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Emperor's Light
25-06-2005, 11:09
Would anyone who has played Starship Troopers please pipe up with impressions and opinions of the game. I am curious enough to want to pick up the box set. I got to see a little bit of the game being played at Kublacon (which Andy C presided over), but didn't see enough to really make up my mind about it.

Before I invest the rather hefty sum for the box, can anyone tell me their impression of the game?

The main issues I am concerned with:

(1)There are only 2 full armies - bugs and MI. The "Skinnies" are not quite a full army. That doesn't seem like a lot of choices. It seems bug vs. MI would get old very fast. You would have the same type of dynamics every game.

(2)Poseability of models. The models are multi-pose plastic, yes? But how adaptable are they to multiple poses? As good as GW?

(3)Size of armies? How many models are involved in your standard size game? What kind of monetary investment?

(4)How are the rules? I tend to have faith in Andy C as a rules designer. I saw some intersting mechanics such as "reaction" to enemy actions. As the whole, is the game fun? Are the rules clear? Army lists balanced?

Malen Kharn
25-06-2005, 12:59
I bought it when it came out, so Ill have a go at your questions:

1. the armies in the rulebook arn't finished, the skinnies are going to be elaborated on, there will be more bugs and the mi in the box are the ones from the cgi cartoon, there will be a whole new army, the ones from the film.

2. basicly, the bug's are great, the mi are c**p.

3. i have only played squad and platoon based skirmishes. but the rules could easilly support anything up to 40k scale

4. great, everything 40kv4 should have been. the book is not guite as well set out as a GW product, but it only took me one or two games, to be confident enough in the rules, that I think i could play a game without the rule book.

hope this helps

xenopsyllus
29-06-2005, 21:52
I preordered the game and am already stocking up on it. Just need to convince others in my area to play. :D

Let me take a stab at your questions.


(1)There are only 2 full armies - bugs and MI. The "Skinnies" are not quite a full army. That doesn't seem like a lot of choices. It seems bug vs. MI would get old very fast. You would have the same type of dynamics every game.There are two armies at the moment. Skinnies will have a full army within a year, then they plan to begin releasing new races.


(2)Poseability of models. The models are multi-pose plastic, yes? But how adaptable are they to multiple poses? As good as GW?The bugs are great. The warrior bugs have four ball joints on them, a rotatable waist, and with only a minor snip of two pegs their jaws (upper and lower) become saddle joints.

The MI are decent. They're on par with 3rd ed 40k plastic Marines for quality and posability, but with more small parts. I originally didn't like the half dozen small parts on the MI models, but then I realized that they all cover up mold lines and sprue conection points, so even if you don't clean the models they turn out pretty good.

Of course, a little x-acto knife work and they're very posable, no different from any other plastic model.

On the plastic note, the models are made from a better plastic than GW minis. It's harder, more flexible, and much more resistant to breakage, allowing them to have much thinner pieces, like the legs on the warrior bugs.


(3)Size of armies? How many models are involved in your standard size game? What kind of monetary investment?Army sizes are the same as 40k. 1000 points is a small, but complete army, 1500 points is a moderately sized game, while 2000 points is the standard full sized game.

The cost differs between the two armies. MIaren't that expensive because you can arm them to the gills (300 point nukes anyone?). The contents of the main box (16 MI) will give you a nice, decently equipped 1000 point force. The bugs are less points, but have to puchase tunneling assets (tunneling markers and bug holes; basically paying for how in depth their tunneling network below the battlefield is). The main box will give you about 550 points, but it also includes only warrior bugs, the cheapest (point-wise) models in the bug army. Pick up a tanker bug (250 points of can't-be-hurt-by-basic-MI-rifles goodness) and something else and you've got a decent 1000 point force. I converted some of my warriors into hopper bugs (50 points a pop) using some insect wings I found at a kids toy shop to bulk up my force.


(4)How are the rules? I tend to have faith in Andy C as a rules designer. I saw some intersting mechanics such as "reaction" to enemy actions. As the whole, is the game fun? Are the rules clear? Army lists balanced?I love the rules. They are much more free flowing than any other game I've played. You activate one unit at a time (think War Machine) and work with it until it's done. Each unit gets to perform two actions per turn. If it wants to shoot twice, it can. If it wants to sprint across the battlefield, it can move twice. There are lots of extra rules in the book for types of units which don't currently exist, such as tracked and wheeled vehicles, so they don't have to come back and write new rules as they expand the armies.

Reactions are a very nice addition to the gaming world. Basically, if an enemy unit ends an action within 10" of one of your models, that model can react. Usually, this involves opening fire at the unit if you're MI or charging if you're a bug.

Fire zones are another big difference in this game. You pick a model and then hits are rolled against all models within 3" or 6" of that model, friend of foe. It does a good job at representing realistic firing, where an area is saturated with fire, not a squad.

The game also include fully integrated aerial and subterranian levels of the playing field.

The rules are pretty clear, just as long as you don't start confusing parts of the game with other games.

The army lists are mostly balanced, but with many unique differences. Notably, the bugs have almost exclusive control of the tunnels under the board while the MI (well, Fleet to be precise) have almost exclusive control of the airspace above the board.

Overall, it's a well written and incredibly flexible system. It's backed by some big names and a well established company. The miniature line is good, and the prices are reasonable. I have great expectations for this game.

jazzdude78
30-06-2005, 03:07
Personally I find that the bugs get the shaft compared to the MI in terms of price
The ape is equiv points wise to tanker costs $15 less

But the price is still nothing terrible just its much harder to make a bug army compared to MI
Im seriously looking forward to skinnies in the future

xenopsyllus
30-06-2005, 05:43
Within the month, bugs will have blister and blaster bugs available. That should help even out the point/cost difference.

KingNic
30-06-2005, 22:00
/\ What xenopsyllus said really.


(1)There are only 2 full armies - bugs and MI. The "Skinnies" are not quite a full army. That doesn't seem like a lot of choices. It seems bug vs. MI would get old very fast. You would have the same type of dynamics every game.

There's currently the Bugs and CGI MI available at the moment, both more than enough to keep you going. The movie style light-MI are being released at the end of August, the full Skinny army list including plastic models are being released and the first 100% origional army is being released in March.

As for bugs vs MI, to be honest how often do you play non-space marine opponents? I've played about a dozen games of SST and I've had much more variety than I've had in over 150 games of 40k.


(2)Poseability of models. The models are multi-pose plastic, yes? But how adaptable are they to multiple poses? As good as GW?

Very posable. The bugs have ball and socket joints, as do the M8 Ape suit and the current MI are similar to say... Dark Eldar models in terms of posability. They have flat joints but there's plenty to muck around with. The models themselves... I can see why people don't like them - they have a much more realistic scale as opposed to GWs heroic scale. Once you get used to that, the MI really do grow on you. I love the models now, assuming you dont put the face plates on of course...


(3)Size of armies? How many models are involved in your standard size game? What kind of monetary investment?

About 150 will get you a full sized force including all the rules. Assuming you buy the following:
-SST main game box -50
-M8 Ape suit - 15
-M9 Chickenhawk suit - 15
-CHAS - 10

That's 90. If you swap the arachnid warriors in the game box for MI with an Arachnid player (which most people are doing) then you have a 2000 point force. From then you need about 1000 more points for a full sized 3000 point Priority Level 3 force. You could probably get a 3000 point force out of the above if you really went overboard with wargear and talents.

Arachnids are a bit more expensive, expect to have to spend about 175-200 for a full sized force. Assuming you buy SST main boxes and swap the MI for arachnids then it will work out much cheaper.


(4)How are the rules? I tend to have faith in Andy C as a rules designer. I saw some intersting mechanics such as "reaction" to enemy actions. As the whole, is the game fun? Are the rules clear? Army lists balanced?
Fantastic. Just fantastic. Much more fun than anything GW has produced so far (with the possible exception of Gorkamorka ;)). Just ask for a demo from someone near you - there will be clubs playing it. The army lists are balanced, but MI have a considerable advantage in <1000 point games though. Once you start hitting 1500 points or more then the playing field gets a lot more even ;).

While I can't stop singing its praises, there are a few gripes that I have with the game:
-The forces in the initial box are by no means equal, and there are no example army lists given.
-Absolutely no painting guide.
-The MI are FIDDLY to assemble. Not a problem if you're an experienced modeller, but newbies would certainly struggle. I've also lost a couple of bits when I've clipped something off the sprue and it's gone pinging off into my room somewhere. Luckily Mongoose will replace any lost parts out the goodness of their hearts :)

Overall, the game is not very newbie friendly - something that Mongoose will certainly have to work on if they wish to really challenge 40k and hopefully bring some equality to a GW-dominated market. If you've played 40k for more than a couple of months however, you will absolutely love the game and it is well worth the investment. For the cost of a single GW army, you can get two full sized SST forces. That alone makes it worthwhile.

Freak Ona Leash
30-06-2005, 22:05
Werent the mongoose forum trolls making a 40k ruleset with SST rules? I remeber seeing a thread abut that there. Ad some die-hard mongoose fans going nuts over their "sacred gaming system" being used with anything GW-related :rolleyes:

______________
Freak, who says the Mongoose boards are even worse than the official GW boards :eek:

KingNic
30-06-2005, 22:17
There was a thread where several people were trying to bring 40k army lists into Starship Troopers, didnt get much further than a few basic stats and point costs however. The "die hard mongoose fans" were Mongoose representitives, namely msprange - the owner of Mongoose. He was simply expressing a concern about possible GW legal threats and was actually very interested in seeing a conversion of army lists, providing that any IP matters are resolved.

And the Mongoose boards are far better than the GW boards. The company owners and game designers regularly post to answer questions, listen to feedback and have a general chit-chat. There are the few smacktards and "a0l spaekrs", but just as many as any other online community, including this one.

Freak Ona Leash
30-06-2005, 22:46
Oh, I knew who the company reps. were. I was just confusing that thread with the million of others that flame GW on that board. Oh well no problem. And on the boards not being as bad as GW, I beg to differ. But to argue over that would be off-topic...

_______________
Freak, who says Mongoose will become the new GW: A heartless, evil, over-priced company with craptastic models.

xenopsyllus
01-07-2005, 00:34
Please stop trolling. We're trying to discuss a new game, not bash the people who play it.

Freak Ona Leash
01-07-2005, 01:41
I was trolling? News to me. And bashing the people who play SST? I play SST. Very good system. Better than 40k at least. Sorry if I offended you.

_______________
Freak, who really is sorry. And who would also like to know what a Klendathu is ;) ...ok bad joke.

Rabid Bunny 666
24-07-2005, 16:58
seems good, haven't got round to the MI yet as the box isn't mine :( (i need to put the MI on resin bases and paint them then i get the whole box FREE! :D)

the rules seem complicated from a quick glance, but i'd probably get the jist of it if i played it once or twice, i like the difficult terrain rules and the fact that it is possible for arachnids to run over MI to get to hte marines behind :D

seems like perfect kill team rules to me with the reactions and all, just need to find somewhere to play it, maybe even vets nights :)

xenopsyllus
25-07-2005, 01:02
Yep, the rules seem a little complicated at first, but after you play a game or two, they flow very well. Much better than most other wargames I've played.

I'm having the same problem finding other players at the moment, but I'm running demos every week and people are enjoying them. People are jsut a little apprehensive about starting a new game (start up cost and all).

Rabid Bunny 666
27-07-2005, 17:13
aah, i may try something down my Vets night, won';t hold my breath though....

the MI are nice models, but are a b***h to put together, i lost

2 shoulder pads
1 backpack
1 triangle grointhingy
1 assflap

and so i cunningly converted one into a NCO :D as well as using bits to make 2 morita longs

Lady's Champion
27-07-2005, 18:00
The models are terrile dont look like in the film

Rabid Bunny 666
27-07-2005, 18:18
but these are the CG series, they are releasing the movie ones later tihs year

*cant waits*

Tyra_Nid
28-07-2005, 04:27
The models are terrile dont look like in the film

I hope you realise that the film is only very loosely based on the 'actual' SST story? In the book, the MI are all in battlesuits, similar to Space Marines. The CG series is a lot more faithful to the book than the movie.

So that means the models are accurate to 2/3 SST mythos, much better than just staying closely to the one- the movie.


As rabid says, though, MI based on the movie-version will be out soon :)

xenopsyllus
28-07-2005, 16:58
The Ape suits don't quite match the book suits, though there are some rumors of heavier suits being released (no substantiation on this one, though). They are going to be getting the option to take a flamer (I belive it's in the Klsomethingsomething Invasion book due out soon).

Xenophon
28-07-2005, 17:12
Its the Klendathu Invasion book. In the book, Klendathu was the Bug homeworld.

I didn't know about the flamer for the Ape suit, but the book will have "light infantry", which will be based on the troopers from the movie. Apparently, they'll be cheap and expendable. I think Mongoose is hoping for a September release, although October is more likely.

Hope this helps,
Xenophon

xenopsyllus
28-07-2005, 20:10
Flamer option for the Ape was confirmed by Mongoose staff on their boards. I think it's in the Klendathu Invasion book, though it could be in the MI codex.

jazzdude78
29-07-2005, 03:20
Id expect it to be released via the web first then in the main MI book (unless the bok is closer than Im thinking) over the Klendathu
AFAIK the light MI dont get Maruaders and Chas which is sad as Id love to run some CHas and light MI possibly with some sprites
But then again im still holding out for the Skinnies

Hlokk
29-07-2005, 19:38
To be honest, I like the game and I think the rules are good, but the rulebook in an absolute mess. Theres bits and peices everywhere and it doesnt seem to run in any coherant, easy to follow order. It made sence after I sat down and stared at it for 3 hours, but its not the sort of book I can easily pick up and look at for a specific rule.

Aside from that minor issue, my only other problem with the game is those bloody arachnid legs and bodies, they take ages to put together and then fall apart. Maybe I'm just crap at assembling them, i dunno.

MI Models are nice, Have bought a chickenhawk and it looks really nice, easily a viable alternative for a sentinal.

xenopsyllus
29-07-2005, 22:27
Try this for the warrior legs:

- Glue the two halves of the lower body together with the legs inside (don't glue the legs).
- Figure out approximately how you want the legs posed and make a mental image of it.
- Bend all the legs down.
- Place a drop of super glue on top of the ball joint for each leg.
- Spin the legs a little to get the super glue into the ball joint.
- Pose the legs and wait for the glue to try (a super glue catalyst helps a lot here).

If you're not quite quick enough to do that, glue two legs at a time (back two then front two).

Rabid Bunny 666
30-07-2005, 14:49
i found, get the TOP part of the abdomen, put a dollop of plastic glue in the holes, lie the legs in flat, then glue the top half on, then because the poly cement hasn't dried, you can get suitably cool poses out of them with some strateigic propping up

xenopsyllus
31-07-2005, 07:07
Flamer option for the Ape was confirmed by Mongoose staff on their boards. I think it's in the Klendathu Invasion book, though it could be in the MI codex.It's in the MI book, not the Klendathu Invasion book.

erion
03-08-2005, 19:49
First pics of the new Light Armor (film-style) MI troopers were recently posted on Mongoose's website.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/product_images/full_size/sstlightmipreview.jpg

Freak Ona Leash
03-08-2005, 21:07
Is it me or does it look like GW ripped Cadians off them? Or the other way around...though the currewnt cadians models came out after the SST movie...ZOMG GW IS TEH STEALIEST!!!11!!!!1 As if we already dint know :rolleyes: The face on the bear-headed one looks a little iffy IMO. And the arms llok a little spindly comapred to the legs andhead. Though I was born and raised on "heroic"(read: over-sized) 28mm so my view is a little skewed.

xenopsyllus
04-08-2005, 02:42
I like them. They're actually proportional!

And at $25 (USD) for 20 of them plus special/heavy weapons, they're very reasonably priced.

KingNic
06-08-2005, 03:13
They look a little iffy to me, but then again so did the Power Suit troopers until I had them in my hands. I'll certainly be getting a fair few of these.

jazzdude78
06-08-2005, 05:12
The price is great as its what cadians woulda been when the rumors started trickling out about them

though personally they look more like the old style cadian metals
which is funny as I was (had I ever gotten them) gonna paint em up like like the MI color wise

Rabid Bunny 666
06-08-2005, 15:16
they do look cool, i may get some if Chris does

not sure on the arms though, tidgy

Verm1s
12-08-2005, 15:08
No offense, they may be proportional (to a degree), but they do not look good.

Flippin' heck. If you're going to get off on sci-fi infantry that isn't GW, why not drool over Hasslefree Grymn or something? I really can't understand why people are getting excited about the light MI minis.
Because they're not GW? Forget about all the 'evil empire' rubbish for a minute, and just compare pics of Cadians and MI. I'd choose the chunky hands over the alternative.

General Veers
12-08-2005, 20:03
One thing I've noticed with Mongoose product is they have to be seen in "real life". For some reason I don't understand, they simply can't post decent pictures of their product online.

Anyway, one thing they can't hide is this: There isn't a single LMI FIRING the Mortia rifle. Since that was very common, especially since it took about 100 shots to down one bug in the movie, I find that...odd.

If the LMI are similar to the CAP troopers in the way they were cut to be put on the sprue, I don't expect them to be easy to assemble either. Looking at the arms they seem about the same and as the MI that's sad.

But I will buy some. I've always wanted the movie version of the MI. I have no idea why really...

Rabid Bunny 666
13-08-2005, 11:54
No offense, they may be proportional (to a degree), but they do not look good.

Flippin' heck. If you're going to get off on sci-fi infantry that isn't GW, why not drool over Hasslefree Grymn or something? I really can't understand why people are getting excited about the light MI minis.
Because they're not GW? Forget about all the 'evil empire' rubbish for a minute, and just compare pics of Cadians and MI. I'd choose the chunky hands over the alternative.

nothing to do with GWs "evil empire", but i just like the mongoose models, is that so wrong, and General Veers, i know what you mean, the armoured MI look way better in person

Hoshi No Koe
14-08-2005, 07:08
Just gotten through the meat of the rulebook. I love these rules!

They seem like a lot of fun to play. As I was reading it I was thinking of making list conversions from 40k immediately. I don't dislike the the SST setting, but I like the 40K one better. However, the rules seem more fun to play than the 40k ones. So, I'll be working on a conversion for 40k troops to the SST rules.

A friend of mine bought the box and I did like the miniatures though. So I might start collecting SST in the near future. I'm holding my breath for a force that really inspires me. I like the MI troopers, as well as the bugs, but not enough to really inspire me yet. But maybe after I've gotten a few games in I'll be inspired. Right now, a tunneling heavy arachnid (almost wanted to write nids) force seems like a lot of fun to play.

I don't know much about the SST background aside from the movie, and I have yet to go through the skinnies background, I don't like their look much. Might want to give me a quick summary of what they're about?

Concerning that new race, any rough ideas of what they're going to be like fluffwise?

Rabid Bunny 666
14-08-2005, 12:13
i don't know anyone who plays in my area, as i only play GW, but i'm gonna do an MI force for fun, and a smallish Arachnid army because the warriors and hoppers are sweet

KingNic
14-08-2005, 14:15
Hoshi, I recommend that you pick up the SST book - the film is completely butchered and the book will put you in the right mindset ;)

The Skinnies haven't been fully explored in any of the mediums. In the book, they help the Arachnids and are in it for a single chapter - the first. Very little is explained, except that they're tall, skinny, warm and naked. I haven't watched the episodes of the CGI series with the Skinnies in since they first aired, but from what I remember very little was explained.

The way Skinnies are being pitched by mongoose is a raiding force/Guerilla force. They're as good as the basic MI at shooting, but have trouble with larger targets. They have the huge advantage of numbers though - almost as many models on the table as Arachnids. Their weapons tend to deal a fair chunk of damage (Piercing/2) but the troops carrying said weapons tend to be killed fairly easily. You need to get in there, and take out all the targets before they get to shoot back. They also set up a lot of traps and can infiltrate a fair few troops, so are almost like the Kroot with a hint of Eldar.

The lists in the rulebook are just tests, even the MI and Arachnid lists let alone the Skinnies. The MI and Arachnid army books will be out sometime this year (Ex-Specialist games designer Matt Keefe is behind the Arachnid book - he just recently asked for a bunch of suggestions and feedback on the mongoose forums), and the full Skinnies army should be released around christmas. Hopefully, mongoose will redesign the Skinnies from scratch because the current designs are pretty naff tbh. Like the MI though, the models are meant to be MUCH better in person, although the shop near me doesn't stock them so I couldn't have any say on that.

The fourth army in SST has been confirmed to be a machine army, due March next year. No other info available yet :)

And Rabid Bunny 666, collect both :) Box Game + MI Chickenhawk suit + 3 Hoppers + Tanker bug = 2 1000 point forces. Expand from there with another box game and some more fun stuff for the Nids.

Rabid Bunny 666
14-08-2005, 14:19
hmm, nice one, but i'm not buying them, i paint them up, my mate takes piccys of his resin bases on them, and i get to keep the box :D

but i have until the end of august to do them, haven't even got 1 MI dude done yet :)

PKAGustov
16-08-2005, 09:16
I did like the glossery/index. It was very helpful at the demo game I got to play in (the guy giving the demo bought the game a week earlier).