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gunhed
27-06-2005, 19:47
When the Imperium try for Exterminatus on a rebel/chaos planet or a planet inhabited by Xenos, they sometimes use Virus Bombs to wipe out all life but keep the planet and its infrastructure intact.

No problem against humans and Xenos known to the Imperium, but does anyone suppose there's ever been a case where the Virus Bombs have been used on a new species of Xenos who just so happen to be occupying a prime piece of real estate and the worst it's done is bring them down with a bad case of the sniffles? :D

x-esiv-4c
27-06-2005, 19:49
If that was the case then the Imperium would probably say...well to hell with the infrastructre, "Launch Cyclonic Torpedoes!".

You make an interesting point though, are their spieces that are totally immune to various Imperial made viral strains?

Puffin Magician
27-06-2005, 20:05
Even virii as simple as the common cold repeatedly change to escape detection/destruction by our immune system; with all the techno-wizardry of the 41st Millennium there's probably a few biotechnologies and/or hidden races with some immunities to more subtle biochemical weapons [side note: how long will it take for the Tyranids to evolve beyond the vulnerability of Hellfire Shells?] although I doubt they could escape the fury of a planet-wide scouring, especially when it's specifically designed to kill everything organic. It may not even be a viral strain but a chemical reaction that burns/corrodes/destroys/changes organic material so that species dissolve/melt/turn inside out/explode, etc. It'd be hard to evolve your way out of that.

There's always Neutron weapons, which is similar to Virus bombs in that it leaves structures behind, but unlike chemical warfare this is intensely lethal radiation... tough luck having a natural defense against that; maybe a species that likes red wine? :p

And yes, if the Virus Bombs don't work, there's always redirected comets, Grey Knights, Retribution Battleships, etc.

x-esiv-4c
27-06-2005, 20:08
There's always Neutron weapons, which is similar to Virus bombs in that it leaves structures behind, but unlike chemical warfare this is intensely lethal radiation... tough luck having a natural defense against that; maybe a species that likes red wine? :p.

nid space craft survive the harsh radiation of space.

gunhed
27-06-2005, 20:14
There's always Neutron weapons, which is similar to Virus bombs in that it leaves structures behind, but unlike chemical warfare this is intensely lethal radiation...

So what's the half-life on Neutron Radiation then?

I know it's not as long as the regular nuclear fallout from the everyday plutonium based weapons, but how long would the planet be irradiated for?

x-esiv-4c
27-06-2005, 20:25
Approx 13 years I think. However Neutron damage is highly localized and during construction was designed as an anti-tank weapon.

Puffin Magician
27-06-2005, 20:53
nid space craft survive...
...although they spend most of their time in the void... which not only has no planets, stars, and ships, but no radiation either; ziltch. And when they're not drifting through absolute nothingness, they're always near habited planets; which means a Magnetic Field [safe zone!]. Interstellar radiation is also different than a directed radioactive attack. Eg: Astronauts can survive in high orbit and the trip to the Moon and back, but I doubt you'd recruit NASA's spacesuits as defences against a fission/fusion/neutron explosion. Meltaguns are an example of a directed radioactive attack [and not really anyone has a defence against that!]


I know it's not as long as the regular nuclear fallout from the everyday plutonium based weapons, but how long would the planet be irradiated for?
As Xesiv4c said, It's quite short for a radiation weapon. Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb (Wikipedia);
A neutron bomb requires considerable amounts of tritium, which has a relatively short half-life (12.32 years).


...was designed as an anti-tank weapon.
That's correct, because the armour plate did nothing to stop the neutrons [the M1A1's uranium depleted armour would actually worsen the particle effects by becoming radioactive itself!]. Tank crews that weren't killed instantly would die within days [if not a matter of hours] due to intense radiation poisoning.

Neutrons are scary, scary particles.

x-esiv-4c
27-06-2005, 20:55
A neutron and a proton walk into a bar, the neutron asks for a beer and the bartender pours him one, the neutron asks: "How much do I owe you?" The bartender replies: "No Charge"

HAHAHAHHAHAHAH........sorry.

Spectre
28-06-2005, 01:46
So what's the half-life on Neutron Radiation then?

Neutron radiation, and any radiation for that matter, does not have a half life. Isotopes do.

Most of the radiation produced by nuclear decay will be neutron emissions, gamma rays and alpha and beta particle emissions (helium nucli and electrons respectively)
An isotope such as Uranium 238 can, for example, emit an alpha particle, (ie, alpha radiation) thus losing two protons and two neutrons in the process and dropping down to an atomic mass of 234 – it becomes thorium. Thorium can then emit a beta particle – the actual process that occurs is the conversion of a neutron into a proton plus an electron – the end result is the same molecular mass, but one more proton, resulting in an isotope of another element; Protactinium 234.

The former of these two has a half life of around 4.6 billion years – meaning, uranium 238 will go on emitting alpha particles quite happily for billions of years before its quantity is reduced by half.
Thorium 234 will only emit beta radiation for 24 days before half of it has been converted to protactinium 234, which has a half life of only a minute.
Through-out all of this, there will still be more Uranium 238, still emitting alpha radiation. After 9.2 billion years, one quarter the original amount will remain, still radiating beta energy. 18.2 billion years from the start point, one sixteenth will remain, also still emitting radiation, but at only one sixteenth the strength of the original sample.

http://www.ccnr.org/decay_U238.html

Any way, nuclear physics aside, neutron radiation is rather special – elements tend not to spontaneously emit neutrons in any great number, especially high energy neutrons – unless they are undergoing nuclear fission.

When a nuclear isotope is at ‘critical mass’ emission of neutrons is enough to create a cascade of further neutron emissions in the surrounding atoms – this is the chain reaction (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/u235chn.html) that makes a nuclear bomb go ka-boom. Uranium 235 captures a neutron, becomes uranium 236. Uranium 236 is highly unstable, so fissions into Barium and krypton gas, releasing three neutrons and gamma radiation – these two neutrons can be captured by surrounding uranium atoms, and so on.

Some fission reactions release a lot of excess neutrons – and such weapons can be highly attractive from a military point of view. Uranium fission releases a lot of gamma rays, which are highly destructive to most matter, igniting flammable materials hundreds of kilometres away from ground zero in the case of megaton yield devices, and generally annihilating everything bar dense rock and metal not blown apart by the blast shockwave nearer to ground zero.

Neutron radiation however, destroys biological tissues easily, but without the long range cooking that you get with gamma rays. Because the neutrons are only produced at the moment of fission, the reaction does not continue and the neutrons do no linger.
The result is, for a modest size blast area, you can get a much wider area of very brief radiation that is only damaging to living cells – perfect for wiping out an enemy and leaving infra structure intact.

There will be no significant neutron radiation left seconds after the blast – only the risk of fallout from fission products – and if you chose the right kind of device, these can be minimised.

......

Heisenburg is driving down the road and a cop pulls him over;
"Excuse me sir, do you know how fast you were going?"
Asks the officer.
"No..." Replies Heisenburg
"...But I know exactly where I am!"

inquisitorautry
28-06-2005, 04:26
You make an interesting point though, are their spieces that are totally immune to various Imperial made viral strains?

I see virus bombs as not actually using one viral strain, but actually having multiple strains in one 'dose.' That way if the species in question just happens to be immune to one, or more, of the viral strains then the others destroy the xenos scum.

Khaine's Messenger
28-06-2005, 05:47
I didn't think viral bombs, which are usually mentioned in the exterminatus sense, were "real estate" weapons, but rather rendered worlds wholly uninhabitable?

Given that the virus-cocktails in question are said to render entire planets lifeless except for the most robust extremophiles, I think that they are designed broadly enough to be incredibly "virulent," with the ability to jump not only species but entire kingdoms and evolutionary histories. And that's just to have a good effect on one planet...jumping to an entirely different world would be incredibly difficult, albeit the process could be assisted by some small measure of sampling and reprocessing, not to mention if the whole process is expedited by complimentary things like self-replicating proteins (prions) and tailored extremophiles whose only function is to excrete certain hostile compounds in order to hasten the process of what can only be described as the open-air consumption and digestion of an entire world....and all of this is supposed to happen relatively fast. It makes just as much sense as Tyranid consumption pools and their seas of digestive juices. :)

Of course, it really is too much to hope for that the title "viral bomb" is a misnomer and/or dodges the issue of what's really packed into those elegant beasties.

Brusilov
28-06-2005, 06:36
IIRC viral bombing in Exterminatus does not have so much to do with making people sick. Its objective is to incinerate the planet by causing the self-combustion of the entire biomass. The entire planet catch fire as everything on its surface burns including the atmosphere.

IMO Exterminatus is a combination of viral bombing, cyclotronic (or cyclonic) warheads, mass drivers, fusion warheads...

athamas
28-06-2005, 09:32
viral bombing makes all biomatter break down into methane and other volotile componants, once it reaces a critical point a fire storm starts, burning everything..!


also i thought a neutron had a half life measured in hours.. ie it does not last long out of the nucleous.... before it decause to a proton + rest!

Lord Lucifer
28-06-2005, 11:12
Viral bombing reduced beautiful Tallarn to a desolate wasteland.
The Tallarn Desert Raiders survived only because they shut themselves off in massive underground bunkers for a couple of generations


It's quite a hazard to any and all living matter

Minister
28-06-2005, 11:26
It seems, from what was presented in the old IG Codex, that the Talarn strain was a diferent one from the modern Worldkiller, in that it merley killed everything (right down to the bacteria, so there was nothing to facilitate decay), but did not create the modern version's fireball effect.

x-esiv-4c
28-06-2005, 12:59
Why was Tallern bombed?

boogle
28-06-2005, 13:29
it was done by Chaos, who knows why (maybe HH3 will tell)

Lord Lucifer
28-06-2005, 14:00
So it was.
The Iron Warriors specifically
I love old White Dwarfs :D

x-esiv-4c
28-06-2005, 14:01
What was the Iron warriors reason for bombing the life out of Tallarn? ( And don't say "Because they are chaos")

charlie_c67
28-06-2005, 14:15
To remove all surface cover from the planet and cause dissent perhaps? Wasn't it a lush verdant paradise IIRC?

x-esiv-4c
28-06-2005, 14:16
Were they planning to claim the planet as their own or just....kill everything off? Usually the IW are more methodical in their approaches, I like to think that they are one of the less chaotic of the traitor forces.

Sojourner
28-06-2005, 14:17
The firestorm thing isn't a necessity. It happens sometimes as a side effect but there's nothing to suggest that every virus strain does this. Suggesting that a virus would break down everything is nonsense anyway; viruses can only reproduce in living, functioning cells, generally in a living body. Breaking down everything isn't part of a virus' typical growth paradigm.

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
28-06-2005, 14:26
When the Imperium try for Exterminatus on a rebel/chaos planet or a planet inhabited by Xenos, they sometimes use Virus Bombs to wipe out all life but keep the planet and its infrastructure intact.

No problem against humans and Xenos known to the Imperium, but does anyone suppose there's ever been a case where the Virus Bombs have been used on a new species of Xenos who just so happen to be occupying a prime piece of real estate and the worst it's done is bring them down with a bad case of the sniffles? :D

If I remember correctly in Battlefleet Gothic Armada it mentions an Imperial force attacking Tyranids with virus weapons only to have them attack the Imperials with the same weapons which they has assimilated.

Lord Lucifer
28-06-2005, 17:14
What was the Iron warriors reason for bombing the life out of Tallarn? ( And don't say "Because they are chaos")

My guess would be that they knew about the big black artefact hidden far beneath the soil.
After they were fought off by the Tallarn Guard, the Tallarn unwittingly excavated it and, after brushing off the intervention of the Eldar that knew the boneheaded move the Imperium was making, unleashed a daemonic host on their world so they could fight a second major campaign against Chaos on the worthless, lifeless soil of their sandpit of a planet


Perhaps they should've watched 2001: A Space Oddysey

boogle
28-06-2005, 17:19
The IW didn't fight a second major campaign on Tallarn

Brusilov
28-06-2005, 19:49
As to why the IW bombed Tallarn I think it had to do with denying the Imperium the use for a strategic world. And I don't think the IW used Exterminatus. If they did, no one would have survived on the surface of Tallarn because the virus work in a few hours. The IW massively bombed the planet, probably to soften it up before invasion.
Wasn't Tallarn the site of the greatest tank battles of all time at that point?

Anvils Hammer
28-06-2005, 20:21
As to why the IW bombed Tallarn I think it had to do with denying the Imperium the use for a strategic world. And I don't think the IW used Exterminatus. If they did, no one would have survived on the surface of Tallarn because the virus work in a few hours. The IW massively bombed the planet, probably to soften it up before invasion.
Wasn't Tallarn the site of the greatest tank battles of all time at that point?

yeah it was, because the surface was so polluted after the virus bombing, tanks were the only units that could fight on the surface.
they fought with literally millions of tanks on both sides

Brusilov
28-06-2005, 21:59
Then it was definitely not an Exterminatus, either that or it failed or was interrupted before the process was completed (and I don't think you can stop a chain reaction of that magnitude), otherwise Tallarn would have been a lifeless ball of rock without even traces of atmosphere...

Minister
29-06-2005, 00:12
It was never claimed that it was, only that the world was virus bombed.

Actually, I think it to be about time for my first Fluff Drop on Warseer.


+++Tallarn+++
The world of Tallarn was once a fertile planet bathed in the gentle orange light of its twin suns. Oceans, plains and lush jungles covered its surface, and its people prospered. The world was a virtual paradise. All of this ended during the Horus Heresy.
CHAOS ATTACK!
In a devastating surprise attack, the Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines struck the planet. Thousands of virus bombs rained down on Tallarn and the people ran to their enviro-shelters, deep beneath the surface. As they hid, safe from the devastating bio-infestation, the deadly coils of DNA mutated as they were programmed to do. Animals, plants, even insects died as the virus did its work, destroying the planet's ecosystem and leaving an empty shell devoid of life.
After seven weeks of isolation the virus had run its course and the remaining people of Tallarn emerged upon the surface. They found a world covered with the acrid slime of plants and corpses not yet decayed - for the world was completely sterile, without even bacteria to aid the decomposition of its dead. The stench was strong, and more than one person died from it.
The Iron Warriors sent their task-force to repossess the world for the Dark Gods of Chaos. From underground bunkers the Tallarn forces emerged to do battle with the invaders. Soon, reinforcements from both sides arrived, rival space fleets bringing vast armies to fight over the worthless remnants of the dead planet.
The Battle of Tallarn raged for many months and was the largest armoured conflict of the Horus Heresy. Outbreaks of viral infection from rogue DNA residue made it almost impossible for infantry to operate outside their protective shelters. The battle was finally decided by armies of tanks. When the fighting ended the empty, putrid wastes of Tallarn were littered with the wreckage of more than a million shattered vehicles.
A HOLLOW VICTORY
Chaos was driven from Tallarn at great cost, yet for all the millions that died there seemed little gained from the fight. The planet was destroyed and rendered useless for large scale habitation, industry or agriculture. The armies of the Imperium might well have given up Tallarn had their commanders realized the extent of the devastation, but once the armies were in motion there was no going back.
At the time the Chaos attack made little sense. It seemed insane that even the fickle Gods of Chaos should expend such energy fighting over a devastated world of no particular strategic significance. But in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy there were few left to ponder such questions. Amongst the evils of the time it was just another demonstration of the random destruction of Chaos.
TALLARN SURVIVES
Within a thousand years of the Horus Heresy Tallarn evolved into a very different world from the prosperous planet of former times. Deserts of sulphurous sand stretched from pole to pole and all water disappeared except for a thin residue in the atmosphere. No vegetation remained on the surface exposed to the blistering, wind-blown sands. All that grew was the carefully husbanded crops of the Tallarn themselves, sheltered in their protective horticultural domes.
The surviving Tallarn now lived in domed towns or in natural caverns hollowed out in the planet's rock. Fierce winds drove the Tallarn into their shelters, corrosive sulphur storms made all travel risky, and eventually a system of tunnels was built to facilitate travel beneath the surface.
Above their settlements the Tallarn built vapour traps to catch water from the thin atmosphere. These tall towers still stand above their domes to this day, and all the water they use is caught by these cunning devices and channelled into subterranean holding tanks.

Minister
29-06-2005, 00:15
A SECRET UNCOVERED
During the construction of an arterial tunnel, Tallarn miners struck an outcrop of hard black rock. They were unable to break through this strange substance which was quite unlike any other they had encountered. After some days they decided to divert their tunnel to go around it. As they did so they discovered something very strange. At first the black wall seemed like a natural formation, but soon they realized they had uncovered a deliberate construction.
The initial excavations revealed a huge wall of strange black rock carved over its entire surface with weird entwined figures. The figures were human sized yet not entirely human, possessing a grace and beauty which rendered their grotesquely inscribed cavorting all the more perverse. Giant earth movers were brought in to dig out the layer of sulphur sand in which the wall was buried, and bit by bit it was slowly and painstakingly exposed to the daylight.
The Tallarn soon discovered the wall was not straight but curved, in fact part of a huge circle. Carefully their most skilled technicians worked to uncover the entire thing, a huge ring-shaped mound almost half a mile across.
THE DANGER AWAKES
It was not until the whole circle was exposed that the disaster happened. With a blast of power the circle screamed and writhed, its inert form turned suddenly to moaning flesh. Where before there had been carvings now there were the creatures themselves, Eldar creatures, yet twisted with an uncanny evil, locked together by some sorcerous bond into a sickening embrace of depraved passion.
Within the circle itself, blackness boiled and stars wheeled - stars that belonged in another part of the galaxy altogether.
THE DARK LIBRARY
In the Dark Library of the Eldar a custodian shivered as he felt an unaccustomed surge of power. Adrift from time and space his mind searched the endless, strands of probabilities and found the thread t6t led to Tallarn. After so long it had been discovered: the Cursus of Alganar, legend of evil from before the Fall, vortex of unimaginable power, one of the three mythical Gateways of the Gods.
His mind shifted into synchronicity with -the Farseers of his race, tracing the paths that linked his mind to the Craftworlds of the Eldar. When that knowledge touched the Farseers the Avatars of Khaine would wake. And Khaine would recognise the work of his ancient destroyer Slaanesh - Bane of the Eldar, Prince of the Chaos Gods.
ELDAR ATTACK
The Eldar struck from the skies without warning or explanation. To the Tallarn it was an unwarranted act of aggression. Little could they imagine that the fate of the entire Eldar race was bound up with their strange discovery. To the Eldar there was no time for explanation or discussion. They couldn't know whether the Tallarn were in league with Chaos or whether the fierce desert people were unwitting pawns in the Dark Gods' game. As far as they were concerned the only option was to attack, to destroy the Cursus if they could before it was too late.
The Tallarn fought back with characteristic ferocity. Years of living upon the burning sulphur deserts had honed them into resilient fighters. To the Eldar the deserts were an unknown quantity. Even the hardy Aspect Warriors died under the heat of the sun, whilst the Eldar Guardians fen to the lightning raids of the human fighters. But the Eldar did not give up. They could not afford to abandon their attack. The survival of the galaxy depended on it.
THE DARK GODS AWAKE
But it was already too late. The gateway that was the Cursus grew in power by the minute. Its screams and wails filled the desert as the dark light brightened and fluxed within its core. Lights and stars swirled and clashed, fountains of spinning incandescence spat into the night sky. The laughter of gods rebounded across the sulphur dunes and Eldar and humans alike shuddered in terror.
From the Cursus poured the minions of Chaos. There were things indescribable to men. Things that awakened primal terrors in Eldar hearts - horrors of slime and flame that cackled and bounded into battle, transparent bodies of pure energy dividing and reuniting in a cascade of colours, vile fleshy things that pulsed with inner power and sucked at the air with poisonous lips. Long-legged abominations carried slender and elegant creatures upon their backs, beautiful and yet sickening to look upon. It was as if all the 4aemons of hell had fallen upon Tallarn.
THE BATTLE FOR THE CURSUS
The human commander called a truce and hurried to the Eldar lines where the alien Seers sat waiting. Knowledge had finally opened their eyes. The runestones lay cast upon the desert floor. Hope in union was predicted. Division would lead to damnation, darkness and death. With their fates so clearly predicted, the Eldar and Tallarn joined forces.
The two races fell back before the Chaos onslaught. Many were caught and destroyed in the early confusion, but the Chaos advance was slowed by the merciless hit and run tactics of the desert raiders. Humans led Eldar jet-bike riders into the attack, and soon the Tallarn and Eldar were able to regroup.
As the daemon hordes advanced beyond the Cursus their power waned, as if they were dependent upon its proximity for their power. And so it was, for the tendrils of Chaos though long are very tenuous, and only blood-letting and victory can sustain the link between the Dark Gods and their minions.
CHAOS DEFEATED
With skill and cunning the Tallarn drew out the Chaos battle lines. Choosing their targets carefully the Tallarn launched one attack after another, always retreating before the Chaos hordes could turn to meet their fire. It was a tactic calculated to drain the power of the horde, and it worked better than even the wily sons of the sulphur desert could have hoped.
The Eldar Seers saw the runes change, saw the opportunity develop. The daemons were fading fast, their glittering bodies growing ever more transparent, their cries ever weaker Now was the time to hit them hard.
With a furious charge the Eldar and Tallarn threw their remaining strength against the gibbering horde. It was a last effort that would result in absolute victory or utter defeat. The Chaos hordes shuddered and the bodies of the daemons seemed to fade and dull. The crackle of energy died and the spark of life vaporised into the oily air.
Many lay dead, human and Eldar, gored by monstrous claws, crushed by the sensual caress of a poisoned tongue, or torn apart by razor sharp teeth. Many Eldar waystones were collected from the field, and many Tallarn taken back to their domes to surrender the water from their bodies to the hydrotanks. But it was victory nonetheless.
THE CURSUS
Once the Eldar had departed in peace, and the people of both races had exchanged their promises of friendship, the Tallarn returned to the Cursus. They found the black stone cold and lifeless once more, just as it was when they had first uncovered it. However, they knew now that the stone was not dead but merely sleeping, awaiting its time again, waiting for the call of its evil masters.
The Tallarn buried the Cursus beneath the sulphur sands once more and placed within its circle the mysterious devices that the Eldar had given them for that purpose. Then they sealed the surface with plascrete and turned their backs upon it.

Spectre
29-06-2005, 02:51
also i thought a neutron had a half life measured in hours.. ie it does not last long out of the nucleous.... before it decause to a proton + rest!

Ah, yes, in that respect, free neutrons have a half life of a little over 10 minutes - but when speaking of Neutron radiation, the half life of the individual neutrons isn't much of a muchness.

Given that the reaction that produces the neutrons is so brief, the neutrons will spread out like the skin of an expanding sphere, and you will only encounter them at or just behind the wave-front. The strength of the neutron radiation at the wave front will get ever weaker as its surface area expands, and the number of energetic neutrons per unit area shrinks.

Some atomic nuclei will capture a few of the neutrons, but most will simply continue ever outwards, decay, and then be seen as their decay products, also expanding ever outwards.

If you had a controlled neutron release, as is seen in a nuclear reactor with neutron absorbing control rods, then there would be an area under constant bombardment from neutron radiation - but it would be the half life of the parent isotope giving off the neutrons that would be the important thing.

Brusilov
29-06-2005, 06:37
An interesting question : why would Tallarn have shelters against virus bombing or anything else if their world was a paradise? Unless their government was totally paranoid, there was no need for such things.
On top of that the evacuation of millions of people does not appear so easily, it's a logistic nightmare that would take days, even weeks. In the mean time the death toll would be catastrophic.

Just some thoughts...

inquisitorautry
30-06-2005, 04:43
Also evacuation could lead to problems of contaimination as someone in a refuge ship could be a carrier of one of the viral strains.

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 04:51
Brusilov makes a good point. If it was a paradise why did they build such bunkers? It might have just been a precautionary method I suppose. What is interesting is that the indigineous Tallarn learned how to survive in a barren desert wasteland when previously the planet was a lush paradise.

Brusilov
30-06-2005, 06:15
x-esiv-4c you're making another good point, odd to have people leaving on a paradise world turn into Fremen/Touaregs instantly... :rolleyes:

But you could argue that people simply died in their millions (as mentioned) while making their way to shelters built just in a case by some farseeing Imperial Commander.
The same could be said of the hability of people to survive on a desert world, after all the Imperium does not care after millions of death.

Minister
30-06-2005, 12:39
It is also pertinent that is was a paradise world during the greatest war ever seen by humanity, and that the Governor might well have thought to try to protect against attak. Either way, I would expect well above 90% fatality rate amongst the population.

charlie_c67
30-06-2005, 12:43
I'd have thought the fact it was a paradise would be a very good reason behind the bunkers as every ork and his squig would've wanted it.

gunhed
30-06-2005, 13:35
But you can't protect a world by living in a bunker, and where did the Tallarns get their millions of tanks from anyway?

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 13:48
Hmmm, they would have needed to establish quite an infrastructure to be able to mass produce those tanks. Maybe something like this has happened before on Tallarn? It would require massive logistic steps to build such a massive network of bunkers and there had to have been a necessity for it prior to the attack.

Brusilov
30-06-2005, 17:33
Amusing how you can pick apart an otherwise good story and see gaping holes in it when you think about it for five seconds :eyebrows:
The counter-argument could be that Tallarn had an industry (although clean one) running that was specialised in tank production (not too surprising with the high demand for the Great Crusade).
Virus bombing does not destroy tanks, it kills the crew. You get all the survivors to man the tanks and off to fight the Iron Warriors you go.

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 19:45
Well, maybe they had a smaller bunker system then what we envision. Does anyone know how many Tallarn's perished in the bombing? Was it like 50% of the population ( for example )

Minister
01-07-2005, 00:19
The majority of the armour involved was not local. The Imperium shipped in every armoured unit it could lay hand on in an attempt to destroy the Chaos forces.

I have the feeling that an Imperial general with a liking for armour was responsible for the initial engagment, then once the Imperium was seen to be comitted his superiors saw no option other than to escelate the forces involved. Chaos then re-enforced, not wishing to loose the artefact, which convinced the Imperium that there must be something worth fighting for down there, and so-on.