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Darish
13-09-2006, 15:38
Sorry about my english, why the DA armor become green when there was black in Rouge Trader. Why GW change the color?

Isambard
13-09-2006, 15:46
I am not 100% sure on this, but as the Sons of Horus became the Black Legion, GW couldn't have 2 armies with such similar colours.

Kriegsherr
13-09-2006, 15:52
eeeerhm, and what about the raven guard or iron hands then?
:)

sliganian
13-09-2006, 15:54
The Real Story was in WD. Basically, there was a WD cover that had a Dark Angel with a lot of 'green glow' hitting the armour. Someone thought that looked 100% better than the existing scheme, hence the change to 'Dark Angels Green'.

The Backstory was adjusted with some words that they repainted it after the Heresy (iirc). Check the Index Astartes.

Yahuboo
13-09-2006, 15:55
IIRC it is to do with something concerning the fallen angels

LarryS
13-09-2006, 16:00
I don't know why they picked green, but they changed their armor's color to green after half the chapter went renegade during the Horus Heresy. The only dark angels w/ black armor now are the ravenwing and the fallen.

citizenkade
13-09-2006, 16:18
Somebody give LarryS a gold star on his chart... Bow to him! His mastery of the Fluff is strong! Doesn't it say they'll go back to the old color after the Fallen are accounted for?

McBain
13-09-2006, 16:23
They changed the colour to hide the shame and anguish they felt due to the betrayel by there brothers in arms.....you wouldnt catch the glorious sons of russ doing anything like that now would you.....

cybertron2000uk
13-09-2006, 16:34
if russ found out...the lion and his chapter wouldve been killed by him....

KayvaanShrike
13-09-2006, 17:27
Did Russ not smack the Lion with a powerfist or something, hence the reason they then hated each other? Funny story lol.

I always thought it was too do with the Fallen, and they didn't want to be associated with them, so they changed their armour colour, but we all know its because the Dark Angels are emo....

Slazton
13-09-2006, 17:30
I prefer the green colour scheme and the Iron Hands aren't solid black. They have metal highlights etc.

Dark Angels went green because they wanted to disassociate themselves from the Fallen and more than likely it is a colour of their shame. An actual image of what they view themselves as unforgiven.

Wait for the new codex, it'll explain or GW will mess up again and just say: They were never black! You lie!

VetSgtNamaan
13-09-2006, 17:48
During the Great Crusade every primarch strove to excel in the eyes of the emperor and none more so than Leman Russ. Only Horus and Lion El'Jonson could lay claim to more victories and this was a cause of great frustration.

On the Planet Dulan where both Dark Angels and Space WOlves were deployed the Tyrant Durath had personally insulted the EMperor and called Russ the emperors lap dog. Russ wanted the glory of the traitors death to himself and demands Jonson stand down. Jonson having spent alot of the time previous scouting the weak points was not about to let anyone ruin his plans. He thus refused and storms the palace with relatively few casualties and while Russ was caught in the swirling melee at the base of the wall he could only watch as Jonson slayed Durath on the walls of the keep.

It was after the battle that Russ stormed into the halls and struck Jonson a blow to the head. They wrestled for a day and a night each unable to overcome the other. Then they broke and while Russ was laughing at the foolishness of the situation Jonson struck him unconscious with a single blow. With his honour now satisfied he and his legion left the planet to carry out his further plans in the great crusade. By the time Russ awoke the Jonson and the Dark Angels had left the planet.


It is now tradition that when ever they two chapters meet they each pick a champion to fight so that thier honour may be satisfied.

Chainsworded Codpiece
13-09-2006, 18:01
I used to love the DA. Good solid Anthracite Black.

The Winged Sword was red. And in RT-era, it looked more cruel, like a pair of barbed wings surmounting a downturned dirk or "cinquedea"-dagger.

I refer you to the Chapter banner shown in the 'Eavy Metal of issue #94 WD for reference.:)

Looking at DA now, with the British Forest Green and the Chapter logo in white or yellow or whatever...it just makes my teeth grit. Damn it. I still paint the DA as black. But then again, I'm a filthy traitor. I also think winged helms for Astartes look f@kken stupid.

Ah well.

Lord Flashheart
13-09-2006, 18:39
That is the fluff reasons for changing the colours. The real reason the colour changed is this.
In the Rouge Trader days the Dark Angels were black and the Salamanders were dark green. At some point I believe it was in a WD they showed a picture of a Salamander marine but it said Dark Angel.
And in true GW form they refused to admit they had made a mistake and the Dark Angels colours then changed. The Salamanders slipped out of memory and when they were brought back for the Armageddon campaign they changed their green colour, now named Dark Angels Green to the current light green.

- F -

Splagbot
13-09-2006, 18:43
Lion el Johnson blamed Leman Russ for what happened to the Emporer, he claimed that if Leman Russ hadn't stopped to fight every heretic on the way to Earth then they could have gotten there in time to stop Horus.

I always wondered why GW changed the colour, go figure.

Brothergrimm
13-09-2006, 18:57
Caliban was a heavily forested world and most ideas about the colour change I've read have the "loyal" D.A changing there armour before or just after the fall of Caliban a sort of this is what we lost was taken from us by the actions of are brother's. So D.A green is a consent reminder of what the fallen did all those long years ago.

Darish
13-09-2006, 19:20
Thanks very much for all the post, I ask about the fluff and about the real reason (why GW did it).

HiveFleetEzekial
13-09-2006, 20:21
if russ found out...the lion and his chapter wouldve been killed by him....

uhh.. no, he wouldn't. they were brothers. and closer than most of the other primarchs were to any others. their rivalry wasn't some all out war. (even the worst cae fluff says them being "brother to the end". and that one wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be)

and, one of the rumors as to russ' whereabouts.. is that he's off, trying to find Johnson, to get him "back in the game". (know theres plenty other rumors as to russ being off somewhere, but this iis one of them)


very good on the story Namaan. almost i direct, word for word quote. but that tradition, and the small rivalry they had, was put to rest durring the Eye of Terror campaigne.. by both sides. there is no more rivalry between them.

oh, and since this is about the fluff reasons for it (as well as GW's), might this fit better in the background section..?
as for the color change, IIRC, it wasn't because of a WD issue.. it was one of the dark melenium box cover (aka "let the galaxy burn" picture), that the yellow light caster over the normal black armour, gave it a green hue around the edges (yellow'll do that on black. even in paints).

Captain Stuart
13-09-2006, 20:43
Lord Flashheart has it right. Plus, it was also probably easier to photograph back in the day. GW also stopped allowing Deathwing in power armor sometime after they released photos of them around the time of the Space Marine Strike Force box set release.

VetSgtNamaan
13-09-2006, 22:20
very good on the story Namaan. almost i direct, word for word quote. but that tradition, and the small rivalry they had, was put to rest durring the Eye of Terror campaigne.. by both sides. there is no more rivalry between them.

As far as I know they put aside thier rivalry temporarily to deal with the crisis at hand. Of course that was suitably vague in time line so who knows if it will get dealt with in the new DArk Angels Codex.

Xyon
14-09-2006, 00:10
There are many reasons thought for the color change. Some are fluff reasons, others are reasons such as said above. I had thought a background reason why they changed colors was that, before the lion and his marines stormed caliban after heavy bombardment, they painted their armor green to be able to tell themselves apart from their fallen brethreren. Being that they would be wearing similar armor, armed similarly, and have the similar markings on their armor, fighting against eachother while having the same color armor would be daft as you might not know when to stop fighting.

*thwak thwak thwak* "DIE TRAITOR!"

"ouch! hey! robbert stop that! its me!"

"oh sorry brother, I didnt know it was you.."

Brother Othorio
15-09-2006, 18:39
another reason i've heard is that the artist who did the cover for space marine 1st edition (the awesome pic that was re-used for the Space Marine Strike Force box) got Dark Angels confused with Salamanders whilst painting it (i believe it was the same artist who painted the infamous 'necromunda blood angel captain' who had the blood drinkers chapter badge)

can anyone actually provide a fluffy reason complete with a canon source? (book & page number)

Son of the Lion
15-09-2006, 19:03
I often wondered about the change - I started collecting DA about the time they started to appear in green armour, and was thoroughly confused.
The fluff explanation about changing the armour colour after the caliban split always made the most sense to me, though I haven't seen a concrete canon source for the idea.
As for the GW explanation - I think the mistake thing is right, though I doubt it was something as trivial as a mis-labelled miniature. It's more likely to be the confused artist scenario (I'm fairly sure in fact that the SM boxed game coverart was the the first time I saw green DA).

Just my two pence.

As to the Russ/Lion feud - it WAS a serious rivalry, but in the way of siblings, rather than sworn enemies. They both took it seriously but were more than capable of putting their disagreements aside when neccesary.

dean
15-09-2006, 19:29
Lord Flashheart has it right. Plus, it was also probably easier to photograph back in the day.

I agree. Lord Flashheart is correct as are several others. The cover to the box Space Marine Strike Force (epic 1st ed) And the cover for WD117 (IIRC) shows space marines in a really cool green colored armor. If you look further the armor has the DA winged sword on the shoulder pads. Everyone looked at the cover and thought it was a really good color (it was darker than at that time Salamander Green) and thus it was adopted for the DA but to save time, Salamander green was substituted for the darker green/black mix. This pict pre-dates 2nd edition 40k by a couple years. (and thus is way way before the Dark Millenium DA capt. box cover)


GW also stopped allowing Deathwing in power armor sometime after they released photos of them around the time of the Space Marine Strike Force box set release.

About the time of the Deathwing supplement for Space Hulk. (edit: And also around the time of the first publication of the short story currently contained in the compilation book "Deathwing")

VetSgtNamaan
15-09-2006, 19:33
Fluff wise I think it makes perfect sense to distance yourself from the pre heresy force even if the upper echelons of the chapter are the only ones who know the reasons why. I am sure it was a mistake on GW's part but I am okay with it really since the fluff supports it you do not want to be reminded of that dark time and you do not want people mistaking you for your evil twin over there. Not to mention it is easy to get green to look cool than it is to get black to look awesome.

Chainsworded Codpiece
15-09-2006, 20:36
another reason i've heard is that the artist who did the cover for space marine 1st edition (the awesome pic that was re-used for the Space Marine Strike Force box) got Dark Angels confused with Salamanders whilst painting it (i believe it was the same artist who painted the infamous 'necromunda blood angel captain' who had the blood drinkers chapter badge)

Jim Burns did the Space Marine Epic cover. Yes, it was awesome. At the time, I was hoping the greenish tint of the armor had something to do with the "spectrum shift" of being on a world where the all-pervading light sourcce is overwhelming, and is orange-yellow...

...then I got my head out of my a&& and realized, if that were true, the Marine Officer's skin would be hued differently as well.

By the way, did anyone ever notice that the Officer is modeled entirely after Al Pacino's "Scarface" character?

Yeeeeow.

Oh, I think that the Necromunda Blood Angel fella (the one shown contemptouously chucking bolt rounds into a pack of fleeing Scavvies...is that the one?) was done by a different guy.

No, I have no canon anwer to back up the speculation. I don't think GW are ever going to admit to any mistakes made in their early-'90s growth spurt.

Hence, I don't think, if the shift was based on an initial series of mistakes, that we'll ever get evidence in print.