PDA

View Full Version : Necrons, the warp, Daemons and possession



Zapp Brannigan
11-09-2006, 16:03
This is an excerpt from the "Necron Conclusion" for the Medusa V campaign.


The glittering figure looked upward, and the Herald of the Storm noticed that it gave the briefest shudder as if the warp energies were leaching the warmth from its body. Then the gaze returned. “You know the price of failure and have sealed your own fate,” it said, a smile growing on its face. “You are my Storm Herald and so you will remain, anchored here as these baleful waves break upon this world.” Its smile was fully formed now.

“I have lingered here long enough and have more fruitful enterprises elsewhere.” It made a simple gesture, and the other Necrontyr and their devices glimmered briefly and winked away.

“Should vitality remain after the Warp entities have picked at your essence, I shall return. Eventually.” The smile now widened viscously. “Then, your true punishments will begin...” Another gesture, and the mercurial god shimmered in the air and the Herald was alone.


If the entites of the warp are capable of picking at SH's essence, couldn't they corrupt it, even possess it? Doesn't this mean that Necrons are just as capable of weaknesses to Chaos shiz that every other mortal is, just in a machine way? Could make for an interesting Iron Warriors plot :evilgrin:

Secondly, does this mean that the warp is physically damaging (or at least, discomforting) to the C'Tan? How would raw Warp stuff interact with the essence of a C'Tan, and is it even similar enough to the other 'essences' of the material realm to be possessed, mutated, or even picked at?

EDIT: And about the spoiler, I just wanted to be safer than sorry :p

Plague Lord
11-09-2006, 16:12
I think that Daemons could feast on the essence of a necron lord but couldn't possess him. Normal warriors don't have souls but I believe that lords have a fraction. The warp surely is unnerving to the c'tan as they aren't gods of the warp and the warp is unnerving for everything.

Khaine's Messenger
11-09-2006, 16:19
If the entites of the warp are capable of picking at SH's essence, couldn't they corrupt it, even possess it?

That depends, yet again, on what you define as essense. Given that we have seen machines possessed before, though, it is not beyond the realm of possibility. Although the fact that the Storm Lord apparently still has his essense is confusing, since the transformation of the Necrontyr into the Necrons supposedly involved the C'tan going on massive feeding binges, and they do indeed feed on essense...so....


Could make for an interesting Iron Warriors plot :evilgrin:

Really? I was more thinking Dark Mechanicus. But I guess if you don't wear power armor you don't count. ;)


Secondly, does this mean that the warp is physically damaging (or at least, discomforting) to the C'Tan?

Yes. Hypothesis range from the "too much air in a balloon" to all points beyond. The warp is a gigantic energy soup that is far too un-ordered for the C'tan to be able to exist within it without their containment vessel as a mediator, and even then it may fail catastrophically at some point.


is it even similar enough to the other 'essences' of the material realm to be possessed, mutated, or even picked at?

Yes. However, given that warp manipulation can be done through geometric manipulation, a C'tan could probably turn itself into a fractal or other form that would quickly dissipate such attempts after a bit of time (recall the explanation of why Gift of Chaos works on them).

Iuris
11-09-2006, 16:25
A good question.

In my view, the whole Necrontyr race was killed, their energy devoured by the C'tan, their minds transferred into their unliving bodies and their souls cast adrift in the warp as it was with all others. I feel it would be unlikely that the robotic bodies could sustain a living soul (see below, though=

Whether the warp was already a dangerous place at the time is unclear, as the exact timeline is not available. Possibly, it happened before the warp entities turned predatory. The fate of the Necrons' original souls is thus unclear.

The fact that they still exist is another question - if the souls were not separated from the bodies during the transfer, the Necrons might posess their original souls. Otherwise, they could be soulless, or perhaps their new bodies as new lifeforms have formed a new soul later.

Either way, one thing is certain. It shouldn't matter - the warp can warp and posess inanimate matter too.

Iuris
11-09-2006, 16:31
Although the fact that the Storm Lord apparently still has his essense is confusing, since the transformation of the Necrontyr into the Necrons supposedly involved the C'tan going on massive feeding binges, and they do indeed feed on essense...so....

I noticed this, too. However, the new necron bodies certainly have an essence in the same sense that their biological bodies had. They have bodies, energy flows through them - they have a pattern the C'tan could consume once again. Though it is probably just as bland as a raw star ;)

ryng_sting
11-09-2006, 17:08
We already know Necron Lords have a fraction of the sentience they once had as truly living beings. It isn't much; ithey can't so much emote, but recall the emotions they once had. In all, this is not enough to attract the attention of Chaos. But once Chaos is done with the other lifeforms on Medusa V they're going to have time on their hands; and once they come across a curiosity like the Herald of the Storm...

The C'tan eat electromagnetism. This is wholly distinct from a person's warp-self, or 'soul', which is a reflection of their depth of wisdom, depth of sensory perception and depth of feeling. I doubt a Chaos entity could possess a Necron, however.

The warp is anathaema to a C'tan, as we already know, so the Deceiver's reaction is hardly surprising. He fears meeting the business end of a Talisman of Vaul for a reason.

Vosk
11-09-2006, 21:33
I like the way that the Deceiver just vanished from the planet. If teleporting is that easy then realistically warp-weaponry will be useless against him because he can just vanish whenever he feels threatened. Smooth.

Trinary
12-09-2006, 05:30
I like the way that the Deceiver just vanished from the planet. If teleporting is that easy then realistically warp-weaponry will be useless against him because he can just vanish whenever he feels threatened. Smooth.

Consider a universe with infinate dimensions... We live in three, each one has energy (as figured by momentum)... Consider Warhammer 40k, where there is at least another dimension (the warp), with its own energies... The original Necrotyr had no connection to those other dimensions, unlike the Ancients who relied on it for their power. The Necrontyr, in an attempt to harness a power to defeat the ancients find a source (C'tan) that uses our three dimensions of energy in the same way as the Ancients use the warp. Having no "warp" nature the Ca'tan can not maintain their form (and thus their being) in the warp any more than a deamon can do so in our dimensions (it is not Slaanesh, Tzentch, Nurgle, or Korn who manifest, but their avatars after all)... The manifestation of one of these antithesis beings must then be subject to our dimensional laws... A warp storm is the bleeding of the warp dimension into our three dimensions... Thus the Necron Lord could be torn apart in the warp equivilant to what a bolter might do to a deamon manifestation. The Necron technology to build pylons which insulate from the warp is really no different then deamons creating deamon worlds (only with different dimensional laws to work with).

Metaphysics 101. That or GW is just trying to ensure they can maintain the angst between the livign races and the Necrons and C'tan...

El_Machinae
12-09-2006, 11:20
We've often thought of the Warp to be damaging to the C'tan. Whether the Warp gains energy by 'picking and eating' parts of the C'tan, we don't know. Is it feeding off of the C'tan, like a fire feeds off of a house? Or is it merely corrupting the C'tan, like a fire would corrupt a piece of metal (warping it)?

azimaith
12-09-2006, 11:53
Well more likely its like being trapped in a cage. A C'tan in the warp is out of his element, like a human trapped underwater, and can't sustain himself like normal.

Griffin
12-09-2006, 12:02
Don't Farseers and Librarians use the warp for their powers ? Isn't that why Eldar were created to combat the necrons ? Admittedly I don't know much, but I thought Eldar were created by the old ones so that the Necrons could be fought with Warp Powers, that where lethal to them.

azimaith
12-09-2006, 12:09
Warp is inimical to necrons, but inimical and lethal are not the same thing. Sending a C'tan into the warp would be like shooting an unprotected human into a vacuum. Just touching a vacuum doesn't necessarily hurt you, but prolonged exposure is ill advised.

The main reason is this, the Necrons are powered by the "echoes" of the Necrontyr. There isn't a way to physically attack it. Destroying a necrons body is like breaking a bottle of water. The insides spill out but are not damaged. You need something that will attack the essences within, enter the warp, with its streams of fast moving energy and ravening warp spawn, you can directly attack what gives the proxy body of a necron life.

Its why necrons are *so* hard to defeat with conventional forces and why the enslaver plague didn't wipe the necrons out.

According to the Deciever the "Plague" couldn't hurt us" but it was killing everything else, which is why they went into stasis.

Basically imagine this. A Necron is like a eagle, a human like a duck.

The Necron is the undisputed master of its domain in the air and the humans have little means to truly fight them. The humans can get their feet wet but don't live under water. The necron loses its advantage under water (as in "in the warp") but thats not where humans live.

Griffin
12-09-2006, 12:27
Ahhhhh - I like your analogue, nice and clear. Thanx

El_Machinae
13-09-2006, 00:55
I really like that duck/eagle analogy. It is strong.

La'mour Le Breton
13-09-2006, 01:48
didn't the old ones kind of create the warp or the eye of terror at least, to combat the necrons? then the enslavers started possessing everyone and the necrons had to hybernate till the galaxy was balanced or something along those lines?

Khaine's Messenger
13-09-2006, 01:56
didn't the old ones kind of create the warp or the eye of terror at least, to combat the necrons?

No. The warp was a medium that became agitated by their various child races which they used as weapons to combat the C'tan, though.


then the enslavers started possessing everyone and the necrons had to hybernate till the galaxy was balanced or something along those lines?

Something like that.

Kage2020
13-09-2006, 04:20
Something like that.
Which is to say, quite reasonably that, "Erm, we don't really know. Not enough information."?

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
13-09-2006, 04:46
Which is to say, quite reasonably that, "Erm, we don't really know. Not enough information."?

Get off my case, you! :p No, I was saying that's pretty much what GW said in the Necron codex. It's not a case of "we don't know" as "well, that's what I read out of it."

azimaith
13-09-2006, 05:36
Well according to the Necron codex:
The warp had always existed.
During the War in Heaven, after the Necrontyr found the C'tan, the warp became agitated with the fear, anguish, and suffering of the galactic scale war turning previously neutral warp entities into ravening monsters who clustered at the edges of warp space where it was thin to feast on the souls of those who were cast adrift after they died in the war. One of the most successful of those were the enslavers, who turned psykers into portals to let others of their kind through. The enslaver plague began destroying all life in the universe though it couldn't affect the necrons that way (they weren't alive and they were not psykers) so the C'tan went into stasis so that the enslaver plague could die away and that the galaxy would throw up new life for them to consume at a later time.

As for the Eye of Terror, way post War In Heaven. The Eye of Terror was formed from Slanneshes birth cries which decimated the Eldar Empire.

Buttons
13-09-2006, 19:35
Or consider the C'tan to being in effect absolute order, as evidenced by their robotic minions. The Warp is itself chaos, the antithesis of order. The younger races (Eldar, Humankind, Orks) all dabble in both to some degree, and thus are not truly threatened by chaos or order in and of itself.

Now if you take said C'tan, or Necron, ultimately Order creatures, and then introduce it into the epitome of chaos, the warp, wht would happen to that Order? Would it not fairly rapidly disolve as it is over come?

Since the C'tan are energy beings, and such that they maintain their own cohesion they must again create Order about themselves, entering into an environment where thei concept of order doesn't exist would mean they could not maintain that cohesion and they would just disolve into nothingness...

Vosk
14-09-2006, 16:36
Unless they imposed Order onto the Chaos? Afterall, if the Chaos can impose Chaos onto Order then it is logical that the reverse is also possible. A nice idea, but not really where the fluff is heading I think.

Buttons
14-09-2006, 16:41
Oh doubtlessly they'd be attempting to extend order, but given what we know of the warp, it's so overwelming, it'd be like throwing a chunk of limestone into water. It'd hodl together for a bit and create ripples, but will quickly breakdown.

Kage2020
14-09-2006, 16:49
Unless they imposed Order onto the Chaos? Afterall, if the Chaos can impose Chaos onto Order then it is logical that the reverse is also possible. A nice idea, but not really where the fluff is heading I think.
Well, Chaos is already a projection of long-term order into a chaotic (or Chaotic) medium, surely?

Kage