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View Full Version : Valkyries of the Omnissiah Female Space Marines WIP Pics (Lots of Pics)



Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:29
I'll put the first squad up here, then add replies to add in the rest of the pictures. Just click on the thumbnail for a larger pic. Following the pics in this first message I've included some brief fluff and an FAQ so that you can see the pictures in context of their fluff.

Enjoy and let me know what you think. :D

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_ValThigh1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/ValThigh1.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valthigh2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valthigh2.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valthigh3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valthigh3.jpg)




FAQ

Q: What are the bits you have used?
A: Here's the bitz breakdown:
Heads: Wood Elf Archers, Amazons from Mordheim, and SOB Exorcist heads
Torso and legs: Dark Elf Warrior
Arms: Space Marine Scout
Backpack: Forgeworld Elysian Grav Chute
Pistols: Plasma Pistols with bitz from Robotech Missiles, kroot rifles, bolter scopes, etc.
Heavy Weapon: Generally the Bit from 1/144th scale Robotech Toy with grip added from boltgun and space marine sight, although a copuple have heavy weapons made from Epic Knights.
Special Weapon: Plasma Pistols with Bits from Pintle Mounted Stubbers, Necron Guass rifles, flamers, etc.
The Mini-Dread Terminators are made from Stealth Suit Legs, terminator arms, and the torsos from Epic Knights.


Q: When are you going to paint them and what colors are you going to use?
A: I always assemble everything before I paint. This is because I have, in the past, had to tear apart painted models when I decided to convert something differently half-way through the project. As far as colors, I haven't really decided yet. Right now, I'm leaning towards jade tunics with lavender armor.


Q: I thought the fluff said Female Space Marines were impossible?
A: It doesn't say it is 'impossible.' The current fluff says that the geneseed used by the Imperium only works in males. I am, in no way contradicting that.
Why?
Because it does not say that, anciently, there was not any other kinds of geneseed. It only says that the known geneseed only works in males.
I am simply filling that void by saying that, anciently, there were other kinds of geneseed, and I am giving what I believe to be a reasonable historical reason for why it dissapeared and no one but a few knew of its existence, and why it has now reappeared.
I am not attempting to alter the fluff. I am attempting to fill in voids that GW has intentionally built into the fluff for the express purpose of players creating their own fluff.
Actually I quite like the idea of female primarchs that were later betrayed and purged by Guilleman's new Imperium. It makes sense, to me, why their records no longer exist, especially when the records of traitor legions still exist. I mean, what can you do that's worse then going over to chaos that would cause the records to be expunged? Well, the Imperium covering up for one of it's greatest acts of treachery against two of their own loyal legions is a reasonable reason for that for me.
It also explains why individuals like Bjorn the fell handed will not speak of the subject when questioned. He would rather that the young ones not know that the Imperium was birthed in the betrayal of those who fought for it.
Above all else, I want people to understand that I am creating this army and it's fluff out of a love for 40K fluff, not in disregard of it.


Q: Are they really supposed to be Space Marines or are they just something that uses the space marine rules?
A: The Valkyries of the Omnissiah are Space Marines. They are not a joke army. Their fluff fits cleanly into the 40K background just like any other DIY chapter. They are modified from regular human females using geneseed just like other chapters, except that their geneseed only works on females.


Q: How come they don't look like those freaky female body builders?
A: Female Space Marines have a muscle tissue vastly different then that of a normal astartes. During the development of geneseed prior to the great crusade, it was found that the simultaneous muscle twitch fiber that had been developed would deteriorate when exposed to the hormone balance in a male astartes, so that part of the project was abandoned, and male astartes were modified to have larger muscles instead. The simultaneous twitch fibers, however, could be sustained in a female astartes hormone balance, and their geneseed still contains this powerful modification. Subsequently, female astartes have comparable strength to their male counterparts, but do not require a large musclebound physique.


Q: How come their armor doesn't look thicker?
A: Their Mark XI power armor utilizes newer materials developed from STC fragments unearthed in the catecombs beneath Diab. Consequently the armor is thinner and lighter then bulky ceremite plates, but provides nearly identicle ballistic and energy weapon protection.
Also, the legs and arms are armored beneath the dress and sleeves. The kerasteel chainmail skirt provides extra protection, but is not the only armor on their legs.


Q: How come they don't use boltguns?
A: Valkyries are designed to hunt male astartes. One of the major drawbacks of marine equipment is their reliance on ammunition resupply. Even their energy weapons have componants that must be replaced every few dozen shots. Valkyrie weapons are universally energy-based, with fission cores designed to sustain fire for years without replacement. This allows Valkyries to continually attack marine formations, forcing them to engage in lengthy and ammunition-guzzling firefights that they normally try to avoid. Resupply and redeployment are further denied by Thundervina fighters, designed for a single purpose, to hunt thunderhawks. When marine formations are depleted of ammunition, the Valkyries move in for the killing blow. Special radiation charges are placed on marine corpses, forever destroying any opportunity to recover their geneseed.
Additionally, since their weapons do not require ammunition for years at a time, there is no need for standardized weapons in order to simplify logistics, therefore each squad is equipped with (often experimental) weapons built by an individual artificer, rather than a template design.


Q: What is their background and where did their geneseed come from?
A: The Background for them is that the two missing legions and their primarchs were female during the great crusade. During the Heresy, they remained loyal to the Emperor, but were nearly destroyed during the conflict.
Rouberte Guilleman was many things. A brilliant tactical commander, a keen administrator, and an immovable chauvinist. With his unique position of power following the heresy, he had an opportunity to reshape the Imperium as he saw fit. There would be no place for female astartes in his new empire, and the survivors from the two female legions were killed, their names expunged from all records, and their remaining geneseed stocks ordered destroyed.
It was only after this display of ruthlessness that the remaining primarchs consented to have their legions broken up into chapters. They could see that Guilleman would go to any length to see his plans implemented.
The story might have ended there, but the Adpetus Mechanicus of Mars have always followed their own agenda. Guilleman ordered all geneseed stocks on mars moved to terra, in order to limit the power of the mechanicus, and commanded any remaining female geneseed destroyed. Under the threat of war, the Fabricator General handed over the remaining stocks of male geneseed, but sealed sealed away the stocks of female geneseed instead of destroying them, into endless vaults of the red planet.
Ten millenia later, The Adeptus Mechanicus of Mars has determined that the Imperium is too weak to survive, and has begun a military build up that will culminate in the destruction of the Adeptus of Terra.
As the determined date approaches, the vaults of mars have been unsealed, and the geneseed of the lost legions is being used, in secret, to create genetically modified warriors that can match the Adeptus Astartes in the coming war.
The Valkyries of the Omnissiah are a shadow force that answer only to the Fabricator General of Mars. Only those highest in the Machine Cult hierarchy even know of it's existence. It's deployment is always preceded by a communications blockout that masks their involvement and limits the possibility of exposure. Nevertheless, rumors have circulated from time to time, and the fear of their discovery prematurely triggering the inevitable war between mars and terra means that they are deployed only under the most dire of circumstances.


Q: What is the personality of the Valkyries? Do they have their own agenda?
A:Valkyrie initiates are recruited from a small cluster of planets controlled by the mechanicus known as Eden's belt. A cluster of formerly lush forested worlds that were all reduced to barren wastelands during the Badab Uprising, in which both loyalist and seperatist Space Marine factions used atomic and viral weapons repeatedly with little regard for the native populations.
Consequently, the descendants of the survivors of the Eden's belt have an unrelenting hatred for the Adeptus Astartes that is drilled into them at a very young age as they are shown holo-vids of the beautiful worlds they once lived on.
Those young girls who are selected to become Valkyries see themselves as holy warriors, personally chosen by the machine god to right the wrongs done to their people.
Consequently, the Valkyries are known to look for any excuse they can to pursue and destroy Space Marine forces whenever they are deployed, which has nearly lead, on several occasions, to their exposure.
They deeply admire the Cult of the Machine, and consider it to be the perfect reflecion of human acheivement and the ultimate alter to worship. The Imperial Cult, in contrast, they believe has infected the pure science of humanity with the worship of witchcraft and the adoration of psykers, both of which they ascribe as xenos influences and not of human origin.
The clans of the Eden's belt have a simple oath which is sworn to the mechanicus. In trade for their firstborn daughters, the worlds of the Eden's belt are slowly being terraformed by ancient and costly devices, a process that will take centuries.
It is believed among the Valkyries that every marine they kill will speed this process along, the death of the final marine completing the process.
So, they are loyal to the Mechanicus, partly out of worship, but mostly because it gives them what they want the most, which is a chance to strike back at the demons who arruined their homelands, and return their worlds to the beauty they once had.
They consider their own transformation into genetically-enhanced warriors to be a necessary evil, but the guilt of becoming so near to that which they hate so much often causes them deep psycological scarring. There have been unconfirmed reports of Valkyries cutting themselves open to remove the extra organs in thier bodies. Spiritually, they are uncertain what their ultimate fate will be, if their sacrifice on behalf of their clans is enough to cleanse their bodies, or if nothing can redeem them from what they have become.

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:31
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3f.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3f.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3e.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3e.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3d.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3d.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3c.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3c.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:32
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3b.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3b.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3a.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3a.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_NewCaptain2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/NewCaptain2.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_NewCaptain1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/NewCaptain1.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:32
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie2e.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie2e.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie2d.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie2d.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_valkyrie2c.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/valkyrie2c.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie2b.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie2b.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:33
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie2a.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie2a.jpg)

Here's some more. I differentiate the squads with their hairstyle and their weapons, since they carry no squad markings.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie175.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie175.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie176.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie176.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie178.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie178.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:33
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie179.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie179.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie181.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie181.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie3.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie2.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:34
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Valkyrie1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Valkyrie1.jpg)

Here's the Terminators. The jackal-looking ones are mini-dreadnaughts. Robot bodies with the remains of a warrior inside. They use the same rules as termaintors.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_TermCommandSquad.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/TermCommandSquad.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_FTerminator1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/FTerminator1.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_FTerminator2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/FTerminator2.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:35
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_FTerminator3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/FTerminator3.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_FTerminator4.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/FTerminator4.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Terminator3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Terminator3.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Terminator2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Terminator2.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:35
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Terminator1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Terminator1.jpg)

Here's the Tanks.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Fleet2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Fleet2.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Fleet1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Fleet1.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Tsunami3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Tsunami3.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:36
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Tsunami2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Tsunami2.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Tsunami1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Tsunami1.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Striker3.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Striker3.jpg)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Striker2.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Striker2.jpg)

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 06:37
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/th_Striker1.jpg (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/Striker1.jpg)

Phew. I know that was a lot of pictures, so I thank those of you who made it all the way down to the end of it. :D

Chainsworded Codpiece
17-09-2006, 06:52
Verrry interesting start. I'm still digesting the fluff. Something about the setup rings wrong to me. Not the "Female Spacer'ino" part, nor the missing Primarchs connection. It's some thing else...hmmm. Well, I'll comment more fully when I can get my head together.

As to the miniatures. I both like and dislike them. On the one hand, it's nice to see some variance in both armor type and weaponry for Astartes. God, is it ever. Don't get me wrong, I loves me some .75 mass-reactive bolt-chuckin' dakka, but it's nice to see a Chapter (Legion? Battleforce? Armada?) that, shying away from conventional superstition, regards the Bolter as a Legacy Weapon, getting by as much on it's fearsome pedigree as anything.

So the weapons and the the armor (and the battery/utility/jump packs) are good.

The arms, sadly, seem too static on some of the models. Too many models with that open-armed, "look-I'm-displaying-my-guns-at-a-gun-auction" pose so standard for many atrocious GW models of the early-to-mid '90s.

EDIT: Not all of them, though. And the ones that deviate from that pose look great.

Also, the faces, through no fault of your own, lack any character as yet. This is the fault of the moulds available (and the persistence of all females save Eschers looking looking identical in 40K).

I suspect that my reservations will be cleared up if the painting is kickass.:)

Please keep working. I am, if anything, intrigued.

Shadow Marine
17-09-2006, 07:34
Hi,

In the background forumn female space marines are often discussed in the background forumn. I like the way you have justified the idea of female space marines. Some may think you have stretched some ideas too far, but they are food for thought. On a modeling point of view I agree with codpiece, you should have a look at the poses and heads. Maybe just use plastic helmeted heads more. I cannot wait to see them painted.

bloed_tarnen
17-09-2006, 07:34
I love the concept. It is great to see someone coming up with a new idea with new models and not just using SoB. What do all the different guns count as?, i like the use of the plasmapistol as the base for most of the weapons.

Keep up the good work :)

ankellagung
17-09-2006, 11:54
In keeping with your fluff, I think you should play around with the assault cannons to make them look like energy weapons. Other than that, it looks sweet. How did you make the mini-dreadnought terminators?

firestorm40k
17-09-2006, 12:25
Wow! :eek:

Firstly, may I just say Welcome to Warseer, Dr Thunder! :D

Okay, when I saw the words 'Female Space Marines' in the thread title my inner-fluff Nazi started screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" :mad: very loudly.

However, I read your resaoning, and I think what you've come up with is a very original twist/interpretation on existing background which, in my opinion, works very well.

Like Chainsworded Codpiece, I like many things about the models, but some things I'm not so keen on. The look of some of the guns doesn't quite look right to me, but the more I look at them the more I warm to them. Also, great idea on the Tanks, but I feel they need some embellishing to look more 'future-gothicy', in keep with the imagery of the 40k background.

Anyway, I applaud you for doing something different, original, and for the ammount of thought and planning you have put in to this project. Well done! :cool:

Oh, before I go, two questions:

- You say (in your background) that the guns are energy weapons; I take it in rules terms they still count as Boltguns etc.?
- Also, do the Tanks count as Razorbacks?

Dawn of the Dogs
17-09-2006, 13:42
welcome to Warseer, Dr Thunder!

seen your stuff before on B&C, but it still looks as good as ever. lookin' forward to seeing them all finished and painted!

notdakuningist
17-09-2006, 13:58
Very nice, that is the most kitbashed army I think I've ever seen.

Spacemunkie
17-09-2006, 15:52
They look cool. That's all that matters - nadgers to the GW background Nazis.....

:D

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 16:15
They look cool. That's all that matters - nadgers to the GW background Nazis.....
Thanks, I'm glad you like them. On other forums, I've actually recieved pm hate mail over this army, but I think Warseer will hold itself to a higher standard than that. You guys seem like a good bunch. :D



welcome to Warseer, Dr Thunder! lookin' forward to seeing them all finished and painted!
Thanks, I'm excited to get them painted too. Just a few more things to asemble and then I'll get to painting. My goal is to have them all done by the end of the year.


- You say (in your background) that the guns are energy weapons; I take it in rules terms they still count as Boltguns etc.?
Oh, yes. They'll use the exact same rules as any other space marine army. At the moment, my plan is to have the brace of pistols use the same rules as a boltgun with true grit.


- Also, do the Tanks count as Razorbacks?
The Strikers are razorbacks, but the Tsunami (The ones with the big cannon) are going to be vindicators.


In keeping with your fluff, I think you should play around with the assault cannons to make them look like energy weapons. Other than that, it looks sweet. How did you make the mini-dreadnought terminators?
Thats a good point. I'll look into that. They're made with terminator arms, stealth suit legs, and the torso from an old Epic Knight that came in the old box set.


The arms, sadly, seem too static on some of the models. Too many models with that open-armed, "look-I'm-displaying-my-guns-at-a-gun-auction" pose so standard for many atrocious GW models of the early-to-mid '90s.

EDIT: Not all of them, though. And the ones that deviate from that pose look great.
Let me know which poses you like best, that way, I can make an effort to repeat those kinds of poses more often. :)


Also, the faces, through no fault of your own, lack any character as yet. This is the fault of the moulds available (and the persistence of all females save Eschers looking looking identical in 40K).
Yeah, I'll make sure to give them some variance of expression and hair color when I paint them. Personally, I'm just happy that I was able to find female heads that looked pretty good at all. Most GW female faces are terrible and look like this:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/wyche_net.jpg


Very nice, that is the most kitbashed army I think I've ever seen.Yeah, every player has their own 'special rule' associated with them. My buddy Dave, for example, has the 'paint-model-quick' ability. He can finish an army in a weekend (not exagerating), and it'll still look great. I swear it gets me so jealous, because, my special rule, on the other hand, is 'spend-way-too-much-time-and-money-on-conversions.'


Okay, when I saw the words 'Female Space Marines' in the thread title my inner-fluff Nazi started screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" very loudly.

However, I read your resaoning, and I think what you've come up with is a very original twist/interpretation on existing background which, in my opinion, works very well.
Thanks, I can think of no greater compliment. I originally got the idea for a female space marine army a looong time ago when I bought a blister of female spce marines from a GW store.
(Most people are surprised to learn that GW actually made female space marine models for a while. In a later catalouge, they re-named them "female adventurers," but when I bought them they were female space marines.)
So, my inspiration for the army came from GW, it just took me this long before I had the money and modeling skills to make it happen.

TCUTTER
17-09-2006, 17:42
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, wheres my flamer, this is heresy of the worst kind, no matter how you justify it there will never ever be female space marines, it cannot happen. phew now thats out of the way, nice army you got there i like um, a nice variant sister force, but seriously its your game do what you want im just playing, apart from the little rant i do have 1 other problem, thats using devilfishs, as imperials are always blocky, look at landspeeders, sorry if ive offended you but im just being honest.

looking forward to the colour scheme though

starlight
17-09-2006, 18:04
Excellent!:D

It's funny how the newer/younger players are so intolerant towards the ladies.:rolleyes: It's like when kids won't let girls play on the boys team - mostly because they're afraid the girls will show them up....:rolleyes: Most Vets are more interested in the reasoning than in applying some arbitrary rule (especially one from GW that didn't exist in earlier Editions).

I like your reasoning and I'm looking forward to more work.:D

The only thing that bothers me is the front of the transports looks a bit too bulky (anime style) for my tastes.

TCUTTER
17-09-2006, 19:04
ohhh whoa now, ive been into this hobby for near enough a decade, im a long fang in gaming terms, i just respect the fluff as intended, im just saying theres no female marines. as i also said though , its his game so fine now let me carry on with my great chapter...the rainbow warriors, with the half eldar libririan...

n00bLord
17-09-2006, 19:41
I don't see the justification of terminators. If anything. I like the idea and the look of the masked ones those were wonderful. But how could they have gotten terminator armor of any kind since most likely the Astartes would have it all (other than Chaos). Maybe now I have to get me some real Witch Hunters if you know what I mean...

Chainsworded Codpiece
17-09-2006, 20:02
ohhh whoa now, ive been into this hobby for near enough a decade, im a long fang in gaming terms, i just respect the fluff as intended, im just saying theres no female marines. as i also said though , its his game so fine now let me carry on with my great chapter...the rainbow warriors, with the half eldar libririan...

Not such a stretch, really. As we know, the first iteration of the Ultramarines had a "half-Eldar" Librarian too. As well as a Navigator named Christo Columbine (a mutant, but still allowed to wear the Chapter's armor, and be named Master of the Ships!), and they had a Reclusiarch who was part of the official Ministorum (not a Marine), but a Master of Sanctity who WAS Astartes, but owed his authority to the Ministorum preacher:eek: ...

Respect the history as one may, just remember, it is...porous. Ungainly. Mutating. Like real history.

starlight
17-09-2006, 20:07
Exactly!:D

Oh and n00bLord: I'm assuming that (as with everything else in the list) the Terminators are *counts as*, not actual suits of Marine Tactical Dreadnaught Armour. Works fine for me.:D

Lostanddamned
17-09-2006, 20:21
They are really really nice Scifi mini's

Good fluff to base a Scifi army on.

But I like my Space Opera fantasy too much to like these gals.

But as I'm unlikely to ever see them IRL I dont care.

They are beautiful

Doctor Thunder
17-09-2006, 20:36
Exactly!:D

Oh and n00bLord: I'm assuming that (as with everything else in the list) the Terminators are *counts as*, not actual suits of Marine Tactical Dreadnaught Armour. Works fine for me.:D

Yeah, they're Imperial Robots that have the same stats and weapons as terminators, not suits of terminator armor.


Not such a stretch, really. As we know, the first iteration of the Ultramarines had a "half-Eldar" Librarian too. As well as a Navigator named Christo Columbine (a mutant, but still allowed to wear the Chapter's armor, and be named Master of the Ships!), and they had a Reclusiarch who was part of the official Ministorum (not a Marine), but a Master of Sanctity who WAS Astartes, but owed his authority to the Ministorum preacher ...

Respect the history as one may, just remember, it is...porous. Ungainly. Mutating. Like real history.
Right, and don't forget that Ultramarines were originally a second founding chapter, who had official chapter concubines to produce the next generation of ultramarine recruits.


It's funny how the newer/younger players are so intolerant towards the ladies. Most Vets are more interested in the reasoning than in applying some arbitrary rule (especially one from GW that didn't exist in earlier Editions).
Yeah, I have noticed that it is the players who only know the recent fluff that are so inflexible about it. The older players, who know the fluff from the beginning, and know how silly a lot of it was, and still is, are much more likely to be laid back about it, and that's the way I am.


I like your reasoning and I'm looking forward to more work.
Thanks. I should have some more squads done here in the next few days to show off.:D


noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, wheres my flamer, this is heresy of the worst kind, no matter how you justify it there will never ever be female space marines, it cannot happen. phew now thats out of the way, nice army you got there i like um, a nice variant sister force, but seriously its your game do what you want im just playing, apart from the little rant i do have 1 other problem, thats using devilfishs, as imperials are always blocky, look at landspeeders, sorry if ive offended you but im just being honest.
Nah, You haven't offended me. You're fine. I respect your opinion. I figure we can just use that emotion if we ever play a game. I can shout out, "We are space marines, dangit, not a variant sister force," and you can shout, "You cannot exist and we will purge your sweet little backsides!"...
And then we play 40K and have fun.:p

starlight
17-09-2006, 20:58
Heck my Legio (that's right *Legio*:p) Phoenix Templars history has them separated from the Imperium during the time of the Heresy and still fighting their way home from across the galaxy. They don't know that the Emperor is on the Golden Throne, nor that the Imperium has perverted His Legacy in His Name. Oh and they *do* have female marines, if for very different reasons.:eek:

Just imagine what's going to happen when their Crusade Fleet returns.....:eyebrows:

Large bag of stinky manure - meet Mr. Industrial Strength Shred-o-Mulch-o:evilgrin:

TCUTTER
17-09-2006, 22:04
good at least he knows im playing with him, im a devout imp ask any of my buddies if ever you meet them, i get all high and mighty about these things but its all in jest

Astenu
17-09-2006, 22:17
Except for the feet, most of it looks very nice.
Good luck with your project, I'm very interested to see the final result.

Cheers,

Astenu

Eris
18-09-2006, 00:14
I like the idea of female space marines and your fluff is mostly well reasoned; the near-endless weapon ammo irks me a tad, I think years is perhaps a little too much. After looking in my Horus Herasy books I found a reference that the Emperor did indeed only use men for creating the space marines (patriarcal society an' all)... it is however a semi-vague reference and being a girl I'm all for bending the interpretation of stuff to include my gender more into 40K. :D That said I always thought that the Sisters of Silence/later the Sisters of Battle fitted into the void where female space marines could have been quite nicely... denied the full connection to the Emperor but all the more fiesty for it! :evilgrin:

All in all on the fluff, just go for it and pah to those who are to stuck in their views to enjoy the fun of something different.

On the models... unfortunately I don't much like them at all, they should be more angular and the DE legs are just a no... skirts in space... *shiver*. The connection to Mars, for me, only makes it more likely they would have an angular design to them. And pleease I beg you don't do lavender and jade!(that colour scheme would hurt on any army in any system) Not ment to be nasty and with the bits you have used you have done an awesome job of the conversions (have to admit the weapons and terminators are nice)... just not the image the fluff brings to mind.

Good luck with them.. I shall be watching for the painted models to see if I can be converted into liking them.... just please not lavendar and jade. ;)

Doctor Thunder
18-09-2006, 00:37
I like the idea of female space marines and your fluff is mostly well reasoned; the near-endless weapon ammo irks me a tad, I think years is perhaps a little too much. After looking in my Horus Herasy books I found a reference that the Emperor did indeed only use men for creating the space marines (patriarcal society an' all)...
Hey, if Gram McNeil can write about Ultramarines that don't follow the codex and Iron Warriors that aren't paranoid and still get published, then I'm not going to worry myself over what is vaguely mentioned in a Horus Heresy book.;)


That said I always thought that the Sisters of Silence/later the Sisters of Battle fitted into the void where female space marines could have been quite nicely... denied the full connection to the Emperor but all the more fiesty for it! :evilgrin:
I just want to go on the public record as saying that my army is not intended in any way to slight against either the sisters of battle or the sisters of silence. I know sometimes people get that vibe, and I just want to say that it's not my intent to steal their spotlight.



On the models... unfortunately I don't much like them at all, they should be more angular and the DE legs are just a no... skirts in space... *shiver*.
Well, their legs are armored beneath the skirt, so it wouldn't really cause any more problems in space then the robes, tabbards, capes, cowles, large feathers, and animal skins 40K models already wear. ;)


The connection to Mars, for me, only makes it more likely they would have an angular design to them. And pleease I beg you don't do lavender and jade!(that colour scheme would hurt on any army in any system) Not ment to be nasty and with the bits you have used you have done an awesome job of the conversions (have to admit the weapons and terminators are nice)... just not the image the fluff brings to mind.

Good luck with them.. I shall be watching for the painted models to see if I can be converted into liking them.... just please not lavendar and jade.
Hey, I'm open for new ideas (don't say red). What color scheme (don't say black) would you like to see?:D

bloed_tarnen
18-09-2006, 01:05
"invisible" armour ;)
What about a lime green and burnt orange combo?, I havent seen it done on any GW minis. Myabe have the Green as the major colour and the orange as secondary.

I am still loving the idea, very innovative.

Velkyn Kyil
18-09-2006, 03:32
Hmmm...

I like your original miniatures. While they do look a bit static, I think it's a very good conversion, all over the army. I agree with some of the earlier posters saying that maybe you should use some helmets to break up the monotonous faces.

As for the fluff, it's good... up to the point where their tech becomes teh best. It's probably just a justification of your conversions, but I can't help but feel that it's an attempt to make your army look even better, fluffwise. They have better tech than regular marines, better geneseed, better weapons, better armor...

And these ladies hunt Marines? Because the Imperium betrayed them? Sounds to me you maybe should use the Chaos SM rules..? I mean, they're not loyal to the empire...

n00bLord
18-09-2006, 04:09
How about more than two colors for your scheme. I have no idea which three but that may help a little.

Makaber
18-09-2006, 05:48
They're very nice models, and I really appreciate the effort you've put into them.

However, the concept doesn't work for me. Sure you've taken lengths in justifying everything, but they're so far removed from the archetype that they're not really Space Marines any more. You obviously have a very established vision about what kind of army you want, but I think it's wrong to put a Space Marine template onto it. You're essencially trying to force a square peg into a round hole and it's not working. Sorry.

Doctor Thunder
18-09-2006, 10:58
Hmmm...

I like your original miniatures. While they do look a bit static, I think it's a very good conversion, all over the army. I agree with some of the earlier posters saying that maybe you should use some helmets to break up the monotonous faces.
When you guys say use helmets, what exactly are you referring to?
The reason I ask is because regular space marine helmets would look enormous on them. You ever see those anime chibi drawings, with the huge heads? Yeah, it would look like that. Or, are you guys referring to another helmet I could use that I don't know about?



And these ladies hunt Marines? Because the Imperium betrayed them? Sounds to me you maybe should use the Chaos SM rules..? I mean, they're not loyal to the empire...
I've thought about that as well, and I think it's a very valid point. We'll see what happens there.


You're essencially trying to force a square peg into a round hole and it's not working.
Fair enough. I can respect that. Given the models I'm making, what would be your reccomendation?

Chainsworded Codpiece
18-09-2006, 17:11
However, the concept doesn't work for me. Sure you've taken lengths in justifying everything, but they're so far removed from the archetype that they're not really Space Marines any more. You obviously have a very established vision about what kind of army you want, but I think it's wrong to put a Space Marine template onto it. You're essencially trying to force a square peg into a round hole and it's not working. Sorry.

Let's say they think of themselves as what space Marines ought to have been.

And they see the current Spacer'inos as weaklings and idiots. At best.

Hence, to their own dogma, they are Astartes. As far as they're concerned, the only real heirs to the term "Astartes".

And let's face it, they undergo all of the genhancing, and dogmatic encoding via hypnosis, and seclusion from "mere mankind". Socially, and genetically, they are also Astartes. Just not the same type of Astartes.

Now, mind you, perception isn't everything, but it counts for a lot.

Of course, the Alpha Legion consider themselves to be the "only real Marines" left, too. So that's a sticky wicket.

But...square peg, round hole? Hmmm. I'm not so sure.

I mean, yeah, they sort of "hate the Imperium".

This does not mean that they hate the Imperium in its ideal form, and may see themselves as fighting for what the Emperor really wanted.

Sure, they revere the Mechanicum droid-heads...to a point.

Many Spacer'ino Chapters revere their Primarchs to the point of almost obscuring or forgetting about "dogmatic surrender" to the Emperor (as the Ministorum would have it).

Does this mean they are "not really Imperial?" No.

But many could, with your same assertion, say that extant Marine Chapters are square pegs in round holes.

Many others would say that the contrast and conflict is a)interesting, though paradoxical, and b)interesting because of the paradox.

Chainsworded Codpiece
18-09-2006, 17:25
Oh, my vote for paintscheme is Green, Black and Red. The black should always separate the green and red, and the black should (often or even always) be edged with gold or bronze.

This is to symbolize the nostalgia and assumed perfection of Edenic life (green), married to the will and might of the Gear-Fathers (red), combined and contained within the Astartes badassery of the Avenging Valkyries (black and bronze).

No, it doesn't matter that green/black/red are "African" colors, or the colors of the '70s El Rukns gang. this is the M41. None of that matters.

I don't think I've seen this color combo in a long time, that's all.

Eris
18-09-2006, 18:14
Hey, if Gram McNeil can write about Ultramarines that don't follow the codex and Iron Warriors that aren't paranoid and still get published, then I'm not going to worry myself over what is vaguely mentioned in a Horus Heresy book.

I just found it... didn't say you should pay any attension to it! I was kind of dissapointed it was there to be honest. I like the idea that Guiliman could have been a chauvanist... but then I dislike the Ultramarines with a passion... so he probly was. ;)


Well, their legs are armored beneath the skirt, so it wouldn't really cause any more problems in space then the robes, tabbards, capes, cowles, large feathers, and animal skins 40K models already wear.

Not bothered about movement issues, just really don't like the look. DE warrior legs are terrible and way too static.


Hey, I'm open for new ideas (don't say red). What color scheme (don't say black) would you like to see?

Dark green and a red/gold metal.. maybe with some white or a light indigo purple or orange thrown in. I've seen green/black/red too many times, reminds me too much of Dark Angels. I the end it's your army and I'd like to have my mind changed on the look of the models by the colour scheme. I wait for the first finished paintjob eagerly. :)

Doctor Thunder
19-09-2006, 06:19
I just found it... didn't say you should pay any attension to it! I was kind of dissapointed it was there to be honest. I like the idea that Guiliman could have been a chauvanist... but then I dislike the Ultramarines with a passion... so he probly was. ;)
LOL. :D




Not bothered about movement issues, just really don't like the look. DE warrior legs are terrible and way too static.
Yeah, and there's really very little I can do to make them more dynamic without resculpting half the leg, and I don't even want to try and sculpt chainmail with GS. *shudders* gives me the jibblies just thinking about it.




Dark green and a red/gold metal.. maybe with some white or a light indigo purple or orange thrown in. I've seen green/black/red too many times, reminds me too much of Dark Angels. I the end it's your army and I'd like to have my mind changed on the look of the models by the colour scheme. I wait for the first finished paintjob eagerly. :)
My goal is to have the army done by the end of the year, so hopefully it won't be too much longer.
One thing that I'm planning is to give them a nice tanned skin-tone, like what a hawaiian person would have. No pale-skinned amazons for me, they've been out in the sun. :cool:

Velkyn Kyil
19-09-2006, 07:59
When you guys say use helmets, what exactly are you referring to?
The reason I ask is because regular space marine helmets would look enormous on them. You ever see those anime chibi drawings, with the huge heads? Yeah, it would look like that. Or, are you guys referring to another helmet I could use that I don't know about?

I was thinking Sisters of Battle Helmets? They're not big and if you remove the imagery (do they have any?) it would look pretty cool. If I recall correctly, the general shape of it shouldn't be too hard to sculpt out of greenstuff either. Maybe make a mold and make a few casts out of resin?

EDIT: More helmets like this one http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/DoctorThunder/FTerminator4.jpg (left side) would be cool.

Maybe even just a few high tech goggles, like the SM snipers have? Or a breathing mask ala the one the SM's have on their plastic sprue?

Just something to break up the monotonous faces. It doesn't have to be much...

precinctomega
19-09-2006, 10:36
Ultramarines were originally a second founding chapter, who had official chapter concubines to produce the next generation of ultramarine recruits.

1) Yes, in the original Chapter Approved: Book of the Astronomican, the Ultramarines were a Second Founding chapter.

2) I'm not aware of any canon material that states they had chapter concubines. I am, however, aware of a piece of humorous fiction I wrote on DakkaDakka several years ago that speculated widely on Marine sexuality which included specially-bred "robust" concubines for the Ultramarines, servo-concubines for the Iron Hands and a less-than platonic relationship between Black Templars Initiates and their Novices. The piece received quite wide circulation and was occasionally mistaken for canon on several sites. It is NOT, however, official canon and was always intended to be light-hearted (hence the original title of "Sex, Lies and 40K"). Studio staff have repeatedly emphasized that marine sexual urges are suppressed by hypnoconditioning that redirects the urge into enhanced physical aggression in combat.

Now, onto the Valkyries of the Omnissiah.

1) Great kit-bash. Yes, a bit static and I'll reserve judgment on the vehicles until they're painted but, overall, 9/10. For painting, may I recommend that you stay away from colourful heraldry. It will only serve to emphasize the multiple sources of your models. Given that they are a hi-tech, pragmatic organization, why not give them a classic green-brown camouflage pattern? Keep the mail black with a grey highlight then have cammo across all armour plates.

2) The background feels mangled. There're plenty of ways to achieve a female MEq army that don't need to effectively re-write 10,000 years of history. Bring in the lost chapters? Yeah, why not. But also bolting on the AdMech feels forced. And their name... "Valkyries of the Omnissiah"... It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. If you have to work too hard to justify their existence, you're already losing to fluff-fanatics.

3) WYSIWYG. Even accepting that this is not a tournament army, I would have trouble playing this army in my local club. Distinguishing one weapon from another and placing them in the context of Codex Space Marines is just too much. I can't for the life of me work out what those vehicles are supposed to represent! I accept that your regular playing partners may be more forgiving than me, but it just seems that combining non-standard appearance with non-standard organization and non-standard weapons could leave many opponents wrong-footed simply because they don't know whether a unit is carrying bolters or sniper rifles or melee weapons.

R.

Grindgodgrind
19-09-2006, 11:06
I was most impressed with these ideas Doctor Thunder. An excellent idea!

Doctor Thunder
19-09-2006, 23:56
I accept that your regular playing partners may be more forgiving than me, but it just seems that combining non-standard appearance with non-standard organization and non-standard weapons could leave many opponents wrong-footed simply because they don't know whether a unit is carrying bolters or sniper rifles or melee weapons.

R.
You bring up a good point, but even in tournaments, no one will have a problem with the conversions. I explain what everything is before the game starts, and that gets rid of any confusion that may occur. :)


I was thinking Sisters of Battle Helmets? They're not big and if you remove the imagery (do they have any?) it would look pretty cool. If I recall correctly, the general shape of it shouldn't be too hard to sculpt out of greenstuff either. Maybe make a mold and make a few casts out of resin?
I think you have some good ideas there. I'll see if I can get a hold of some more of those exorcist heads. :)


I was most impressed with these ideas Doctor Thunder. An excellent idea!
Thanks. :)