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Pendragon
26-06-2005, 17:25
So I had a bit of a break from all things 40K, but browsing Forge World for a bit as well as stumbling into this place kinda got me back in the mood so to speak.
Having a bit of surplus time and money on my hands sure helped too.

So why am I telling you this? Because I'm really out of the loop these days (I kinda dropped out of it around the time when then new Rhino and Predator came out) som I'm not really up to speed with latest armies and rules.

Basically, I was thinking about starting a new army little by little to have a distraction when I get bored from painting more Black Templars (I still have like fiftyish marines and half a dozen vehicles needing assembly and painting), and I was thinking of Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters.

As I recall, both of these armies can ally with both Space Marines and Imperial Guard and I was considering using them to transition to an IG army. Basically, starting out with a fair amount of SM allies to make up the numbers and gradually replacing them with IG until i have enough for a free standing army.

Does this work, and how should I go about it? Is it a viable solution for both WH and DH? What kind of core force do I need?

Oh, if it isn't apparent yet, I haven't got either of the codices yet, but I was planning on getting them (well at least one of them) tomorrow as well as the IG codex.


Oh, right, theres another thing. I have a few half filished custom vehicles contructed with the 3rd ed VDR. Is that still legal? If not, where do I get the new VDR?

/Joel

Brimstone
26-06-2005, 17:48
Well Black Templars are up next so don't abandon them. Witch hunters with their hatred for psykers would fit very well into a themed army with the Inquistion and the Templars.

You can include allied Space Marines or IG in a WH army but you cannot use any SoB.

The otherway of doing it is to have WH as allies, this works better when you want to ally a small amount of =][= to your existing army.

No new VDR yet the old one still applies.

Ravening Wh0re
26-06-2005, 19:06
Oh hey Pen!

been quite a while!

it all rather depends on what kind of ally force you want.

daemonhunters are expensive but hurty if you go with the grey knights.

witch hunters have lots of anti-psykers stuff, ld testing and of course, sisters.

Pendragon
26-06-2005, 22:25
Hey Whor... Rave... eh... I'll just go with RH. ;) Brimstone too. Good to see you both again.

So Templars are getting theyre own 'dex already? Goodness. I thought they were going to have to make do with the chapter traits wich are in the new SM 'dex IIRC.

So I cant go with sistahs in my BT army? Crap, they'd go together like, well, things that go really well together.

So, uhm, that leaves me with just the plain Inquisitor main core of troops? That's considerably less fun.

How about the Daemonhunters? Seems like a bit cheesy, but mixing up Templars and Grey Knights would be kinda fun. Or am I left with just the inquisitorial core there too?

What kind of other non-SM, non-SoB or non-IG forces are available?

/Joel

EDIT: And "YAAAY!" to keeping my Rhino mortar carrier, Tankhunting Predator with Gatling lascannon and turbocharged engines and Custom dread with Two power fists with a heavy bolter on each. :D

With a little luck, I'll have some WIP photos in the P&T-forum up tomorrow.

Son of Morkai
26-06-2005, 22:30
You can have Sisters in a Templar army, but not Templars in a Sister army.

Pendragon
26-06-2005, 22:36
You can have Sisters in a Templar army, but not Templars in a Sister army.

Cool. How does that work out?

Cos' then it'd be even easier, bolstering my Templars with Sisters'til the sisters can stand alone, and then bolstering them with IG 'til the IG can stand alone.

Presto, three armies without having to wait 'til each is done before I can try the units out.

/Joel

Ravening Wh0re
26-06-2005, 23:17
Your Templars can have WitchHunter allies.

Whilst a WitchHunter army may not have SM allies. The fighting force for the Ordo Hereticus are the sisters y'see.

edit: just in case you didnt know. both witchhunters and daemon hunters can take stormtroopers (in rhinos, chimeras or foot) as troops. so you can have them as your sole fighting force, to complement your power armour, or not have them at all

Cloudscape_online
26-06-2005, 23:18
Black templars as main core army (50%+) , and then at least 2 troops choices of Sisters plus whatever else you need. I'm not sure if the sisters can still use their Faith abilities though.

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 00:23
Your Templars can have WitchHunter allies.

Whilst a WitchHunter army may not have SM allies. The fighting force for the Ordo Hereticus are the sisters y'see.

Uh-huh... And there different rules for allies in 4th ed? Cos in 3rd they were pretty much nonexistant except for the multiple charts loophole.


Black templars as main core army (50%+) , and then at least 2 troops choices of Sisters plus whatever else you need. I'm not sure if the sisters can still use their Faith abilities though.

So this is how it works with allies? If so, It sounds pretty groovy. Of course I'm still probably gonna break the official rules and get a Forge World Valkyrie and convert it for Adeptas Sorotitas use. Because honestly, with a name like "Valkyrie" it would be a travesty not to.


edit: just in case you didnt know. both witchhunters and daemon hunters can take stormtroopers (in rhinos, chimeras or foot) as troops. so you can have them as your sole fighting force, to complement your power armour, or not have them at all

No regular IG squads? Can stormtroopers use rhinos as a part of an IG force?

/Joel

Johnny Bravo
27-06-2005, 00:26
To the best of my knowledge, only Inquisitorial Stormtroopers can take a Rhino as a transport, but I don't have my 'Dex handy, so don't quote me on that or anything.

Welcome back, Pen. I was wondering where you'd been. Just so's you know, I blame you for my Something*Positive addiction. ;)

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 00:35
To the best of my knowledge, only Inquisitorial Stormtroopers can take a Rhino as a transport, but I don't have my 'Dex handy, so don't quote me on that or anything.

Hmm... If I paint a Rhino up just for them, I want them to be able yo use it all the time. Besides, a rhino in IG army would be appropriate for the elite stormtroopers. I mean they deserve to travel in style don't they? ;)

Oh how I remeber the good old days when guardsmen could ride in rhinos too...


Welcome back, Pen. I was wondering where you'd been. Just so's you know, I blame you for my Something*Positive addiction. ;)

Have You Spayed YOUR Catgirl? (http://www.warehouse23.com/item.html?id=SP3001)

/Joel - still addicted

Johnny Bravo
27-06-2005, 00:53
Pen... FOR YOU!!!! (http://www.somethingpositive.net/random.shtml)


Caution: Image not safe for children, politicians, work-viewing or catgirl enthusiasts. You have been warned.

On topic!! Like I said, I could be wrong. I don't have my Witch Hunters Codex handy, and I haven't seen my IG Codex in months. :(

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 01:45
Pen... FOR YOU!!!! (http://www.somethingpositive.net/random.shtml)

Caution: Image not safe for children, politicians, work-viewing or catgirl enthusiasts. You have been warned.

I BUKK... nah, that was just funny the first time. ;)

Did I mention how totally awesome it is to be back? Now I just need to remind myself on how paypal works and I'll be a guilder in no time at all.


On topic!! Like I said, I could be wrong. I don't have my Witch Hunters Codex handy, and I haven't seen my IG Codex in months. :(

Meh, I guess I'll have to pick up one of each tomorrow. Among other things. With some luck, I'll still have some money left for actual minis. ;)

/Joel

Sashu
27-06-2005, 03:01
In a Guard Army, Stormtroopers can't use a Rhino.

And yes, you can't use SM and Sisters in a WH army, but you can use IG asd sisters in a WH army.

Sgt John Keel
27-06-2005, 10:51
In a Guard Army, Stormtroopers can't use a Rhino.


They can still use Inquisitorial Storm Troopers in Rhinos as allies.

/Adrian

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 10:58
Well, thats that then. Time to get my little brother and mosey on down to the store.
/Joel

PBGhost
27-06-2005, 11:04
Just to clarify all the allies stuff:

Witchhunters have access to several different forces, including:

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Sisters of Battle
Inducted Imperial Guard
Inducted Space Marines

You may use Inquisitorial Stormtroopers may be mixed with anything else. You may not have both Inducted Guard and Inducted Marines. You may not have both Inducted Marines and Sisters. Note that you may have Inducted Guard and Sisters. Additionally, you may take up to 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack in the form of allies from the Daemonhunters. These allied units may not be inducted units, and may not fill the compulsory 1 HQ 2 Troops.

The above is also true for Daemonhunters, replacing Knights with Sisters and vice versa.

In a Space Marine army, you may take up to 1 HQ, 1 Elites, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack in the form of allies from both the Witchhunter and the Daemonhunter Codecies. These allied units may not be inducted units, and cannot fill the compulsory 1HQ 2Troops. Not that you may have Space Marines + Knights/Sisters in an army like this (You could even have all three).

The above is also true for Imperial Guard, replacing Space Marines with Imperial Guard.

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 11:19
Just to clarify all the allies stuff:

Witchhunters have access to several different forces, including:

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Sisters of Battle
Inducted Imperial Guard
Inducted Space Marines

You may use Inquisitorial Stormtroopers may be mixed with anything else. You may not have both Inducted Guard and Inducted Marines. You may not have both Inducted Marines and Sisters. Note that you may have Inducted Guard and Sisters. Additionally, you may take up to 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack in the form of allies from the Daemonhunters. These allied units may not be inducted units, and may not fill the compulsory 1 HQ 2 Troops.

The above is also true for Daemonhunters, replacing Knights with Sisters and vice versa.

In a Space Marine army, you may take up to 1 HQ, 1 Elites, 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack in the form of allies from both the Witchhunter and the Daemonhunter Codecies. These allied units may not be inducted units, and cannot fill the compulsory 1HQ 2Troops. Not that you may have Space Marines + Knights/Sisters in an army like this (You could even have all three).

The above is also true for Imperial Guard, replacing Space Marines with Imperial Guard.

And inducted marines can be any kind of marines, or just plain vanilla marines?

/Joel

PBGhost
27-06-2005, 11:30
Vanilla only. If you like BTs, your best option is probably BTs with Witchhunter allies.

Looking at my previous post...woah, thats entirely too complicated. :p

Pendragon
27-06-2005, 20:19
Alright. Now I've been by the store and spent a load of cash on 40K stuff, and still didnt walk out with a single mini. Got myself the 4th rulebook, a long overdue carrying case as well as no less than 5 codices, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters. Oh, and Tau for my little brother.

Speaking of wich, is Tau a good starter army? He really likes the kroots and the crisis suits. Any ideas how to build a cost-effective (money-wise) force with an emphase on those? Wich still relies on simple enough tactics for an 11-year old to grasp?
Vanilla only. If you like BTs, your best option is probably BTs with Witchhunter allies.

That will be completely satisfactory. Where do I find the allies rules? Rulebook or WH codex?

/Joel - what the hell is this BBB I see mentioned everywhere?

PBGhost
27-06-2005, 20:33
BBB was Big Black Book, the third Ed rulebook. The 4th Ed rulebook is the BGB, Big Grey Book. The rules for allies can be found in the Witch Hunter and Daemonhunter codecies.

Serpent
27-06-2005, 20:48
Tau is a good army if you like shooting. And driving the opponent mad in the Assault phase (when they bounce backwards). But you knew that already...

Fire Warriors are the most cost effective unit in a Tau army. Kroots are cool, usually give + in a comp score (used in Swedish Tournies), and a good countercharge (for Tau, anyway).

Good luck,
Serpent