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View Full Version : 10th scout company, vets or rookies?



Justicar Jacob
20-09-2006, 18:20
The way space marines use scouts can vary. They can either be seasoned veterens trained to take out key points, infiltrate, ect ect. Or they can be initiates of the chapter. Im confused, which is blood angles? Are they initiates or are they seasoned veterens?

I would have to think about death company. They dawn power armor. if a scout fell to the black rage he would need his carapace to be able to work with the power armor. And the codex speaks of them like they're vets but the BLood Angel Series talk like they are initiates.

Xisor
20-09-2006, 18:27
Never heard of no Blood Angles. Cute be acute lack of knowledge for me, but that's what degrees are for! :eek: :rolleyes:

Blood Angels on the other hand are served by Rookie Scouts. Scouts are still exceptionally professional soldiers though, vastly superior to a huge majority of normal 'human' soldiers. So in a sense still 'veterans', but not 'Marine Veterans'.

The only chapter I know of that utilises strict 'veteran' Scouts are the Space Wolves. A simple case of them being too cool for school and saying "nah nah!" to the Codex Astartes.

Xisor

slasher
20-09-2006, 18:31
IIRK Scouts are initiates to the chapter. But are taught infiltration and demolition so they can aid their battle brothers until such time as their bodies have accepted all the glans and stuff and can phyiscal ware the power armour. The exception to this is the black templars who have them in the crusader squads as they are taught every thing an SM needs to know and the space wolf wolf scouts who are loners and dont fit into the packs that are space wolf squads. So a blood angels scout who fell to black rage would be giving power armour as hes not going to use it properly any way (personal oppinon) Hope that helps

Setrus
20-09-2006, 18:51
I think Slasher has the best explanation for blood angels. They're going to die anyway so it's not like they need to get a full training in the use of the power armour anyway. :p

As for chapters in a more general perspective...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49838
My force: ALMOST only scouts, no one's calling them rookies I tell ya. :p

For a more codex chapter I'd say most scouts are initiates though, very experienced and skilled, but not in such a degree as a full marine. Then we have the veteran sergeants that should be fully fledging marines that has taken on themselves to 'babysit' their younger brothers. :rolleyes:

I always thought it was odd how comparatively wimpy the black templar scouts were compared to the normal ones...must be a very early stage in development huh?

Justicar Jacob
20-09-2006, 19:23
Cool chapter info Setrus. I was really curious. Think about it: Scouts; infultrate, snipe, amubush, demolitions....ect

Those are really tough and scary aspects of battle. Sneaking around trying not to get cuaght is pretty hard and adrenaline rushing.

Scenerio 1
Captain Leonatos(pre-bloodquest) : Alright Scouts, to the new recruits: welcome to the second company, you have been hand picked by the sanguinary priests and chaplains; Feel honored. You're mission will be to infiltrate into ork territory in this dense jungle.

Our scanners have picked up pockets of ork mobs everwhere, but we can't pin point thier exact position due to the terrain, do you're best to avoid them. Find the supply dump they are using to stow thier weapons, tanks, and ammo.

Use the provided melta charges and turn their weapons, tanks, and ammo into moleten slag to weaken thier war machine, and resolve.

Should you encounter any of the Xenos scum to your very best to take them out silently.

The loud noise and the extreme amount of light of the melta charges will probably compramise your position so you may have to fight your way to back up while we send 1st and 2nd tactical squads with a land raider for your evac. Captain Khoris will be standing by on the teleporter bay with a 5 man squad of blessed terminators to assist you once you have detonated the chargers, and activated the teleport homer. May the Empreror and Sanguinius be with you!

Um k. NOW, I know space marines are enhanced to all awesomeness and the scouts would be assisted by veterans but damn that would be one hell of a situation to send an unexperianced one into.

Setrus
20-09-2006, 19:35
Thanks for the feedback. :)

And EXACTLY! Maybe it should be manditory to add a veteran sergeant to any scout unit? :p

I guess there's the armour factor for the new recruits and the fact that they mostly avoid combat while 'real' marines goes looking for it. (fools...) So ergo they reason that the new guys should handle it easier...

But I'll be damned if it won't get nasty if those scouts get caught...which would be a waste of precious geen-seed. (Valuing an organ higher then the marine himself...and they say the 40K galaxy isn't grim. :p )

Or maybe they're using the 'scout-program' as a sort of final test to take out the weedy ones? :p

So...scouts: Special ops or surveliance?

CrimsonTider
21-09-2006, 22:17
Well, the Black Templar scouts are definitely used as a learn or die type of canno fodder. Space Wolf scouts are elite special ops kind of guys, like seals, rangers, etc...

Blood Angel Scouts are just as good as normal marine, just not as well equipped. A BA scout who goes all balck rage would definitely be given power armour and a jump pack, so I believe we could safely he assume he is trained in their proper usage.
It seems different chapters turn their scouts loose at different times in their training, and use them for different purposes. But vanilla marines (codex chapters) would seem to use them as survielance and sabotage and sniper forces, for forward spotting and then for flanking support.

marv335
21-09-2006, 22:40
game mechanics aside (if 1/6th of all blood angels fell to the black rage every time they fought, there would be no more blood angels left)

blood angels scouts are unlikely to fall to the black rage.

anyway, the scouts are the rookies of the chapter. although there are a couple of exceptions.

they are generally led and instructed by the veterans of the chapter.

Inq. Veltane
22-09-2006, 00:01
Well, the Black Templar scouts are definitely used as a learn or die type of canno fodder. Space Wolf scouts are elite special ops kind of guys, like seals, rangers, etc...

Blood Angel Scouts are just as good as normal marine, just not as well equipped. A BA scout who goes all balck rage would definitely be given power armour and a jump pack, so I believe we could safely he assume he is trained in their proper usage.
It seems different chapters turn their scouts loose at different times in their training, and use them for different purposes. But vanilla marines (codex chapters) would seem to use them as survielance and sabotage and sniper forces, for forward spotting and then for flanking support.

Marine Scouts are a hundred times as elite as the SEALs. The Storm Trooper regiments are probably more elite than the SEALs, Marine Scouts are off the scale.

Secondly as soon as a Scout has his black carapace he is no longer a scout. Scouts are incapable of wearing power armour because their geneseed hasn't worked all its mojo yet. Scouts basically do what normal marines are incapable of - stealth work. A full marine in his PA just can't be particularly quiet. Scouts can be. Now of course usually the Marines will have Guard support and it will be STs doing the special ops work whilst the Marines strike straight at the key target en masse but... game mechanics get in the way of fluff there. Most 40k battles are very 'unrealistic' in that sense, two even forces fighting on an even battlefield...

Pilgrim
22-09-2006, 16:04
The situation for the Blood Angels is, to the best of my knowledge, the same as the vast majority of Adeptus Astartes chapters (since the Blood Angels themselves are close adherents to the Codex Astartes). That is to say that the majority of the 10th company will be composed of initiates, those members of the chapter still undergoing training.

There will obviously be veteran members of the chapter within the 10th company as well both as officers, trainers and also as specialists. The 10th company is normally considered to be the scout company of an Adeptus Astartes chapter. This means it takes on recon roles (in conjunction with the light vehicle elements), rear area operations and other light-combat roles. The initiates will be capable of handling the first two with a reasonable degree of success. The experienced marines would be the ones who form sniper units (as seen during the Badab War), conduct headhunter missions (often with teleport back-up) and so on.

I do not see the scout company being used in the traditional Adeptus Astartes shock-assault deployments, since they are totally unsuited for such duties. They will be deployed in campaigns, where an Adeptus Astartes chapter is supporting the Imperial Army, and will take on the roles described above. The discrepancy between scouts being described as both veterans and initiates is due to the company including both (although with a much higher proportion of initiates). The veterans are going to be used for the critical duties, where skill and experience is needed, as well as being split among initiate units to provide leadership, experience and training. The initiates themselves will be grouped into units which perform the easier duties where there is only light combat expected (so that their inexperience is unlikely to prove fatal).

Adrian

CrimsonTider
25-09-2006, 14:58
I agree that marine scouts are elite units when compared to IG units, but not all marine chapters use scouts the same way. This is reflected pretty clearly in the different stats and different weaponry that scouts have for specific chapters.
Blood Angels scouts are equipped for close combat, with only 1 out of 6 scout squads being able to be equipped with normal scout weapon options. Black Templar scouts are not as good as a normal space marine scout, having BS and WS skills equal to IG gaurdsmen.
And space wolf scouts are hardened veterans in every sense of the word.

And just because a scout has the black carapace installed does not mean he automatically becomes a power armor wearing marine. Many marines are the sgts and veteran sgts leading the scout squads.

I have always felt the scouts is where an initiate starts, then he moves forward if his ability and bravery show he has the merit to achieve. I see no reason why a scout in a normal marine army, or even a Blood Angel army list could not be a veteran who is still a scout simply because he is rather good at infiltration work.
After all, our own elite infiltration units of today who work behind enemy lines are usually the most highly trained we have.