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Slazton
12-09-2006, 21:50
Now I seem to recall a long time ago some one bringing this up on Portent and I was wondering. What do other people think Chaos Undivided actually is.

Now I know of two theories:

One being that the Four Gods are in fact not seperate entities, but actually four pieces of a whole that reflect upon Chaos Undivided. Also it works with the anme set as well. If you follow Chaos Undivided, you respect the four gods and take them into yourself and operate with their knoweledge. So in short, the Four Chaos Gods are One God, but with Four sides.

The other being that Chaos Undivided is turning your back on the Chaos Gods, as in not following a single one, but just paying homage when needed. So you would pay homage to Tzeentch when you need to come up with a sneaky plan and thank Khorne when your troops break through the enemy lines etc. Not neccasarily worshipping them, just paying homage as you go when the time is right.

Personally I see this as four faces of One Entity, but I want to know what other people think....

Buttons
12-09-2006, 21:57
Well, there is always the multiple personality way of looking at it...

Mondays you bloodthirsty.
Tuesdays you're a bit cunning about hiding the bodies.
Wednesdays you're a bit horny, so dig up those bodies.
Thursdays you find out you're a bit sick, probably from the necrophilia,
leading us back to Monday! (Shut up, everyone knows Chaos only has 4 days in the week!).

susu.exp
12-09-2006, 22:03
Your tongue has 4 regions, for sour, sweet, salty and bitter. Like the 4 gods of chaos. Chaos undivided would be like the taste of something. You could figure out that it contains elements of all 4, but in the end it tastes like an apple.

cav da man
13-09-2006, 20:46
Your tongue has 4 regions, for sour, sweet, salty and bitter. Like the 4 gods of chaos. Chaos undivided would be like the taste of something. You could figure out that it contains elements of all 4, but in the end it tastes like an apple.

not true i remember something about another sense that sounded strange, like umame (no idea on spelling) which was supposed to be the type of thing you get in parmizan cheese and such.


Well, there is always the multiple personality way of looking at it...

Mondays you bloodthirsty.
Tuesdays you're a bit cunning about hiding the bodies.
Wednesdays you're a bit horny, so dig up those bodies.
Thursdays you find out you're a bit sick, probably from the necrophilia,
leading us back to Monday! (Shut up, everyone knows Chaos only has 4 days in the week!).

sing the happy days song! Monday tuesday killing days, tuesday wednesday sneaky days!,thursday friday horny days! Saturday what a day grooving all week with you!

Khaine's Messenger
13-09-2006, 21:14
Personally I see this as four faces of One Entity, but I want to know what other people think....

The One Entity approach is untennable from any perspective other than purely conceptual--most Chaos worshippers come to their faith for far more immediate results than worship of such a mercurial entity. Otherwise, Chaos Undivided is all those things and more. Chaos Undivided is a term to dump on things other than the Big Four...which is a shame, but them's the breaks when you've got the Big Four and their various influences described to such a dominant degree. If anything you would think that Chaos Undivided would be the vast majority of Chaos forces and by far the least capable of definition, but it's much easier to have some prepackaged notions with Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh. But of course, since those are the most powerful of the dominant entities, it's not surprising they are actively trying to rope people in....

Easy E
13-09-2006, 21:28
I see Chaos Undivided as a catch all for all of the smaller Warp/Daemonic entities that can effect the mortal realm. They are individual warp distrubances brought on by other emotions or feelings not covered by the big four, or are naturally occuring denizens of the warp.

Edit: I guess I said the same thing as Khaine's Messenger.

Commander Ozae
13-09-2006, 22:05
I see Chaos Undivided not as a God but as the primal force of just plain chaos. It is the warp thrown out of balance because of the emotions of the younger races and has no intelligence or greater design. The four gods reflect the dominant emotions of the younger races but are also chaotic so are aspects of Chaos Undivided. Just my personal view.

susu.exp
13-09-2006, 22:28
not true i remember something about another sense that sounded strange, like umame (no idea on spelling) which was supposed to be the type of thing you get in parmizan cheese and such.


Umami. My knowledge of vertebrate senses has just been expanded and I flew over an abstract in Nature describing the identification of the Umami-taste-receptor. Interesting stuff. There might be one for fatty acids as well, where a receptor has been found in mice, but no human analog has yet been discovered. Messes up my analogy or course, unless they bring Malal back *g*

Edit: Found another paper suggesting that the Unami-taste receptor is in fact the sweet receptor as well and Unami is therefore equivalent to sweet. - There might be only 4 after all.

Zzarchov
13-09-2006, 22:45
I view it as a way for them to unify chaos model sales, rather than make it so that someone with Khorne Berserkers couldn't take Slaanesh Noise marines. But they throw the bone in explaining (in a sentance) it can also be used to represent the hordes of Lesser Chaos gods (eg, the Horned Rat in Fantasy) as the line between Daemon and god is (or used to be) a progression.

Urza
14-09-2006, 09:48
The worship of Chaos Undivided is explained by the Word Bearers character in Daemon World by Ben Counter.

Each of the 4 Gods are worshipped. Each God has times when it is 'the leader of the pack' as it were, and other times when it is the weakest of the pantheon. Undivided Worship involves worshipping each God when it is at it's most powerful, but never to the extent that you give yourself over entirely to that God. This way, you are always powerful!

Adrian_MalSeraph
14-09-2006, 15:22
I think that Chaos Undivided is simply worshipping the four Chaos gods equally, never truly devoting oneself to a god.

You could look at it as kindof a renaissance man.

Basically, an Undivided marine is a tough (Nurgle), ferocius(Khorne), persuasive(Slaanesh), sneaky(Tzeentch) person, who on occasion can use psychic powers.

Xander-K
14-09-2006, 20:25
I think that Chaos Undivided is simply worshipping the four Chaos gods equally, never truly devoting oneself to a god.

You could look at it as kindof a renaissance man.

Basically, an Undivided marine is a tough (Nurgle), ferocius(Khorne), persuasive(Slaanesh), sneaky(Tzeentch) person, who on occasion can use psychic powers.
actually no, they don't get any real "gifts" from the gods as such because they aren't devoted enough to any one of them (i.e. they keep a professional distance).

They just do the work of chaos without siding with any one facet, it is possible they are more like mercenaries to the chaos gods rather than actual cult/religious follows (excluding word bearers). So if a God asks them to slaughter X number of civilians they will have access to said Gods daemons for an important battle of their own.

Seerluminatti
14-09-2006, 21:50
The warp is a realm of energy stirred into many forms by the unbridled exuberance of the psychic races and their emotional behaviour within the material realm we conventionally occupy. Through the reinforcement and reenactment of certain characteristics through the actions of 'us' certain forms become stronger and stronger until they can coalesce into a direct manifestation of those characteristics, with a sentience and influence all their own. In this way, through being comprised of rather primal characteristics from the material realm, the four Chaos Gods came into power and the multitudes of their lesser minions came into being. But the creation of focal points for certain characteristics doesnt eliminate the fact that Chaos, and the warp as a whole, is NOT comprised solely of these focal points.

While there are chaos worshippers who adhere to the characteristics of their favoured patron God, thus propogating the conditions to strengthen their God. through dedicating themself to a particular God, they can receive specialized favours in the form of mutations both physical and mental as well as the benefit of demons which embody their God's strengths.

There are many who see the sheer power within the warp and Chaos as a whole and dedicate their lives to worshipping this undivided power, utilizing a variety of skills and dedicated worshippers of each God as the situation demands.

This is best embodied in Abbadon the Despoiler, who received the favours of all the Chaos Gods in turn to create the dynamic and ever changing Black Legion, capable of drawing upon the vast resources of every Chaos power. This is not the only way to worship Chaos undivided, but given Abbadon's results, its possibly the most effective for those seeking power through Chaos.

La'mour Le Breton
14-09-2006, 22:21
i think thats the best way to look at the chaos gods. one god with 4 sides(maybe more if you take in to consideration all the minor gods their could be)
i know in judao-christian religion their GOD is considered to have 3 sides or something like that. considering that GW takes alot of its fluff from other sources (i wouldn't say "take" but i cant think of the correct word) this seems like what their trying to say with the chaos gods.
Why do Monotheistic(sp?) religons always spell their god with the big "G". its like our god is the only one(because we say so), so we get to capitalize him.

susu.exp
14-09-2006, 23:00
i know in judao-christian religion their GOD is considered to have 3 sides or something like that.

Only applies to christianity. The concept of Trinity doesnīt exist in the jewish tradition, because they donīt have to account for Jesus (son of god and god at the same time to christians) and the holy spirit (who came over the apostels and is god as well). Itīs a very weird concept really, because the holy spirit was ordered by god (i.e. himself, because the holy spirit is god) to impregnate mary, who then gave birth to Jesus (i.e. god again). So god told god to father god. To make matters worse Jesus says "Father, why hast thou forsaken me", which means he feels abandoned by god, while at the same time being god. I whish I could recall the source of the quote, but he has been called "the only openly atheist deity" for that reason. Religion is a lot like sex (to keep with the stretched analogies): It looks extremely ridiculous from the outside, but the personal importance of it makes you quite inable to realize that while youīre going.