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View Full Version : Savage Orcs: Spears or Extra Choppa



zodgrim
03-10-2006, 04:43
I've been thinking about adding some savage orcs to my waaagh!

Should they have spears or the extra choppa. With the extra choppa and a champ, I could get 16 attacks with 5 guys in front. And they would be Str 4 in the first round.

With spears, I would only get 11 attacks in the first turn (if I charge). But potentially 21 attacks on the second and further turn.

I was kind of hoping they would eliminate the option of spears since the current miniatures have the extra choppa. But they didn't. Thus, I can't decide!:confused:

rhodeman77
03-10-2006, 05:07
go with the choppa. the str 4 is huge!!!! most combat is determined in the first round. if you can't win and break a unit with 16 str 4 attacks then nothing will.

dodicula
03-10-2006, 07:01
why not have a mix?
You can hav e a "spear tip" unit to take the charge (if facing cavalry) and then have the choppers come in support

truthsayer
03-10-2006, 09:38
Id definately go for the old additional choppas. The strength 4 is pretty good in the first turn and if you havent broken the enemy after that you have either exceedingly bad dice rolls or are playing something that isnt going to break (or both :D ).

In a big game i would make em big uns for the strength 5 and would put in a savage orc bsb or great shaman on boar with waaaghpaint.

Griefbringer
03-10-2006, 10:39
Savage orcs should act aggressively - I think an extra choppa would definitely be more in character!

10th clancannach rangers
03-10-2006, 11:42
But as he is only M4 alot of the time he is going to get charged so spears may be good for this.

maze ironheart
03-10-2006, 13:45
Savage orcs should act aggressively - I think an extra choppa would definitely be more in character!

I aggre takeing a extra choppas is a better plan then takeing a spear they are meant to go loko they are savage after all.If you upgrade them to big uns and have 25 of them and have them 6 across with fullcommand you'll have 19 WS4 S5 Attacks in totol thats nothing to snees at.They may suffer from frenzy but thats what makes them strong i've only got to get some more orcs to finish of my orcs and goblins up to a 1000pts when i start on a 2000pts i'll take these just to rip apart some enemys.

Multifarious
03-10-2006, 16:03
They get +1 str whether they charge or not, just as long as it is the first turn.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
03-10-2006, 18:59
I think there is almost no reason to give Orcs spears, especially with the new Choppa rules that are just awesome.

As has been noted, Round 1 of combat is often the most important, and having as many S4 attacks as possible that round is key.

warlord hack'a
03-10-2006, 19:03
I have posted on this subject multiple times in different threads (also on da warpath) and my case remains:

get spears!

Why:

with spears you will still have the choppa in your other hand, so if you do get the charge your aforementioned unit will get 11 attacks at S4, not as good as 16 attacks but still not bad. And charging against an enemy that is not going to break in the 1st round you can choose to use psears, you will kill less in round one but more in round 2 and further.

However, if you get charged this means that you will lose some svg orcs as they have only T4 and a 6+ wardsave, so with double choppa's you will loose a lot of attacks. With spears however, you will get loads of attacks which will definitely help you... And with move 4 and frenzy baiting you will get charged a lot (but with WAAAGGHH on the other hand you will be doing more charging..).

Basically it depends on the opponent: the more svg orcs he kan kill on the charge, the better off you are with spears.

Normal orcs however are better off with double choppa (or single choppa + shield) as this will give a 100% increase in their attacks (as opposed to only 50% increase from the svg orcs).

I like the added flexibility of spears and it will make your enemy think twice about charging your svg orcs..

Crazy Harborc
03-10-2006, 19:10
I've never played with or against a greenskin army using Savage Orc....Big Uns a foot OR on boars:D

THANKS for the idea guys. You gave this old fart a good idea. I have the Savage Orc Boar boys mixed in to make a bigger regular boar boys unit. I'll be changing THAT around later today. I may not wait for the better frenzy of 7th Edition armybook. Oh well, time to paint a few tatoos.

Lordsaradain
03-10-2006, 19:12
Why not have a unit of each? Both are good options IMO.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
03-10-2006, 19:23
I may not wait for the better frenzy of 7th Edition armybook.

What do you mean by this?

zodgrim
03-10-2006, 19:24
I have posted on this subject multiple times in different threads (also on da warpath) and my case remains:

get spears!

Why:

with spears you will still have the choppa in your other hand, so if you do get the charge your aforementioned unit will get 11 attacks at S4, not as good as 16 attacks but still not bad. And charging against an enemy that is not going to break in the 1st round you can choose to use psears, you will kill less in round one but more in round 2 and further.

However, if you get charged this means that you will lose some svg orcs as they have only T4 and a 6+ wardsave, so with double choppa's you will loose a lot of attacks. With spears however, you will get loads of attacks which will definitely help you... And with move 4 and frenzy baiting you will get charged a lot (but with WAAAGGHH on the other hand you will be doing more charging..).

Basically it depends on the opponent: the more svg orcs he kan kill on the charge, the better off you are with spears.

Normal orcs however are better off with double choppa (or single choppa + shield) as this will give a 100% increase in their attacks (as opposed to only 50% increase from the svg orcs).

I like the added flexibility of spears and it will make your enemy think twice about charging your svg orcs..

This is exactly why I was thinking of using spears. I figured that with a low save some savage orcs would die if I got charged. And then if I charge, I get only 5 less attacks than armed with the extra choppa. If I had the extra choppa, I get 16 attacks every round if no orcs got killed! Likely, some will get killed. So spears would give more total attacks.

Crazy Harborc
03-10-2006, 21:09
What do you mean by this?

I don't have the 7th Edition Orc and Goblin armybook it's not out yet in my area. The improved 7th Edition frenzy rules now include the mount when the rider is frenzied.

Engra
03-10-2006, 22:59
Hy to everyone,

Is it true that now an orc Big Uns unit can have a magic banner up to 50 pts. and a savage orc big uns not?

zodgrim
03-10-2006, 23:30
Hy to everyone,

Is it true that now an orc Big Uns unit can have a magic banner up to 50 pts. and a savage orc big uns not?

Yes. I have the book. As I read it, an Orc Big 'Un unit can have the magic standard and the Savage Orc Big 'Un unit cannot.

jme
03-10-2006, 23:32
I would say choppas would be the better op, but i love the idea of savage orcs with spears and shields looking like zulus! Even better if you put masks on them!

GrogsnotPowwabomba
03-10-2006, 23:38
I don't have the 7th Edition Orc and Goblin armybook it's not out yet in my area. The improved 7th Edition frenzy rules now include the mount when the rider is frenzied.

But you can still use the 7th Edition Core Rulebook, which I believe is everywhere now, and the improved Frenzy will still apply to 6th Edition Savage Orcs...

Tastyfish
03-10-2006, 23:57
Surely 7 wide Savage orc big uns with choppas are the thing to be using. 18 S5 attacks and 4 S6 ones is going to ruin anyones day. Strong enough to not both so much with ranks and US and rely on the large average width of enemy units.

Spears on a unit that has to charge seems a bad plan though, it will be far easier for the enemy to just force you to charge something capable of taking the first turn (or just fleeing) and then hitting your large unit in the side. With the Big uns, even a flank charge chucks out 6 S5 attacks if they screw up - even one orc left with a reply like that is going to discourage light cav from trying it (as they are on average going to kill less than one)

zodgrim
04-10-2006, 03:16
I never thought about the requirement to charge and getting flanked. Ah! This is why I can't decide!:confused:

Unwise
04-10-2006, 06:36
With spears, I would only get 11 attacks in the first turn (if I charge). But potentially 21 attacks on the second and further turn.
:

My understanding has always been that spears give one attack if you are in the back ranks. This is regardless of how many attacks you have or frenzy etc. I seem to remember it was not in the 6th edition book but in WD and Errata, can't be sure though. I think it was more of an issue when the lizardmen rules were unclear back in the day. In 7th edition have they included that in the description of spears? Or can it be read to say that you simply get to attack as normal?

Gekiganger
04-10-2006, 06:56
It would be nice to take spears as a homage to the savages of old, sadly the 2 choppers outclass them now. Either take a mix, wait for new models with spears or take double choppers.

GreenSeer
04-10-2006, 07:01
My understanding has always been that spears give one attack if you are in the back ranks. This is regardless of how many attacks you have or frenzy etc. I seem to remember it was not in the 6th edition book but in WD and Errata, can't be sure though. I think it was more of an issue when the lizardmen rules were unclear back in the day. In 7th edition have they included that in the description of spears? Or can it be read to say that you simply get to attack as normal?

I always though this rule is only apply to Sarus if not it will create a power spear unit without much draw back (Better than HE Spearman for lesser point??) afterall this rule only surface when sarus are out. Can anyone confirm if this also apply to Frenzy?? if so spear on Savage ORc will no longer be attactive.

warlord hack'a
04-10-2006, 08:14
sadly the 2 choppers outclass them now.

I disagree: in a direct confrontation it depends on who gets the charge, if the double choppa ones get it they will win with +1.5 CR, if the spear armed guys get it they will win with +0.5 CR (using their single choppa, if they use their spears they will lose..). But what do you have to say for yourself when your entire front rank gets wiped out by chaos chosen knights of khorne? Spears will then give you that hard neede +1 extra CR after all the stupid armour saves have been made..

GrogsnotPowwabomba
04-10-2006, 13:35
My understanding has always been that spears give one attack if you are in the back ranks. This is regardless of how many attacks you have or frenzy etc.

No, this was a Lizardment-specific rule. Savage Orcs will get the full number of attacks in the second rank.

warlord hack'a
04-10-2006, 15:17
which is why they rock against foes that do not break on turn one: they have loads of attacks, loads, loads loads

Gekiganger
04-10-2006, 16:17
I disagree: in a direct confrontation it depends on who gets the charge, if the double choppa ones get it they will win with +1.5 CR, if the spear armed guys get it they will win with +0.5 CR (using their single choppa, if they use their spears they will lose..). But what do you have to say for yourself when your entire front rank gets wiped out by chaos chosen knights of khorne? Spears will then give you that hard neede +1 extra CR after all the stupid armour saves have been made..

I changed my mind :p

You make a good point Mr Warlord Hack'a.

laughingman
04-10-2006, 20:22
well, i have played 3 games so far with the rules, i played regular boys, not bigs, with extra choppas, and they did fantastic, so much better then they use too. Havnt tried the spears becuase the 2nd had wepons have done so much better than I ever hoped.

fubukii
04-10-2006, 20:59
Well the spears would be great on bigun boys as they are str4, but on regular boys str4 in the first round of combat is more advantagous. ( i spelled that wrong i think) even then str5 and 3 attacks each at str 5 is no joke for big uns with choppahs.

Chris_Tzeentch
05-10-2006, 12:32
Well the spears would be great on bigun boys as they are str4, but on regular boys str4 in the first round of combat is more advantagous. ( i spelled that wrong i think) even then str5 and 3 attacks each at str 5 is no joke for big uns with choppahs.

I agree. Give the BigUns the army standard with Noggs Banner, and that is a rather silly amount of attacks when charged.

Spears for Savage Orc BigUns, Choppas for Savage Orc RegularUns.

warlord hack'a
05-10-2006, 20:42
I think I can agree on that one, next time however I will try one big block of svg orcs with spears, one big block of svg orc big uns with spears and either a block of normal orcs with double choppa or a small support unit of once again svg orcs but then with double choppa (for the countercharge). will leet you know what happened

KingNothing
06-10-2006, 01:49
definatly go with the choppas, with 1 basic plus AHW plus frenzy they are a mean unit when they have the charge.

zodgrim
06-10-2006, 19:04
Everybody has made excellent points for both weapon options. I wish I was going to have two units of Savage Orcs but I likely only have one. So I figure I am going to go with the spears and make them my Big 'uns when I use them. Thanks for all the input.:D