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High Marshal Trenth
28-09-2006, 14:20
Ive heard this term used many times before but I have no idea what they are. Can anyone fill me in on these things? Thanks.

Zzarchov
28-09-2006, 14:32
Standard Template Constructs:

Designs for inventions of the dark ages of technology. They were designed to be all the simple tools a colonist would need (including weapons) to be built with local materials. Ie.) The Leman Russ came from an STC, so did the Lasgun, the Chimera, the Land Raider and Land Speeder, Imperial cooking stoves and a Bulldozer, all of it.

There is also talk about them being hooked into automated factories where you could just tell them what you wanted and what you had, and they would design one. Fluff bounces around alot.

High Marshal Trenth
28-09-2006, 14:36
Wait, they can create things from just plain old materials? So you could say, "I want an uber tank of super firepower/armor" and it would create the best one from the stuff it had?

Atherakhia
28-09-2006, 14:37
STC stands for Standard Template Construction system.

most of the standard equipment in the Space Marine armoury comes from a Standard Template. The basics are this: the ST forms the template for the construct, and is fed into a machine. The machine then builds it. There are, however, one or two problems. The Adeptus Mechanicus can't actually read any data on ST's (as they can't decipher it) due to the missing STC front end (or "Iron Men").

What is referred to as an STC nowadays (i.e. Standard Template Construct) is something that was once a ST, but is now mass produced (i.e. a Rhino, Land Raider, Leman Russ, bolter, lasgun, etc).

Sai-Lauren
28-09-2006, 14:54
Basically it's a set of construction plans in a computer system, you tell it what you want and what you have to hand, it produces the plans, you go off and build it.

There's two views, one that it contains a lot of individual plans for every conceivable need and set of resources, another that it contains a set of component parts, and mixes and matches depending on what the requirements are (so you'd have a vac-sealed cab, a cab for underwater, a cab for non-breathable atmospheres and so on).

There's also the possibility that the STC contained blueprints for an STC factory, that the system could be plugged into (or that such factories could be built or supplied). There by giving you the ability to ask it for something, fill up the raw component hoppers, then walk around the front of the factory and see it rolled out on the conveyor belts, ready to go (the Iron Man production facility in First and Only would seem to be one of these factories).

Most of the STC material that's been recovered is the plans though (or in most cases, nth generation copies of these plans) - a fully functional STC system is the AMs Holy Grail.


Wait, they can create things from just plain old materials? So you could say, "I want an uber tank of super firepower/armor" and it would create the best one from the stuff it had?
Kind of, if you only had wood, it would do it's best to give you plans to build a wooden tank.

It's not a Star Trek replicator that can break matter down into atoms/molecules and reconstitute them (via transporter or vapour deposition) in whatever molecular form you wanted.

I would also put limits on the amount of military equipment available - after all, the STC designed tanks started their lives as civilian vehicles (the Russ was based off a tractor IIRC).

Pilgrim
28-09-2006, 14:56
The idea behind the STC system arose from the massive waves of human interstellar colonisation during the Dark Age of Technology (and other remote periods of history).

Essentially the core of the STC system was a database of human technological knowledge. By far the most commonly utilised aspects of this were, as Zzarchov says, simple colonisation tools, to enable a population to survive. This would include things like basic machinery, housing technologies, and other apparatus to enable a comfortable standard of living. Higher technology (electronics, more advanced power systems and high-technology industry, etc) was then available from the database as the colony grew beyond subsistence.

The background does make note of the STC databases including highly advanced scientifc knowledge, even stretching to theoretical and prototype work, although it is also noted that these were rarely, if ever utilised. It is this bias towards colonial technology as opposed to high science on the part of the vast majority of colonies that led to the technological degradation of human civilisation (although it has undergone at least partial rediscovery since).

Military technologies would also have been included in this, and, human nature being what it is, would likely have also seen extensive use. Essentially it was supposed to embody the sum total of human technological and scientific knowledge at the time. Whether it fell short of this goal is debateable, but likely.
It was also meant to standardise human technology. By collecting technological information and blueprints into a central database, the STC system ensured that all human worlds used the same designs and technologies for everything. This would have simplified the logistics of colonisation enormously. It is for this reason that human civilisation appears so uniform as regards technology. There are obviously going to be diferences from world to world on certain issues, since research undoubtedly took place both during the colonisation era, and continuing into and throughout the Age of the Imperium, but for the most part it ensured a vast degree of standardisation.

It is from these surviving STC designs (which appear to have been both successful, and widespread, and thus survived the passage of time in a more or less unchanged form) and also from surviving STC elements (such as printouts, partial databases and so on) that Imperial technology is founded(along with the majority of human technology throughout the galaxy).

Adrian

damz451
28-09-2006, 15:51
Altho the majority of imperial technoligy is from stc's not all are, the majority of titans are not built by stc designs except for that one from "dark adeptus" which was designed by stc and was vastly superior.

Also in first and only ddnt someone find stc for a knife or something and was rewarded greatly for it?

cav da man
28-09-2006, 19:38
"hey the add said i could get out of a lifetime of eating bullets for breakfast if i found an STC , look what i found!:) "
"lemme see that...dude it makes waffle irons!"
"waffle irons yes, but vastly superior waffle irons!"
"now you're wasting my time...... if you want your reward fetch me some *magic* waffles then!"

Slazton
28-09-2006, 22:15
During the Horus Hersey alot of the recalimed STCs were lost.......and destroyed.....

Which is kind of silly as one would think the AdMech would have taken them to Mars...but when you consider the fact Mars was also in a civil war...it makes sense...

Also STCs apparently gave us everything that we have now, however, the ones found at present are only the actual templates not the vast computer that makes them. The Computer that made them was actually very useful for early colonisation as well, and if one were ever discovered the AdMech would be in full swing of upgrading the Imperial Technology as the STC is a gift from the Omnissiah, personally thats what I think they consider the Ominissiah to be....

BrainFireBob
29-09-2006, 05:39
My understanding was that the STCs were networked, had the collected sum of human technological knowledge programmed in, and what was effectively an AI- and it's the AI that was "really" the STC.

You programmed in your design parameters (what you wanted) and your available materials (what you had). The STC then spit out a design perfect for the task and materials- or, where attached to a factory, spat out the machine itself. Since all STCs were "copies," they made similar designs- which is why they keep finding Rhino-based vehicles, say. This is because the Rhino was either "spontaneously" designed by a number of STCs from materials common on many planets- or with vague design parameters (hence its ability to run on any flammable liquid)- or one STC designed it and "uploaded it" into the central network.

Any STC that designed a Rhino would then, one presumes, be asked to design vehicles for specific purposes given the Rhino as a basis, since colonists already had factories for those.

I had also been under the impression the "decay" of the STC systems was from the warp storms destroying/interrupting the central database/network, shutting some down and driving others "insane," and thus causing the technological collapse of the Dark Age of technology- and coincidentally why finding a "functioning" database is so prized- for its design abilities, even more than its knowledge.

Surviving STC designs are prized religiously be the AdMech and practically by the other Imperial branches, since the tech is compatible with the existing factorums.

Sergeant Tanthius
29-09-2006, 05:55
For some unknown reason power armour was not built from STCs, neither are Terminator armour. Thats about all the Imperium have done in 10,000 years in the R&D department.

Ardathair
29-09-2006, 06:46
According to RT the STC were computers which you told them hat materials you had available and it told you how to build the STANDARD items from. This meant that Rhinos were Rhinos whether they came from a mineral rich planet which could make them of metal or a mineral starved planet which had to make them from wood, just quite a bit thicker.

That was the bueaty of STC, no matter where it came from an X vehical, weapon, or piece of machinery could look different but function the same.

Sai-Lauren
29-09-2006, 08:13
My understanding was that the STCs were networked, had the collected sum of human technological knowledge programmed in, and what was effectively an AI- and it's the AI that was "really" the STC.

Unlikely, power requirements for the transmitter/receiver array that would be required would be immense - far beyond anything a new colony could supply, and too bulky to have internal.

It's more like an expert system than a true AI.

The AM do have networked altars on their forge worlds, although I doubt these are STCs (or if they are, the AM don't know they are).

Commander Ozae
29-09-2006, 12:51
Nobody has a complete STC because if they did then they would have the sum of all human technological knowledge. Some people speculate that if the Imperium found a complete STC then they would reconquer the entire galaxy in a matter of years because they would have tech so advanced that it might even rival the Necrons.

High Marshal Trenth
29-09-2006, 14:24
Nobody has a complete STC because if they did then they would have the sum of all human technological knowledge. Some people speculate that if the Imperium found a complete STC then they would reconquer the entire galaxy in a matter of years because they would have tech so advanced that it might even rival the Necrons.

(jaw drops) Really?!, wow, we need to get our butts in gear and start lookin for these things! On topic, So we only have their blue prints of the stuff that was created? Why then are baneblades not reproduced?

damz451
29-09-2006, 14:58
(jaw drops) Really?!, wow, we need to get our butts in gear and start lookin for these things! On topic, So we only have their blue prints of the stuff that was created? Why then are baneblades not reproduced?

i thought they were but in really small numbers, also just because they know the blueprints doesnt mean that they can mass produce them, land raiders are rarer than they were during the hh because the one forgeworld that was dedicated to land raider production was taken over by chaos and was pretty much wrecked.

Brother Smith
29-09-2006, 16:35
Current Imperial technology is NOT STC. Only a small, very small minority of it is.

Most if it is bastard derivatives of ancient STC blueprints, which themselves have usually been tampered with,

Further still, most regular Imperial technology (PDF/Other Military & Civilian) is locally designed and produced. Most of the technology on a civilised world, for example, would have been redeveloped locally during the Age of Strife, either by ingenuity or by using STC remains (which are what most would consider 'STC's now and are highly sought after by the Adeptus Mechanicus as they are often to closest to STC you can get).

With the coming of the Emperor, most worlds had STC tech introduced to them, but again, much of this was lost during the heresy.

Them came the modern Imperium we play in today.

Earlydawn
04-10-2006, 17:43
Dark Adeptus implies that STCs were, in fact, Artificial Intelligence. That also has some interesting implications for why we don't find any anymore. If they're AI, they were "the enemy" during the Dark Age when machines decided to try and wipe us out. Hense, the majority of STCs were destroyed as a preventative measure.

hermann morr
04-10-2006, 20:55
I was thinking.. should AM find a fully functional STC database its duty would be ended, Imperium would reproduce the database, distribute it throughout the galaxy , no more need at all of old crazed techpriests.
So, if i was the AM i would search for any existing STC system and destroy it..
Oh, and i would also destroy some short legged beardies that broke my monopoly over technologies..

Tastyfish
04-10-2006, 21:01
(jaw drops) Really?!, wow, we need to get our butts in gear and start lookin for these things! On topic, So we only have their blue prints of the stuff that was created? Why then are baneblades not reproduced? This is debatable, the 'canonisation' of the STC systems means that people don't think rationally about them. If you look at the various technologies that have come out of the STC systems and then the recently designed equivalents (controlled plasma tech for one has greatly improved since STC designs) its entirely possible that the Admech has pretty much the complete set - however because they consider the STC system some sort of miracle and worship technology as the machine god they can't begin to accept the idea that the answer to everything doesn't lie in the STC systems.

Essentially, reclaiming the STC systems has caused them to be overly reliant on it and massively effected their entire philosophy. They are desperately hunting for the last few templates, not because they know they are there - but because there are still problems. Rather than think to work out the problems on their own, they assume that there must be an STC to solve it.

Brother Smith
04-10-2006, 21:14
This is debatable, the 'canonisation' of the STC systems means that people don't think rationally about them. If you look at the various technologies that have come out of the STC systems and then the recently designed equivalents (controlled plasma tech for one has greatly improved since STC designs) its entirely possible that the Admech has pretty much the complete set - however because they consider the STC system some sort of miracle and worship technology as the machine god they can't begin to accept the idea that the answer to everything doesn't lie in the STC systems.

Essentially, reclaiming the STC systems has caused them to be overly reliant on it and massively effected their entire philosophy. They are desperately hunting for the last few templates, not because they know they are there - but because there are still problems. Rather than think to work out the problems on their own, they assume that there must be an STC to solve it.

Better than the Plasma STC remains.

Again, there is so little true STC in the Galaxy. Almost all 'STC's are just tampered with (through the generations) blueprints.

Commander Ozae
04-10-2006, 21:58
Yeah, the closest the Admech has ever come to recreating the STC stuff are the legendary weapons like hte Ordinatus. For example, take a void missile. This is a weapon that with a single shot can annihilate an entire enemy Titan even with shields on. With an STC template for the void missile they could be mass produced and we could understand how they work too.

Kage2020
04-10-2006, 22:28
Methinks that is pedastalling STC technology somewhat... They were devices to allow colonists the maximum potential for creating a sustainable technological infrastructure, not a magical bag of holding, despite what some would argue! :D

Kage

Tastyfish
04-10-2006, 23:05
Better than the Plasma STC remains.

Again, there is so little true STC in the Galaxy. Almost all 'STC's are just tampered with (through the generations) blueprints.

Why would the STC system have anything but the most efficient and effective weapons. 'Modern' plasma weapons are more reliable and more powerful than the STC equivalents as of the 2nd ed Chaos book - the increased abstractions of 3/4th ed just level this out.

Also consider the worlds that have kept the higher level STC systems (actually read your 3rd ed rulebook to see how advanced a Leman Russ is), why would they not have the top level plasma options as part of the instructions. The biggest thing to remember with the STC system is that is was devised at the beginning of the Dark Age and was one of the big factors that allowed the spread of humanity into the galaxy, this is also an age where psychics are a rare phenomenom rather than the usuable number the Imperium has (not to mention the larger population to draw upon). Once a colony was founded there would likely be no contact until the planet had established interstellar travel again - the STC systems are basically tech from the very beginning of the Dark age, there is another 10,000 years of research til the age of Imperium (with planets who maintained themselves throughout the warp storms) and another 10,000 years following that.

The real reason for Imperial stagnation of technology doesn't lie purely with a doomed hunt for a holy grail but with its unacceptance of AI and its past experience with short cuts around the problem.

The Imperium's problem is that it has reached the level at which you require more than a human lifetime to reach the cutting edge of science even without the trappings of religion that now surround it (hence why atheistic colonies never progressed further). Proper AI is a trickier proposition than just making thinking computers as at the level where they can actually do research they need motivation - and copying a human mind, either as a model or using tech found in the ruins of Mars to transfer a mind into a suitable metal mind (most likely creating an 'iron man') just creates post-humans who are nothing but trouble, tending to either eradicate their ancestors or ignore them and head off into fast-time.

The Tau and Eldar mindsets are totally alien to humans, and unfortunately for us are more suitable (either being massively collectivist or more suited for near immortality) for the creation of AI hence why they have been able to outstrip humanity in technology.

Commander Ozae
05-10-2006, 01:01
The problem with Imperial tech is that it is under a monopoly with the AdMech. They hate innovation and experimentation and so on. Therefore, they seek out the STC's because then they have the full might and understanding of the Dark Age and they know it works.

Sai-Lauren
05-10-2006, 08:14
Methinks that is pedastalling STC technology somewhat... They were devices to allow colonists the maximum potential for creating a sustainable technological infrastructure, not a magical bag of holding, despite what some would argue! :D

Kage

Wonder who you could mean :angel:

But yes, let's not get confused between what the STCs were, and what they are venerated as being by certain groups, especially the AM.


The problem with Imperial tech is that it is under a monopoly with the AdMech. They hate innovation and experimentation and so on.
Yes and no.
Yes they have the monopoly on technology, but they don't produce all the imperial technological items, only the highest/military tech ones.

Similarly, they don't hate innovation and experimentation, only that which isn't done with proper reverence for the machine god - I can easily see them finding some inventor on a world, trying him for tech-heresy and probably doing whatever unpleasant thing they want with him, picking up all his research notes, taking them back to the nearest forge world and giving them to some adept to look over and then follow under the proper sanctified conditions.

Although if he's very good, and has followed the correct rituals, they could potentially simply scoop him up and take him to the nearest Forge World to be ordained into the Mechanicus cult - they must get new members from somewhere.

ThorOdensson
05-10-2006, 09:01
Wonder who you could mean :angel:

But yes, let's not get confused between what the STCs were, and what they are venerated as being by certain groups, especially the AM.


Yes and no.
Yes they have the monopoly on technology, but they don't produce all the imperial technological items, only the highest/military tech ones.

Similarly, they don't hate innovation and experimentation, only that which isn't done with proper reverence for the machine god - I can easily see them finding some inventor on a world, trying him for tech-heresy and probably doing whatever unpleasant thing they want with him, picking up all his research notes, taking them back to the nearest forge world and giving them to some adept to look over and then follow under the proper sanctified conditions.

Although if he's very good, and has followed the correct rituals, they could potentially simply scoop him up and take him to the nearest Forge World to be ordained into the Mechanicus cult - they must get new members from somewhere.

Actually the Marines produce most of their own equipment most prominently the Rhino and its variants one of the most technologically advance pieces of military tech the Imperium has (notice i say technologically advanced not powerful there is a difference) I wouldnt believe it would be unheard of for marines to also produce the land raiders as the share many systems with the rhino.

The AM does innovate and invent the complete land speeder was not made from a STC data print out Land only recovered the complete plans for the Raider and anti-gravity technology data printouts with which the Land Speeder was desgined by the Am to take advantage of

Also SM techmarines are know to innovate (well atleast the Space Wolves however the other chapters have no qualms about using the designs without admech approval) the Predator Annihilator is the most famous example

Sai-Lauren
05-10-2006, 09:18
Actually the Marines produce most of their own equipment most prominently the Rhino and its variants one of the most technologically advance pieces of military tech the Imperium has (notice i say technologically advanced not powerful there is a difference) I wouldnt believe it would be unheard of for marines to also produce the land raiders as the share many systems with the rhino.

Agree, I was thinking of things like Titans, Ordinatii, Servo skulls and the like.

Tastyfish
05-10-2006, 12:27
The problem with Imperial tech is that it is under a monopoly with the AdMech. They hate innovation and experimentation and so on. Therefore, they seek out the STC's because then they have the full might and understanding of the Dark Age and they know it works.Should also be mentioned that the reason technology is regarded with such supersition is due to the STCs not telling you how things work - even if they recovered the complete set (and have not already done so) they would still not have any more information on how certain items work - only how to built them.

MvS
05-10-2006, 12:39
Yes, I think this was part of GW's original intention in the STC imagery - it allows for manufactured technology of a high (or sci-fantasy) level, but with understanding of that technology at a markedly lower level than would otherwise be expected.

Brother Smith
05-10-2006, 15:19
I thought the Rhino was pretty common and had whole worlds producing them?

Commander Ozae
05-10-2006, 15:59
Yes, the Rhino is produced everywhere because its easy to make and is basically useful in almost any situation. It's one of the most useful vehicles ever invented, even though the Land Raider is better but harder to build.

Voronwe[MQ]
06-10-2006, 16:39
That explains why the Adeptus Arbites utilise them.

Kage2020
06-10-2006, 19:57
So, the 'fluff' defines the vehicle as useful, therefore it is useful, and thus the Adeptus Arbites (for example) would use the vehicle because it is useful? Hmmn... I think I just got dizzy. ;)

Seriously, though, remember that wargame design is a part of the supposed use of such vehicles. It's kind of like having STC horses! :D

Kage

Voronwe[MQ]
07-10-2006, 16:16
Well, it is robust and useful, so that's why the Adeptus Arbites uses them (they've got another name then);)