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View Full Version : Does a chaos hell cannon with no crew give up all it's VPs?



Kalamadea
12-10-2006, 21:07
I was reading through the war machine section of the book and it says a warmachine that has lost all of it's crew gives up all of it's victory points. Hellcannon rules state that it is treated as a war machine. Is there some other rule or FAQ that keeps the hellcannon from giving up it's VPs just becuase the dwarves are dead? Half the point of the thing is to run rampage through the enemy army like a monster, and 270+gifts is a heck of a lot of VPs to give up just for the crew being dead.

Also, a hellcannon is a Large Target. Enemy shooting may target the hellcannon over other troops becuase they can draw LOS to a large target even over intervening models. The dwarves, however, are not Large Targets. Do you still randomize hits, even though they are out of LOS, or is the "unit" in LOS and therefore eligible to be hit?

Festus
12-10-2006, 21:30
Hi

Yes to both:

You give up all VP for a total crew loss, as it is a Warmachine, and the únit can be shot at as if a large target. Monsters and their handlers set a precedence here.

Festus

Ganymede
12-10-2006, 22:45
Q: How are Victory Points worked out for the Hellcannon?

A: Even though the Hellcannon is a war machine, for such an expensive model that can continue to cause damage after its crew has been destroyed (albeit sometimes to its own side), we decided that Victory Points should be awarded in a slightly different way than normal. If all the crew are destroyed, the enemy gets half the Victory Points for the unit. If the Hellcannon itself is destroyed, then the enemy gets the full Victory Points for the unit, even if the crew are still living.

Festus
13-10-2006, 07:01
Hi

Where does that come from?
Not from the Hellcannon Rules: http://stormofchaos.uk.games-workshop.com/book/assets/SoC_archaons_horde.pdf

but from the SoC Q&A, a hard to find little gem: http://stormofchaos.uk.games-workshop.com/help/assets/SoC_QA.pdf :(
I daresay you will have problems applying this ruling after 7th came out. The guys are still debating if 6th ed FAQs are still viable and it obviously is against any attempt at RAW.

Greetings
Festus

Gorbad Ironclaw
13-10-2006, 07:22
I always though the real question is, can you spike the damn thing? :p

Revlid
13-10-2006, 07:30
That ruling makes far more sense, is more balanced (I lose a unit of furies killing your three Chaos Dwarfs. 270 VP for me!) and is obliviously the intent. Considering that SoC FAQ is for a specific supplement, I'd certainly use the FAQed rules.

Ganymede
13-10-2006, 17:07
Hi

Where does that come from?
Not from the Hellcannon Rules: http://stormofchaos.uk.games-workshop.com/book/assets/SoC_archaons_horde.pdf

but from the SoC Q&A, a hard to find little gem: http://stormofchaos.uk.games-workshop.com/help/assets/SoC_QA.pdf :(
I daresay you will have problems applying this ruling after 7th came out. The guys are still debating if 6th ed FAQs are still viable and it obviously is against any attempt at RAW.

Greetings
Festus


At the place you get it, http://stormofchaos.uk.games-workshop.com/hobby/armies/default.htm , It is called an Official Games Dvelopment Q & A.

I imagine it would be pretty damn easy to apply this ruling, and I'd imagine it would go a little something... like this.

Player One: I wonder how the Hellcannon rules work for victory point purposes?

Player Two: Well I have a Q&A that handles this very situation, let's check it out.

Player One: Sweet!

TheWarSmith
13-10-2006, 17:49
good question about spiking it. Spirit of the game would say no, but RAW say yes.

Ganymede
13-10-2006, 17:53
According to page 3 of our new rulebook, RAW would say no.

Festus
13-10-2006, 18:07
Ganymede - you will have to decide: RAW or not RAW. BTW, RAW says that the Hellcannon gives all VP if the crew are dead (p.102 of our new Rulebook ;) )

RAW even makes it so that the Hellcannon has WS0 and will be hit automatically :D

And why would RAW disallow spiking the Hellcannon?

Festus

Baindread
13-10-2006, 18:14
RAW?

Spike?

Wtf?

Ganymede
13-10-2006, 18:21
Ganymede - you will have to decide: RAW or not RAW. BTW, RAW says that the Hellcannon gives all VP if the crew are dead (p.102 of our new Rulebook ;) )

RAW even makes it so that the Hellcannon has WS0 and will be hit automatically :D

Festus


Are you bored or something? What exactly are you trying to say?

Revlid
13-10-2006, 18:21
RAW means something like "Read as Written". It's essentially a poor excuse to ignore the spirit of the game and designer's intent.

Spiking means, I assume, using a flying unit or other fast unit to wipe out the crew of a warmachine. That's all I can think of.


RAW even makes it so that the Hellcannon has WS0 and will be hit automatically

Which is just another reason why the RAW interpretation is clearly incorrect.

Festus
13-10-2006, 18:34
Hi

RAW: Rules as written, GW's lame attempt to cancel errata and FAQs.

spiking: Destroying a Warmachine, after all crew are dead, the enemy may spike the machine....


edit: Ganymede: I am not bored, I just want to point out that the rules for the Hellcannon are a mess, as they contradict the BRB in various places and instances.

Revlid
13-10-2006, 18:53
Hi
edit: Ganymede: I am not bored, I just want to point out that the rules for the Hellcannon are a mess, as they contradict the BRB in various places and instances.

Really? I find it fairly obvious what all the rules mean. The only contradictions are the WS (which is simply a changed profile, and not much to take issue with), and the Victory Points issue, which was FAQ'ed rather sensibly a couple of months after the realease of the rules.

Wintermute
13-10-2006, 19:00
Revlid comments such as these






Are not welcome on WarSeer.

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition

Festus
13-10-2006, 19:02
Hi
Actually its fairly obvious what all the rules mean.
Do you really think so?

By the rules of the game, the Hellcannon cannot fight in close combat, but can charge by moving into contact.

By the rules of the game, the Hellcannon can itself be charged, as the CD crew will not line up in front of it. It still cannot fight in close combat, though.

By the rules of the game, the Hellcannon will automatically be destroyed if enemies are in close comabt with it and no CDs.

It seems that the rules do not go together well, now does it?

And: Is the Hellcannon a Daemon? Quite an interesting question, really...

Festus

philbrad2
13-10-2006, 19:25
FESTUS the fact REVLID has been warned about his posting does not mean you can troll and try and get him to post anything inflamatory. Cease now or I'll suspend both of you!


FESTUS - Your signature exceeds the forum limit of 7 lines including spaces. Please trim it back.


PhilB
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