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View Full Version : Wood elves just got nerfed



vorac
19-09-2006, 10:19
Has anyone thought about how bad the wooldelves have been downgraded, i don't play them myself but here are some things i noticed.

1. All units can be march blocked ( this hurts dryads,waywatchers and wardancers)

2. Characters are no longer protected near units ( no more bow of loren alter kindred highborn machine gun)

3.All ranked missile troops can shoot large targets with all the ranks( handgubbers vs. treemen ...ouch)

4.no sharing powerdice( poor little level 1 branchwraiths)

if i've missed anything lemme know

Xavier
19-09-2006, 10:31
1. So have all skirmishers, they still have to be within 8" to be march blocked and for a compotent wood elf general that will mean in position for a combined charge, all this rule does is introduce tactics to the game.

2. So use cover better block lanes of fire to your "machine gun" or equip him better to be protected.

3. Who in their right mind will take "ranks" of handgunners, the standard is units of roughly 10 which will most likely always get to fire at it anyway. Also wasn't this always the case anyway?

4. Does not really hurt them that badly. I would say the new rules help level 1 mages if anything what with being able to use 3 dice instead of 2 at level 1.

So no I dont think they got nerfed, I love the new rules and your leaving out all the benefits they among other armies got in the new edition.

Atrahasis
19-09-2006, 10:36
3. Who in their right mind will take "ranks" of handgunners, the standard is units of roughly 10 which will most likely always get to fire at it anyway. Also wasn't this always the case anyway?Yes, it was always the case.


4. Does not really hurt them that badly. I would say the new rules help level 1 mages if anything what with being able to use 3 dice instead of 2 at level 1.Level 1 wizards can only use 2 dice to cast each spell.

Latro
19-09-2006, 11:11
It's also a lot more likely that Wood Elves will now (finally) be playing with the rules they were designed to use.

Milgram
19-09-2006, 11:12
I'm ********ting... I'm glad I did not include a flame in to this post.

Atrahasis
19-09-2006, 11:21
casters can now use one more power dice than before. so you're wrong.

I would urge you to read page 107 and then come back and apologise.

Festus
19-09-2006, 12:38
Hi

I would urge you to read page 107 and then come back and apologise.
...quite a sensible idea ;)

Festus

Rork
19-09-2006, 12:43
if i've missed anything lemme know

That you've got to learn how to use your army in context of a new rules set?

EvC
19-09-2006, 13:43
I'm quite certain the the Wood Elves were designed with the new rules in mind. So it's just meant that Wood Elf players have had a year or so of being eased into the system and playing at an advantage, and now they have to play at the same level as the rest of us. What a tragedy!

Alathir
19-09-2006, 13:48
I played a game of new edition last sunday... i used waywatchers, alter kindreds, etc.... the new march blocking rule doesnt hurt too much... any skirmishers that are within 8" are about to charge anyway. Just throw the briarsheath onto the alter highborn and he's sweet. For mages, they'll just hide out in woods like they always do, otherwise just keep them out of range or out of sight. simple. Handgunners arent much of a threat to a treeman, if they do wound the tough bastard, you still have a 4+ armour save and his forest spirit save.

NakedFisherman
19-09-2006, 13:58
Handgunners arent much of a threat to a treeman, if they do wound the tough bastard, you still have a 4+ armour save and his forest spirit save.

However, Spirit of the Forge positively rips him apart. :p

sliganian
19-09-2006, 17:24
However, Spirit of the Forge positively rips him apart. :p


How?

"...This spell can be cast on one enemy unit that is within 24" and visible to the caster. If successfully cast, the enemy’s armour starts to heat up until
it is searing their flesh. The effects of this spell are exactly the same as the Rule of Burning Iron described above, except 2D6 models in the
target unit will be affected"

It DOES NOT say 2D6 hits on the Unit. A Treeman is only 1 model, it only can be hit once.

metro_gnome
19-09-2006, 17:39
hes flamable tho...

sliganian
19-09-2006, 18:09
hes flamable tho...

True... what is the save and toughness on a Treeman?

Atrahasis
19-09-2006, 20:38
The question is, is a treeman the same model once he's taken the first hit?

/philosophical

Latro
19-09-2006, 20:58
Yes, and even more important ... does a falling Treeman on fire make a sound if there's no one around in the forest to hear it?

NakedFisherman
19-09-2006, 21:01
I swear I posted in this thread retracting my statement about the Treeman.

...

g0ddy
19-09-2006, 21:26
You left out the part that the hits are distributed like shooting... which would imply you would hit the treeman 2d6 times.. althought i definately see the issue here - and its definately up for debate.

As for handguns hitting a treeman, 6's to wound, and you get 2 5+ saves?
The spirit of the forge would be hitting the Treeman at S5.. so still only wounding on 5's, however it would allow now save and youd take double wounds.

- g0ddy

Xavier
19-09-2006, 21:41
Level 1 wizards can only use 2 dice to cast each spell.

Is it not 3 now, In 7th ed? I thought it was two higher than level... as it used to be 1 higher than level, but was increased... I could be wrong and do not have my rule book to hand.

edit: My bad, did not read all replies.

T10
19-09-2006, 21:54
Has anyone thought about how bad the wooldelves have been downgraded, i don't play them myself but here are some things i noticed.

1. March-blocking skirmishers affect Lizardman Skink armies worse, since they relied on getting away rather than charging when the enemy got close.

2. Lots of characters will now be spending more time getting to know the troops. Though they can now be freely selected as targets does not mean that they are constantly visible to all enemy missile fire. You just have to be a bit more careful of missile units on hills.

3. I want to see an Empire player fielding 20 handgunners in a 5x4 formation. That's about as many shots at 3+ to hit that is required* to cause a single wound on a Treeman.

4. I'm uncertain as to how this can be construed as being a Wood Elf specific "nerf". Please enlighten us as to how the this change has failed to affect every other wizard in the game.


*) Well, statistics: 4 in 6 to hit, 1 in 6 to wound, 4 in 6 to get past armour save, 4 in 6 to get past ward save: 64 in 1296 chance to cause a wound with a single shot...

-T10

NakedFisherman
19-09-2006, 21:55
You left out the part that the hits are distributed like shooting...

So? Being distributed like shooting doesn't allow it to affect more than one model.

I reckon that clause is in there so people don't get to choose 2D6 models to target. :p

Ganymede
20-09-2006, 01:11
I'm quite certain the the Wood Elves were designed with the new rules in mind. So it's just meant that Wood Elf players have had a year or so of being eased into the system and playing at an advantage, and now they have to play at the same level as the rest of us. What a tragedy!

That does explain why Alters are so cheap and scouts are so expensive in the wood elf book. In 7th edition, alters became weaker and scouts became stronger.

vorac
20-09-2006, 08:55
ok so maybe i was off on a limb with the whole ranked handgunners but i do believe that they do suffer in the magic because the branchwraiths are only level 1's, i did write this thread at 3:30 in the morning, i should have drank more coffee :), but i would like to comment of the thing mentioned about the skinks and that is Hell yeah! those little buggers needed a tone down the lizzies have everything dammit.

T10
20-09-2006, 09:38
Branch wraiths suffer as much as any other Level 1 wizard in the game, especially those fighter-types that receive spell-casting abilities as an upgrade, such as High Elves or Nechrarcs.

The latter probably suffer more because those upgrdes are pretty expensive and come out of their magic item allowance.

-T10

ZomboCom
20-09-2006, 12:17
Branchwraiths probably suffer less than most lvl 1 casters, since they're also pretty reasonable in combat.

The wood elf book was written with 7th in mind. It was a little overpowered in 6th and is now much more ballanced.

sliganian
20-09-2006, 12:42
The spirit of the forge would be hitting the Treeman at S5.. so still only wounding on 5's, however it would allow now save and youd take double wounds.

- g0ddy

True, but for a much more economical casting value of 5+ I could simply use 'Rule of Burning Iron' against the Treeman for the same effect; vs. the not-so-economical-I-hope-I-don't-die-rolling-this-many-dice value of 12+ for Spirit of the Forge. :D

eldrak
20-09-2006, 14:12
On another note will Doom and Darkness have effect on the treeman (or any other stubborn troops) now? It is a ld modifier not a break test modifier otoh stubborn says use ld on profile.

Someone said to me it didn't have effect in 6th ed and that it was in some FAQ.

Brother Asmodeus
30-09-2006, 09:22
Allegedly, the the last three WFB armies books were written with the new rules in mind (Ogres, Dwarves and Wood Elves). The Wood Elvises (Uhh-Huh, thnk you very much pretty momma) were harsh under the previous rules and so come back into line in the new edition. Being surrounded by Glade Riders at the end of turn two (old fast cavalry, moving through your battle-line gaps with 18" marches and unlimited reforms!!!) would be utterly brutal in the new edition with the new "death by outflanking units" rule....

Still trying to work out how to make the Ogres work in the new rules though???

ZomboCom
30-09-2006, 11:40
On another note will Doom and Darkness have effect on the treeman (or any other stubborn troops) now? It is a ld modifier not a break test modifier otoh stubborn says use ld on profile.

Someone said to me it didn't have effect in 6th ed and that it was in some FAQ.

The treeman is immune to psych, and I believe doom and darkness doesn't work on immune to psych troops.

In terms of other stubborn troops, yes it would have an effect and they'd take break tests stubborn on the modified leadership.

ashaman76
01-10-2006, 16:13
#2 True, characters no longer have the protection of proximate friendly units, but that street goes both ways. WE archery will now DESTROY enemy characters stupid enough not to join a unit.