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Vegeta365
12-09-2006, 18:13
Hi

I was just wondering how people are going to play with Night Goblins with the new rules in the army book?

What is the preferance

40 strong unit with spears and full command or
30 strong unit with spears, full command and nets or
Something else?

Are people using six models on the front or only 5?

How many fanatics? 3 always seems great but is it too much and too expensive at 75pts?

With three fanatics and either of the unit ideas the unit will cost around 250pts. Is this worth it when for that many points you could be getting a unit of black orks?

All opinions and advice would be great as I am starting a new 2000pts O&G army from scratch. I am probably going to use the night goblins from the skull pass box with the new £50 box that comes out soon, but have many decisions to make before the army is fully decided.

DirtJumper
13-09-2006, 02:53
Really, the Night Gobbos are getting a bit nerfed in the new book, their price increasing by 50% without any extra benifits, and not being able to take extra characters. But 1 or 2 Fanatics in units of 25 would probrably be enough. Maybe 30 if you really want the outnumber and ability to turn in combat if you get flanked, but 25 is generally good for this against low-mid shooty armies. Spears are ok, but bring up the cost another 50% from the original points value, making your Gobbos 1 point cheaper than an Ork. Definatly not worth it IMO.

whiteshields1830
13-09-2006, 02:57
:eek: wow, really?

damn...and here i was thinking that a night goblin army would be viable.

So night gobbos with spears are a no no? then why did i get BFSP ...-_-...

General Veers
13-09-2006, 12:30
I'm still going to makeup a night goblin army. Even if they've gotten more expensive and it's no longer an army with many no-brainer choices. This is my "fun" army. Winning is the goal but not the point. I'm coming at this from building elf and Lizardman armies. So building an all night goblin (or all goblin as I'll be using spider riders a lot until the Hoppers get purchased) force I feel spoilt for choices! ;)

They're not as much a horde as Skaven once the new O&G book is released. And it seems the previous "tricks" to the Night Goblin horde was low cost + many characters. I have to admit, I would prefer to have more characters.

I think spears will be useful against elves and other low T enemies. Or maybe I'll stick with the hand weapon + Shield combo. Whatever the mood of the army general is at that moment, they'll use. Besides night goblins are still cheap enough that other items can be fielded still. It doesn't seem so bad to me since I'm starting from scratch. Once I have the army together and if they increase the cost again? Oh, wait, I'll just play with them using Armies of Arcana (http://www.thanesgames.com) great forum here (http://rajdhillon.forumup.ca/index.php?mforum=rajdhillon). :p

Hoppers being skirmishers now, Squig Herds simply being fun when all their night goblin handlers are gone, Animosity, I mean come on, what's more refreshing than a potentially uncontrollable army? It's more chaotic than Chaos! :D

The more night goblins the better so I'm going with units of 40+ with one or two fanatics in each. The number I'm going to shoot for may be 50 each, to keep the elven fear down a bit. At 50, I can be 10 wide and still afford to loose 10 goblins. Just for spite, I many field a big unit of 80+ night goblins with a Black Orc Big Boss one day! :evilgrin:

The important point I think is to build enough maneuver units and during the game protect the flanks.

I'm also going to be building a rite proper O&G force too, because orcs like to bash 'eads so when I'm in that kind of mood look out...

marv335
13-09-2006, 12:42
it's a bit harsh to use the term "nerfed"
the points have gone up 50%, but that's 1 point.
netters have gotten better, and iirc if you compare them equipment/points wise from the old army book they are the same.

Avian
13-09-2006, 13:03
Wha'? How are they the same?


I guess I'll be fielding units of 20-25 with either shields, spears and shields or short bows. Musicians are compulsory and I may possibly add a Fanatic. I don't want to spend 35 pts on nets, regardless of how good they are.

The goal is to keep the cost low and using them as support for the Orcs.

Vegeta365
13-09-2006, 16:47
Quote:

I guess I'll be fielding units of 20-25 with either shields, spears and shields or short bows. Musicians are compulsory and I may possibly add a Fanatic. I don't want to spend 35 pts on nets, regardless of how good they are.

The goal is to keep the cost low and using them as support for the Orcs.


I would not agree with this. Testing in my area has shown that units with no extras (no matter how large) are rubbish. Yes those nets are 35pts, but they are very good (and very orky fun too). I would say you need 2 fanatics and I'd like 3 if testing prooves they need it. The spears are well worth it, if it helps them in the game for a point a model don't you think? If you move them forward to within 8'' let the fanatics hit and then wait there to be charged them spears are surely gonna help? I'm thinking 8wide as it allows them all to attack against a lot of things eg cavalry (6 will nearly always attack). But as I said im still developing and only really beginning playtesting so these are just some thoughts. All other ideas and tips would be great!

General Veers
13-09-2006, 18:07
Vegeta265,

I think Avian is using the goblins as support troops for the Orcs? In that case smaller units may be better as the Orcs are the hammer...and the anvil...and anything else that requires 'ard 'ittn!!!

A Night Goblin force without Orcs methinks would require larger units, tricked out a bit, etc.

I like the idea of 8 wide (with fanatics at least, netters at least in two units) over my initial thought of 10 wide. Thanks I'm going to steal that unit size (like a proper night goblin would) and use it.

therisnosaurus
13-09-2006, 18:34
I'll be fielding a couple of units of 42 in ranks of 7x6, with 2 fanatics and spears. why?

ranks of 7 mean you get corner to corner with every other unit of 5 wide troops, meaning 14 potential attacks being charged. As most units can't kill more than 5 goblins, that means even against t4 troops I have a decent chance of killing something, and I'll pretty much always get ranks and outnumber. Not to mention, one of these units will have scarsnick and the other a big boss, so they can dish out the pain as well.. My planned army is thus

Heroes
scarsnick

shaman lord

BSB

shaman

shaman



Core (all gobbos are night)

40 gobbos, spears, nets, 2 fanatics, full command (scarsnick
41 gobbos, spears, nets, 2 fantatics, full command (BSB)
35 gobbos, spears, full command
35 gobbos, spears, full command
4x 20 gobbos, musician, HW/shield
5x 20 gobbos, shortbows, musician
4x 10 spider riders, full command
1x 10 wolf riders, full command
4x 5 wolf riders, musicians, shortbows
(wolf riders will be converted from 'wolf spiders', beefed up and more lanky looking spiders)

Special:

2x stone throwers (using trolls from the SASP box as the rock huckers)

Rare:
3 trolls
3 trolls
1 giant

Frankly
14-09-2006, 08:56
I'll be running my usual 7 frontal with 5 deep, standard, no musican and 6 nets if they're any good for their points, if not, I'll loose the nets and go for fanatic's.

I rarely run with alot of fanatic's, but this could change due to the points increase of netters and rank and file troops.

Nets aren't really 35pts are they? Thats crazy if they are? What do they do for that price increase?

warlord hack'a
14-09-2006, 09:44
here's what rumours say:

roll a d6 at the start of the combat: on a 1 or 2 the night gobbo's are -1S on a 3-6 the enemy has -1 S. Nasty for taking out the punch from a charge, but you will still die most likely as you have hardly any armour save...

The Blue Knight
14-09-2006, 14:01
As a fellow player who is going to start a new NG army just for kicks I can't say that I would spend the points on netter option. I would just invest in more NG's if I am worried about taking wounds.

More = better with hordes right?

Rikkjourd
14-09-2006, 14:17
The way I see it the netters compensate for the lack of light armour. 35pts is not that bad compared to 1pt per model for LA, which would be 30-40pts for most goblin regiments anyway.

Sureshot05
14-09-2006, 14:36
It depends, in a Night Goblin horde you have units of varying sizes. My main central unit remains 8 wide and 7 deep with hw/s and the Great Sorceror Shaguman in charge of the unit, and I'll be buying netters for that unit. For units smaller than 40 models, no nets as I'm trying to get a horde.

And as I'm losing a lot of troops from the battlefield (110+), I doubt that I'll be keen on purchasing the netter upgrade any time soon.

Vegeta365
14-09-2006, 15:57
Quote:

here's what rumours say:

roll a d6 at the start of the combat: on a 1 or 2 the night gobbo's are -1S on a 3-6 the enemy has -1 S. Nasty for taking out the punch from a charge, but you will still die most likely as you have hardly any armour save...


Ummm, actually there is no need for rumours. It's only on a 1 that the gobbos lose 1 strength, 2-6 and the opponents do! No need for rumours as I would assume most people have actually read the army book now. Its been in games workshops for over a week now and the majority of them have no problem with letting people read it from cover to cover. All in all it is a great book.

ardude
14-09-2006, 18:09
the entire unit gets em wand can use them every combat.
roll a dice on a 1 you get -1 strength on a 2-6 the opponent gets -1 strength.
pritty good in coombination with shield it would practicly give you T4 and a 5+ save

T10
14-09-2006, 18:17
I'll be fielding a couple of units of 42 in ranks of 7x6, with 2 fanatics and spears.


I like your style!

The only thing about the Night Goblins is that they lack armour, but then again they are cheap.

-T10

therisnosaurus
14-09-2006, 19:13
The only thing about the Night Goblins is that they lack armour, but then again they are cheap.

indeed, also, don't forget that most units will be getting a max of 6 attacks on the charge. Even if you kill six goblins, I get 9 attacks back :D, as many as a normal spearman unit that hasn't suffered any casualties :P.

The only thing you gotta watch for is things like witch elves or khorne warriors with two hand weapons. But that's what you've got spider riders for (charge me frenzy boy! I dares ya!... FLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE)

GWvsJohn
14-09-2006, 23:19
Hey all, just getting into O&G when the new book comes out. I'm in love with new NG hero with 2 handed axe, so I plan on making a mostly NG force. My initial thought (after reading all the new book rumors) was to have a few big blocks of NG with hw/shield, nets and fanatics to act as a buffer to add ranks, then interspersed with some smaller, heavier hitting units like giants, trolls, chariots (black?) to cause the wounds. Keep the blocks fairly centered near the general and BSB. Is this a viable option?

Wolfgang
15-09-2006, 00:42
I played a pure Goblin army in 5th edition, they were useless if I played them the way they should play, and not nearly as much fun as they are supposed to be if I played them 'competitively'.
When 6th edition came around, a pure Goblin army became very, very unattractive, especially if you are faced (as I am) with mostly extra-heavy armor elites and mega-über characters all the way for opponents.......

If the 7th edition version is anything like the previous ones, you want as narrow a frontage as possible ( = 5), in an effort to minimize damage, since they will be outclassed 99% of the time......
For the same reason, I wouldn't worry too much about options such as nets, your Night Gobbos are basically a Fanatic delivery system, shove them forward as fast as they'll go, and hope for the best.....

warlord hack'a
15-09-2006, 11:20
[QUOTE=Wolfgang;944061]If the 7th edition version is anything like the previous ones, you want as narrow a frontage as possible ( = 5), in an effort to minimize damage, since they will be outclassed 99% of the time......
QUOTE]

which is why you need them wide: enemy will be max 6 wide, if you are wider you get more chace of attacking back.. This is for combat units of gobbo's, if you want to delievr fanatics then 20-25 non-armed gobo's will be enough. Even better: combine them: put the fanatic delivery to the front, have them being run over so the enemy ends up in fron of your 2nd line of gobbo units and then charge the enemy unti from 3 directions at once. You will have superior numbers, you them to get combined charges or your gobbo force will be taken apart unit by unit.

Scythe
15-09-2006, 11:33
Exactly. A frontage of 5 means that the opponent can get 7 20mm base models in contact, or 6 25mm base models. Ever saw anyone with units of 8 or more models on 20mm bases (or 7 on 25mm bases)? Not likely except for archers. So, you could just as well go ahead and make your unit 6 or 7 models wide to get some extra attacks.

Spoonie
17-09-2006, 14:53
I was thinking about making a night gobbo list with a few packs of 36 gobbos, run 6x6, but I hadn't thought to give them spears. Seems like a good idea when ranking up that wide, but on the other hand you're still gaining an attack, and with nets they actually get to use their full 5+ save alot, which I think would come in handy. Apples and oranges, I guess. 30-40 points a unit for basically 7 free (goblin) attacks every round but 1 worse save.

On a different subject, I was thinking of testing out said list with Skarsnik and a couple shaman with a BSB, but got to thinking I might want to model up a goblin warboss of my own to use aswell, but I can't think of what to give him. My gut instinct would to go for a sneaky character-killer with killing blow or something, just because it seems gobliny, but on the other hand just giving him the -3 save dagger and maybe an amulet of protectyness wouldn't make him that bad against rank and file or the occasional hero (maybe). It's hard to pass up Skarsnik though, highest leadership you can get on a night gobbo, AND he's a caster with a wicked bound spell, especially in all goblin armies.

Khorneflakes
18-09-2006, 10:38
hey Therisnosaurus u might wanna check your list out, 3 rare choices! sum people might notice that!

T10
18-09-2006, 11:20
Even better: combine them: put the fanatic delivery to the front

Actually, put the units with fanatics *behind* the larger units tooled up for fighting.

When the first line is charged the fanatics are released from the second-line units. They pass through or end up inside the Night Goblins in the first line. In the latter case they are placed on the opposite side of the unit, in other words: all the fanatics are likely to end up in front of the first Night Goblin unit.

Though this means the Night Goblins are likely to suffer some casualties, I'd like to see the unit of Chosen Chaos Knights of Khorne that can survive 3d6 (or more!) S5 hits...

Actually, I wouldn't like to see that. It boggles the mind.

-T10

jullevi
18-09-2006, 12:29
hey Therisnosaurus u might wanna check your list out, 3 rare choices! sum people might notice that!

That does not look like a 2000pts army, does it?

Hochdorf
18-09-2006, 12:44
I'm thinking of starting a Goblin army, and I need some advice. Three of my friends play very "shooty" armies - one WE, one DE, and one Dwarf. They all employ masses of missile units and a lot of warmachines in the case of the DE and Dwarfs...

How can a poorly armoured, fairly slow horde army with horrendous Ld like goblins even expect to cross the table against armies that just lines up and shoots you to death? My Bretonnians could rely on their spead and heavy armour to get into combat (and usually win). My beastmen were popping up on different table edges thanks to their special rules, and they have a lot of skirmishers and decent toughness which helps. But does someone have advice for playing goblins against Wood Elf, Dark Elf, or Dwarf missile-based armies? Even big units of 40 goblins are going to get ripped apart by that number of longbows, re-xbows, or handguns... not to mention the warmachines.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Scythe
18-09-2006, 12:59
Numbers, quite frankly. Gobbo armies should literally have hundreds of models. And who really cares about those longbows and crossbows? What can they really do, kill a 3 pts goblin? Even if they get to fire all 6 turns, they will usually be unable to be worth their investment. Just take large units and spread characters out to minimize the impact of panic.

Spoonie
18-09-2006, 13:47
Yeah usually just having too many goblins to shoot at is the solution there. The other option of course is to load up on war machines yourself. 2 Doom divers, 2 rock lobbas and 2 spear chukkas is pretty daunting, especially backed up by a heavy gobbo magic phase. Then they have to worry about the 200 goblins coming their way...

Hochdorf
18-09-2006, 14:45
So, I have a lot of painting to do. :D

My last army was World Eaters, so it seems like I'll have to adjust from thinking about quality to a more quantity-based approach.


On a side note, what do you think about netters and fanatics? Are they worth including? You can buy a lot of extra Goblins for the points cost of upgrading your units with these extras...

And what about trolls? I was thinking of including one or two units of them to give the army a bit more "punch" in close combat... Are they any good in your experience?

Spoonie
18-09-2006, 17:22
Here's the deal with trolls, they're great, but unfortunatly they're also extremely stupid without a black orc hero to lead them around. Go with giants instead if you need punch out of your rare.

TheDirtyHippy
20-09-2006, 08:27
Yeah, so you guys are behind the times...

The goblins cost 3 points now... But they come with either bows or shields and spears for free.

Hope that helps. It better, you gits.

Spoonie
20-09-2006, 09:23
They don't get spears for free, and it's not better, it's exactly the same except you're forced to buy different upgrades.

Avian
20-09-2006, 09:37
On a side note, what do you think about netters and fanatics? Are they worth including? You can buy a lot of extra Goblins for the points cost of upgrading your units with these extras...
I sometimes include a single Fanatic in some of my NG units, but it's been ages since I have taken more than one in each. Take more and you make the gobbos too many easy VPs for the opponent. I also feel that netters are too expensive.



And what about trolls? I was thinking of including one or two units of them to give the army a bit more "punch" in close combat... Are they any good in your experience?
I have started fielding a pair or trolls in two units of one Troll each, and they actually seem quite useful if you keep them within 12" of the (Orc) General.