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UltimateNagash
26-09-2006, 21:02
Is there any fluff to prove he is the clone of Horus? And if yes, could you point me to it.

Norminator
26-09-2006, 21:03
I'm pretty sure he's not. In the Horus Heresy books he's described as looking similar to Horus, but only in the sense they are from the same world. I think it's been written out now.

Wraith
26-09-2006, 21:08
He's obviously not a Primarch... but if there was some way to clone a primarch but produce the clone as it would be as per a human and *then* make it an astartes it could be possible he's a 'clone'.

Ophidicus
26-09-2006, 21:09
I don't think there'll ever be a definite answer to this, it's described as "rumoured". ONe of them things we just have to ponder, not saying it isn't the same as denying it.

Though personally I thing "clone-son" is as close as they were willing to get to "bastard-son", in the manner of Arthur & Mordred if I have my mythology right, perverted as it is by modern popular culture...

The Laughing Gods Avatar
26-09-2006, 21:21
He is not a clone; according to the Horus Heresy novels many of the Luna Wolves bare a resemblance to Horus. One of the mourneval (Horus's advisers) is even referred to as little Horus he bares such a striking resemblance to his primarch.

There may be something in the gene seed that brings out some of Horus’s physical traits, but were they really an army of primarchs they would not have lost the siege of Terra.

Abaddon is only the second person to be able to unite the forces of Chaos on a large scale, he was Horus’s first captain, his protégé, looks just like him, and even wields one of the warmasters weapons, it’s no wonder that rumors started that he was a clone.

Commander Ozae
26-09-2006, 22:25
I don't think he's Horus's clone son. GW started that as a rumor just because he was the leader of the major Chaos forces and so he's a really powerful guy. Besides, Fabius Bile was working on the Primogenetor Project to perfect cloning technology for the Imperium but it was never completed.

Hellebore
26-09-2006, 22:37
We KNOW that the Emperor's Children DID clone horus though, and the Black legion seized and destroyed them all.

So, Horus HAS been cloned, leaving the door open to whether Abbadon was the first or not...

Hellebore

Nazguire
26-09-2006, 22:47
Is there any fluff to prove he is the clone of Horus? And if yes, could you point me to it.


Nothing to prove he is. As others have said, Abaddon was a "Son of Horus", a Luna Wolf who looked particularly similar to his Primarch (widely spaced eyes, strong, straight nose, etc). Sons of Horus tended to rise through the ranks quicker than most other Luna Wolves.

Abaddon was just a Marine that looked particularly like Horus, and being the unofficial head of the Mournival, the Company Captain of the First Company, and the stuff tthat he did post-Heresy, it's only natural that conspiracy theories are abound.

Wazzahamma
27-09-2006, 04:49
Yeah, the HH novels pretty much put the clone theory to bed about Abaddon. Even as one of the "sons of Horus' he doesn't resemble his primarch as closely as some of the other 'sons' like Aximand.

Isambard
27-09-2006, 07:56
We KNOW that the Emperor's Children DID clone horus though, and the Black legion seized and destroyed them all.

So, Horus HAS been cloned, leaving the door open to whether Abbadon was the first or not...

Hellebore

But they seized the body AFTER the heresy and Abaddon had already been fighting for a couple of centuries.

All Marines are based on the genes of their Primarch. In the Lunar Wolves case they physical resembelence was often very strong (eg little Horus). In that case they are all, to some extent, 'sons' of their Primarch and partial clones, but not full copies.

susu.exp
27-09-2006, 09:29
In false gods Fabius takes the weapon Horus was wounded by. He might have started cloning with tissue still on the weapon, so there is a possibility that the first clones would have been available during the Heresy.

Lord Dante
27-09-2006, 10:45
Can u even clone a Primarch?

Primarchs are made in test tubes - Asatres are created by introducing new body parts to a gene enhanced body

wascloud
27-09-2006, 11:10
yes but abbaddon was around when horus was wounded by the anathame as well. he's not horus' clone. period.

Lord Dante
27-09-2006, 11:27
doest it say somehwere in the first HH book that Abby might have been a special Project of Horus or somthing? - maybe Horus cloned body parts from himself and had these implanted into Abby instead of the normall Zygotes method?

Commander Ozae
27-09-2006, 14:55
or it could be that abaddon is just the closest person to Horus, looks a lot like him, and acts a lot like him. Therefore, some people started throwing around the rumors that he was a clone.

Havoc
27-09-2006, 17:23
Aby is not a clone of Horus, just because he is abnormally larger than a conventional marine and bears similarities to his Primarch doesn't make him a clone.

Commander Ozae
27-09-2006, 17:37
It is the same idea as Alexander claiming descent from Achilles who is the son of a god. It increases your fame if you are related to someone as powerful and famous as Horus.

heretics bane
27-09-2006, 18:30
We KNOW that the Emperor's Children DID clone horus though, and the Black legion seized and destroyed them all.

So, Horus HAS been cloned, leaving the door open to whether Abbadon was the first or not...

Hellebore

so the clones of horus where alive as in moving etc. and how many where there?

Nazguire
28-09-2006, 01:34
so the clones of horus where alive as in moving etc. and how many where there?

They were alive and moving, and cloned by the Emperor's Children (with Fabius Bile in tow I'm lead to believe). They were all destroyed by the Black Legion, as Abaddon didn't want to stick with the past forever. I don't believe it says how many there were though.

Kromando33
28-09-2006, 03:16
I dont know about the Horus clones, but I know when Fabius stole Horus' body and tried to clone and experiment with in within his world in the EoT Abaddon led the Black Legion against Fabius and recaptured Horus' body, only to take the Talon of Horus as his own and destroy the body.

macbeth
28-09-2006, 05:31
I have always believed in this clone story. And that would explain why Abby was so eager to reclaim all the clones by the EC: he wanted to avoid competition with another clone of the Warmaster...

Nazguire
28-09-2006, 09:26
I dont know about the Horus clones, but I know when Fabius stole Horus' body and tried to clone and experiment with in within his world in the EoT Abaddon led the Black Legion against Fabius and recaptured Horus' body, only to take the Talon of Horus as his own and destroy the body.

He already had the Talon of Horus by that stage. He tore it off the armour of Horus after the Primarch had been killed by the Emperor.