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Dranthar
15-09-2006, 23:08
Just a question that arose when I was painting squad-designations onto my marine army;

Where do the crew for the space marine vehicles (rhinos, vindicators, etc.) come from?

The Index Astartes is supposed to say that each chapter must consist of no more than 1000 marines, with 100 marines per company etc., but I'm not aware of any consideration for vehicle crews.

I figure they must either come from companies squads (ie. tac squad A assigns one marine to drive their rhino), they are drawn from reserve companies, or they are entirely seperate from the chapter structure (which still leaves me wondering about how to mark them. :rolleyes: ).

Thoughts? Ideas?

Minister
16-09-2006, 01:14
Codex: Space Marines, 3rd edition, p46
"note that vehicles (not bikes) and spacecraft include complete crew compliments"

This same page gives the reserve companies as at or near full strength. Whilst crews can be drawn from these when the Chapter has access to aditional vehicles, it is not standard practice.

The one thousand marines is not an exact figure. A full strength Codex chapter, with its full suport, breaches that number even without vehicle and fleet crews. Instead it should be thought of as a typical "order of magnitude" strength taking into acount the ffact that Marines are rarely at full strength, with battle casualties and implant failures.

Vehicle crews are members of the companies in the case of rhinos, 1st company land raiders and posibly razorbacks. Otherwise, they are Armoury. Shoulder rims are in company colours for dedecated transport crews and for those vehicle crews attatched to a company on a long-term basis (a small circle with company colour and number will commonly be added to the vehicle). For those in dedecated vehicle formations or on temporary assignment, the chapter colour will be used for the shoulder rims.

Side hatches on armoury vehicles are sometimes painted red to diferentiate them from company vehicles.

Tactical symbol is a circle, with vehicle number displayed as apropriate.

Land speeders, in common with bikes, are integral to the company, and are crewed from the assault squads (or tactical squads from the 7th and 6th companies respectivley).

Refrences: Codex: Ultramarines, 2nd edition; Codex: Space Marines, 3rd edition; Epic

Minister
16-09-2006, 21:45
Option 1: my argument was so complete it bowled everyone over into stunned silence.

Option 2: Everyone's disgusted into stunned silence.

Option 3: I'm the only one who cares.

The_Patriot
16-09-2006, 22:06
Option 4: You answered the question so no one else needs to comment. :p

Gen.Steiner
16-09-2006, 22:45
Armoury crews wear the red of the Forge, with chapter symbol on the left pad, and in Chapter colours. Right pad is the skull of the AdMech.

Also, vehicles will have a Campaign Badge on them somewhere - usually a geometric shape, this varies from campaign to campaign.

Minister
17-09-2006, 10:11
I do ask where this red armour alegation comes from? The junior techmarines, sometimes assigned as crews, wear red, but the standard crews do not (so sayeth Codex: Ultramarines).

In theory everything and everyone wears the campaign badge, and those used in marine-only operations tend to be more elaborate than the Guard.

Gen.Steiner
17-09-2006, 17:36
Err... not sure to be honest. It seems to be the 'done thing' ever since the Land Raider came out with its AdMech pad. I do it because the red contrasts nicely with the white of my Chapters' vehicles.

Minister
17-09-2006, 21:21
It comes with one pad, not two.

Gen.Steiner
18-09-2006, 09:14
I know. And? I never said otherwise... :confused:

Minister
18-09-2006, 10:05
I appoligise. I am forgetting the frame layout.

Anyway, Codex: Ultramarines is correct. Anything which contradicts it is wrong. By definition.

Gen.Steiner
18-09-2006, 10:24
Codex: Ultramarines is correct. Anything which contradicts it is wrong. By definition.

I agree - but then again, I do prefer the red armour for Forge crew... and even Codex chapters have odd idiosyncracies like that.

Sai-Lauren
19-09-2006, 10:36
I think the red's only if you're an adept of the machine god (e.g, you're a techmarine, or you're part of the Armoury).

But Minister's right over chapter sizes, the "1000 marines" I've always held to be the troopers and NCOs they can commit to an action requireing the full strength of the chapter, with officers (and there should be more than the proscribed one captain per company IMO) and specialists and their retinues, vehicle (not just Rhinos and Land Raiders, but also things like Thunderhawks and the Transporters, plus the Techmarines who look after the drop pods) and starship crews (ok, mostly chapter serfs, with a few marines as the command and engineering staff), dreadnoughts, invalided/ancient veterans back home training up the new recruits - who themselves wouldn't go on campaign themselves yet (those that have yet to join the 10th company) and so on all additional to that figure.

1000 Marines, but not necessarily only 1000 Astartes ;)