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View Full Version : Hordes of Chaos(Khorne) vs. Wood Elves tactics?



Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 12:31
Mainly in 3000 points. What are the best ways for a Khorne army to deal with things like waywatchers, glade riders, warhawks, and other maneuverable arching units? I usually end up just chasing them down with my bloodthirster, but it's very inefficient. I play a mortal army with Archaon as the general.(So it's technically not a khorne army, but everything besides Archaon's unit is Khorne.)

Suggestions?

Pravus
25-09-2006, 13:01
Chaos Furies, beastherds and marauder cavalry. All wood elves are T3 nancy boys so even the weakest troops on a Chaos roster can roll over them with few problems. The non-flying units require a bit of shepherding using beastherds and warhounds/marauder cavalry but soon enough, they'll have nowhere to go. Warhawks are more of a problem, but three S3 longbow shots a turn are hardly going to cause you any worry I would have thought and they hardly charge with the power of a Brettonian lance.

For Khorne based armies against any opponent the message is simple "Get into them - feck them up"

Alathir
25-09-2006, 13:47
It'd be tough for Khorne to take on the Wood Elves... mainly because the Asrai have great control of the board, with the movement phase being their best, the Elven General could pretty much control the whole game.

I don't know much about Khorne or their tactics, but I do play Wood Elves, and I can tell you this, as long as you can deny them situations that are completely in their favour then you shouldnt have too much trouble. As Pravus said, my Elven soldiers are all pansy girls, and as soon as you can get into combat, you're fine. If any of their units attack you to the front, the combat is pretty much forfeit. Don't fall for their tricks and dont assume to be able to predict them, Elves are tricksy. Play in the moment, see the whole board and you'll come out with the W.

Nadir
25-09-2006, 14:28
"As Pravus said, my Elven soldiers are all pansy girls"

Really that depends on how you see it. Against shooting - sure. In hth, simply no. Wardancers and Eternal Guard are murderers without remorse, WD more so than EG but you get my point. EG will munch through softer units like hounds/marauders. I think the game will be hard but as said above, use the non-frenzied units to your advantage.

Also, do you always play with Archaon? Wow, I wouldnt feel good about that after SoC (and I dont like him as a SC either), how does it usually go with him in the match?

ROCKY
25-09-2006, 15:37
Archaon is too expensive to use and he IS not invincible, I would suggest using a khorne lord, take along 2or 3 exalteds and take a crap load of screeners to protect your expensive units and use units like flesh hounds, furies, and the all godly hellcannon. to bring the fight to them in the early going pack about 4-5 units of khorne knights, and some chariots.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 16:07
I'm not the best with tactics and planning, so I'me sure there are better choices than Archaon, but I like him all the same. 10A with WS9 and S5 is quite deadly, even if he sometimes wounds himself. I don't think I could make a lord of Khorne pack the same punch or have 1+ and 3+ saves.

I was thinking of maybe having a Lord of Khorne on a Chaos Dragon to replace him, but if I do that I can't have any non-khorne units. (Furies)

Also, I'm going to be playing in 3000 point tournament sometime in the spring, so I'll be facing a wide variety of armies. What's a good strategy for being prepared for a variety of armies?

Capslock
25-09-2006, 16:50
Warhounds are excellent as LoS blocker to keep your more valuable units from being led around by the nose. The new skirmish rules will mean that his units of waywatchers and and wardances can't get as close you as previously without increasing their risk of combat when its not advantageous to them. A healthy supply of high armor units should mitigate the damage from bowfire and waywatchers can be dealth with quickly and grusomely by beastherds.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 16:56
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what some of these terms mean. LoS? Screeners?

Capslock
25-09-2006, 17:31
LoS= Line of Sight
Screeners= models or units that interdict your enemies line of sight to protect another unit from shooting (more often) or charging.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 17:50
Ah, thanks.

Starbane
25-09-2006, 17:59
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what some of these terms mean. LoS? Screeners?

spoken like a true khorne general
they don't need those kinda things....just run and swing :D

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 21:05
See, that's how I play. And I know I could be a lot better player if I thought things out more. I'm going to try using some screens next time I play against WE.

Any suggestions for a good multi-purpose 3000 Point list?

Gekiganger
25-09-2006, 21:14
Anything with teh mark of khorne won't need (well, get to use) tactics. You're facing the most nimble army with the must unwieldy. Plant your troops and hope for the best, any un Khorne marked unit should be used to either block LoS of your troops so they don't get drawn out.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 21:25
Yeah, I'm thinking of having a couple of cheapy units of marauders for screens now that I'm starting to understand tactics a little better.

Would it be better to use Archaon and a Bloodthirster as my Lords or a lord of Khorne on a dragon and a Bloodthirster?

Also, is having a unit of bloodletters worth slowing down the bloodthirster? I'm thinking no.

Lyquis
25-09-2006, 21:32
I was thinking of maybe having a Lord of Khorne on a Chaos Dragon to replace him, but if I do that I can't have any non-khorne units. (Furies)



If you have a general with the Mark of Khorne, you may still have units with no marks or the Mark of Undivided.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 21:39
Really? I assumed Furies counted as having the mark of Slaneesh.

Lyquis
25-09-2006, 21:54
No they are undivided.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 22:16
Well then that's a big help. Thanks. ^_^

Still, any suggestions on whether a mounted Lord or Archaon is better?

Lyquis
25-09-2006, 22:39
Archeon abilities as a sorcerer seem like a waste in a Khorne list. You probably don't have a lot of magic and your opponent can dispel every spell he can cast. I would use a Khorne lord or 2 exalted champs.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 22:44
Well Archaon's spellcasting isn't exactly his main feature.

Lyquis
25-09-2006, 22:47
It is still calculated in his point value.

Dragon of the Pants
25-09-2006, 23:01
True, but I believe special characters are supposed to be cheaper than their equivalent abilities. He still has the potential for 10A at WS9 and S5 with no armour saves allowed, 1+Armour, 3+Ward, etc.

Lyquis
25-09-2006, 23:11
He still costs 855 points, thats a Khorne lord and a unit of chosen Knights. I am not saying never take him but just keep these things in mind.

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 00:51
All right, another question. If I take the Runesword,is it better to take the Armour of Damnation or Gaze of the Gods? I think the armour would be much better for close combat, but the 4+ war save also works against shooting and magic, so I'm thinking it would be a better choice.

Lyquis
26-09-2006, 01:08
The armor will stop about the same amount of attacks as the gaze, but gaze will give you saves vs. cannons and magic.

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 01:10
Yeah, I was sort of thinking that, although in close combat I think the armour would be better. I'm going to go with the Gaze just because I know I'll be facing at least one of each elven army.

Now, since I'm doing this without Archaon, should I still use Knights?

Lyquis
26-09-2006, 01:27
I don't think I have ever fielded a chaos army without Knights. They are fast, survivable and pack a punch.

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 03:31
Any suggestions on number? They can be quite expensive, especially when chosen.

Pravus
26-09-2006, 07:48
I normally go with 5 khorne knights and a standard - I play a lot of undead though, and the standard has saved my frenzied buns more than once when being forced to charge ethereals. For what they do, I reckon these units are a bargain.

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 12:36
Chosen or not? I'm thinking yes, since they really need the armour.

IcedCrow
26-09-2006, 13:09
I have an upcoming battle report with my chaos taking on wood elves...

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 16:06
All right, awesome, I'll be sure to give it a look.

Since I'm new the using screens, what should my horsemen units of horsemen be like? I was thinking 2 units of 10 would be able to cover well. I'm also not too familiar with fast cavalry, so hopefully I'll get the hang of moving between my opponents and my own troops.

ROCKY
26-09-2006, 16:22
spoken like a true khorne general
they don't need those kinda things....just run and swing :D

thats stereotyping! :mad: I thrust too...:D

prince_dios
26-09-2006, 16:54
Archaeon's really overkill. It doesn't if he has ten attacks, most of his units will be fleeing from his charges. XD

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 17:03
All right, so:
A)Are 2 units of 10 Marauder Horsemen good for a 3000 Point list?
B)Should I give them Full Command?Spears?Flails?

Capslock
26-09-2006, 17:42
I would use smaller units. 5-6
Fast cav are best as screeners and harassment units so you you want them to be able to squeeze into your enemies line and mess things up or be able to sacrifice them when the time comes without taking a major VP hit. Horsemen are an excellent choice because they CAN be kitted to handle just about anything but you should only equip them with what their purpose requires.
A musician, however, is always a good choice since you'll most likely be fleeing with them in order to open up your enemies flank or other weak spot.
If you're using them merely to block line of sight, give them nothing or perhaps a thrown weapon so they can harass small units once the your heavy hitters have made into combat.

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 17:45
All right, I'll do 2 units of 6. That should free up some points. I'm hinking of having an exalted in with my knights and an exalted with a unit of chosen warriors. Good idea? Bad?

der_lex
26-09-2006, 17:51
Thrown weapons are pretty useless, IMO. Your best bet is to give them a musician and some flails, so they can actually do something if they smash into a unit (well, in a combined charge with something else, that is). I personally think Warhounds make better screening units than marauder horsemen, though, since they're a lot cheaper. I omainly use Marauder horse as flankers and only use them as screens if rhe situation calls upon it.

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but consider getting a Hellcannon. Dig up the old Hellcannon tactica on this site on how to use it properly and you'll have a very nice addition to mess with a highly mobile army like Wood Elves. Just make sure to give it the daemonic gift that causes a -1 to your opponent's shooting if you don't want it to charge forward too quickly.

And ROCKY, good to see you again. You've been away for a while, haven't you? Or have you simply stopped frequenting Random Musings?

Chris_Tzeentch
26-09-2006, 22:23
Funnily enough, I am using my shiny new(ish) Khorne army against poxy wood elves in our campaign. I got a Knight army with flesh hounds, furies, and a hellcannon to boot. I'll be up against two treemen, two units of archers, some dryads, and the Eternal guard. Only they wont be very eternal once I have finished with them. I'll let you know how the game goes.

Dragon of the Pants
26-09-2006, 23:20
I'm seriously thinking about the hellcannon, but moneywise it's expensive. I gave the horsemen Spears and Throwing axes. Should I just give them flails instead? Also, if I do include a hellcannon, how would I protect my army from being eaten if it goes nuts?

der_lex
27-09-2006, 11:24
Flails are, IMO, a much better option, but that's because I don't think too highly throwing axes and their limited range.

Neknoh and I wrote a big Hellcannon tactica a whiel ago, which can still be found here:

http://www.freewebs.com/neknoh/tacticachaoticaunits.htm

The key is to put the HC as far away from the rest of your army as possible (very few units will dare to attack the thing head-on) and to keep a unit of marauder horsemen near it as your closest unit. If it does rampage (it has only done so twice in the many games I've played with it, mind), you can use the marauder horse to guide it to the enemy.

It's an expensive model, but it's a great centerpiece for any chaos army.

Lyquis
27-09-2006, 11:29
I always give mine axes and try to use them like pistoleers(which is kinda retarded). I think I will try them with flails next time(any excuse to hack up painted mins I seen to jump at:wtf: ).

ROCKY
27-09-2006, 12:41
I always give mine axes and try to use them like pistoleers(which is kinda retarded). I think I will try them with flails next time(any excuse to hack up painted mins I seen to jump at:wtf: ).

lol I know how u feel.:cool:

ROCKY
27-09-2006, 12:43
Funnily enough, I am using my shiny new(ish) Khorne army against poxy wood elves in our campaign. I got a Knight army with flesh hounds, furies, and a hellcannon to boot. I'll be up against two treemen, two units of archers, some dryads, and the Eternal guard. Only they wont be very eternal once I have finished with them. I'll let you know how the game goes.

BE careful with the dryads, and be sure to take some regular hounds as well

Dragon of the Pants
27-09-2006, 13:05
Since I'm new to using marauder horsemen, could anybody give me a couple poointers on how to use them against wood elves?

Also, I assume I should include a unit of ~16 marauders on foot?

Capslock
27-09-2006, 17:28
while units like wardancers and dryads can easily put the proverbial hurt on marauders, the horsemen would be a good choice for chasing off units of scouts or any glade riders that are giving you trouble. The WE will always (unless its a trap or the player is stupid) flee with these units but its better than being march blocked or having to send an expensive unit of knights after them. Warhounds can do the trick as well, however as they are not fast cav, they're less able to quickly recover back to formation from a failed charge.
If armed with axes or javelins they can also march block and take pot shots at the lightly armored WE units.
It may ultimately be necesary to sacrifice them in order to stop a combined on one of your expensive units (which is when you see how much ass WE skirmish units can kick).

Chris_Tzeentch
01-10-2006, 15:03
Well, I used my Khorne army against the Wood Elves, and lost. It was a breakthrough mission. I had to get 2/3rds of my army off the table. It was simplicity itself to lead my frenzied maniacs away from the table edge and into combat. My hellcannon had quite a good game, blowing away Treekin and Eternal Guard with little effort. My Khorne Knights and General butchered a Treeman, and took the Ancient Treeman to half wounds (I hate Annoyance of Nettlings!). When I got into combat, the Elves got murdered. I certainly think that the type of game made things extremely difficult for me. Not one of my units made it off the table, they were too busy hunting down and executing Wood Elves. Oh well!

Holy Crap! Manticores!
01-10-2006, 15:25
See, that's how I play. And I know I could be a lot better player if I thought things out more. I'm going to try using some screens next time I play against WE.

Any suggestions for a good multi-purpose 3000 Point list?Gen = Chaos Undivided

Don't use all Khorney stuff. The hippies will lead you around by the nose for 5 turns and then box you into CR nightmares. In fact get a few Slaaneshi units... they are ItP and won't run away at the sight of a Forest Spririt. (And won't be forced to charge them neither, like Khorne.) Note too that the Lore of Slaanesh (get a Sorc w/ MoSlaanesh) can be fun to beat the hippies at their own game.

Honorable mention might be Spawn(s) of Nurgle. Never discount the usefulness of poisoned attacks against tougher stuff in the hippie army. Best of all, you won't need a character w MoNurgle to get these guys.

Characters:
Gen: Aspiring Champ, CU
Sorc, MoSlaanesh, must have at least 1 unit of Slaanesh
As Ch, MoKhorne, must have at least 1 unit of Khorne
(just cus you like Khorne so much, the last one shouldn't be a problem)