have a Limited edition boxed set for the Holy Orb costing £12 :rolleyes:
£20 including Brother Maynard. ;)

I am increasingly getting into the idea of a BT army. It's gone from a poorly written list to one which is making me think about an army of the goons. At least it'd be quick to paint. ;) Plus the power of the Python in-jokes is leading me to the dark (black) side.

Brimstone
11-07-2005, 05:34
As I said a few pages a ago, that's enough python jokes, one reference and everybody tries to be a comedian. :rolleyes:

highmarshaldave
11-07-2005, 14:14
Some people eh?

Would the Holy Hand 'ninade be in with chapter specific relicy stuff? If they are planning on doing Templar relics, I think some form of uber sword must be in order. As would a banner or two. And a shrubery.

Dave out.

(By relics I'm reffering to the specail wargear in Codex marines. Iron Halo etc.)

LimeLord
11-07-2005, 17:54
And maybe a special rule for the Emperors champ that gave him an "its only a flesh wound" save :D! Seriously i hope they don't can the possibility of having two useful weapons in an assault squad, that would tear apart my army and with having no vet sargents make vanilla assault squads potentialy more useful.

LostTemplar
11-07-2005, 18:42
The Inclusion of a second "heavy assault" weapon would be a good addiction, if they decided to have it. Space Wolves have that option, and yet, nobody complains. And they have the option for a Wolf Guard, which can have a third. And on top of that, they have a Meltagun. In a Grey Hunters Pack, of course, and they still could use two plasma pistols, in addiction to the rest.

So, no it wouldn't make Black Tempalr "brutal".

philbrad2
11-07-2005, 19:02
Errr no, it's a new piece of wargear for the Black Templars codex that's a obvious injoke related to the film.

Exactly how many 12 year old will know about the Knights who say NIH?!

GW have used a few movie inspired bits in their background over the years. Just hope hand grenade thing is a one off. Last thing we need is little 'in jokes' cropping up in 40K armies. I really like the idea of the crusading chapter and I hope the armylist reflects this not just another variant of SM's in black armour.

:chrome:

t-tauri
11-07-2005, 19:28
GW have used a few movie inspired bits in their background over the years. Just hope hand grenade thing is a one off. Last thing we need is little 'in jokes' cropping up in 40K armies.
Part of the attraction of a lot of GW stuff for me is spotting the in-jokes and "real-world" historical references. Sometimes it's a little heavy handed but generally I think they pull it off quite well.

Brimstone
12-07-2005, 06:27
Picked up via Dakka, Alliance games now has a list of BT and upcoming 40K releases.

GAW 40-13 Warhammer 40K: Wargear $30.00
GAW 48-16-N Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Scouts $25.00
GAW 48-31-N Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Megaforce $150.00
GAW 48-34 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Terminator Close Combat Squad $50.00
GAW 48-38-N Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Chaplains $12.00
GAW 48-44-N Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Terminator Chaplain $15.00
GAW 55-01 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Codex $20.00
GAW 55-06 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Tactical Squad $40.00
GAW 55-07-N Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Assault Squad $35.00
GAW 55-08 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Command Squad $35.00
GAW 55-10 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Battleforce $130.00
GAW 55-11 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Sword Brethren $40.00
GAW 55-13 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars Grimaldus & Retinue $50.00
GAW 55-35 Warhammer 40K: Space Marines Black Templars High Marshal $15.00

Barbarossa
12-07-2005, 07:03
GAW 40-13 Warhammer 40K: Wargear $30.00


Now what would that be? Did I miss something?

Brimstone
12-07-2005, 07:10
Now what would that be? Did I miss something?

Nope, I've got no idea.

Speculation would be on some kind of background book on weapons/wargear in a similar manner to the old 2nd edition wargear book.

Starkey
12-07-2005, 08:05
i dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet. With the new plastic scouts will we so new plastic sout bikes.

They would already had the torso for the bike they would just need legs.

Cypher
12-07-2005, 08:28
Maybe, although unless they've changed the style of the scouts I wouldnt expect it too much. The current Scout bikers are nice models, and Im guessing they dont sell enough to warrant a new plastic kit.

As for "Wargear": my initial thought was a box set of wargear options for marines to compliment the Commander and other models. Which would be really cool. That said given the listed price, a background book of some sort seems more likely. That could also be cool :cool:

Inquis. Jaeger
12-07-2005, 09:23
Gah. Damn GW. You think you've managed to escape when you buy a brand new 1500 point BT army, win a few games, get bored of playing with it and ditch it for a new army (see the Tale of 8 Gamers :D Plug!), then they not only release a new set of rules, but brand spanking new (undoubtedly awesome) minatures.

Humbug. I've got a dreadful feeling I'm going to be sucked back in on this one...

mostholycerebus
12-07-2005, 09:28
- Abhor the Witch, destroy the Witch.

THIS is why I believe everything BVrimstone has said so far. GW's new codex scheme leaves no codex finished until it kicks Thousand Sons down just a little more. :cries:

Glad to hear BT pay for their vows now. Like BA, using rules restrictions to balance benefits just leads to min/maxing and the appearance that they army gets something for free.

I'm looking forward to plastic scouts.

highmarshaldave
12-07-2005, 10:07
GAW 40-13 Warhammer 40K: Wargear $30.00

I severly hope it aint anothe book! I thought the whole point in the new Marine codices was that YOU DIDN'T NEED THE ORIGINAL! Now they plan to release a (seemingly) pointless supliment! Get a grip GW!

Sorry. . . maybe its a funky (big) sprue. With all the Templars specific wargear on and some other Templaresque items on it: breastplates, pads, backpacks, "generic" weapons etc. That'd be a far cooler idea.

Dave out.

Karhedron
12-07-2005, 10:10
Glad to hear BT pay for their vows now. Like BA, using rules restrictions to balance benefits just leads to min/maxing and the appearance that they army gets something for free.
Agreed, as a Blood Angels player myself I would actually like to see more of a return to the "flawed heroes" of 2nd edition rather than Bezerkers-Lite. I will be looking at codex BTs with great interest, mainly because I am hoping to see something positive for when the BAs get redone.

LostTemplar
12-07-2005, 10:55
Maybe that Warger book is the fabled book with the special rules relating to ammunitions, grenades and so forth? You know, the one GW said they'd make, but that never did came around?

highmarshaldave
12-07-2005, 10:57
Thing is though, that sort of book sounds "generic". this seems to be as actual Templar release. Strange one.

Dave out.

Evisss
12-07-2005, 11:25
i dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet. With the new plastic scouts will we so new plastic sout bikes

I dont think they are as badly done as the scouts on foot but they are armed totally wrongly to what the codex allows them to take which is really annoying as they cant take bolters nor shotguns :mad:

panda
12-07-2005, 11:39
@highmarshaldave- this could just be good timing on GW's part, as they are releasing a close-combat heavy marine army and this would tie in nicely....

Pendragon
12-07-2005, 13:07
And maybe a special rule for the Emperors champ that gave him an "its only a flesh wound" save :D! Seriously i hope they don't can the possibility of having two useful weapons in an assault squad, that would tear apart my army and with having no vet sargents make vanilla assault squads potentialy more useful.

Heh, when he's out of wounds, he starts losing attacks? ;)

/Joel

Inquis. Jaeger
12-07-2005, 15:05
i dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet. With the new plastic scouts will we so new plastic sout bikes.

They would already had the torso for the bike they would just need legs.

The Scout Bikers are now classed as 'Classic' models in the new Space Marine Collectors' Guide, and (subject to the current stock run) are no longer being sold in stores (I believe). Surely this is a signal they'll be replaced?

They need it anyway. They're horrible miniatures.

Melchor
12-07-2005, 15:21
Very interesting list Brimstone. Especially the Wargear supplement (book/box whatever) and the Scout thing.

The Wargear thing might be a background book as was already mentioned. But then again, if it were a background related book, wouldn't it be more likely to be released by Black Library.
My guess is that it will indeed be either a new rulebook or a box with wargear goodies. But at $30 my money is on some form of rulebook.

As for the scouts, how many and what kind of scouts would $25 buy you? I've been looking at the US online store comparing prices and it doesn't look like it will be a new box of the 'old' metal scouts.
On the other hand, if rumours are true and the plastic scouts come 4 on a sprue, $25 sounds like a very likely price for 8 new scouts. CSM come in boxes of 8 and also cost $25 a box.

I conclude: it all points in the direction of plastic scouts!

ps. I hope you were all able to follow my reasoning. :p

my_name_is_tudor
12-07-2005, 15:27
Thing is though, that sort of book sounds "generic". this seems to be as actual Templar release. Strange one.

Dave out.

Actually, it seems quite the opposite, on the list all the BT items have toe words 'black templars' in their name, and are grouped at the end of the list, before which we see items that can be used in any Space marine force (assault termis, scouts, a megaforce, chaplains, etc)

It would seem that this is some sort of all round wargear supplement (it doesnt even say 'space marine' in the title, so it could be a book for all races)

I expect it is either:

a single sprue of Imperial weapons, a single big sprue mind

a book that just compiles all the rules for all wargear in the game into one, so that conflicts about weapon stats and special rules can be avoided

or a background book a la the old wargear book - though as has been said wouldn't this be a Black Library release?

it could even be some sort of book on converting your models, wargear seems a sort of relevant name.. but i would expect such a book to be called 'how to convert citadel miniatures' to follow the current title trend.

highmarshaldave
12-07-2005, 15:35
Hmm, I don't like the idea of a "rules" book. After all, isn't the current thinking in GW HQ to keep all the main rules in one book? In effect they are regressing.

Dave out.

my_name_is_tudor
12-07-2005, 15:38
No me neither, it seems pretty pointless, but I can imagine one being released, though how they'd deal with the upcoming-rules-in-codexes issue is beyond me.

30USD is what? £15?

That sounds about right for say, one regiment sized sprue (you know like, the two cadian sprues before they are split in half) with a load of guns on, bolters, sniper rifles, everything. It could be their excuse for not featuring sniper rifles on the scout sprue...

LimeLord
12-07-2005, 15:42
I think it would be neat if they had a bit of both, sort of a weapons list for the imperium and a bit of history on the origins of the weapons and maybe some special weapons like that shiney dark angels sword with some fluff around what it is.

grave digger
12-07-2005, 16:19
I may be in the minority but I would like to see a "Warhammer 40K: Wargear" book. I still have the 2nd ed one and really enjoy reading it on occasion.

I would like to see one source with all of the rules for the different types of wargear. Not prices mind you, that can be left to the individual codex. But it would be very helpful to have the rule in front of you to help make games go faster.

My two cents.

Diggs

philbrad2
12-07-2005, 16:56
Agreed, as a Blood Angels player myself I would actually like to see more of a return to the "flawed heroes" of 2nd edition rather than Bezerkers-Lite. I will be looking at codex BTs with great interest, mainly because I am hoping to see something positive for when the BAs get redone.

Yup I too long for the day an BA Devastator will fire his lascannon at an enemy rather than charging at full pelt and tries to cave his head in with it...

I agree I think what GW does with Codex BT's will be scrutinised by gamers closely. BT's have aquired a bit of a bad name in the :cheese: department - dont flame me I play BA and IW's I know the meaning of pain! If they do a good balanced job then it bodes well for the BA although I think its a safe bet 4th ed will see BA players paying for their special rules.

Plus codex BT's might give me some ideas to finish my IF's.

On the subject of the Wargear 'thing' my suspicsions are its a book, although I'd love tosee wargear sprue(s) I think for approx £15 to expect Wargear elements for all the 40K races - there is no mention that this product is race specfic - would be a bit much and not appealling to all gamers.

:chrome:

t-tauri
12-07-2005, 17:18
Picked up via Dakka, Alliance games now has a list of BT and upcoming 40K releases.

GAW 40-13 Warhammer 40K: Wargear $30.00
GAW 40 codes are for generic 40k books

GAW 40-02-N Warhammer 40k: Rulebook 4th Edition GAW 40-03 Warhammer 40k: Armageddon Codex
GAW 40-05 Warhammer 40k: City Fight Codex
GAW 40-10 Warhammer 40k: Space Marines Index Astartes 4 $25.00
GAW 40-11 Warhammer 40k: Codex Eye Of Terror $15.00
NYA GAW 40-13 Warhammer 40K: Wargear
So the conclusion there has to be a generic book like the second edition wargear book giving background on guns, weapons and maybe tanks.

What's interesting is the apparent lack of an Army Deal, but the presence of a Battleforce.

highmarshaldave
12-07-2005, 17:53
Bugger, foiled by order codes! Ach well, it'll be a cool idea as such. Just another book to carry, alongside the BgB, IA1 and Codex Guard (wow, thats £90 worth of bookness! And the Codex is signed by Andy C).

Dave out.

Melchor
12-07-2005, 18:29
GAW 40 codes are for generic 40k books


But... all the codes in the list Brim posted start with GAW. :confused:
Did someone make a mistake?

t-tauri
12-07-2005, 18:41
But... all the codes in the list Brim posted start with GAW. :confused:
Did someone make a mistake?Don't think so. :D

All the new Space Marine stuff starts GAW 48 and the BT specific GAW 55. The GAW 40 codes are used by Alliance for generic 40k Games Workshop books like Index Astartes and the campaign codices like EoT and Cityfight.

Melchor
12-07-2005, 19:45
D'oh! :eek:

*hangs head in shame*

LimeLord
12-07-2005, 20:47
When is the BT codex coming out and whats after?

Brimstone
12-07-2005, 21:19
November and then codex Jokaero ;)

Try reading around the forums a little more the simple answer is we are not 100% sure, it's looking like Tau at the moment but that's a subject for another thread.

Sir Charles
12-07-2005, 21:43
I think this has been mentioned but might this Codex: wargear be the supplement they mentioned they might release with "Advanced" rules, for amunition and such?

Flame Boy
12-07-2005, 21:59
I would like to see a new book following the same spirit of the old 40k 2nd edition Wargear book. It was a great resource, and it wouldn't hurt to give it an update, as Cyclone Missile launchers fire frag missiles now instead of salvos of krak missiles, so updating the fluff for some of the weapons to suit the new 4th edition background would be helpful. Considering people joining 40k in 3rd edition could probably own a space marine army without knowing how a Boltgun is supposed to work, it might be a nice idea. You could also include weapons that appear in the fluff bug are no longer in the game, like the good ol' vortex grenade. It would mean that these relic weapons still exist in the mythos without them needing to be in an army list.

I think a Wargear book like that with access to the basic stats of each weapon and the rules for it might be a nice idea.

I'm hoping that's what we're looking at here....

:edit: While I was typing this in the 40k Wargear rumour discussion it got closed, so I'm moving it to the Black Templar discussion.Sorry if it's not relevent there... but it's the closest fit now the other topic is locked.

Sgt John Keel
12-07-2005, 23:56
Heeyyyy its MvS welcome back dude! :D

I wholly agree with this statement.

Now get back to 40k background and post the 40k prehistory! I need it!:p

Hmm, do I have to add something relevant here too? Damn. I guess I'll just complain over how cruel GW are and how little money I have. Sounds to be some rather fine miniatures going on there!

/Adrian

He Who Laughs
13-07-2005, 00:49
I think this has been mentioned but might this Codex: wargear be the supplement they mentioned they might release with "Advanced" rules, for amunition and such?


Seeing that *most* credible rumours do eventually come true in some way, shape or form (eg Red Crested Skinks didn't make it into Lizard book, but have appeared in Lustria)- this could be entirely possible , I remember that the "advanced" rules were a hot topic back before 4th ed appeared. Whatever it is, I'm sure it'll be a good addition to the collection - out of all the old 2nd ed rulebooks I still often re-read the Wargear book, looking for funky ideas to revive into 4th ed.

pricetb
13-07-2005, 07:30
From what Iv'e been reading on the Dakkadakka boards the WH40K:Wargear is going to be a boxed set of plastic wargear bits. Dunno if it's true or not but that seems to be the consensus.

Starkey
13-07-2005, 10:17
it could be similar to 2nd edition wargear book that came with the 40k box set??

Inquis. Jaeger
13-07-2005, 10:35
That Wargear book was brilliant. Totally insane, given the amount of different rules, but brill all the same

Lord Gordonis
13-07-2005, 11:05
just been on B&C site have a look at this topic and picture of a BT http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79554

Dante
13-07-2005, 11:14
Yeah, found here on Po.... WarS... No, Portent! :D months ago. ;)

Lord Gordonis
13-07-2005, 11:18
ah ok didnt know that cheers

MrAnderson
13-07-2005, 12:16
A book with the rules and stat lines for all the different races weapons would be fantastic.

Malakai
13-07-2005, 12:38
A book with the rules and stat lines for all the different races weapons would be fantastic.

But what about the weapons that are under review? Shurican Catapaults come to mind.

Malakai

Inquis. Jaeger
13-07-2005, 12:50
A book with the rules and stat lines for all the different races weapons would be fantastic.

I'd say Orks need to get one of these in their Codex before a separate book comes out... :D

Samoth
13-07-2005, 12:57
The reprints do have them, a friend bought an ork codex recently and the summary is on the back page.

That's a lot of things on the list, and a problem occurs to me - Shelf Space. If we can expect similar treatment for blood angels, space wolves and dark angels, what minis will we lose from stores to fit in marines?