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View Full Version : Eldar: Good, Bad, Interesting - pt. 2



Orbital
30-09-2006, 06:50
Back in March I started a thread called "The Eldar Codex Game" (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28200). Here's how it worked: As far as the upcoming Eldar Codex goes, tell us something that you think would be good to see, something that would be bad, and something which would be just plain interesting. For instance, you might say: Good: Longer ranged Shuriken Catapults, Bad: No changes to the Wraithlord's stats, Interesting: Harlequins are included. Another example? Maybe: Good: Codex is out before Christmas, Bad: No new HQ choices, Interesting: Expanded fluff on Phoenix Lords.

A fair amount of time has passed and tons more has come to light. Now that the Eldar codex is no longer a mystery to us like it was back in March, I'd be interested in knowing what folks can come up with if we spin the wheel again.

What would not be part of the game is a lot of side analysis of what people are posting; this is all just personal opinion, and that's understood. There's a huge abundance of detailed discussion going on about the Eldar here at Warseer; this is meant to be something different.

Good, bad, interesting. What have ya got for me now that the clock has almost run out on our very long wait?

I'm gonna start.

Good: The Autarch. Boy, did we need him. With the Avatar being not-all-he's-cracked-up-to-be and the Farseer being less than awesome in combat, we really needed this guy. Space Marines, Tau and Tyranids have their versatile, customizable 4th ed commander. We needed ours.

Bad: I would have liked to have seem some Craftworld variants. Though I'm quite convinced the basic list will be very, very flexible, I can't help but wonder if we're going to lose a bit of flavor for the lack of characterful sub-lists. It's really the end of an era, that's for sure.

Interesting: Aside from the Autarch, there's very, very little about the new codex that wans't there before... it's just that everything is now viable and worth taking. At first I was hoping for a new Aspect or a new tank but, instead, I'm beginning to realize that just making the stuff that's already in the Eldar arsenal balanced and viable is like having all-new units. I mean, who isn't curious to give Shining Spears a good try? Or the Fire Prism? Or the Swooping Hawks? It's like having our old toys dusted off and polished so that they give us that "new toy" feeling once again.

Reflex
30-09-2006, 07:13
Good: aspect worriers have been put in the lime light and boosted. example: dire avengers are being emphasized over guardians.
Warwalkers i belive are being boosted ebcause not only is it that the models look good, but people may use them now too.

Bad: havent thought of one yet...

Interesting: still harlies. what will be interesting is to see f people take them over aspect worriers. another interesting thing about harlis is how they will fair up in the game.
another interesting part of the new codex will be how the wraithlord fairs up. being reduced in attacks and it now needs a spiritseer to be 100% controlable and safe.

is this what you were looking for?

Orbital
30-09-2006, 07:27
Sounds good to me. Anyone else?

Xander-K
30-09-2006, 09:39
Good: New Dire Avenger models & rules, new Autarchs, new Harlies (although painting them is a b*tch).

Bad: Downgrading of vehicle upgrades, although they were a little overpowered anyway.

Interesting: No new warp spider pics yet :( whyyyy?

Epicenter
30-09-2006, 10:08
Good: A move away from Guardians towards Dire Avengers. Boosts to the Shining Spears. Making the Avatar more interesting (and hopefully useful).

Bad: I've still yet to be convinced that the new Eldar codex will be balanced at all. The weird, convulted rules to simulate Craftworlds instead of having Craftworld armies.

Interesting: Harlequins!

Gorbad Ironclaw
30-09-2006, 10:20
Good: Hopefully the list will be a bit more balanced, where more units actually having a role to serve in the army. Being based more on play-style than on pure viability.

Bad: Seems like they stupidly kept Guardians, and the Shuriken Catapult as is. It have to rank as the single worst decision made on Eldars ever, and I was really hoping someone would grow some sense and rectify it. Sadly, it doesn't seem so, so my enthusiasm for the new codex is much reduced.

Interesting: How the list will supposedly allow you to create very different specialised armies, hopefully without the loss of balance.

Sarigar
30-09-2006, 11:01
GOOD: A good amount of rework on existing units to make them viable choices. (Rumored) Guardian squads w/ a heavy weapon being able to get into a Wave Serpent.

BAD: War Walkers still a Heavy Support Choice. Too many HS choices still and the WW may be the loser as a choice. Webway Portal? Where will it be? Will the USF still even be playable? As a codex rewrite, this looks to be possibly the only armylist not able to be reflected.

INTERESTING: Harlequins. They have never been just a unit addition and have had their own list (even going back to 1st edition where they were just horribly broken). New models look cool and the rules sound very interesting.

Rork
30-09-2006, 11:14
Good: The fire prism! Finally it's worth taking. Aspect warriors now don't end up doings that goes against their role (like hawks and their combat exarch of death). Overpriced units are now either cheaper or worth their cost.

Bad: My beautiful seer council! :cries: I think guardians are the new dire avengers - i.e. baffling as to why you'd take them.

Interesting: Everything else :D.

sanctusmortis
30-09-2006, 11:15
GOOD: Army made attractive to new gamers. Eldar were always seen as "the pro choice" back in the 2nd/3rd ed times, and this new Codex looks to make them more accessible.

BAD: I wanted a Harlequins list :( They're now the Eldar's Grey Knights (2nd ed, not now for sure!): a horrifically expensive choice to take, but sooo damn tempting.

INTERESTING: Yriel steps back up to the plate, old RT iconography and all. No sign of a Solitaire for Harlequins, giving hope they may get a "splinter dex". War Walker and Wraithlord resculpts amazing.

UnRiggable
30-09-2006, 12:35
Good: Lots of different ways to make armies now! (wraithguards can be troops sometimes right?)
Bad: Guardians are still things to overlook.
Interesting: "Death Jesters"

natedogg710
30-09-2006, 13:34
Good: New Wraithlord and Autarch poses look awesome.

Bad: It seems that the Guardians have become useless and I just bought 2 weapons platforms a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully the guardians will be some what playable.

Interesting: Harlequins. I just started playing a few months ago and I don't know much about them, they just look awesome.

TomKamakazi
30-09-2006, 13:51
I'll be in on this...


GOOD: There may only be a pair of new units in the codex, (Autarch and Harlies if you can call them new) but it sure feels like it's been expanded with many old units becoming more of a viable option.

BAD: I was personally hoping for a bigger range of Farseer and Warlock powers. I was so very ready to pay 200 points for my Farseer :rolleyes:

INTERESTING: I'm wondering what is going to be the new percieved "Cheese" unit(s). With Starcannons being toned down there has to be something to complain about.

Tarquinn
30-09-2006, 14:00
Good: Longer ranged shuriken catapults. Gawd, was I missing them since the 2nd Ed.

Bad: Longer ranged shuriken catapults only available for Dire Avengers.

Interesting: The new Fire Prism rules. I might actually asssemble the Fire Prism I bought about 7 or 8 years ago now.

e033x
30-09-2006, 14:46
GOOD: Eldar dex updated. YAY! did i miss something.....:D

BAD: i have to buy things again :cries:

INTERESTING: hmmm......harlies!

RampagingRavener
30-09-2006, 14:53
Good: Harle-freaking-quins, new Wraithlord model, Autarch. Despite not playing CWE, all of the above will be finding their way into my other assorted armies in one form or another.

Bad: Meh-tacular Scorpions and Banshees. They could have been so, so much more. Instead, they're just static and "adequate"

Interesting: Despite the crys of Eldar players over the world, keeping the Gaurdian Shruikat at 12" range. Personally I'm glad they did this, having Gaurdians as purely albative wounds for heavy weapons never seemed right to me. Hopefully people will be more agressive with Gaurdians, giving them a Warlock with Conceal and running them in close support of Aspect warriors.

Zerosoul
30-09-2006, 15:30
Good: More variety in HQ choices. The Autarch is an interesting alternative to the standard Farseer, and it sounds like the Avatar is going to be a monster in HtH. Even the plain ol' Farseer is sounding pretty tough, with lots of different choices for psychic powers. I think Doom is going to become pretty much standard, but the second one is kind of questionable.

Bad: Harlequins. Wait! Put down the torches. I just think they're too good. A little over 20 points for Rending, a 5+ invulnerable, ignoring difficult terrain, Furious Charge leading to I7 and S4, Hit and Run? Yes please! There's a lot of competition for elite slots, and I see very little reason to take Banshees or Scorpions over Harlequins aside from army theme. Mechanically Harlequins are superior in almost every way.

Interesting: Eldar are going to have some incredibly mobile tanks. The idea of boosting a transport loaded with, oh, say, Fire Dragons, across the table 36" and knowing that it can only crash if they roll two sixes in a row? Hoo boy. I'm interested to see if mechanized Eldar become the default choice, or what other lists take shape.

Tsillanabor
30-09-2006, 15:45
Good-Jetbikes as Troops, Autarch as a much needed additional HQ.

Bad-War Walkers remaining Heavy Support. Too many options there.

Interesting: Fire prism.

sneb
30-09-2006, 15:59
GOOD: now theres I reason why I blew $40 on a squad of shining spears, autarch rules. Fire Prisim now viable
BAD:No 2 wound character choice
INTERESTING:Harliequins and revised vehicle options

Squallish
30-09-2006, 16:26
Good: Dire Avengers and Shuriken Storm (name?).. could be a little too good even.
Bad: No solid upgrade to Heavy Weapon Batteries. Wraithguard are still too expensive for one wound and very short range to depend on.
Interesting: Fire Prisms! I imagine an army of 2 Prisms (Anti-tank/Heavy Inf), 1 Falcon (Anti-Inf w/ Dragons), 2 Waveserpents (w/ Avengers) and it makes me very happy.

Gabriel
30-09-2006, 17:42
Good: Jetbike mounted Autarchs! With laser lances! Wraithguard! Dire avengers and the new scorpions. The new harlie models!

Bad: No more seer council unless I want to forgo the Autarch/avatar/phoenix lords :(

Interesting: How to best use the new 'lord with only 2 attacks.... How to fit everything in.....

insectum7
30-09-2006, 18:11
Good: More and more options for a staple race of the 41st milennium.

Bad: How players might abuse the new range of options.

Interesting: Hopefully my new games against the Eldar will be more interesting.

Z-chan
30-09-2006, 18:20
Good: Dire Avengers and SHIIIIIIINNIIIIIIING SPEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHS

Bad: I'll miss my CTM'd Vypers

Interesting: Batm-err, Autarch

Warp_touched
30-09-2006, 20:18
Good: Transports and tanks are even better! I could never figure out why people didn't like the fire prism in the first place, and now I'm really excited for it, along with the forgottens ( shining spears, swooping hawks ) to be made better.
Bad: I'm disapointed that theres no variables, even with the amount of flexibility.
Intresting: Harlequins Harlequins Harlequins!

Inq. Veltane
30-09-2006, 20:53
Good: Everything to do with Dire Avengers now.

Bad: Serpents look like they are going to be rather expensive.

Interesting: Harlequins I think, I'm curious to see if they turn out to be too. Will they be too powerful? Or too vulnerable to rapid fire weapons?

Seth the Dark
01-10-2006, 01:26
Good: A usefulness for War Walkers and possibly Shining Spears.

Bad: The possibly nerfing of Biel-Tan and no new Warp Spiders.

Interesting: What will GW do with the Wraithlord?

Reflex
01-10-2006, 01:51
i have found my bad...

BAD: that the weapons batteries are still fairly useless. apart form the D-cannon.

Spyrle_106
01-10-2006, 13:09
Good: Jetbikes are cheaper, which means more Jetbikes for me. Scorpion minis I'll actually buy.

Bad: No Aspects riding jetbikes, Lots of leftover Warlocks and Farseers. No Spear of Khaine.

Interesting: How I'm going to covert the new warwalkers so the canopy doesn't look like it was added on upside down.

Spyrle

Orbital
01-10-2006, 13:10
Bad: No Aspects riding jetbikes

Shining Spears?

Spyrle_106
01-10-2006, 13:21
Actually, I was refering to Scorpions or Fire Dragons on Jetbikes. Like in "Bringers of Death"

My bad, I should have been more specific.

Spyrle

Da Reddaneks
01-10-2006, 13:31
Good: flexiability and viability of units.

Bad: The peroid of time where we will have to listen to those who will invariably try to manipulate loop holes and oversights in the codex despite occhams razor.

Interesting: the predictive value of the codex. phil kelly did the nid codex and this eldar codex. there are very unreliable, but logical, rumors that he will be doing the ork codex. If he is in fact going to do the Ork codex then seeing his take on other xenos may give us some small insight into the future of the green skins.

Elanthanis
02-10-2006, 04:57
The Good: Dire Avengers finally have their shot at living up to the fluff which goes alongside them- a resilient eldar shooting unit. The entire army has been better defined as well, while maintaining craftworld flexability.

The Bad: So many options might make min-maxing even worse this time around, but we'll have to see.

The Interesting: In the same tune, the number of options availible to units, and the ability to pretty much hand tailor a unit via Exarch skills will make for some very unique eldar armies. At the same time, it might make units which were favored (Howling Banshees) far less popular due to some fairly ineffective choices with regard to USRs granted by exarch powers.

Warjammer
02-10-2006, 15:41
Good: Can finally see some games with some versatility in army selections and they work too:) .

Bad: Gaurdian heavy Ulthwe and four sqauds of the same aspect warriors no longer viable (hello e-bay). I will still take a lot of gaurdians but man those dire Avengers are going to kick my but. I never had four squads of the same aspect warriors but I knew someone who did and man is he pissed.

interesting: Any new wargear that has not been mentioned. It would be nice if the technologically advanced Eldar could have something that allows them to see in the dark. Maybe they are too used to artificial lighting.:D

Cheesehead
02-10-2006, 16:31
Good: People selling off all their guardians because they think that they're rubbish - more for me. Prism Cannon that will hit.

Bad: Wraithlord with wraithsight. Hvy2 Starcannon. No CTM's or Scythes. No Seer councils. Avatar not as good as he should be. Anemic Autarch. Seers that can be instagibbed by perils. Harlequins in general.

Interesting: how people are orgasming over this codex when I'm really not looking forward to it at all.

Jorek
02-10-2006, 16:41
Good: The feel of overall balance. Yes, there will be Units the more competitive Players may shun, but me firmly in the fluff-gamers camp couldnīt wish for more. Love to play a former-underdog-only army. :)

Bad: The gut feeling I have about the farseers. I canīt point exactly to it, but I have a bad feeling with the updated guys... But we will see and there is still hope, that GW didnīt mess them up too badly.

Interesting: To play a overhauled army. To get thinking once again about combinations of power and applications of force with an army I once knew inside out and the other way round... and the look on the face of my ork opponent when my Storm Serpent unloads his DAīs and they let loose a volley of bladestormed shuricat-fire. :)

Orbital
02-10-2006, 17:46
I'm gonna do another one (it's not against the rules :) )

Good: Little touches. Move through cover for Scorpions, Universal Scout Rule for War Walkers, Deep Strike for Warp Spiders, etc. There are these little adjustments in the rules which, to me, mix in a bit of flavor to make the Eldar more distinct, their capabilities more diverse. A lot of units are actually staying mostly unchanged except for little tiny tweaks which, ironically, make all the difference in the world to me. The little tiny adjustments make me really happy.

Bad: I don't know the final Autarch stats and stuff, so I realize I may be worried about nothing. Having said that, I would like to think that the Autarch has more to contribute than just being a generic mannequin to hang gear on. What I've seen so far is a basic "HQ Statline" and a long list of mix-and-match gear. Don't get me wrong; having a blank HQ upon which to put anything you wish is great in terms of basic game numbers, but I find it lacks character. I wanna see something from the Autarch that's more than just gear and stats.

Interesting: A 40k army is all about its combos and permutations, but this goes doubly so for the Eldar. With their many specialists, it's going to be crucial to assemble really good combos where one squad supports another. In the current codex we all know the most popular ways to mix and match units and get the biggest punch. I'm really eager to see what comes of the new codex as far as army list trends go.

silverstu
02-10-2006, 18:39
Good: The return of the dire avengers- cool rules and lovely new mini's. Big sexy wraithlord and warwalkers. The new range in general and basically being faced with a fresh faced army which I have loved for ages.
Bad: Having to wait for the codex, shing spears not getting new models to match their seemingly great rules.
Interesting: Interested to see how my army composition is going to develop with this new codex- plus the return of the harlies.

eldarlordx
02-10-2006, 18:53
Good:LOTS of new models I saw new dire avengers, scorps, farseers, wraithlord, an autarch, bonesinger and I thinks theres a new falcon??

Bad: ?

Interesting: whose going to win the next GT now that the unbeatable eldar are gone??????????

BrainFireBob
02-10-2006, 18:58
Good: Re-balanced Aspect Warriors. Dire Avengers worth it, new Exarch powers benefiting squads. All Aspects potentially worthwhile!

Bad: Shining Spears might become the new, better Banshees, and Harlequins may end up being broken, especially in Cityfight. Of course, both models are nice, so seeing them on the table will be worth their disproportionate killyness.

Interesting: Second on Kelly writing the Ork dex, and for Eldar, the fact that we should be seeing an increase in Eldar players again, as they learn their new dex- I'm really intrigued to see how they play on the table.

Locke
02-10-2006, 19:14
good: USR's where appropriate, more serpent space, balanced cost for avatar, wraithlord balancing

bad: loss of jump movement for hawks, guardians still suck, vypers still over costed, prisms will most likely only be taken in 2's or 3's

intersting: wierd new rules: fire prism, harlies flattened out into one elite option

Cheesehead
02-10-2006, 20:09
loss of jump movement for hawks

They still have their jump, just not a 6" assault move like the jetbikes. They have the 12" move, and a FoF.

luchog
02-10-2006, 23:41
Good:
More flexibility overall.

Nerfed the broken Starcannon. About damn time. (If only they'd do the same with the even-more-broken Assault Cannon.)

The autarch, while I'll probably never use it, is an excellent new HQ choice. Just increases the flexibility of potential army lists. Not to mention the excellent conversion potential for the model.

A decently powerful Avatar, that is actually useful for a change.

Improved the stats on a lot of units to make them both more effective and more fluffy.

Dire Avengers are now the pre-eminent troop choice, and have decent shooting ability (though I don't like that the range is still less than a bolter, and their model still sucks).

Bad:
What little diversity the Eldar had with the craftworld-specific lists is more or less gone. Why can they give Space Marines individual codices for what are such minor differences between chapters; but take away what little distictiveness alternate Eldar variants (and Ork variants for that matter) had? At least the Tau keep getting more minor-race mercenaries, but they're as much a marketting gimmick as anything else.

Guardians are still pretty much just useless cannon-fodder GEQs; and just as prone to min-max abuse. Otherwise, why bother taking them when Dire-Avengers are so much better? Yes, they get a heavy-weapons platform; but the War Walker is much more useful and not that much more expensive.

Still no Exodites. I want Space-Elves on Giant Lizards, dammit. In fact, they should give them their own codex like Dark Eldar have, and Harlequin Eldar should have (and sort of used to have). If the mutant jarheads alone can get half a dozen completely seperate minor-variant codices (not counting Chaos), then the Eldar can get 4 major-variant codices, goshdarnit. That would be teh nifty, Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Exodite Eldar, and Harlequins.

Interesting:
I really really like seeing the Harlequins back, but I didn't put this in "Good" since I'm not entirely happy with how they've been restructured, or with the fact that several units (eg. Mimes, Solitaire) and some of their old wargear are missing entirely. The stats aren't bad, however. I want to see a new Harlequin codex with all the old unit types (including Wraithlords, since they're not un-fluffy), and the ability to take allies from the Craftword and Dark (and Exodite) Eldar.

EsDawg
03-10-2006, 00:04
Good - Definitely balancing out the list. Making the weak units beefier and toning down the over powered units. Emphasizing Exarchs buffing the squad as a whole and not just itself.

Bad - Guardians still get no love :(.

Interesting - I'm curious as to what the Autarch is gonna be options and stats wise. The Harlies deserved some attention

Griffin
03-10-2006, 07:01
Good - More units made Viable, and some new inclusions.

Bad - Losing Craftworld Specific lists, and having to take Wraithgaurd In squads of ten before they count as troops.

Intersting - Harlies

jacobus
03-10-2006, 12:59
Good - New 'dex, new minis, new rules. Need I say more?

Bad - No bl**dy Seer Councils! And Wraithsight on WL's! :cries:

Interesting - The Autarch, Shining Spear, Warp Spiders - Units I might actually take now if the the rumoured rules updates are true!

Locke
03-10-2006, 14:57
They still have their jump, just not a 6" assault move like the jetbikes. They have the 12" move, and a FoF.


aahhh, kk..

must have misunderstood the rumors- THANKS!!

Agelmar
03-10-2006, 17:22
Good - Lots more options, especially the buffs to the Fire Prism, making it an option. Survivability on Wave Serpents. More HQ choices. Doom. Extra seats in Wave Serpents.

Bad - Storm Guardians as the only close combat troop choice and no plasma grendae option.

Interesting - Vehicle Upgrades making tanks more survivable but at a loss of some fire power. How I'm going to make a good close combat army and not get killed for army comp.

Tigerguy
03-10-2006, 18:21
Good:
Dire Avengers getting buffed. The (supposedly) most populous aspect finally looks to be up to snuff. I'll take two squads and call you in the morning.:D

Autarch. Finally, an Eldar HQ that can be a combat specialist.

Harlequins. Nice to see them in a major codex. Hopefully we'll see more of them in later releases.

Shining Spears, Warp Spiders, and Swooping Hawks getting a boost. I love the Fast Attack choices available to Eldar now. But my Vypers may no longer have a place with all the boosts to the FA aspects.

Guardians not the dominant troop choice anymore. Hated the min-maxing with these guys. With 10 man min. squad now and the boost to Dire Avengers, I'm hoping to see less of the "militia" in Eldar armies. Large Guardian armies just don't seem very fluffy for a dying race.

Bad:
The loss of the Craftworld lists. I do like the flexability of the new Codex, but the loss of the Craftworld lists loses some of the character from the different Craftworlds. Although the abuse of those lists will not be missed.:p

No 2 wound HQ. Not a real big deal, but would have been nice.

War Walkers as Heavy Support. Especially now with the Scout special rule, I thought they should be in FA.

Interesting:
The new combos. What will emerge as the most effective combos in the new army? And will the most effective new combos soon become the new "cheese"?:cheese:

Farseers and T3. The insta-kill from POTW is harsh. The Ghosthelm save helps, but the use of Farseers will be very interesting. And with the new FAQ about psychic powers and transports and the new Autarch now available, farseers may be seen a lot less in Eldar armies.

LarryS
03-10-2006, 18:32
Good: Dire Avengers and Warp Spiders look to be more playable in this version. Amazing new sculpts for the wraithlord and war walker. No more "broken" craftworld lists.

Bad: Guardians are still pretty much meat shields for their heavy weapons. One more time guys: DARK eldar need a 12" assault 2 gun - craftworld need the 24" rapid fire gun. Sorry - ending rant. Also, still waiting on new wraithguard and warp spider models...

Interesting: Harlequins are back as a part of the army list instead of a separate list. Autarch gives new (cheaper) HQ options.

Leaf
03-10-2006, 18:50
Good: Bringing the Harlies back from the dead!

Bad: Wraithsight on the Wraithlords (not that its not understandable but I just dont like it :p )

Interesting: The loss of the War Walkers shield I tought it really fit along the line of the eldar tech.

aylw
04-10-2006, 04:08
Good:
Autarch, customisable HQ!!! I love it!

Beautiful Models... Yeah that's the best part

Overall balance of a lot of under-utilised units, with beautiful models to go with 'em.

Bad: Guardians nerfed!!! WTF? They actually REMOVED options from the Guardians, without adding anything!!! How does changing min-max from 5-22 (/w platform) to 10-20 make them more usable? Guardians went from bad troop to useless troops, esp with dire avengers+ jetbikes being troops now.

No more Guardians in a Falcon... My poor devestatingly effective flamer/haywire storm squad :(

Harlequins are probably too good... But SM have Assault Cannons, Tyranids have Hive Tyrants, so oh well.

Interesting: How GW seems to have modified the codex by making new models extremely good so people will buy them, while simultaneously nerfing old staples so people have to replace them, ultimately maximising revenue.

Yorrik
04-10-2006, 09:05
Good - Kicking Guardians into a support role, while the aspect warriors and the war machines do the heavy lifting. Fluff-wise you don't call out the citizen militia unless the regular front liners are pretty taxed.

Bad - The Banshee and Scorpion sculpts could have been a *little* more inspired, but other than that I think the Eldar are moving in a great direction.

Interesting - Seeing Eldar fight Tau. That's a whole board of models moving, shooting, and busting out kooky weirdness all over the place.