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Voronwe[MQ]
12-10-2006, 16:30
In White Dwarf nr. 317 it stood in the Vostroyan background article that 'unlike most Guard regiments which are raised en masse, the Vostroyans reinforces their regiments regurlary so that a steady flow of recruits can arrive and let the veterans train them, thus creating an unbroken chain that runs back through history to the Horus Heresy in every regiment: This can be a little hard to achieve sometimes.'

First of all: Realistically (and according to Cities of Death where a single Vostroyan regiment fortified themselves in a city on Nimbosa and got slauhgtered by a Vior'la Tau commander) there is a lot of regiments with missing 'links' in their 'chains through history' of tradition, so this we approaches as mythology; there is a core of truth in it, but we shall not take it literally.

Then we must consider the huge implications: The aspect of Vostroyan regurlar reinforcements. I leave it to you to discuss the possibilities, and I'll update the discussion thread with a poll soon, but I should say that it indicates a fleet (and a hell lot of contacts, charters, contracts in most Segmentae...) of at least two hundred and fifty transport ships that ships supplies, fuel, munitions and recruits to battle zones where several Vostroyan regiments fight (which they logically must do to allow such a fleet to exist for its intended purpose). This also must mean that the Techtriarcs undertakes campaigns on Vostroya of search for psykers to be sent with the Black Ships and return as 'branded for Vostroya' (metaphorically) Astropaths that follows Vostroyan battlegroups and leaves a track for reinforcments to catch up.

And let us not assume that it was a deliberate, fatal mistake of Games Workshop to drive a Ultramarine-esque (refering to discussion of warp travel time delays) feel home thoroughly.

Voronwe

ryng_sting
12-10-2006, 18:55
They reinforce when possible. They don't shuttle out reinforcements to every army all over the Imperium, for obvious reasons. How they'll manage now Medusa V has been destroyed will be interesting.

CELS
12-10-2006, 19:27
Agreed. And yes, it's quite similar to what Space Marine Chapters do, but that doesn't mean that the Flesh Tearers sent a constant supply of scouts to Armageddon during its third war ;)

Axel
12-10-2006, 21:05
I agree with the other answers. The main difference to "usual" regiments will be that Vostroyans are not used up, melted together or dissolved (after a war) but will get Vostroyan reinforments whenever possible, eg. when the conflict is over or they are withdrawn. Of course we will have MANY regiments that die to the last man, but on the whole there will be several thousand Vostroyan regiments around (mind: every firstborn joins them, which will be several hundred million) who will probably transfer internally whenever possible, so they will have a more generalized corps d`esprit then most other regiments.

Nazguire
13-10-2006, 01:54
They reinforce when possible. They don't shuttle out reinforcements to every army all over the Imperium, for obvious reasons. How they'll manage now Medusa V has been destroyed will be interesting.

They'll manage fine. Medusa V wasn't their homeworld so no need to worry about recruitment being cut off. There wasn't that many regiments of Vostroyans down there to begin with (only real notable one was the regiment that belonged to Graf Harazahn)

Mechanicus
13-10-2006, 16:34
In White Dwarf nr. 317 it stood in the Vostroyan background article that 'unlike most Guard regiments which are raised en masse, the Vostroyans reinforces their regiments regurlary so that a steady flow of recruits can arrive and let the veterans train them, thus creating an unbroken chain that runs back through history to the Horus Heresy in every regiment: This can be a little hard to achieve sometimes.'

First of all: Realistically (and according to Cities of Death where a single Vostroyan regiment fortified themselves in a city on Nimbosa and got slauhgtered by a Vior'la Tau commander) there is a lot of regiments with missing 'links' in their 'chains through history' of tradition, so this we approaches as mythology; there is a core of truth in it, but we shall not take it literally.

Then we must consider the huge implications: The aspect of Vostroyan regurlar reinforcements. I leave it to you to discuss the possibilities, and I'll update the discussion thread with a poll soon, but I should say that it indicates a fleet (and a hell lot of contacts, charters, contracts in most Segmentae...) of at least two hundred and fifty transport ships that ships supplies, fuel, munitions and recruits to battle zones where several Vostroyan regiments fight (which they logically must do to allow such a fleet to exist for its intended purpose). This also must mean that the Techtriarcs undertakes campaigns on Vostroya of search for psykers to be sent with the Black Ships and return as 'branded for Vostroya' (metaphorically) Astropaths that follows Vostroyan battlegroups and leaves a track for reinforcments to catch up.

And let us not assume that it was a deliberate, fatal mistake of Games Workshop to drive a Ultramarine-esque (refering to discussion of warp travel time delays) feel home thoroughly.

That's certainly different to what other planets do for their regiments; For example, Valhallans send their regiments back to Valhalla every 5 years to get new recruits.
To organise that would take a hell of a lot of manpower, and considering they have over 9 billion people on Vostroya, assuming a quarter have at least one kid each, that's 2 and a quarter billion recruits each generation, enough to replace (assuming 8000 men a regiment) 281,250 regiments every 30/40 years or so.
This is just for one planet. Cadia, having a population of only around 850 million from what I can find, given the fact at least 1 in 10 men are in the Cadian Interior Guard, they would have 85 million troops for that alone, enough to supply (assuming 8000 men per regiment), 10,625 regiments. In comparison, not alot for one of the most fortified worlds in the Imperium. Even if half of the population joined regiments, you'd still only have 53,125 regiments worth.

This seems to me to imply that Vostroya would need either alot of logistics divisions, or perhaps the Mechanicus aids it. After all, it officially swore dedication to the Machine God during the Age of Strife, and is ruled by a joint committee of Mechanicus administrators and Imperial Government officials. not to mention that the Vostroyans have more bionics than alot of Imperial regiments, suggesting close links to the Mechanicus. The Mechanicus has alot of roles for logistics, possibly even better than some in the Adminstratum (Calculus Logi, Logisticians, Logi, Magi Logis, etc).

Although the Mechanicus is *supposed* to have no transports (And yet they must have at least some transport capability. Look at Soul Drinker and Dark Adeptus. Both show Tech-Guard and (in Soul Drinker) an Ordinati being transported on Mechanicus ships, and I'm not even mentioning Explorator fleets, who definitely have troops, or the fact they have 6 Navigator houses of their own. Maybe it's considered more of a guideline than a rule by the Mechanicus...), if accompanied by Imperial Navy staff, I believe the Administratum would accept it.

Voronwe[MQ]
13-10-2006, 16:44
I believe too that they would accept it.
Six navigator houses of their own? Well, it's logical. My like for the Adeptus Mechanicus has increased one grade.

Mechanicus
13-10-2006, 17:10
Presented as part of the Treaty of Mars from the Emperor. I presume they still have them; after all, any organisation that arrogant would find ways around not being allowed to transport their own troops...

The Ape
13-10-2006, 23:01
Would they not have lost some when the AM split during the Heresy?

(navigator houses i mean, not transports)

Mechanicus
14-10-2006, 09:10
At the moment, we don't know. It's possible that it's in HH Vol 4, but I don't have that yet.

They may have lost one, two or even three, or perhaps the Dark Mechanicus just took the ships with navigators are ran. I don't know.

Voronwe[MQ]
14-10-2006, 12:09
I believe they lost not a whole navigator house, but perhaps 70% of one, 45% of another, 15% of a third and so on.

CELS
14-10-2006, 12:26
I wouldn't think so, actually. Navigator Houses seem to be very loyal to their own kin. Having 15% of a Navigator House switch allegiance seems very unlikely. I'd say that you either corrupt the entire House or none at all.

Another possibility might be Horus gaining control of a number of Navigator Houses during the Heresy. If he did this, any Mechanicus traitors wouldn't depend on the Navigator Houses loyal to the Cult Mechanicus and the Emperor, but would go to Horus for the navigators they needed.

10th clancannach rangers
14-10-2006, 14:16
Cadia, having a population of only around 850 million

Why has Cadia got such a tiny population? That's less than China!

Voronwe[MQ]
14-10-2006, 15:24
Hm, perhaps that's right, but they don't appear to be as coherent as they wants themselves to look for the outer world - after all, they too have their social dynamics, pecking orders, hierarchies and especially intrigues, and not just towards other houses or disfavoured factions, so it is only logical if this is the case - and Mechanicus Navigator houses would be 'lesser' loyal to their house and more have a (rational?) feel of 'belonging to'/be part of this group of, as an example, Magos from the Collegia Archeologis (it should exist in future 'fluff', as it is not only just stone-transformed fossils and geological layers that's archeology..) and these ones from the Biologis and the ship they've chartered, or perhaps more loosely knot-together family bounds, though not family in the sense of grandfathers, grandmothers, siblings or so, that might be somewhat important to them, but not exaggeratedly so, as working for the Adeptus Mechanicus tends to make you more (albeit ritualised...) pragmatic and logical, as well as stoic.

And Cadia is a prety fertile world, have even big neighbours, have enormous strategical importance...

Mechanicus
14-10-2006, 18:44
Why has Cadia got such a tiny population? That's less than China!
I'm not sure, but it might be that most of it's population is off-world most of the time.


Hm, perhaps that's right, but they don't appear to be as coherent as they wants themselves to look for the outer world - after all, they too have their social dynamics, pecking orders, hierarchies and especially intrigues, and not just towards other houses or disfavoured factions, so it is only logical if this is the case - and Mechanicus Navigator houses would be 'lesser' loyal to their house and more have a (rational?) feel of 'belonging to'/be part of this group of, as an example, Magos from the Collegia Archeologis (it should exist in future 'fluff', as it is not only just stone-transformed fossils and geological layers that's archeology..) and these ones from the Biologis and the ship they've chartered, or perhaps more loosely knot-together family bounds, though not family in the sense of grandfathers, grandmothers, siblings or so, that might be somewhat important to them, but not exaggeratedly so, as working for the Adeptus Mechanicus tends to make you more (albeit ritualised...) pragmatic and logical, as well as stoic.
About the archeology comment; there's two ways to look at it:

There are two examples of the Explorator Archaeos known: One, a letter from an Explorator whose rank was displayed as: "Explorator (Archaeos)" and another which was in the pre-armada BFG Necron fleet list, which mentioned: "[...] the dusty offices of the Explorator Archaeos."

Either the Explorators Archaeos are a division of the Explorators, or the Explorators (Because they are recruited from all colleges) keep their previous specialisation in their official rank (So there could be an Explorator (Physic), an Explorator (Genetus), etc).

So it's either the Collegia/Divisio Archaeos, or the Explorators Archaeos.

Voronwe[MQ]
14-10-2006, 19:44
That sounds very likely. Achaeos would be for individual rank, Archaelogis for the whole profession? I believe that Archaeos would not be Explorator-specific at all, as there is much to be discovered in (or shall I say under?) Imperial domains, but even though it would be slightly smaller than mediocre-sized (glancing estimation) Collegia, the Archaeos might very well stand for a relatively huge part of Explorators, as extremly interesting, exotic xenos fossils and archaeotech would be part of their field of profession, and as Explorators they have the chance to discover things outside Imperial dominion.
Collegia Archaeos, I'd think.

Gensuke626
14-10-2006, 23:36
I'm not sure, but it might be that most of it's population is off-world most of the time.


Maybe it's that combined with a low birth rate (You never know what the eye really does to cadians) and a high deathrate (Cadians are deployed everywhere...plue I'm sure there are alot of Chaos Kill teams sent to Cadia...

Outlaw289
15-10-2006, 03:53
Why has Cadia got such a tiny population? That's less than China!

Think of it this way:

Why does a city have more people than a military base?

Its because Cadians get everything they need from off-world. Cadia is a military world, and its entire population is dedicated to manning forts, stocking ammo, and training. They have no need for superfluous farmers and miners and the like, and consequently have a population of just what they need: Soldiers