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GAWD
10-10-2006, 18:45
Okay,

We've been musing (probably more like moaning) about how the new book is going to affect gobbo armies, so here's my first stab at what an all gobbo list could like in 7th ed. I'm not 100% sure on points values, as the book I have access to is at my FLGS, and I just jotted down some quick notes.

Characters:
Goblin Warboss w/assorted weapons & armor, riding a wolf chariot
Goblin Big Boss BSB w/the ragedy red banner, riding a wolf chariot

(Gobbo armies need a BSB and ld.8 ... too unreliable otherwise; hence both of them get extra protection and hitting power from the chariots. The red banner was better in the last edition w/a blanket +1 ld, but rerolling panic will have to do. The Chariots are also here to free up space in specials. I think Grom & Nibbla might be the best option, though.)

Shaman lv. 2 w/horn, ring
Shaman lv. 2 w/pipes, beatdown staff :)

(These two will need to get off the horn & pipe combo early. Then they need to be able to cast just enough to get the enemy to let the lv. 5 horn go off for the +1/-1 to leadership. Needless to say, the horn is going to be for Gobbo armies what the Book of Arkhan is for VC)

Core:
30-40 Goblins w/la, sh, full command
30 NGs w/2 fanatics & mus.
30 NGs w/2 fanatics & mus.
30 NGs w/2 fanatics & mus.

(The fighting core of the army. I can't justify spending more than 3 pts a model per gobbo, so I didn't include nets for the NGs. That said, the common goblins come in at 4 pts each b/c otherwise they're toast.)

5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 spider riders & mus (fast cav, ignore terrain, poison, nuff said)
5 spider riders & mus (fast cav, ignore terrain, poison, nuff said)
3 Snot bases (cheap speed bumps, redirection for gobbo blocks)
3 Snot bases (cheap speed bumps, redirection for gobbo blocks)
3 Snot bases (cheap speed bumps, redirection for gobbo blocks)

Special:
2 Spear Chuckas
1 Rock Lobba

(firepower, not overloading on the chuckas)

Squig herd 25 models
10 Squig Hoppers

(cheap heavy hitters)

Rare:
Doom Diver (more firepower)
2 Snot Pump Wagons (mess cleanup)

Again, I'm not sure about the points for this stuff, but I think this will fit into ~2250 pts (probably more). Maybe someone w/a book can check my math. As you can see, this army isn't as hordey as some of the better, current Gobbo builds. Not going lv. 4 w/magic frees up points & gets you better leadership. This was the key to doing really well w/the Gobbos last edition, and I don't think this will change. No big things (giants & trolls) means more hording of the enemy, but you're softer.

All in all, once I got pen to paper, I'm not quite as dubious. Although I must say that the army is much smaller than last editions.

Thoughts.

Rathstar
10-10-2006, 23:48
Hi,

Not too much experience with gobbos, but it looks like you have 5 special choices (as goblin chariots are 1 per special choice now):
2 Spear Chukkas
Chariot
Chariot
Rock Lobba
Squig herd

I would drop one of the character chariots and put the character in the common goblin unit.

Rathstar

GAWD
11-10-2006, 01:55
According to the new book, O&G characters can now purchase chariots like any other mount (wolf, boar, spider, squig, wyvern, etc...). So by purchasing them as mounts, I can squeeze in the special choices I've listed and still have chariots.

Dranthar
25-10-2006, 08:14
Just a few comments, but bear with me since I'm an O&G n00b. Like probably many others I've been inspired by the skull pass box to start an all-goblin army. 4 Skull pass goblin sets and numerous purchases later I'm looking at about 2500 points of goblin goodness. :rolleyes:

Anyway, here's what I think based on the few games I've played so far;

Sticking the bosses on the chariots to save spec slots are a good idea, but I'm reluctant to do that until I'm sure GW won't eliminate that 'loophole' with a FAQ. In the meantime, I'd say that wolves are a good alternative, and has the added advantage of being able to hide your characters in your infantry blocks.

From memory, I think both of your shamans have more than 50pts in magic items. BTW, what's the beatdown staff, because if it's the staff of sneaky stealing then that's your shamans entire magic alotment right there.

I was going to write about the pros/cons of selecting the horn over other gear but I'm going to have to leave that for another discussion on how to equip goblin characters in general. :rolleyes:

For the points, I think night goblins with nets are actually really good. At 'proper' unit sizes they're less than 1pt per model, yet they essentially give your gobbos +1T and a 4+ armour save (unless facing S3, in which case you can laugh).

With the new rules, I've found that units of 5 wolf/spider riders just doesn't cut it. It's far too easy to cut those units down to two models before or during combat, in which case you lose the ability to deny ranks and get that flank bonus, making them more of a liability than an advantage.
Right now I'm trying units of 8 with a musician for 110 pts. It's more costly but at least thay can reliably threaten flanks now.

Why take snotlings in units of 3? They take up more room and you know they're going to die/run away anyway, so why waste the points?

25 model squig herds? I figured with the new rules for squigs herds going wild that you're better off taking 10 and using them as a suicide unit. But at 25 I guess they're more of a main line infantry block. I dunno, personally I think I'd rather keep them smallish and use them to support the infantry blocks (esp. vs. undead).

That's about it for me.

Avian
25-10-2006, 11:13
Both the Horn and the Ring are Enchanted items, thus you cannot take both on the same Shaman. And in any case they cost 60 pts in total.

The Pipes and the Staff (whichever staff this is) also come to more than 50 pts in total.

druchii
25-10-2006, 15:57
Okay,

We've been musing (probably more like moaning) about how the new book is going to affect gobbo armies, so here's my first stab at what an all gobbo list could like in 7th ed. I'm not 100% sure on points values, as the book I have access to is at my FLGS, and I just jotted down some quick notes.

Characters:
Goblin Warboss w/assorted weapons & armor, riding a wolf chariot
Goblin Big Boss BSB w/the ragedy red banner, riding a wolf chariot

(Gobbo armies need a BSB and ld.8 ... too unreliable otherwise; hence both of them get extra protection and hitting power from the chariots. The red banner was better in the last edition w/a blanket +1 ld, but rerolling panic will have to do. The Chariots are also here to free up space in specials. I think Grom & Nibbla might be the best option, though.)

Shaman lv. 2 w/horn, ring
Shaman lv. 2 w/pipes, beatdown staff :)

(These two will need to get off the horn & pipe combo early. Then they need to be able to cast just enough to get the enemy to let the lv. 5 horn go off for the +1/-1 to leadership. Needless to say, the horn is going to be for Gobbo armies what the Book of Arkhan is for VC)

Core:
30-40 Goblins w/la, sh, full command
30 NGs w/2 fanatics & mus.
30 NGs w/2 fanatics & mus.
30 NGs w/2 fanatics & mus.

(The fighting core of the army. I can't justify spending more than 3 pts a model per gobbo, so I didn't include nets for the NGs. That said, the common goblins come in at 4 pts each b/c otherwise they're toast.)

5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 wolf riders w/spears & mus (fast cav, 9" move, nuff said)
5 spider riders & mus (fast cav, ignore terrain, poison, nuff said)
5 spider riders & mus (fast cav, ignore terrain, poison, nuff said)
3 Snot bases (cheap speed bumps, redirection for gobbo blocks)
3 Snot bases (cheap speed bumps, redirection for gobbo blocks)
3 Snot bases (cheap speed bumps, redirection for gobbo blocks)

Special:
2 Spear Chuckas
1 Rock Lobba

(firepower, not overloading on the chuckas)

Squig herd 25 models
10 Squig Hoppers

(cheap heavy hitters)

Rare:
Doom Diver (more firepower)
2 Snot Pump Wagons (mess cleanup)

Again, I'm not sure about the points for this stuff, but I think this will fit into ~2250 pts (probably more). Maybe someone w/a book can check my math. As you can see, this army isn't as hordey as some of the better, current Gobbo builds. Not going lv. 4 w/magic frees up points & gets you better leadership. This was the key to doing really well w/the Gobbos last edition, and I don't think this will change. No big things (giants & trolls) means more hording of the enemy, but you're softer.

All in all, once I got pen to paper, I'm not quite as dubious. Although I must say that the army is much smaller than last editions.

Thoughts.

Hey joey :D

I like the initial looks of the list. A few things concern me,though.

What are you going to use to bust up big stuff? It seems like alot of your ideas revolve around getting units stuck in with the large blocks of NGs, and then hitting 'em with the fast cav in the side. After of course, the fanatics do some work.

What I mean is: Besides your chariots, your warmachines, squigs and fanatics, the army doesn't have too many units that can reliably "threaten" the enemy.

You lack high S attacks (besides the warmachines and chariots) and tough units. When/if someone deals with your chariots and squigs (assuming they don't whack the warmachines with fliers, etc.) you're really looking at just fanatics.

While I've always dug large armies of large ranked units, I just think they work alot better when you throw in some "heavy" units. While this might be a sort of issue with NGs (can't honestly say, haven't reviewed the odl book in years, and I haven't seen the new one )I wonder if something like a giant, some trolls, or even(gasp!) orcs could remedy this.

d

GAWD
25-10-2006, 20:48
Okay, well I've gotten the book, and it's time for the Red Grot's Goblin Liberation Army (GLA) to get to work again. This GLA list is probably the hardest hitting and most balanced version I cooked up (the only prohibition I have for the army's fluff is that nothing bigger than a Goblin is allowed in the list)

Characters:
The Red Grot (Goblin Warboss): la, spiteful shield, amulet of procteyness, tricksey trinket, sneaky skewer, on chariot

Smengles (Goblin Big Boss): BSB, Raggedy Red Banner, on chariot

(Chariots give them better mobility and durability, except against heavy warmachines. I also gave them a characterful assortment of Gobbo items; yes despite better combos w/other things.)

Stalli (NG Shaman): lv.2 w/horn

Krushi (NG Shaman): lv. 2 w/nibbla's itty ring, 3 shrooms

(I couldn't fit the pipes in too w/out ditching the Red Banner and giving the BSB the horn. The pipes seemed too hit n miss to leave the leadership boost from the Red Banner at home)

Core:
30 Goblins w/hw, la, shield, fc

30 NG w/hw, shield, 2 fanatics

30 NG w/hw, shield, 2 fanatics

30 NG w/hw, shield, 2 fanatics

(The main fighting blocks. Theres not command for the NGs b/c there's not enough room and b/c I don't feel like handing 100 pts to my opponent every time the units decide to break, which lets face it ... will be frequently)

4 x 5 Wolf Riders w/spears, mus

2 x 5 Spider Riders w/spears, mus

(These guys are the swiss army knives of the list. They help in hth. They hunt warmachines and mages. They march block. They go really fast.)

Special:
2 Spear Chuckas
Rock Lobba

(Some long range hitting power; nothing exploitative here, just some complementary shooting)

25 strong squig herd
10 squig hoppers

(These are the shock troops of the list, dishing out a yummy amount of WS 4 S 5 attacks. In my all out NG list I'm going to include two units of each)

Rare:
Doom Diver (more shooting power)
2 Snotling Pump Wagons (eh ... gotta have some Snotlings, they're fighting for their freedom too :) )

Notes: This army is much smaller than similar lists from 6th ed. I dropped the Snotling units from the earlier list b/c I didn't have room. I kept the fast cav units small b/c I need them to swarm and hit in waves, especially against enemy war machines. The list is not a "hard" list by any stretch of the imagination. It has a lot of different things and a lot of big units that can give me a lot of tactical flexibility in a game. Dealing w/big nasties has always been a weakness for Goblin armies. In fact in 6th ed, the only armies my GLA frequently lost to were Minnos. The GLA had AT LEAST an even record against everything else, yes even undead. The secret to making the list work is LEADERSHIP. If everything goes well in the magic phase, my horde will be running around w/leadership 9 in the general's range and the enemy will be at -1 leadership. In short, what I'm trying to do is a characterful (i.e. not like Edwin's lists) Gobbo horde that relies on tactics to win more than big stuff and way too unpredictable magic.

BTW: I'm going to start a new thread on translating 6th ed lists into 7th ed lists. I think the results will surprise people.

Tutore
26-10-2006, 02:27
2 spear chuckas count as a single special choice.