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Lexmechanic
03-10-2006, 16:38
I have problems finding some rules in the new rulebook.

1) Wizards wearing armour? Didnīt find it. Does this mean you can cast spells while wearing armour? Cool. This makes the loremaster honour for HE much more useful (and Radiant gem of Hoeth useless).

2) Multiwoundmodels like Treekin and Trolls forming units. Do they also need five models to get a rank bonus? Everything I found is that to get a rank bonus you must have a rank of at least five models.

3) Siege? Dropped off I see. Are they going to make a supplement like Cities of Death?

4) Same for Skirmish?

5) Am I correct that there is only three scenarios in the book and people are couraged to invent their own?

These have maybe come up already but I havenīt seen them.

Does anyone know?

Thank You

Rork
03-10-2006, 17:14
I have problems finding some rules in the new rulebook.

1) Wizards wearing armour? Didnīt find it. Does this mean you can cast spells while wearing armour? Cool. This makes the loremaster honour for HE much more useful (and Radiant gem of Hoeth useless).


Check the magic items section (Under "magic armour"). You can only buy magic armour if you can take mundane armour.



2) Multiwoundmodels like Treekin and Trolls forming units. Do they also need five models to get a rank bonus? Everything I found is that to get a rank bonus you must have a rank of at least five models.


Yes. Five models are five models, no matter what - it does not work in terms of US (because it would say "US5").



3) Siege? Dropped off I see. Are they going to make a supplement like Cities of Death?

4) Same for Skirmish?


Who knows? It's possible.



5) Am I correct that there is only three scenarios in the book and people are couraged to invent their own?


Well, if you can find any more scenarios in the rulebook... ;) You can always make your own scenarios, as long as your opponent agrees to play it too.

Crazy Harborc
03-10-2006, 17:31
I (last week) down-loaded the updated/7th edition version of the rules for 1 to 500 point games. It was on the GW site (UK or USA).

Don't forget you do need two lines of 5 or more models each in the unit, to get the rank bonus;)

ZomboCom
03-10-2006, 18:27
1) Wizards wearing armour? Didnīt find it. Does this mean you can cast spells while wearing armour? Cool. This makes the loremaster honour for HE much more useful (and Radiant gem of Hoeth useless).


I think you'll find that the rules for loremaster specify that the caster cannot cast while wearing armour.



2) Multiwoundmodels like Treekin and Trolls forming units. Do they also need five models to get a rank bonus? Everything I found is that to get a rank bonus you must have a rank of at least five models.


They need to be 5 wide, the same as anything else.



3) Siege? Dropped off I see. Are they going to make a supplement like Cities of Death?

4) Same for Skirmish?


Apparently, yes. Other rumours suggest expansions for naval battles as well.



5) Am I correct that there is only three scenarios in the book and people are couraged to invent their own?


There are no longer any scenarios in the book, just pitched battle, which has been rolled into the standard rules rather than a seperate scenario.

Lexmechanic
04-10-2006, 12:21
OK

My bad I didnīt see that phrase about magic armour

Now those trolls and such really suck when you canīt take command and not even get the rank bonus. Maybe as support units they can still be useful.

Nasty they dropped siege and skirmish. I really liked siege.
Seems like time for the --------> HOUSE RULES

Griefbringer
04-10-2006, 12:43
Well, you can still get rank bonus from trolls - just field them units of 10-20.

As for the sieges and skirmish, you can still pretty much use the ones from 6th edition rulebook.

Milgram
04-10-2006, 13:53
Now those trolls and such really suck when you canīt take command and not even get the rank bonus. Maybe as support units they can still be useful.

you had a troll unit of more than 6 trolls? seriously? rank bonus +3 and the bsb inside? I mean... we are talking about an unit of at least 400 points for a scr of 1 (us 24 might bring them scr 2) and an ld of 4.

btw: the new o&g trolls only cost 40 points, so an unit of 10 costs the same as a unit of 8 before... allthough I'm not sure what the troll unit size limit is.

mageith
04-10-2006, 14:12
There are no longer any scenarios in the book, just pitched battle, which has been rolled into the standard rules rather than a seperate scenario.
There are three scenarios in the bigger book. (248)

And what you call pitched battle is now just "PLAYING THE GAME" Page 2-3. Possibly a deliberate tweak at Wood Elves and a concession to the way most players were, well, playing the game.

There are also several types of Special Terrain (100-101) that adds strategic locations to the game.

ZomboCom
04-10-2006, 16:26
And what you call pitched battle is now just "PLAYING THE GAME" Page 2-3. Possibly a deliberate tweak at Wood Elves and a concession to the way most players were, well, playing the game.


That's what I thought, until I looked closer and found a sentance that says that the "playing the game" scenario is also known as a Pitched Battle, so wood elves do get their wood.

Crazy Harborc
05-10-2006, 00:53
OK

My bad I didnīt see that phrase about magic armour

Now those trolls and such really suck when you canīt take command and not even get the rank bonus. Maybe as support units they can still be useful.

Nasty they dropped siege and skirmish. I really liked siege.
Seems like time for the --------> HOUSE RULES


Like Griefbringer said...just use the 6th edition rules for Siege and or Skirmish games. If you and your opponent find rules/stats/whatever that are different you call do a die roll, flip a coin, etc.

Check out the new rules for fighting in buildings;)

TheWarSmith
05-10-2006, 01:23
Trolls are monster units, which rely on kills for their combat resolution, not "SCR" or static combat resolution(ranks, banner, outnumber). Taking 8 trolls even using 4 wide ranks in 7th would be 320 points minimum.

mageith
05-10-2006, 02:21
That's what I thought, until I looked closer and found a sentance that says that the "playing the game" scenario is also known as a Pitched Battle, so wood elves do get their wood.
Page 249? Under Scenarios? "When you want to do something different."

"The standard game of Warhammer, also known as a Pitched Battle, is described at the beginning of the rule book."

The important thing though is that in the beginning of the rule book there's no mention of it being a pitched battle.

Tough Luck Wood Elves.

ZomboCom
05-10-2006, 10:56
Page 249? Under Scenarios? "When you want to do something different."

"The standard game of Warhammer, also known as a Pitched Battle, is described at the beginning of the rule book."

The important thing though is that in the beginning of the rule book there's no mention of it being a pitched battle.

Tough Luck Wood Elves.

Errr, what? You just quoted it yourself.

"The standard game of Warhammer, also known as a Pitched Battle, is described at the beginning of the rule book."

That means that all normal games are Pitched Battles (note the capitalisation), and wood elves DO get their wood. What possible reasoning do you have otherwise? Who cares where in the book it's written?

If the standard game, as described at the start of the book, is a Pitched Battle, then the wood elves must get their free wood in a standard game.

ZomboCom
05-10-2006, 10:58
Now those trolls and such really suck when you canīt take command and not even get the rank bonus. Maybe as support units they can still be useful.


Why would you ever bother paying for rank bonus on trolls? If they are going to win combat it's through kills, not ranks.

The main benefit of trolls now is that the unti size is 1+, and a single 40 pt troll makes actually quite a nice redirector.

mageith
05-10-2006, 14:11
Errr, what? You just quoted it yourself.

"The standard game of Warhammer, also known as a Pitched Battle, is described at the beginning of the rule book."

That means that all normal games are Pitched Battles (note the capitalisation), and wood elves DO get their wood. What possible reasoning do you have otherwise? Who cares where in the book it's written?

If the standard game, as described at the start of the book, is a Pitched Battle, then the wood elves must get their free wood in a standard game.
Like I said, I think there was a deliberate and back-handed decision by GW to limit the ability of Wood Elves to get their free forest. The guy who wrote in the back of the book just didn't get the message or the editor didn't catch it. An off-hand comment isn't a rule, IMO. You do what you want.

The section is way past the rules of the game, it's under The Warhammer Hobby, after painting, after Alternative setups and part of the Scenarios description. I don't think it has the weight of a rule, it's just a comment.

A problem with back-handed rule changes is that they aren't always clear and this comment I quoted on page 248 (not even in the little rulebook is it?) makes it very unclear. But I'm not sure it would have been clear even if the off-hand comment on page 248 didn't exist.

If GW wanted to make it clear that the standard game was a Pitched Battle they should have said it in the open words "Presented here is a standard method for playing a battle, designed to produce and fair and exciting game." (2)

GW moved PLAYING THE GAME into the main rules. In the last edition, ALL battles were scenarios and the first scenario was clearly a Pitched Battle. People almost universially ignored the requirement to roll for scenario.

In the new rules, the GAME is clearly part of the main rules and extremely early in it. In another forum I asked a question about Terrain Tactics (Part 1 and 3) on page 2-3. Most posters have decided to not bother with the the setup rules (they consider them suggestions and optional).

Like I said, you do want you want, it looks like most everyone else is too when it comes actually PLAYING THE GAME (page 2, the heading).

Mage Ith

ZomboCom
05-10-2006, 14:49
Like I said, I think there was a deliberate and back-handed decision by GW to limit the ability of Wood Elves to get their free forest. The guy who wrote in the back of the book just didn't get the message or the editor didn't catch it. An off-hand comment isn't a rule, IMO. You do what you want.

The section is way past the rules of the game, it's under The Warhammer Hobby, after painting, after Alternative setups and part of the Scenarios description. I don't think it has the weight of a rule, it's just a comment.

It's capitalised, it's very clear and it's in the rule book, under a section about different scenarios used when playing the game.

To me that seems the perfect place to put it. When using any other scenario, wood elves don't get the wood. They make it very clear that when not playing a scenario, you are playing a normal game, also known as a Pitched Battle. If it's a pitched battle then all the rules for a pitched battle apply, including the wood elf free wood.

BTW I'm not a wood elf player, and I hate the free wood rule, but it's there, and pretty clear. You have no evidence at all that GW intend the wood elves not to get the free wood. The rules clearly say that the normal game is called a Pitched Battle, so they get their wood.

Your argument doesn't stand up to any scrutiny I'm afraid. The rules are very clear.