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ganymed
27-09-2006, 08:48
take a look

The new hero/general is ace, the drawings of the handgunner and crossbowmen seem quite good, too;

synapse
27-09-2006, 08:52
if the roundup for the contents on the army box is right, that standard bearer and knight rearing up are plastic. That banner top is really nice... perfect for my marines :p

good stuff. Im really looking forward to empire now

Ursca
27-09-2006, 09:09
Hells yes.

That basing kit looks really good, and if the plastic state troops look anything like David Gallagher's concept art, I'll be a very happy chappie indeed.

Seems that Empire will be my next army afterall. At least they'll be a good match to my Beastmen. :)

Now if only the war altar were being re-done....

Avian
27-09-2006, 09:10
I've added the pics below.

They are, in order:

- Plastic commander set
- Army book cover art
- Crossbowman concept sketch
- Handgunner concept sketch
- Reiksmarshal Kurt Helborg (2 pics)

BlazeXI
27-09-2006, 09:28
- Army book cover art


So my suspition about the wallpaper battle shot with Empire with War Altar vs Beastmen being probable cover for Empire was wrong. Still I prefere the wallpaper to this picture...

Jedi152
27-09-2006, 09:34
It was obvious that the art in the rulebook wasn't going to be the army book art, for the reasons i mentioned in that thread.

@concepts, love them! Empire it is then!

Sir_Turalyon
27-09-2006, 09:35
They all look like they just fled from some 40k chapter... ugly :(.

truthsayer
27-09-2006, 09:42
That handgun looks more like a hochland to me. Mmm, I just hope my regular opponent likes them more than I do otherwise Im going to have to start another empire army.

Jedi152
27-09-2006, 09:46
They all look like they just fled from some 40k chapter... ugly :(.
I'm not overly keen on all the skulls. It's blatently obvious that GW are trying to align WFB with 40k to try and attract more players over.

UltimateNagash
27-09-2006, 09:47
I prefer this art: it's got more variety, and the soldiers look, less, well feminine. I don't like the men who look like women looks that some artists do, and that was one of them.
Really like Helborg's 'tache!

The boyz
27-09-2006, 09:54
The army book cover looks very nice, the concept sketches look great too. I like the look of the new plastic commander as well.

I think Empire might very well be my next army now.

Harry
27-09-2006, 09:57
I'm not overly keen on all the skulls. It's blatently obvious that GW are trying to align WFB with 40k to try and attract more players over.

Why do skulls = 40K
The humans in fantasy have skulls too!
Skulls have been part of fantasy since the very start.
Skulls have been part of the iconography of the empire since the start.
Why on earth would a Sci fi fan be attracted to fantasy by a few skulls if he has not been attracted to it in the past by the rich background, the atmospheric illustration and the wonderful minitures GW has been knocking out for the last 30 years?????

Jedi152
27-09-2006, 10:00
Skulls have been part of the iconography of the empire since the start.
Not really. 4th ed Empire didn't carry skulls around with them. Skulls are associated with 40k a lot. Most 40k characters are covered in them. Skulls and purity seals, that's all 40k is.


Why on earth would a Sci fi fan be attracted to fantasy by a few skulls if he has not been attracted to it in the past by the rich background, the atmospheric illustration and the wonderful minitures GW has been knocking out for the last 30 years?????
Most of the younger 40k players won't see that. They see skulls and think "kEwl!!LOL"

Varath- Lord Impaler
27-09-2006, 10:03
Or perhaps the gothic look inspires people? i know it does for me.

Having toiling masses fight in the shadow of a looming temple covered in spires and filled with images and pieces of martyrs is much more inspiring than having a happy empire filled with people who make bows in the shape of love hearts to hit cute goblins and orks who cant be called stupid due to political correctness.

Drakemaster
27-09-2006, 10:55
Not really. 4th ed Empire didn't carry skulls around with them.
To be fair, skulls have been part of Empire iconography since well before 4th edition. The 3rd Edition 'Warhammer Armies' book had plenty of skulls in the imagery, particularly in the illustrations of banners and shields. The release of the new Empire range by the Perry's, just before 4th edition, again had lots of skull imagery, particularly associated with wreaths and crowns, and established skull iconography on shields as a key identifier for the Reiksguard, which it has remained ever since. The 4th edition empire book continued the trend... art for the knightly orders had plenty of skulls, purity seals and the like, for example. Hell, look at the old Ludwig Schwarzhelm (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=9906020202200&orignav=301116) model... looks like plenty of skulls there to me!

Skycaptain
27-09-2006, 11:05
I hope that the general wil come with other head options

Gorbad Ironclaw
27-09-2006, 11:11
It's not so much that there are some skulls I think. It's that they seem to become more and more prominent. They works well on the Reiksguard, exactly because the other models isn't covered in them. Makes them stand out as an elite unit. If every common soldier is going to carry skulls around with him, the look and feel of the empire is going to change quite a lot.

Harry
27-09-2006, 11:19
They have just been through the storm of Chaos ...the look and feel of the Empire has changed quite a lot. (or at least it would have if it was a real place and such events had really happened!)

@Skycaptain...He does. So you will not have to put up with opponents singing "Where did you get that hat..."

@Drakemaster...Great example....I just couldn't be bothered to go and find something to prove the point.

Suicide Messiah
27-09-2006, 11:19
The heavy use of skulls isnt a 40k thing, its a GW thing. Get used to it or just file them off.

Jedi152
27-09-2006, 11:49
I don't mind skull iconography, but having real skulls in their hats and hanging from their belts is a bit much. That's all i was saying.

I still think that the whole dark/gothic thing is an attempt to bring it in line with 40k.

foehammer888
27-09-2006, 11:52
It appears that we are going to be getting plastic lord/hero sets for many of the new armies released for warhammer. Now we've seen evidence of the Orc one and now the empire one. When rumors about these originally arose, they said that a dwarf one would be the second one created. Has anyone heard anything about that? It would be nice as GW could use it to produce a set of sheildbearers that didn't belong to the king Alrick model.

Foehammer

unheilig
27-09-2006, 12:00
Why do skulls = 40K
The humans in fantasy have skulls too!
Skulls have been part of fantasy since the very start.
Skulls have been part of the iconography of the empire since the start.
Why on earth would a Sci fi fan be attracted to fantasy by a few skulls if he has not been attracted to it in the past by the rich background, the atmospheric illustration and the wonderful minitures GW has been knocking out for the last 30 years?????


because it needed to be repeated... with a box around it.

Intrepid Adventurer
27-09-2006, 12:44
I don't like the skulls either. I'll file and cut them all off when/if they cover the troops with them. I agree with Jedi152 on this point. Some skulls = acceptable, but just blatantly putting a skull on top of a commander's mount is overdone and 40k-ish, if you ask me.

I do like the concepts though. I'll keep a close eye on the Empire rumours from now on.

Grontik
27-09-2006, 13:40
Anybody have a clue as to who or what that floating ghost spellcasting person is on the upper left hand side of the Army book picture is? It doesn't look like the Kislev Ice Queen and I can't imagine which lore a mage would have to be from to look like that. Hmmmm ... special character?

Avian
27-09-2006, 13:44
imagine which lore a mage would have to be from to look like that.
Lore of the Heavens (the lightning from his fingers should be a clue :p)

The only special character Wizard is Balthazar, and he certainly does not look like that.

Alathir
27-09-2006, 13:56
I have no problems with the skulls, i just think theres a bit too many.

Suicide Messiah
27-09-2006, 14:08
Skulls on a hat is stupid beyond words i agree. A skull thats had the top sawn off and is used to carry round bolts/power or whatever though... Hmm i think its kind cool so long as its kept low key.

The Judge
27-09-2006, 14:24
I like the look of the new Empire, and the character is a great improvement. He certainly puts the Orc to shame.

NakedFisherman
27-09-2006, 14:24
I don't like the new plastic kits much. Some of the bits are fine, but a lot of it looks too much like a plastic kit. There just isn't enough detail.


I still think that the whole dark/gothic thing is an attempt to bring it in line with 40k.

...

I don't.

citizenkade
27-09-2006, 14:27
I see the Kurt Hellborg head popping up on some Dark Angels armies... I LOVE the new Empire stuff, and that's already fired me up to finish off my old army. Fantasy has bored the hell out of me for years, so it took a lot to fire me up again!

Harry
27-09-2006, 14:36
Did the skulls influence your desision to return to fantasy in any way???

TheBlueGrassGamer
27-09-2006, 14:52
Greetings,

Off topic: I've also thought that the vast display of bones, skulls, and other bits that are featured in art for the Empire is akin to supposed relics of saints. A way for the solider carrying them to bolster his courage in the face of such threat as Chaos Demons and the Undead (i.e. - Soldier clutches saint's thumb bone to his chest, "Saint Timothy, give me strength to fight in the face of these horrors. Amen.")

The desire to seek comfort in the face of the face of what we cannot explain is a universal feeling, and makes sense that it would also happen in 40K where the horrors are no less horrific. It is common enough way, to use religion, to secure bravery in the face of the unknowable.

On topc:
So, does the concept art mean that we will be getting plastic "puffy" crossbow arms? I wonder how'd they look couple with some of the older legs. I wonder if the cannon crew legs are both "puffy" and booted. (It has to do with a Mordheim warband, don't ask.)

Thanks.

Alfginnar Oakenshield
27-09-2006, 14:56
I really like the look of that Empire General/BSB. A must have!
The book cover is rather uninspiring though. Concepts on the other hand, are great.

I'm in total agreement with Harry and all the others who don't think that skulls equal 40k. I like the gothic, dark imagery and I think it has always been a part of the Empire.
And if you don't like them... Just carve them off!

AO

debugging
27-09-2006, 14:58
"Skulls on the hat?", I thougt reading through the posts. "What skulls?"

Then I went back and looked at the pictures again... What the... I really hope it will be easy to remove them, 'cause I sure as .... don't want them there. Or anywhere else. What happened to burying people? No, lets take my fathers head an put it on my hat so he might see the world. Or mayby I should hang my late friend Klaus' head in my belt and use it to carry around my crossbow bolts.

It's ok with some skull icons, paintings on shields... I could even accept a warrior priest carrying a relic from a holy man to battle. But for every soldier to carry a real skull? I'm dismayed, what ever happened to cemeteries?

TheBlueGrassGamer
27-09-2006, 15:08
Greetings,


But for every soldier to carry a real skull? I'm dismayed, what ever happened to cemeteries?

It has to be pointed out that, after death, a body tends to turn to decay fairly readily. And if you've made a pact to see a friend's body home, and don't want to have to continually deal with the body as it decays (perhaps swelling and opening the casket/box/whatever it is in on those long marches ....), you'd be well served to boil all of the fleshy parts off so you're left with a skeleton.

If you are on an extended campaign, however, soon you may not think of getting your friend back home (or at least, not back home in one piece anyway): "Say, Hendrich was always lucky....maybe if I nip his finger bone, I'll get some of his luck to rub off on me" or "Hans was always a great shot, if I keep my qurrels in his noggin they'll be guided by his spirit...."

The remains great heroes (or solider's that died bravely) and saints/warrior priests are more inclined to being boiled and turned into relics for the men. Then again, you've probably got the shady sort of people nicking bodies from the local Garden of Morr or murdering people and boiling of the fleshy parts to sell "authentic" saint's relic.....

Thanks.

Avian
27-09-2006, 15:14
So, does the concept art mean that we will be getting plastic "puffy" crossbow arms?
Considering that the old 5th edition plastic + metal regiment set had them just this way, that would not be much of a change. The 6th edition book made crossbowmen into more of a militia type of unit, but that was something new at that point.

the_yuk
27-09-2006, 15:14
What happens when a necromancer notice this, and wakes up all the bones, imagine your mates skull starts nawing at your leg, or your hat tries to eat you!

Avian
27-09-2006, 15:21
The bones are probably sanctified and thus that should not really happen. :p

Revlid
27-09-2006, 15:26
Necromanctic Spell:
Attack of the Hats............Casting Value: 8+
With a gesture and a cursed incantation, the necromancer forces the skulls on the hats of his foes to bite down on their owner's head, gnawing at their throat and chomping at their scalp.
Range: 18". Choose one model within Line of Sight of the caster, ignoring all other targeting restriction. The model takes D3 S3 hits with Killing Blow.

||-MARKO-||
27-09-2006, 15:39
whoah, this si like an avalanche of empire stuff within the space of a few days!

i just wasnt expecting it to come so fast, i though they were still being sculpted lol.... oh well, sooner = better.

on a similair note, new concepts = new minis :D

I THINK ILL LOOK FORWARDS TO THIS :skull:

marko

Jedi152
27-09-2006, 15:45
Ok, i seem to have set a lot of people off talking about 40k, so lets leave that. Skulls/grim/gothic world does not mean this is turning into 40k.

I don't mind skull iconography. I love it! I love the idea of the bodies/skeletons of martyrs being used to rally the troops, hell, i was going to get the banner from the FW Black Templars dreadnought to use as an army standard, but i just don't get the real skulls in hats/around waists.

Cue empire noblegoing into store:
"Hello, i'm a rich noble, i also happen to be a general of the army, don't you know."
"Oh, ok. You'll be wanting the latest fashions then sir?"
"Of course! Puffy sleeves, those slipper things, big feathers, you know."
"Ah yes. The latest fashion is a skull by the way."
"A ... skull?"
"Yes sir. A skull in the hat sir. Very fashionable."
"Isn't that a bit ... you know ... Chaotic? Or Necromantic?"
"Apparantly not sir!"
"Ok, i'll take one!"
"Do you have any recently deceased family members in mind?"

Ok, so it's over the top, but you know what i mean.

Faeslayer
27-09-2006, 16:30
I was just about to quit fantasy forever and sell all my stuff. Then I saw this stuff and I was like, woah, skulls!

Alfginnar Oakenshield
27-09-2006, 16:32
@Jedi152: Point taken :D

The skull in the hat is obviously over the top.

AO

Shagrat
27-09-2006, 18:45
The skulls DO look good in Orcs, but on Empire Generals?? HERESY!!!!
(unless those are Elven skulls, then that's fine)

My Orc General have a lot of skulls, as trophies from his battles, but Imperials... It also shows his power, and makes the other orcs think twice before challenging him.
I cannot imagine a Empire General cutting a head from an fallen Chaos Champion and hanging it on his belt/hat as a prized trophy...

SKULLS FOR THE THRONE OF SIGMAR???!!!???

gorenut
27-09-2006, 19:10
I have no problems with skull iconography here and there done tastefully. This is just excessive. It's like they're slapping on skulls just for the sake of doing so. Designs no longer even look coherant anymore when looking at the model as a whole.

Nagash
27-09-2006, 19:34
I'm so gonna make a Wight Lord out of that commander.

zodgrim
27-09-2006, 19:42
I love all of the pictures. The general is great. The Reiksmarshall is awesome! I can't wait. I hope it is a Christmas release.

Sir Charles
27-09-2006, 20:46
Why does everyone assume they are real skulls? They could quite easily be artifficial.

gorenut
27-09-2006, 20:53
Why does everyone assume they are real skulls? They could quite easily be artifficial.


It doesn't need to be real to look tacky and excessive. Just from memory, I spotted like 4 or 5 skulls on the Captain pics. Even the handle of the pistol has a skull. That's just way too over the top.

I really hope they'll have various parts that don't have skulls... lot of filing in the future for me.

Sir Charles
27-09-2006, 21:25
Theres one on his hat, the Reiksguard emblem, the one on the gun hilt, and one with the hammer skeleton decorating the horse. Honestly the only one to me that seems unpropable is the hat one other than that one dosen't seem excessive. You have one in the emblem for an organization, one on the horse linking it to its rider, and than one decorating what in game would be a fairly expensive piece of kit. And honestly its the placement of the hat one that bothers me more than it being a skull it would look much more relic like to have it hanging on a belt or such, but again it could be taken as a regimental mark like a badge or feather, although in that case it would have been beter served to be a bit smaller

Harry
27-09-2006, 21:25
The Ludwig model used as an example earlier has 10 skulls modelled onto it...he's been around for a number of years...its a bit late in the day to be getting upset about excessive or over the top use of skulls in the Empire don't you think?

If any one has got the book Blood on the Riek this was beatifully illustrated by the talented and gifted, nay the genius that is David Gallagher (the chap who produced the concept artwork for the Empire.)
I refer to it now because it helps illustrate that the people of the Empire, as brought to life for us by David Gallagher, wear skulls for a number of reasons.

If you turn to the section 'servants of the Empire' The Judge on armoured steed strewn with skulls has the annotation "Skulls are those judged to be found wanting"
If you turn to the section "religion in the Empire the Witch Hunter there with a brazier on his head to give him a terrifying look has the annotation "The skulls on spike add to the effect.
On the page opposite the priest with skulls around his neck has the annotation "the bones of saints and martyrs"

The trouble is some people have preconseptions of what the Empire should be and its very easy to sit there flinging **** from the cheap seats but it is not your vision of the Empire we are being given here it is David Gallaghers and the other incredibly talented artists, scultors and designers at Games workshop...so I suggest one or two folks step up and get a job there or pipe down.

For those of you who went to the trouble of finding your book....
If you turn to the section on 'Magic Users' you will find concept work for the celestial wizard on the front of the book and the bright wizard with his hair on fire.
If you turn to the Street furniture section you will see the inspiration for the Morr standard and if you turn to the Orc section near the back you will see a strangly familiar looking ork idol made of dung.

WillFightForFood
27-09-2006, 21:26
Why does everyone assume they are real skulls? They could quite easily be artifficial.

Yes, because the decorative skull manufacturing business is big in Altdorf.

Wolf Scout Ewan
27-09-2006, 21:30
OMG how the hell can that poor handgunner lift that musket? It must weigh about the same as he does!

Ursca
27-09-2006, 21:34
Blood on the Reik was absolute genius, but I'll be honest and say I counted more than 100 skulls in the book (it might have been as high as 170).
Maybe that is a little excessive. :p

Harry
27-09-2006, 21:42
Blood on the Reik was absolute genius, but I'll be honest and say I counted more than 100 skulls in the book (it might have been as high as 170).
Maybe that is a little excessive. :p

Snappy comeback...like your style...no one is saying David Gallagher doesn't need to get out more!

Did you really count the skulls?
Not since I posted?
Not Really?
Actually I don't want to know...I think it might be even more scarry if you had counted the previuosly for some reason.:confused:

DoomedDiceThrower
27-09-2006, 22:01
Wow. I'm pretty surprised about the art cover.
If I don't mix things up, that's a Dave Gallagher picture. I haven't seen a Gallagher cover for years, most were done by Kopinski or Dainton over the last few years.
On the first look, I'm not sure if I like the composition of the picture. Whatever.

gorenut
27-09-2006, 22:35
The trouble is some people have preconseptions/opinions of what the Empire should be and its very easy to sit there flinging **** from the cheap seats but it is not your vision of the Empire we are being given here it is David Gallaghers and the other incredibly talented artists, scultors and designers at Games workshop...so I suggest one or two folks step up and get a job there or pipe down.



The trouble is, ALOT of people share these preconceptions. It's also not fair to tell us to get a job there or quiet down since bottom line we are the consumers of this company. It's not like they're regular artists doing what they love for their own personal enjoyment. They're still trying to market their creations. That said, as mentioned before, I'm ok with skulls here and there done tastefully, such as emblems. In my opinion, the problem occurs when they're just scattered all over the place without too much thought and becomes a whole design in themselves instead of being part of the gestalt of the entire model. I'm still happy with most of what has been shown and I already said I'm going to do something about it, which is I'll file down and convert the parts I dislike.

Harry
27-09-2006, 23:02
'cause I sure as .... don't want them there. Or anywhere else. What happened to burying people? No, lets take my fathers head an put it on my hat so he might see the world. Or mayby I should hang my late friend Klaus' head in my belt and use it to carry around my crossbow bolts.

It's ok with some skull icons, paintings on shields... I could even accept a warrior priest carrying a relic from a holy man to battle. But for every soldier to carry a real skull? I'm dismayed, what ever happened to cemeteries?


I just don't get the real skulls in hats/around waists.

Cue empire noblegoing into store:
"Hello, i'm a rich noble, i also happen to be a general of the army, don't you know."
"Oh, ok. You'll be wanting the latest fashions then sir?"
"Of course! Puffy sleeves, those slipper things, big feathers, you know."
"Ah yes. The latest fashion is a skull by the way."
"A ... skull?"
"Yes sir. A skull in the hat sir. Very fashionable."
"Isn't that a bit ... you know ... Chaotic? Or Necromantic?"
"Apparantly not sir!"
"Ok, i'll take one!"
"Do you have any recently deceased family members in mind?"

Ok, so it's over the top, but you know what i mean.

I don't mind folks having a problem with skulls.
I don't mind folks poking fun at designers with a skull fetish.


I have no problems with skull iconography here and there done tastefully. This is just excessive. It's like they're slapping on skulls just for the sake of doing so. Designs no longer even look coherant anymore when looking at the model as a whole.

But I can only read so many times in a day....'They got it wrong', 'WTF are GW doing' 'What are the designers/sculptors/artists thinking,' 'Its rubbish' "Its crap' "its like slapping skulls on for the sake of of doing so. Designs no longer even look coherant anymore when looking at the model as a whole"

Games workshop have some of the most gifted,writers, artists sculptors,modelmakers alive on the planet today. I imagine they are doing there best. (and I imagine they are doing there best because they set high standards for themselves and not in the hope of making a few quid...these are artists not buisnessmen.)It is clearly impossible to produce a book/figure/model that everyone is going to think is fantastic but after the hours/days/weeks/months of work that go into a final product I think they desearve a little better than...I think it looks **** I will be cutting all the **** off it that makes it look so ****.

I'm not saying you not allowed to feel that way (theres lots of stuff I don't like) but why take the trouble to tell everyone.

gorenut
27-09-2006, 23:11
I don't mind folks having a problem with skulls.
I don't mind folks poking fun at designers with a skull fetish.



But I can only read so many times in a day....'They got it wrong', 'WTF are GW doing' 'What are the designers/sculptors/artists thinking,' 'Its rubbish' "Its crap' "its like slapping skulls on for the sake of of doing so. Designs no longer even look coherant anymore when looking at the model as a whole"

Games workshop have some of the most gifted,writers, artists sculptors,modelmakers alive on the planet today. I imagine they are doing there best. It is clearly impossible to produce a book/figure/model that everyone is going to think is fantastic but after the hours/days/weeks/months of work that go into a final product I think they desearve a little better than...I think it looks **** I will be cutting all the **** off it that makes it look so ****.

I'm not saying you not allowed to feel that way (theres lots of stuff I don't like) but why take the trouble to tell everyone.


Because sometimes when opinions are enough and public, things do change. Take the Dark Elf revision as an example. I'm not trying to totally just complain, but it atleast gets ideas floating around. I've gotten plenty of conversion ideas just hearing of other people's pleasure/displeasure on forums. I agree that they have some of the best talents - I model a lot of my artwork after them. I know it's impossible to please everyone, but there are certain things that enough people feel strongly for/against.

Faeslayer
27-09-2006, 23:17
I like the skulls. And I do think they're decorative, mostly. I mean, what is that on the horse's head, a toddler skeleton? On the musket, or banner?

I might buy that they're dead monkeys, but before that I'd think they were just decorative.

1) They ain't real skulls

2) They have a death god too, and he's probably a good guy to flatter before a fight. :D

3) It's the Empire!

Harry
27-09-2006, 23:24
So start a thread with a poll...'who thinks the skull iconography has become excessive' If you feel that strongly about it. Find out how many other people feel strongly about it. Write to GW with the results of your pole.
But don't slag off the work of individual artists. Its not fair.

And don't try to make out you were doing it to instigate change...you make yourself look foolish.

unheilig
27-09-2006, 23:29
So start a thread with a poll...'who thinks the skull iconography has become excessive' If you feel that strongly about it. Find out how many other people feel strongly about it. Write to GW with the results of your pole.
But don't slag off the work of individual artists. Its not fair.

And don't try to make out you were doing it to instigate change...you make yourself look foolish.

I gotta back Harry up here.

complaining about skulls and gothic imagery in warhammer models is like complaining about bare breasts at a strip club.
if you don't like it, you are in the WRONG place.

Harry
27-09-2006, 23:34
I gotta back Harry up here.

complaining about skulls and gothic imagery in warhammer models is like complaining about bare breasts at a strip club.
if you don't like it, you are in the WRONG place.

Thanks for that.
Not for the support but for the good LOL.
I was losing my sence of humour but you have reminded me why I come here.

Gorenut If you were in a strip club and you felt there were too many bare breast around would you find out if the other customers agreed with you and complain to the management Or have a go at the stripper in front of you for getting her breasts out?

Go on, Lets have a laugh about it...shake hands and forget all about it.

samw
27-09-2006, 23:40
I think I'll be bronzing them. I can see it as an icon, but not as a real dead body part.

Harry
27-09-2006, 23:42
Are you talking about the breasts there or the skulls???

samw
27-09-2006, 23:46
The skulls mister. Breasts are icky. ;)

gorenut
28-09-2006, 00:01
Thanks for that.
Not for the support but for the good LOL.
I was losing my sence of humour but you have reminded me why I come here.

Gorenut If you were in a strip club and you felt there were too many bare breast around would you find out if the other customers agreed with you and complain to the management Or have a go at the stripper in front of you for getting her breasts out?

Go on, Lets have a laugh about it...shake hands and forget all about it.

I never intended it to turn into an argument (I'm guessing you looked at it as an argument since you want to "shake hands" now). Sorry if it came out that way. Just expressing my opinions and reasonings to why I thought so. If anything, I think you took it more personal. I just got targetted because no one else felt inclined to back up their opinions (especially since others have blatantly expressed worst opinions). I just thought your argument of us not being able to express our opinions was a tad unfair.

As with the strip joint analogy, I wouldn't nor have I ever gone to a strip joint (as much as my friends tried during my 18th and 21st). I'm not a fan of teases so I would never be in that situation by making a decision ahead of time. Hence why your scenario would never happen with me. I got into GW stuff knowing its gonna cost me a lot and it has a set imagery. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to disagree and change my own personal purchases.


So start a thread with a poll...'who thinks the skull iconography has become excessive' If you feel that strongly about it. Find out how many other people feel strongly about it. Write to GW with the results of your pole.
But don't slag off the work of individual artists. Its not fair.

And don't try to make out you were doing it to instigate change...you make yourself look foolish.

I wasn't talking trash on any particular artists nor was I saying I was on some pilgrimage for change. I simply brought up that point as an example of sometimes opinions mattering. The "you make yourself look foolish" remark was an unneccessary undirect attack. Though I do understand the point you're trying to make.

In the end, there was never any bad blood nor is there any now (I think you are a valuable asset to this forum with a wealth of info). I think sometimes all too quickly people get defensive when someone disagrees with em on a forum.

PS: I know a lot of my responses may seem like I'm a dry person due to lack of smileys and the way I say things. I promise you all of it is pretty lighthearted. I apologize for going totally off-topic. Let's go back to talking about skulls and boobies.

Gen.Steiner
28-09-2006, 00:19
I can see... one skull-hat.

One.

On an officer. So what? I fail to see the OH NOES IT R ALL RUBBISH equation.

These Sneak Peeks bode well for the Empire, and my planned Wissenland army. Hurray!

Faeslayer
28-09-2006, 00:53
If there were a place that combined gothic skull decorations AND stripper boobs, I would be most interested.

If the orc general is any indication, this thing'll come with, what, three heads? Should be fine, even if you are frightened easily by skully hats! :D

therisnosaurus
28-09-2006, 02:16
look no further than your local slaanesh cult, recruiting for all your cranial-sodomizing needs...

Hellebore
28-09-2006, 03:12
My local Slanneshi cult has just gone on a snap strike, due to an unexpected shortage of skull shaped nipple warmers...... not HAPPY Jan!!


Hellebore

nagash42
28-09-2006, 04:16
ha was looking at the cover art and saw the empire general has a skull over his groin.

Think about when the necromancer animates that skull :D

UltimateNagash
28-09-2006, 06:49
What like this: "Ow, my groin!"...

Nineswords
28-09-2006, 07:03
Oh my. Yes I think we have a winner for best Warhammer Plastics.

Jedi152
28-09-2006, 07:21
@Harry: Point taken about Blood on the Reik. I was actually reading it last night solely for this thread and was shocked to see the sheer amount of skulls i'd missed before. I can expect it on an Imperial Judge, Witch Hunter and magic user. But if anything i would have thougt a priest if Morr would hate the use of skulls, as it implies dismembering skeletons that should safely be in the hands of Morr.

In fact in one item the author points out that the Imperial public are getting more and more obsessed with death, and that he thinks it's very tasteless.

Anyway, i think this thread has been de-railed enough. If anyone wants to start a new thread in Fantasy General, be my guest. For now, lets talk about plastics. I still love them this morning, except for the pistol. For some reason it looks really blocky and chunky, with excessive cogs for effect. I'm not sure if i like that.

Chiron
28-09-2006, 07:33
But if anything i would have thougt a priest if Morr would hate the use of skulls, as it implies dismembering skeletons that should safely be in the hands of Morr.


that was probably the only image that stood out as just plain wrong, the priests are meant hate necromancers for defiling the dead and yet he's standing there weighed down with skulls around his neck

madness

anyway, I like the commander bar the strange colour scheme of his sleeves and the skull on his hat :P

curious whether he comes with 2 torsos and if the other ones as good

truthsayer
28-09-2006, 08:20
that was probably the only image that stood out as just plain wrong, the priests are meant hate necromancers for defiling the dead and yet he's standing there weighed down with skulls around his neck

Maybe they should be painted gold or silver then and make them casts of skulls?


I really like the chunky stock of that pistol. Im no weapons expert but im sure the early pistols were like this. basically like a mini cannon. link to pic anyone?

Gen.Steiner
28-09-2006, 08:49
I think the pistol is based off a wheel-lock, or dog-lock.

I like the new plastics, and the concepts, and arrrrgh. Now I'm wishing I'd chosen Empire for The Watchman's To4G rather than Skaven. Oh well!

Jedi152
28-09-2006, 09:59
Checking up, yes, the pistol is a wheellock. And i'm liking it more the more i look. Like that gun - if all the handgunners have guns like that i'll be happy.

Gen.Steiner
28-09-2006, 11:06
Pikemen in grey and white. State crossbowmen. Wissenland rises!

Jedi152
28-09-2006, 11:08
I'm planning on an army from Talabheim. Or at least Talabecland somewhere.

Lots of Taalites, lots of bowmen and huntsmen.

Lab Monkey
28-09-2006, 11:55
Am I the only one who thinks the cover art is really sucky? Really less realistic, special and just less KEWL than all the previous ones!!

truthsayer
28-09-2006, 12:48
Am I the only one who thinks the cover art is really sucky? Really less realistic, special and just less KEWL than all the previous ones!!

I agree with that, it's a strange one to say the least. Im not sure if i like it or not. Whats with the wraith like wizard being in the back :eyebrows: .

Harry
28-09-2006, 13:53
I never intended it to turn into an argument (I'm guessing you looked at it as an argument since you want to "shake hands" now). Sorry if it came out that way. Just expressing my opinions and reasonings to why I thought so. If anything, I think you took it more personal.

You were not arguing. You were indeed only expressing you opinions. You did not come out that way. I didn't take it personally but I was attacking you. I was wrong and I apologise unresearvedly.


I just got targetted because no one else felt inclined to back up their opinions (especially since others have blatantly expressed worst opinions). I just thought your argument of us not being able to express our opinions was a tad unfair.

You did indeed get targetted because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time...others have indeed expressed far worse opinions...yours simply came at the wrong end of the day!
I was wrong to have a pop at you and for that I apologise unresearvedly.


As with the strip joint analogy, I wouldn't nor have I ever gone to a strip joint (as much as my friends tried during my 18th and 21st). I'm not a fan of teases so I would never be in that situation by making a decision ahead of time. Hence why your scenario would never happen with me.
O.K. Now that was a gag. What you do in your own time is your own concern:D


I wasn't talking trash on any particular artists nor was I saying I was on some pilgrimage for change. I simply brought up that point as an example of sometimes opinions mattering. The "you make yourself look foolish" remark was an unneccessary undirect attack. Though I do understand the point you're trying to make.
It was completely unneccessary and it was in fact a direct attack. I was wrong and I apologise unresearvedly.


In the end, there was never any bad blood nor is there any now
Likewise.


I think sometimes all too quickly people get defensive when someone disagrees with em on a forum.

Agreed ...although on ths occaision I was defending those who are unable to defend themselves on this forum yet whom I know to be affected sometimes by what is said.
If one person reading this exchange takes on board that message and chooses their words more carefully it has all been worth it.


Let's go back to talking about skulls and boobies.
I have never gone wrong before talking about skulls and boobies. (Well maybe a couple of times but this is not the place to retell those tales)

Please don't let the gags thrown in detract from my apology...I was out of order having a go at you.... When I should have researved all my venom for the idiot in the post above slagging off David Gallaghers first Cover art for years...clearly he has not read one word of this thread....Hey...how is the view from the cheap seats??? Why dont you 'sucky' my.....Leave it ....It ain.t wurf it.

fleshtuxedo
28-09-2006, 18:10
Am I the only one who thinks the cover art is really sucky? Really less realistic, special and just less KEWL than all the previous ones!!

I agree,
and you know whats missing? Facial hair, where are all the bearded, swarthy swashbucklers and doppelsoldner of the empire? These soldiers dont look stately, they look like clean shaven yoofs... Hear me GW? We need facial hair, these are regiments raised from the great cities of the empire, sporting schnazzy facial hair, moustache, forked beards, the works... these are the ancestors of fierce barbarian tribes... not elves

Gen.Steiner
28-09-2006, 18:18
...these are the ancestors of fierce barbarian tribes... not elves

You mean descendants.

Thazi Battleseeker
28-09-2006, 19:38
I agree,
and you know whats missing? Facial hair, where are all the bearded, swarthy swashbucklers and doppelsoldner of the empire? These soldiers dont look stately, they look like clean shaven yoofs... Hear me GW? We need facial hair, these are regiments raised from the great cities of the empire, sporting schnazzy facial hair, moustache, forked beards, the works... these are the ancestors of fierce barbarian tribes... not elves

Hah! I love it. Facial hair indeed, the dwarfs have been a great influence after all.:p

I actually love the new Reiksguard leader.

RoXxOrS
28-09-2006, 21:17
That handgun looks more like a hochland to me

nope it is aan aqubuse sorry i no i spelt it wrong empire are being based around the prussian landweher and theyre muskets 9wheellocks) had stands for accuracy

WillFightForFood
28-09-2006, 22:26
Really the iconography isn't changing much. If you look at the first page of the Empire book I count 8 skulls or skull icons on it. It's more that the models are changing to reflect a far higher skull count. Assuming they actually add that many skulls to the rank and file troopers they will be rivaling chaos in skull count (and surpassing just about everyone else).

Prince Sairion
28-09-2006, 23:03
Ofcourse thruthsayer there is always the chance that your regular opponent is thinking the same as you. . . .

Cad@veR
29-09-2006, 20:11
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

No new goddamn horses:mad: :mad: :mad:

Matt_stanley75
02-10-2006, 04:35
1. Skulls are neat.

2. The Empire is a dark place.

3. Skulls and other reminders of the inevitablity of death adorn art from at least the times of the Romans. They were known as Memento Mori (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momento_mori).

This picture (http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Mapplethorpe/Memento-mori-pendant_to_rosary-1500-DIA.jpg) is from a rosary pendant. IIRC, there have even been churches (one in Paris, one in the Balkans) that have had walls built using bones from thier crypts. Skulls on a hat are in keeping with the grim outlook of people living on the edge of death.

Falkman
02-10-2006, 08:20
I was out of order having a go at you.... When I should have researved all my venom for the idiot in the post above slagging off David Gallaghers first Cover art for years...clearly he has not read one word of this thread....Hey...how is the view from the cheap seats??? Why dont you 'sucky' my.....Leave it ....It ain.t wurf it.

Oh for ****s sake!
Everyone is entitled their opinion, and just because this is his first cover in many years doesn't mean he should be sanctified for it.
I don't particularly like it either, it doesn't have that "Oomphf" that some other cover arts have.
Granted, neither did the old Empire cover.

Just because you think the guy is talented and maybe your friend, doesn't mean people can't critisise the artwork.

Harry
02-10-2006, 12:43
Am I the only one who thinks the cover art is really sucky? Really less realistic, special and just less KEWL than all the previous ones!!


I agree,
and you know whats missing? Facial hair, where are all the bearded, swarthy swashbucklers and doppelsoldner of the empire? These soldiers dont look stately, they look like clean shaven yoofs... Hear me GW? We need facial hair, these are regiments raised from the great cities of the empire, sporting schnazzy facial hair, moustache, forked beards, the works... these are the ancestors of fierce barbarian tribes... not elves


Oh for ****s sake!
Everyone is entitled their opinion, and just because this is his first cover in many years doesn't mean he should be sanctified for it.
I don't particularly like it either, it doesn't have that "Oomphf" that some other cover arts have.
Granted, neither did the old Empire cover.

Just because you think the guy is talented and maybe your friend, doesn't mean people can't critisise the artwork.

Can anyone spot the difference between the first two quotes?
They both say they don't like the work.
One says they think its ****
The other explains in a reasoned, intellligent, and critical way why it is why they don't like it.
Even your own assessment "it does not have the "oomphf" that some other covers have explains why you are disappointed.

I have no problem with people expressing opinions, or indeed of people critisising the work there are just ways of doing it. Other than just shouting "get off...your ****" from the 'cheap seats at the rear of the auditorium.

By the way that was just a 'gag' at the end of the post you quoted..and not said with any real 'venom' I was using it to try and illustrate what my problem ....explained above...was. Perhaps I should have taken the time to explain myself better rather than hope that folks 'got it'. Irony does not type well!

I do think he is incredibly talented. However, he is not my friend...In fact I have only met him on one occaision, briefly. I simply think these guys deserve better than they receive week in, week out on this forum. I think people can offer critisism without being rude. I think people should choose their words more carefully. I think we should do as we would be done by.

I have no idea what you do for a living but I expect when you offer the final results of you labour to be appraised you might hope for something more constructive that 'it sucks,its ****' etc. Just a thought.

Anyway...lets draw a line undeath this...I think people know where I stand...I guess it is up to each individual member to decide how they wish to come accross on this forum.

Falkman
02-10-2006, 12:47
I had a suspicion that you weren't 100% serious, but as you say, irony does not transfer well over forums, be sure to use those smileys ;)
I can understand that you get a little angry that he just says it's sucky.

Black Behemoth
02-10-2006, 17:36
I personally love the gothic feel, especially on the general. Makes them have a different mood other than the classical Medieval army feel.

Gen.Steiner
02-10-2006, 20:13
Well, renaissance Holy Roman Empire really. I like the fact that you can use GW Empire troops as Landsknechts, it's very versatile. The skulls don't really detract from that.

The Ape
03-10-2006, 11:22
*said in a semi-posh/semi-camp fashion designer-esque*

"Darlings, dont you know skulls are the new black this winter? Everyone is wearing them!"

Fred_Scuttle
03-10-2006, 13:20
Ok - back to the models.........

Does anyone know if the Crossbow and Handgunners will be a multi option plastic kit? Metal?

Thanks

gorenut
03-10-2006, 14:32
Ok - back to the models.........

Does anyone know if the Crossbow and Handgunners will be a multi option plastic kit? Metal?

Thanks

I think if you either read through this thread or another (maybe perhaps even rumour roundup), it notes that they will be a multi-part plastic kit. Crossbows become state troops so they will be contained in the same box as Handgunners. Melee state troops will be another box.

Septicus
08-10-2006, 05:10
I agree with that, it's a strange one to say the least. Im not sure if i like it or not. Whats with the wraith like wizard being in the back :eyebrows: .

The cover art rocks and is a great reflection of what I have always thought the empire to be. I love it and I hope to see more art that is similar.:cool:

Kamarathin
09-10-2006, 16:10
The cover art is lacking IMHO...just not my artistic preference. The new models and concepts are looking fairly good. I'm hoping the new models come out ok.

Kriegsherr
10-10-2006, 14:46
warhammer always has been one of the more gothic fantasy worlds around. True, GW did keep it under more control than in 40k, were the designers could run wild with their imagination not beeing held back by a manager saying "eeeerh.... I want more lord of the rings look and feel in this game".

Thats why 40k features a really unique, dark and great Background while the fantasy background still is to much a lotr ripoff.

So in my eyes, skullz for the win. there are still space for more skulls on this imperial soldiers ;)
But seriously, its always a happy event when a race or army gets darker and more sinister looking. If the "more gothic"-tendacy is symptomatic for the 7th ed minis as it was for the 6th ed army and rulebook images, then maybe I even might start fantasy again... imagine how cool the VCs might look if they actually get the gothic treatment and stop looking like some bad cartoon vampires. Wooohooo.... vampires in black, gothic armours on black steeds in gothic barding, acompnied by dark armoured wights (that hopefully have no unarmoured skull to be seen anymore (and I hope the vampire also isn't showing his fangs anymore)).... now cool, new, armoured skeletons and my VC would be back from the grave.

In the mean time I might pickup some of these imperials and make some decent vampire hunters out of them. Paint them black, add some skulls and trophies... and of course pitchforks and torches :)

Capitán Sánchez
10-10-2006, 15:15
Interesting... :eyebrows:

Sneek Peeks still show concept art while during last GD we have been shown the contents of the Army box. :wtf:

Ridiculous? :cheese:

Fred_Scuttle, I'd love to see full metal models but I'm afraid they are going to be mostly plastics. Kurt Hellborg seems to be metal but even the horse looks plastic too.

I personally HATE plastics with passion.


Thank you