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mooserehab86
13-09-2006, 17:15
So I just filled out the Medusa V after-campaign survey. Not only was I disappointed with the campaign itself (not the point of this thread), I was disappointed with the survey. Only two of the eight questions were concerned with the participants' opinions of the campaign background or the way it was conducted, and those two questions were merely multiple-choice format. The rest of the questions appeared to me as being intended to help GW see if the campaign produced additional sales, and whether it attracted many new players to the hobby or if it was mostly veterans.

In addition to that, I was expecting there to be some kind of text box at the end where I could have entered some of my personal observations/criticisms/suggestions about the campaign, that they could possibly take into account when designing future campaigns. However, the survey contained only those eight multiple-choice questions, and as such it seems to me that GW isn't really concerned with what the participants actually think about the campaign.

I suppose my observations could be considered a rant, and if you see it that way I apologize. I'm wondering what your perceptions are on the subject of whether GW desires to make improvements to future world-wide campaigns, or if they are simply trying to see if their campaigns allow them to sell more goodies.

Slazton
13-09-2006, 17:27
GW is a company that has gone conservative. Look at the older White Dwarfs compared to the new editions. They are absolutely tripe and GW is just selling their products now. Not caring about what we think or what we want, they just want us to buy their stuff.

The game used to be about the players now its all about money. Go figure.

The campaign got them more money. They wanted to know if its worth doing it again so they can make more money. Thats all they seem to care about. Money.

Welcome to the Business world where corperate greed is everything and your customers are just numbers.

Black-Tooth
13-09-2006, 17:37
Where exactly is this survey? Any chance of a link?

mooserehab86
13-09-2006, 18:05
This should be it:

http://medusav.us.games-workshop.com/campaign/survey.aspx

redeye
13-09-2006, 18:30
Games Workshop appears to not listen to their customers, which is odd really I thought this was one of the mantras of any successful business

My only conclusion is that because they think they own tabletop gaming they dont have any competition but there are much bigger industries competing for their customers money, they might learn that the hard way.

Slazton
13-09-2006, 18:35
Not really. They have people like me who have been suckered in and plus GW have some sexy as models.

I can't help myself. THere is something about 40K that just makes me happy and the background is ripe.....like Star Wars, but much darker and gothic which is what makes it worth it. I just wish GW would pay attention to us.

Maybe they are.......maybe that was just a poorly concieved survey...;)

AtlantianWarrior
13-09-2006, 18:40
Thanks for the link. I went through the questions just to see that they asked. I am not going to answer the survey.

All I hear about GW is that all that they care about is the money. How we are getting bent over and taking it because how much the models cost, yet here we are still playing the game. Odds are they do not care about what we want it is what is the best way to get people to buy the models.I think I have figured out away to get GW to do what the players want. One needs alot of money to buy their way into the company. After buying your way into(which means you will have to be a major share holder)GW you can then work from the inside to get change.

There are another ways........................................

Wallace
13-09-2006, 18:56
GW is a company that has gone conservative. Look at the older White Dwarfs compared to the new editions. They are absolutely tripe and GW is just selling their products now. Not caring about what we think or what we want, they just want us to buy their stuff.

The game used to be about the players now its all about money. Go figure.

The campaign got them more money. They wanted to know if its worth doing it again so they can make more money. Thats all they seem to care about. Money.

Welcome to the Business world where corperate greed is everything and your customers are just numbers.

Well said - shining examples are their modelling supplies (glue, green stuff, static grass etc.) which I can find for half the price at my local modelling store :wtf: . I can understand why they want to charge a lot for the figures - they are pioneers in that field and the figures are good quality. But to blatently rip off it's customers for standard modelling stuff - come on GW, give us a break! :eyebrows:

BrainFireBob
13-09-2006, 19:39
It's business cycle. I've heard a few of the old vets mention GW had a similar swing in the early nineties, profit dip, then became the customer-oriented business that suckered many of US in. Maybe one of them will weigh in and confirm that.

Slazton
13-09-2006, 19:41
All of Warseer! Start buying stocks! As a unit we can take over and then make Warseer the number one website! Huzaah!

Chaos and Evil
13-09-2006, 20:33
All the results I submitted were for Epic... there's no option to say what game system you used. :(

cailus
14-09-2006, 00:27
What a pathetic survey. It really didn't go into any detail.

The Orange
14-09-2006, 00:51
In addition to that, I was expecting there to be some kind of text box at the end where I could have entered some of my personal observations/criticisms/suggestions about the campaign, that they could possibly take into account when designing future campaigns. However, the survey contained only those eight multiple-choice questions,

They did leave a e-mail address so that you could send them additional comments. Mine came out to be over a page long. I don't know if they'll read it, but at least I sent something in.

UnRiggable
14-09-2006, 00:57
yeah it didn't even ask age or sex?! :wtf:
Most info is related to how often you gamed/bought

Aegius
14-09-2006, 02:12
GW is a company that has gone conservative. Look at the older White Dwarfs compared to the new editions. They are absolutely tripe and GW is just selling their products now. Not caring about what we think or what we want, they just want us to buy their stuff.

The game used to be about the players now its all about money. Go figure.

The campaign got them more money. They wanted to know if its worth doing it again so they can make more money. Thats all they seem to care about. Money.

Welcome to the Business world where corperate greed is everything and your customers are just numbers.


I don't agree with this at all. GW has cost me in excess of 20,000 a year, but I don't begrudge them that. I don't think you can put a price on happyness. Your notions of corporate greed are just cowpoo.

Maguni
14-09-2006, 02:19
--Warning! Fanboy Detected!--

GW fanboy alert ^

What is your proof that GW actually supports any gamers that aren't kiddies/beginners?
You must not have seen a WD recently.

AtlantianWarrior
14-09-2006, 02:45
Aegius
don't agree with this at all. GW has cost me in excess of 20,000 a year, but I don't begrudge them that. I don't think you can put a price on happyness. Your notions of corporate greed are just cowpoo.

So from this statement you have more money than sence. And yes you can put a price on happyness.:D

UnRiggable
14-09-2006, 03:21
maguni, here's proof: they continue the hobby at a level that is as sophisticated as it is right now. Seriously, if they were interested in making money they would make more selling cocaine out of vans nationwide. But they don't. They continue the hobby because of the gamer. Of course they want to make more money in any possible way, but if you ran a business you would to. It only makes sense that they appeal to a larger audience, which includes adults. If you aren't satisfied with the quality of their merchandice, play a different game. But you won't and there's a good reason for that.

Slazton
14-09-2006, 03:31
I don't agree with this at all. GW has cost me in excess of 20,000 a year, but I don't begrudge them that. I don't think you can put a price on happyness. Your notions of corporate greed are just cowpoo.

I'm confused. I never said they weren't trying to run a bussiness or make money, but you admit that you spend in excess 20K? Thats more than I make in a year.

I'm sortry....look at the new White Dwarfs. Go grab an older one. LOok through its pages. See that GW used to be about the gamer. They offered quality models with ideas. They even created an Ork brawl game ffs.

Where is that creativty? Where is the drive to make the game even mroe and inventive? I don't see that anymore.......not anywhere.

I think you pretty much sum up the fact that you are either being sarcarstic or you really are diluded.

As for buying into another system? I wouldn't go that far. Not all of GW is about money, but I feel thats where they seem to have their most interests at instead of the gamer themselves.

However if you bothered to read my next post, I did say it could have been a poorly done survey generated by the Sales Marketing people.

I wouldn't doubt it for a minute as thats what it seemed to have come from.

Er UnRiggable, what of the constant price hikes when other gaming systems are cheaper? Hmmmmm what about the fact that six years ago you payed less for ten marines when now you pay more? Yes they have better modellers but these are the same people from those previous six years ago. Sure technology has risen, but doesn't explain the price hike. Not one bit.

As for keeping the 'hobby alive,' well any smart business owner knows better than to quit when they still have people by the ropes ;)

IncrediSteve
14-09-2006, 04:05
A month or so back in the GW anual report thread I read that GW has ₤114 million operating costs to ₤129 million profit. That's really ******* high operating costs. They have to be about money to some extent, or else there's no more GW. Quality has a cost. And what is it with all this rambling of selling out? Has everyone forgotten Cities of Death already? The rulebook and kits for that were phenominal, and are a sign of the amazing things to come. And all this hooplah over a survey? It's not like the entire intelectual power of GW's design team went into that. It was made buy one random web guy.

Quit whining.

Then again, I digress; this is a forum. Forums exist for peope to whine/ complain/ argue.

Have fun with that.

Outlaw289
14-09-2006, 04:19
All of Warseer! Start buying stocks! As a unit we can take over and then make Warseer the number one website! Huzaah!

But I thought money was evil :rolleyes:

Maguni
14-09-2006, 04:32
Well, I expected such a thing. Probably made by the guy who writes their poll of the week, too. What amazed me was the option of saying you visited a store less during the campaign. A choice for negative feedback was surprising (given their normal polls' notorious one-sidedness)

Nabeshin1106
14-09-2006, 05:36
Has everyone forgotten Cities of Death already? The rulebook and kits for that were phenominal, and are a sign of the amazing things to come.


I'm with this comment. I play lots of cityfight games, and the new rules and models were quite welcome. I believe that the buildings are some of the finest things I've ever seen, and if this is the kinda stuff we're gonna be seeing more of, bring it on! the amount of detail in those makes me feel like I'm being thought of by someone up there.

SonofUltramar
14-09-2006, 09:52
--Warning! Fanboy Detected!--

GW fanboy alert ^

What is your proof that GW actually supports any gamers that aren't kiddies/beginners?
You must not have seen a WD recently.

I'm assuming you don't go to a shop where you can go in on a Games Night say "hey can i use your tables, terrain and take part in your campaigns?", i'm guessing not, GW does loads for its customers but so many people are focused on price rises and comparing it to other tabletop wargaming.

The price rises are yearly but not on the same stuff, everything goes up in price and where i live (UK) the rises are marginally ahead of inflation on things and as for the final price admittedly you need to be a loon to consider doing an all metal army but i've never been impressed by more than one or two models per range done by other companies and am fine with paying the prices over a long period. As has been said before Quality Costs Money and GW are making huge strides forward with the Tech they use and are getting in to do cool stuff, see the Mumak and Balrog, two models they said couldn't be made in plastic..?

I will concede that WD has gone very commercial and is slowly but surely turning into any other hobby magazine with a few articles and loads of adverts and it is a huge let down when i look at the shops copy and wonder what happened to the fun loving people who ran it all those years ago when Bar Room Brawl was in it?

Kriegsherr
14-09-2006, 11:15
--Warning! Fanboy Detected!--

GW fanboy alert ^

What is your proof that GW actually supports any gamers that aren't kiddies/beginners?
You must not have seen a WD recently.

They would start making "heroclix" wh40k... and if you think they couldn't charge what they do now for crappy heroclix BS, think again.
Todays kids will buy poo for 100 $ if its currently "in"... and all their friends have it too.

But they continue to amaze me with new, sexy minis actually better than what you have thought to be the absolute best they could do 5 years ago.
(I have finally given in to buying the sexy new stealth suits, so bear with my excitement ;))

On the rules side I have to stay on the whiners side. The rules GW produces are crap. They were always not the best ruleset out there, but GW never did anything to make them better. They just keep "patching up leaks" and while doing it produce new leaks, instead of trashing an ill-working ruleset and develop a new one from scratch. Even though I absolutely disliked 3rd ed, it was the first time GW did what I would expect them to do all 2-3 years.... completly and mercylessly revamp the core rules and even build them up new from scratch if the last ruleset was starting to run wrong.

Other companies update their rules on a yearly base. And make FAQs.
Well, GW minis and FoW Rules combined into the ultimate game. That would be gamers paradise....

Maguni
14-09-2006, 15:58
Yeah they do a lot for people in my area, like closing their store, :eyebrows:

synapse
14-09-2006, 16:20
As for the final price admittedly you need to be a loon to consider doing an all metal army but i've never been impressed by more than one or two models per range done by other companies and am fine with paying the prices over a long period.

Have you seen Rackham models - much nicer than gw and cheaper too.


Though yes, that 'survey' really is pants. Shame the days of good surverys where a winner would be picked who'd receive one of every book and box that is currently in print. Wow. now that would be a good survey!

Gaunt
14-09-2006, 18:42
I'm confused. I never said they weren't trying to run a bussiness or make money, but you admit that you spend in excess 20K? Thats more than I make in a year.

I very much think that you have the wrong end of the stick regarding 20,000 a year.

I dont like the costs but then i think back to what the models were like 12 years ago when i started, would rather pay more for decent models then the stuff from back then.

back on the subject of the survey well it was a waste of time, like any company im sure that they can massage the figures as needed!

Spaceraider
14-09-2006, 19:04
A month or so back in the GW annual report thread I read that GW has ₤114 million operating costs to ₤129 million profit. That's really ******* high operating costs.

Unlike a lot of companies GW actually produce their product as well as the gaming/marketing side. Most companies are built off an idea they own which they can produce cheaply by contracting production out, GW doesn't have this option currently as their product is so unique that no one could set up a company that only casts models and do it cheaper and as well as GW. Once those nifty 3D printers become a bit cheaper you might see a drop in price but at the moment GW (a huge company) appears to only be able to afford a few of them...

2006's rapid 3D printing prototyper is 2010's cheap-ass model making machine...

philbrad2
14-09-2006, 19:09
Well the campaign was presented well enough and I've marked it accordingly so on the survey. It just had no pace and I think from talking to a lot of people it lost momentum towards the end. It was very poor in getting players involved and a feeling they were affecting change. The Campaign 'tables' of player victories were a big mistake IMHO. I visited a few GW's and Lenton for gaming during the campaign and fouind a number of players simply getting in games to improve their standings on the 'tables' this doesn't encourage unified actions by forces to attain an overall campaign, tournament play yes, campaign play no. Also GW's mechanism for calculating the leaders on these tables and overall faction results was farcical, it had no explaination, and just how can players with a few wins and numerous losses be high placed than player who have won every game? OK number of games played may have an effect here but one example I saw in a store was a Tau player being top with 25 losses and 2 wins - how the hell could someone take a 'lead' with results like this?

FoMV had some good points, visually it was very slick and well put together, I think the idea of running a world wide primarily narrative orientated campaign is flawed from day one. There should have been more instance of players results directly effecting goings on in warzones not just those who could also field good storylines.

Warzones - Like Armageddon before it I think the methodology of restricting the everyone to geographical warzones weighed heaviliy in the Imperium's favour. OK I saw some instance of 'national pride' surfacing when fighting in warzones but for more of a 'real world' element factions should have been allowed to field their forces globally not in nice little compartments.

This resulted in a campaign the non Imperial factions were never going to make a major dent in from day one. A very slick marketing campaign, a boost for 40K over the summer months. An event I'd looked forward to since the end of the EoT campaign was very much a damp squib. I think I'd rate FoMV below Armageddon 3, at least the other factions managed to hold the Imperium to draw here. As I said in the FoMV forums. I have been disappointed with FoMV it could have offered so much more for all players.

I see FoMV as a microcosm of GW in 2006 a very slick marketing machine, lots of flashy images and hype but is lacking in depth for those that want that little bit more.

:chrome:

jfrazell
14-09-2006, 19:10
All the results I submitted were for Epic... there's no option to say what game system you used. :(

Same here actually. I've only played like two 40K games this year, but my EPIC Eldar stomped :angel:

mooserehab86
14-09-2006, 22:22
I'm confused. I never said they weren't trying to run a bussiness or make money, but you admit that you spend in excess 20K? Thats more than I make in a year.

People need to stop commenting on this:p
I'm pretty sure (ok, I REALLY hope) he meant 2000, not 20000.

number6
14-09-2006, 22:42
I think many of you misunderstand what that simple survey was about. They just want to know if the campaign spurred us on to game more often than we usually do, and also if it spurred us on to buy more models, too. I think these are fair questions to ask. Why go to all the effort of designing and running and supporting a campaign -- which costs a significant amount of money, I'm sure -- if it doesn't increase interest in the game? All their questions were designed to find out if interest in the game went up as a result of the campaign. If the answer is "yes", then I'm sure we'll see future campaigns. If not, then they'll try and find some other way to increase interest.

I just wish they would get better site designers. The Medusa V website was TERRIBLE. You couldn't find specific opponents, the flash view of the planet was useless (and once you clicked anywhere you couldn't click anywhere else), and the like. I gave them honest answers everywhere. Summation: Campaign = Good, Website = Very Very Bad.

mooserehab86
14-09-2006, 22:52
I think many of you misunderstand what that simple survey was about. They just want to know if the campaign spurred us on to game more often than we usually do, and also if it spurred us on to buy more models, too. I think these are fair questions to ask. Why go to all the effort of designing and running and supporting a campaign -- which costs a significant amount of money, I'm sure -- if it doesn't increase interest in the game? All their questions were designed to find out if interest in the game went up as a result of the campaign. If the answer is "yes", then I'm sure we'll see future campaigns. If not, then they'll try and find some other way to increase interest.

I just wish they would get better site designers. The Medusa V website was TERRIBLE. You couldn't find specific opponents, the flash view of the planet was useless (and once you clicked anywhere you couldn't click anywhere else), and the like. I gave them honest answers everywhere. Summation: Campaign = Good, Website = Very Very Bad.

Well that was part of my observation. I think the purpose of the survey IS to determine if it caused us to game more often, and if we bought more models. What I was also saying is that, despite the fact that these are things GW would obviously want to know, shouldn't they also want to know what we thought of the campaign and the way it was operated? If they did have a section where we could give them some real feedback, then they could use it to their advantage in order to increase interest in future campaigns. If they looked at it that way, I think they would show a little more interest in our opinions.

number6
14-09-2006, 23:03
What I was also saying is that, despite the fact that these are things GW would obviously want to know, shouldn't they also want to know what we thought of the campaign and the way it was operated? If they did have a section where we could give them some real feedback, then they could use it to their advantage in order to increase interest in future campaigns. If they looked at it that way, I think they would show a little more interest in our opinions.
I would just use their contact links. Email them. I've only done it three times myself, but shockingly, I've gotten actual personal responses from actual GW employees. Now, for generally unsolicited opinions about Medusa V, I wouldn't necessarily expect any feedback. But if you are polite and well-spoken, I would expect at least a polite and personal "Thanks" from them. At least, that's been my experience.

Story: One of those three times I sent them a several-paragraph essay commenting on a particular article in WD, and within two hours I got a response from the editor (!), who made it plain that he had actually read my unsolicited email and thanked me for it. Nice! Say what you will about GW ("money-grubbing bastards" or whatever), but that kind of attention is unheard of from a company of any size. Especially one so large and easily impersonal as GW. They've earned points from me because, at least in my personal experience, they acknowledged me and my thoughts, even if they weren't going to do anything about them. You can't ask for more than that.

the creator
15-09-2006, 00:06
It's business cycle. I've heard a few of the old vets mention GW had a similar swing in the early nineties, profit dip, then became the customer-oriented business that suckered many of US in. Maybe one of them will weigh in and confirm that.

thats right. been doing this hobby for 18 years and in the early nineties it was store policy pr something like that, to ask who ever comes through the door "how much money you got?"

i wish i was lying about that...

then they must have reviewed the results of this and choose a more people friendly option. remember white dwarf was once just a catalogue with articles thrown in for padding. check the top of the old WD's and they even say Gw monthly catalogue. kinda like whats happening to WD now...hmmmm...