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Cloud Strife
13-10-2006, 17:14
Trying to figure out what Fantasy army I should build next and its looking like coming down to Brets, Tomb Kings, and maybe the Orcs once I get a chance to have a good look at their army list.

So here's the Bretonnia list which I'd like some advice on, although I will point out that it is supposed to be just a friendly list for playing instore, but I have some ideas already on how to make it worthwhile for tournaments.

2,000 Points Bretonnia Army List

Characters

Prophetess of the Lady, Level 3 Wizard, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Chalice of Malfleur, 2 Dispel Scrolls = 281

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, War Banner, Virtue of Duty = 129

Core

10 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer, Errantry Banner = 241
(Prophetess and Paladin join this unit)

6 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer = 141

6 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer = 141

6 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard Bearer = 168

6 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard Bearer = 168

10 Peasant Bowmen, Braziers, Musician, Standard Bearer = 80

10 Peasant Bowmen, Braziers, Musician, Standard Bearer = 80

Special

3 Pegasus Knights, Musician = 175

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

Rare Units

Field Trebuchet

Army Total = 1997

I'm thinking it looks pretty decent, which the only immeadiate worry being someone landing a Dragon near all my units due to Errant Knights only being Immune to Pyschology on the turn they charge, and Ld 8 may not be the best.

To be honest, Prophetess is on the job of Heavens to get Portent of Far, Second Sign, Celestial Shield, and occasionally Comet as the Bolts, and most of Life and Beasts good spells require LOS...

DarkTerror
13-10-2006, 17:43
Trying to figure out what Fantasy army I should build next and its looking like coming down to Brets, Tomb Kings, and maybe the Orcs once I get a chance to have a good look at their army list.

So here's the Bretonnia list which I'd like some advice on, although I will point out that it is supposed to be just a friendly list for playing instore, but I have some ideas already on how to make it worthwhile for tournaments.

2,000 Points Bretonnia Army List

Characters

Prophetess of the Lady, Level 3 Wizard, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Chalice of Malfleur, 2 Dispel Scrolls = 281

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, War Banner, Virtue of Duty = 129

Core

10 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer, Errantry Banner = 241
(Prophetess and Paladin join this unit)

6 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer = 141

6 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer = 141

6 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard Bearer = 168

6 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard Bearer = 168

10 Peasant Bowmen, Braziers, Musician, Standard Bearer = 80

10 Peasant Bowmen, Braziers, Musician, Standard Bearer = 80

Special

3 Pegasus Knights, Musician = 175

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

Rare Units

Field Trebuchet

Army Total = 1997

I'm thinking it looks pretty decent, which the only immeadiate worry being someone landing a Dragon near all my units due to Errant Knights only being Immune to Pyschology on the turn they charge, and Ld 8 may not be the best.

To be honest, Prophetess is on the job of Heavens to get Portent of Far, Second Sign, Celestial Shield, and occasionally Comet as the Bolts, and most of Life and Beasts good spells require LOS...

One word... BORING!

Not only is it boring, it will get beaten to death by large armies (O&G, Skaven, etc) when they have combat results and you can't flank them. A unit of 6 KotR against a unit of, say... normal orcs, might cause 4 hits, 2 wounds after saves. Assuming you made it there with your rank in tact, AND your opponent didn't wound you back, you'd still be losing combat, and then you're toast. Not to mention you're even weaker with your errant knights and your opponent can put up strong things than that. I can see the army getting creamed myself. If you don't care, that's all well and good.

Yeomen are good for one thing, flanking. Almost anything can take them out. I'd consider having two units max.

Add a character or two! Bretonnians can have an extra hero for a reason, it's very fluffy. I wouldn't consider having less than three ever in a bret list.

Lastly, add some spice. Loads of errant knight units has been done to death, and people generally aren't very interested by it. Look through the units a bit more and pick out something you think just might make you and your opponent interested.

Good luck!

sephiroth87
13-10-2006, 22:50
I like the list. However, I have a few things to advise about:

1. You don't need standards on the yeomen, unless you're going for some sort of "everybody has a standard" theme. If you're running them into combat, they're not going to last long (even with a standard) unless it's combined with knights. And all your knights have standards. So you can save yourself a few points there. I also wouldn't worry about shields. If someone shoots at them, they're dead. Anything further than the regular spears and bows that they come with is wasted points.

2. Your big unit is the only real clear threat on the table. It will be picked out by shooting. The Prophetess might be able to dispel the magic, but I'd shoot your big unit first. You might think about splitting up your two characters and instead of having a unit of 10 and a unit of 6, have 2 units of 8. You'll lose a point of combat res in your big squad that way, but another unit will gain one and you're better able to make the opponent at least think about what to shoot.

3. 10 skirmishing bowmen is worth 20 regular ones, just in what they can do. I'd take a unit of 15 skirmishers and save a few points. And again, the standard is unnecessary tactically speaking. But if its just because you like it, then carry on, please.

4. The number one spell in the Life lore is scary good. However, heavens is still the general damage lore and it's good on a high level mage.

Prince Sairion
13-10-2006, 23:23
Not a fan of lots of cavalry units in Bret lists. Well what else do I take? - I hear you ask. . .

I agree with taking skirmishing bowmen, winner every time.
Take a model with the grail vow and get the reliquae involved. Not cheap, but play with it once, enjoy the ward saves and the 4+ combat save, not to mention their stubborn and hating abilities.

The problem I have with several units of cavalry is that there are never enough 'channels' of the battlefield to utilise them to the full. I tend to take two 9-strong units and then the obligatory pegasus knights.

Maybe I just like peasants too much, but I have'nt lost a Bret game for a while, unlike my performance with other armies ;)

truthsayer
14-10-2006, 16:20
Maybe I just like peasants too much, but I have'nt lost a Bret game for a while, unlike my performance with other armies ;)

Hmmm, What about that game against my Dark Elves a couple of weeks ago!? I seem to recall the lady abandoned that bret army.... :p

TheWarSmith
14-10-2006, 16:25
Some silly complaints here. You're under the belief that he's charge a unit of ranked infantry with one of his knight units? Well, he might, but he'd probably charge with TWO knight units

1)6 knights of the realm(this isn't factored for errant) will win combat by 1 on average when charging a 20 strong ws3, s3, t3, 4+ save infantry.

2)Make it 2 units of 6 knights of the realm, and you win on average by 6.5, which is enough to consistently break.

I'd say that you are taking too many errant knights. 1 unit with errantry banner does it. Knights Errant without the banner are just crappy. 4 points more for better WS, ld, and not having impetuous is worth it.

Agreed on the bowmen. Skirmish them. The Braziers are crap unless you're planning on shooting trolls and tomb kings.

Agreed on the mounted yeomen extras.

Check out the errantry list in Storm of Chaos for a possible list you might like better

DarkTerror
14-10-2006, 19:44
Some silly complaints here. You're under the belief that he's charge a unit of ranked infantry with one of his knight units? Well, he might, but he'd probably charge with TWO knight units

1)6 knights of the realm(this isn't factored for errant) will win combat by 1 on average when charging a 20 strong ws3, s3, t3, 4+ save infantry.


Well, I must say that's pretty pathetic infantry, you're not likely to see too many of those. Even swordsmen have better ws.

The real question is what you're going to do against units that are stubborn? For example, greatswords will wipe you out, or for that matter a treeman or giant. You really only have two units with a chance against a treeman, those being the ones with 3 ranks, which I can't even say will work as they'll be whittled just a little bit as your opponent will be drawn to them.

TheWarSmith
15-10-2006, 09:05
that's infantry like skaven, skeletons, goblins, peasants, etc.

Ws3, S3, T3 is the basic human statline, so it's a good thing to use for a baseline. Obviously dwarves are much tougher to break, being harder to hit, wound, and fail their armour save.

Bretonnians will always have a problem with stubborn/unbreakable troops. So you avoid them. It's not that hard to avoid a M5 model when you're M8

Cloud Strife
16-10-2006, 17:23
The real question is what you're going to do against units that are stubborn? For example, greatswords will wipe you out, or for that matter a treeman or giant. You really only have two units with a chance against a treeman, those being the ones with 3 ranks, which I can't even say will work as they'll be whittled just a little bit as your opponent will be drawn to them.


Bretonnians will always have a problem with stubborn/unbreakable troops. So you avoid them. It's not that hard to avoid a M5 model when you're M8

Well its pretty simple to take down things like Greatswords as they aren't really going to do all that much to my units when they have to strike last, and even then if they do hit and wound I'm getting a 4+ armour and 5+ Ward, so good chance of surviving them. The only problem with them would be the flanking units, but that's why you pick the fights as Brets have the movement to do that.

As for Giants - well they tend to die to archery to be honest, and a lance or two will be enough to take it down. As for Treemen - well I struggle to kill them with most armies anyway, but the Trebuchet is handy for that.

With regards to some of the choices for the list the main reasons for the Peasants to have Standards is partly for the look, and the fact that it means they have a reasonable change against other light cav and missile units of actually winning combat, or holding for long enough, that and I'm contemplating dropping the Standards from the Knights, but apart from them looking good I felt that might be being a bit too cheesy so I'll keep that change for tournaments.

To be honest I couldn't say anything about Errant Knights being overdone as I've only played against 3 Bret armies since the new book came out, and only seen 1 other army, and none of them were using Errants.

The main reason for the Bowmen being ranked is again just for how it looks with them flanking the Trebuchet, and I'll probably keep the shields on the Yeomen as I play Woodies and High Elves a lot, and also they'll be converted from Men-at-arms and Glade Riders so I can use the shields to show of the Heraldry of some of the Knights.

Not going to go for the Storm of Chaos list as I never liked the armies there as they just seemed too powerful as only the Middenland one seemed balanced, that and I consider that period to be over as far as army history is concerned.

druchii
16-10-2006, 18:29
Trying to figure out what Fantasy army I should build next and its looking like coming down to Brets, Tomb Kings, and maybe the Orcs once I get a chance to have a good look at their army list.

So here's the Bretonnia list which I'd like some advice on, although I will point out that it is supposed to be just a friendly list for playing instore, but I have some ideas already on how to make it worthwhile for tournaments.

2,000 Points Bretonnia Army List

Characters

Prophetess of the Lady, Level 3 Wizard, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Chalice of Malfleur, 2 Dispel Scrolls = 281

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, War Banner, Virtue of Duty = 129

Core

10 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer, Errantry Banner = 241
(Prophetess and Paladin join this unit)

6 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer = 141

6 Knights Errant, Musician, Standard Bearer = 141

6 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard Bearer = 168

6 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard Bearer = 168

10 Peasant Bowmen, Braziers, Musician, Standard Bearer = 80

10 Peasant Bowmen, Braziers, Musician, Standard Bearer = 80

Special

3 Pegasus Knights, Musician = 175

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

5 Mounted Yeomen, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer = 101

Rare Units

Field Trebuchet

Army Total = 1997

I'm thinking it looks pretty decent, which the only immeadiate worry being someone landing a Dragon near all my units due to Errant Knights only being Immune to Pyschology on the turn they charge, and Ld 8 may not be the best.

To be honest, Prophetess is on the job of Heavens to get Portent of Far, Second Sign, Celestial Shield, and occasionally Comet as the Bolts, and most of Life and Beasts good spells require LOS...


Warsmith beat me to it. If you like errants that much, grab the Errantry War list, and go to town (I know I did!). I usually only take one errant unit to "upgrade" one unit of KoTR to Questing knights.

(if you have four units of KOTR, turn one into a unit of KE(to save 4 points/model) and then turn another into QK(spending those extra 4 points). Suddenly you've got an army that's a bit more fun to play with, and composisitionally varrying).

You won't need the light cavalry all that much. In my experience, they'll rarely live through turn 2 without getting shot at. Alot of people will look at your plethora of armored knights, and shoot the poor peasants on donkeys first.

Your hero selection baffles me. Namely your lord.
You don't sport alot of units that will be capable of supporting her, or utilizing her to her fullest.

With the speed and quantity of your army, you'll have precious little time to get good use out of her magic. I'd drop her for a bret lord, and grab a damsel in her place.

luck!
d