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ShadowKitana
22-09-2006, 02:25
Title says it all. I have seen references to it but I do not know why. Can anyone shed some light on it for me.

Kage2020
22-09-2006, 03:20
In the canonical background? No. There's too little information on it and it just turns into a hand-waved exercise of, "Well, yes, of course they crystalise!" Thus lies the realm of hand-waving.

Of course, fans note that "wraithbone" is known to crystalise at points of psychic flux (such as web portals). That is, psychic energy makes wraithbone do funky things! Those self-same fans tend to view Eldar physiology as involving wraithbone. I'm not talking about that whole Xenology malarky, but rather the idea that wraithbone might be a much more significant component to Eldar physiology. Also, you've got the idea from the Eldar codices that wraithbone is implanted into the Eldar...

So, what do you want? Canonical references to very little at all, or fan speculation that attempts to integrate the various editions of the 'fluff'?

Kage

BrainFireBob
22-09-2006, 05:21
The correct answer, Kage, is to provide a reason for Farseers to have T4

Hellebore
22-09-2006, 05:35
The correct answer, Kage, is to provide a reason for Farseers to have T4

Not that that stoped GW from putting it back down to 3...:cries: :p

Kage has pretty much pointed to all the stuff on it, and also illustrated my position on it (I'm one of those "wraithbone integral to physiognomy types;) )

Hellebore

Kage2020
22-09-2006, 05:35
Well, of course it is!, BrainFireBob! Erm, or maybe not. Please remember that I do not feel that interpretation of abstraction that is the wargame is not always relevant. This is one of those cases, or one amongst many. Of course, I have a different agenda from the 40k universe than, it would, appear you have.

Kage

BrainFireBob
22-09-2006, 06:36
Eh, fluffwise . . .

As I recall, Eldar bones are made out of a psycho-conductive material that's not bone-solid per se. That's out of a recent bit of fluff I know I've seen more than once recently, but can't place.

I can see Eldar "bones" crystallizing in reaction to exposure to psychic energy. Especially if their bones "channel" warp energy their bodies can then make useful.

Skrittiblak
22-09-2006, 11:05
IIRC this was explained in the 2nd ed Eldar Codex (which I don't have on me right now).

Farseers often spend a fair amount of time communing with the spirits of dead eldar in the Infinity Circuit. This prolonged exposure however has the tendency of crystalizing their bodies.

This may have been dropped from the fluff however because, as pointed, out Farseers are down to T3 again.

The Laughing Gods Avatar
22-09-2006, 13:42
I always took it that Eldar bones were indeed wraith bone, or a similar structure. As Kage pointed out wraith bone crystallizes with exposure to psychic flux and no Eldar uses more psychic abilities or spends more time in the seer chamber than a Farseer.

Xisor
22-09-2006, 15:32
The best 'hand wave' I can see to account for all this is the one already mentioned by Kage: That wraithbone just 'crystallises' at psychic-focal points. Given the generally impressive nature of Farseer Abilities, it's not surprising to me that it'd start to condense there too. *Why* that happens is another matter. Taking the presence of wraithbone at places of extreme warp-interaction then I'd assume it's simply/almost a 'leakage' or even arguably some form of coagulent which 'sortof' tries to heal wounds in the Warp/Reality divide.

Nice and hand wavey...

Xisor

<waves hands>

ShadowKitana
22-09-2006, 15:34
Ok, so no real hard evidence but there are theroies. I did see another question, why do the eldar impland Wraithbone in themselves.

Kage2020
22-09-2006, 15:38
Perhaps to mediate the Waystone and other "superscience" possibilities? Basically, whatever you want. Alternatively for the most recent canonical information, check out Xenology. You're not going to learn very much from it and, to be honest, what you can learn is a bit... dubious, but there we go.

Kage

Ikkaan
22-09-2006, 15:38
Because its their favored material for augmetics ?

ShadowKitana
22-09-2006, 18:12
Well, I am mad at xenology right now because the f'd up a noticable peice of Tau biology.

Do Eldar even do Augments? Every Eldar I see seems whole.

cav da man
22-09-2006, 18:17
Well, I am mad at xenology right now because the f'd up a noticable peice of Tau biology.

Do Eldar even do Augments? Every Eldar I see seems whole.
theyre that good at what they do....:)

Khaine's Messenger
22-09-2006, 18:29
In the canonical background? No. There's too little information on it and it just turns into a hand-waved exercise of, "Well, yes, of course they crystalise!" Thus lies the realm of hand-waving.

I always thought it was for the same handwavy reason that temperatures drop and other strange phenomena occur in the proximity of psykers--it's the Eldar version of the "magic frost" that affects everyone else, but a bit more regimented because they were almost directly engineered to cope with "psychic energy."

I mean, it's not like they slowly waste away (practitioners of dhar-magic in WHFB) or turn to stone (Chaos Dwarfs.... ;) ).

ShadowKitana
22-09-2006, 19:28
But if they where engineered to cope with "psychic energy" then why the drawback of crystalizing. Also, how long until this effect starts to manifest?

Ikkaan
22-09-2006, 20:40
Is it really a drawback to become superconductive for your favored energy and also harder to be harmed?

Flame of Udun
22-09-2006, 20:55
I would have thought that the stuff they crystallize into is the same or a similar material to that of the spirit stones which would fit nicely with the whole crystallising around points of psychic turbulence thing since its what happens on the crone worlds which are in/near (i forget exactly) the Eye of Terror which is one whole heap of psychic swirliness. I mean wraithbone is/was a psycho plastic and in my mind doesn't seem to fit the bill.

sneb
22-09-2006, 21:11
I always thought they crystalized since they are a kind of scions for the warp(thus the ghosthelm to protect theirselves), a peice of fluff inthe CWE codex kind of implies this if you want a source. the cystalizing could be just their way of mutating due to warp exposure.

even though i'm kind of mad about this alleged drop in toughness it would make sense since the old codex did give the farseers a pretty high I and WS stat for being partially crystal

Kage2020
22-09-2006, 22:24
I always thought it was for the same handwavy reason that temperatures drop and other strange phenomena occur in the proximity of psykers--it's the Eldar version of the "magic frost" that affects everyone else, but a bit more regimented because they were almost directly engineered to cope with "psychic energy."
Oh, I know why I think it happens, which is broadly for the above reason. The channelling of psychic energy causes the internal wraithbone to crystalise. Thus all Eldar suffer from the same phenomenon, it is just with the amount of energy that the "Farseers" throw around it tends to be somewhat more... apparent. ;)

Kage

ShadowKitana
23-09-2006, 02:45
Now I may not be a Fluff expert, but I have only heard of Farseers crystalizing.

Kage2020
23-09-2006, 03:13
And neither am I. With that said <pointed look at signature> "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." All I personally offer up is the premise that crystallisation is keyed to the amoutn of psychic energy that is channelled and, further, that if similar amounts were to be channelled by a non-Farseer they might share a similar experience.

:D

Kage

BrainFireBob
23-09-2006, 03:22
Which begs the question:

Do the Shadowseers crystallize?

Kage2020
23-09-2006, 05:11
Depends on whether you want to integrate the background material or create yet another exception to an exception of an exception. There is, however, sufficient lattitude in that self-same material to allow for a bit of wiggle...

Kage

bigred
24-09-2006, 04:34
My take on the question:

The Eldar are a highly psychic race, able to manipulate the physical universe via their psychic abilities through a variety of different materials, of which wraithbone is the most psychicly attuned and the strongest. (Not all Eldar objects are composed of wraithbone).

We also have the issue of the Spiritstones, the crystalline orbs that are capable of holding an Eldar soul, and are worn (when unoccupied) by living Eldar as Waystones. These stones are described as being created en mass at the instant of the Fall, as they represent the physical byproduct of pure material-plane/warpspace intermixing. They are effectively gateways existing in both dimensions, and the Eldar legends speak of one of their Goddess Isha giving some of these items to early Eldar to communicate with them, after the Gods "acsended" out of the Material universe.

Now lets take a Farseer. They represent the absolute pinnacle of Eldar psychic ability. Many stories describe their consciousness as twisting into an absolute alien thing, able to "live" within the multitude of alternate possibilities of present and future, as well as past via communing with souls in the Infinity Circuit, or the Infinity Circuit as a whole...

In time, as their power grows, they begin to "slip away" from the material universe, as their utterly powerful souls range far and wide through endless twists of fate and possibility. They begin to spend more and more time communing with the Infinity Circiut, and in effect become physical conduits between the psychic realm and the material universe....just like the spirit stones.

Other stories imply that at the very end, its not so much a "death" for the Farseer to completely crystallize, as a long planned and awaited departure of his soul towards bigger and more important deeds "on the ther side" so to speak. They have simply reached a level of psychic achievement where their physical bodies are no longer needed, more a hinderance than a plus.

-bigred