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HolySanguinius
14-10-2006, 04:49
Hi everyone

My friend has recently started playing O&G, as I have with Dwarfs, and would like some general help on how to deal with them.

Tactics and things to avoid from payers on both sides are appreciated.

Freak Ona Leash
14-10-2006, 10:27
With Dwarfs, in Freaks experience, you need a good mix of shooting and comabt. You have the two best core troops in the game, Warriors/Longbeards and Thunderers, so use a lot of them! Freak generally takes a tooled up Lord with a Great Weapon with Master Rune of Kragg the Grim, a Rune of Fury, Shieldbearers, a Rune of Stone and a Master Rune of Spite for that nice 5 S6 Attacks, two S4 Attacks a 1+ save and 4+ ward. Recently, the only other character he has been running is a Than BSB with the Rune of Fear, put in a 20 strong unit of Longbeards with the Rune of Stoicism (double unit strength). You want to always keep your comabt troops moving, as a Dwarf army that doesnt try to meet its foe in combat is wasting half its potential. My current list is the above two characters, a 20 strong unit of warriors with shield, a 20 strong unit of Longbeards with shield, two units of ten Thunderers, a unit of 20 strong Hammerers (always take these if you have a Dwarf Lord. And always give them shields. For thirteen points you get immune to fear and terror, stubborn on LD 9, with the potential for S6 attacks or a 3+ save and S4 attacks.) a cannon with Rune of Forging, a Grude Thrower with Rune of Accuracy and Enginneer, and a unit of 12 Slayers and an Organ Gun. This gives a good mix of shooting, as long as your war machines dont blow up (Freak is starting to lean away from the Organ gun for this very reason. It has blown up in every battle he has taken it in, starting to think of a Gyrocopter or something. Or more troops.) and with 70 of the toughest combat troops in the game, you have a hard list. Be sure your Dwarfs dont get flanked or anything, this is why I like the Slayers, they can be an Excellent tar-pit is hold the enemy down and even *shock awe* let the Dwarfs get a charge off. Of course, you could be a cop-out and just take the Anvil of Doom shooty army, but that is no fun to play against.

HolySanguinius
14-10-2006, 20:57
Thanks Freak Ona Leash

I tend to lean away from points heavy lords like the one you described, purely due to movement 3. If I ever made a lord like that I would always put in a Master Rune of Challenge, to ensure he got to fight.

The list I am thinking of at the moment is this

LORDS
Runelord 363 points
Anvil of doom
Sheild
Rune of stone
Rune of preservation
1x Rune of spell breaking

HEROS

Anvil of doom

Thane 145pts
BSB
Mro Gromril
2xRo Iron

CORE
20 Warriors 195 pts
Sheild
SB and Mus

20 Warriors 195 pts
Sheild
SB and Mus

10 Rangers 140pts
Great Weapons
Crossbows

20 Longbeards 280pts
Sheilds
SB w/Ro battle and Mus,

10 Quarrelers 120
Sheilds

SPECIAL

Bolt Thrower 85pts
Engineer
Ro Penetrating

Bolt Thrower 90pts
Engineer
Ro Penetrating
Ro Burning

Grudge Thrower 130pts
Ro Accuracy
Ro Penetrating

15 Hammerers 254pts
Musician, (BSB), SB w/Ro Courage, Gate keeper

There is no black powder due to the fact that it is a army from the war of the beard period.

Any inherient weakness against an O&G army?

I have to disagree with you on the Anvil being part of a shooty army of doom, because it is the only thing that gives dwarfs an element of randomness that the enemy cannot account for. With Movement 3 the Dwarfs really need something like this to be successful against more experienced players.

heretics bane
14-10-2006, 22:12
20 man units of warriors/longbeards are the thing to have gainst gobbos along with the organ gun,what can beat a weapon with a minimum of 2 shots and a maximum of twlve is always good aginst night gobbos, for the bigger orcs a cannon is good while a grudge thrower is goof when a ibg blast template lands on a unit of black orcs.

HolySanguinius
15-10-2006, 01:54
I have to question wether Longbeards are really worth it, for the expense, you might as well get another quarrelers unit, provided you drop a few things. They are almost as expensive as special units, and yet not as good.
The only upside I can see is that they are core units.

Prince Sairion
15-10-2006, 11:59
Longbeards are the best choice in the Dwarf List!!!!

A core unit, with the same stats as a special unit (hamm/iron) and for the same amount of points, don't see the downside.
Hammerers are 13points for stubborn, grt wpns and 5+save in combat.

Ironbreakers have the same effect as longbeards but with an extra point of combat save, and for that they become special.

Longbeards have s4 basic, putting them a massive step up from regular Dwarfs when fighting orcs, don't worry about their own casualties, and have a 3+ armour save in combat.

Hammerers hit back hardest, but they die quicker for this luxury.

Freak Ona Leash
15-10-2006, 22:06
Longbeards are nuts mate. For a hybrid Dwarf army (the only kind in Freaks eyes ;) ) they are incredible. 12 points for a WS5, S4 Hand Weapon, Heavy Armor and Shield (3+ save for the win) is incredible. Chaos pays 14 points for Warriors who, while they can take marks, still have one less leadership, and no shield. With a Dwarf Lord you can even take two units of Longbeards, no Warriors required (though bog standard warriors still rock) and give one the Rune of Stoicism (double Unit strength) and one the Rune of Courage. Put a BSB with Rune of Fear in the One with RoS, and get a Lord with Hammerers and there you go. One fear-causing unit of dwarfs who count as 40 US, one unit of immune to Fear and terror Dwarfs, and one unit of immune to fear and terror and stubborn dwarfs. :D

HolySanguinius
16-10-2006, 05:23
Freak Ona Leash - What do you mean a hybrid army? I can definately see the advantage of a US 40 fear causing unit, auto break anyone? (Damn insane courage though)

Does anyone use rangers? I can see the benefit of a 10 strong longbeard ranger unit with throwing axes, deployed to lure out fanatics, marchblock and rear charge the enemy if they ignore you and walk past.

How does the dwarf player counter the devestating fanatics?

Changed my list also, as above comments on effectiveness vs O&G appreciated

LORDS
Rune lord 358 points
Anvil of doom
Shield
Rune of stone
Rune of preservation
1x Rune of spell breaking

HEROS

Anvil of doom

Thane 195 pts
BSB
Ro Fear

CORE
20 Warriors 195 pts
Shield
SB and Musician

20 Warriors 195 pts
Shield
SB and Musician

10 Rangers 130pts

Long beards

Shields

19 Long beards 278pts
Shields
SB w/Ro Stoicism Musician, and Veteran

10 Quarrelers 120
Shields

SPECIAL

Bolt Thrower 85pts
Engineer
Ro Penetrating

Bolt Thrower 90pts
Engineer
Ro Penetrating
Ro Burning

Grudge Thrower 105pts
Ro Accuracy

15 Hammerers 242pts
Musician, SB w/Ro Courage


Total 1998

7 Dispel Dice

109 models

Edric
16-10-2006, 11:30
Lots of infantry, good you should hold them off for a while... But do you have enough siege weapons to keep them in check before they charge? You can destroy war charits with one shot, but can you keep those black-robbed, hulicinating-inducing muchroom-eaters that cause 1D6 (2D6) hit S5 with no armor saves out of your formation?

That would be my only problem...

Have you tried the flame canon?

Edric

HolySanguinius
16-10-2006, 19:51
@ Edric - I am not using the flame canon, because it breaks the war of the beard era theme, otherwise i definately would be using it.

I am planning to use the rangers to lure out fanatics at an early point in the game. Another option would be a gyrocopter. These guys are awesome, but don't fir the armys theme.

I thought about converting a dwarf to ride a dragon as representative of the gyro, but it seems that dwarfs hate dragons.... Any thoughts?

Edric
17-10-2006, 07:32
Oops... Sorry about not getting that part about the War of the Beard... So we have a Dwarf who is actually going to play it tactically (where I come from you don't see Dwarves without 75% of the army that can shoot...)

The rangers should work, but I have got a question: What if your adversary spots your brilliant maneuver and charges your rangers with boar riders or wolf raiders (granted the raiders shpuldn't do much (if any) dammage) destroying or blocking them, preventing you from stopping the fanatics?

For he 'copter... I don't think thy would have a dragon... Besides, a dragon is a lot more powerfull than a copter... But a dragon slayer on a "baby dragon" would be a pretty cool figurine... it could work, especially that a dragon can also belche flames (steam in this case)!

Have fun with it!

Edric

Mazian
17-10-2006, 15:19
I always hear that comment about how if I put runes on my dwarf lord you just wont fight him yet every time I play, includeing rouge trader tournies, my dwarf lord gets in combat. Last time he took down a tooled up ogre tyrant.

the only disagreement I have with freaks comments is the lack of a runesmith with some dispell runes. there are certain spell combinations that the dwarfs are extreemly vulnerable to and a couple of dispell scrolls can often come in quite handy. the runesmith himself is a decent combatant. I usually give him a GW.

Edric
17-10-2006, 16:05
Well... He does have enough dispel strength to hold them off for a while, but it does seem to me that there could be a little more in the way of protection.

O and Gs have some pretty nasty spells (I have tasted some of it myself) that could do a lot of dammage. That said, he would probably have to take a Great Shaman to get through your defences... Then again, he may just blow himself up:D !

Lots of factors, but sometimes you just gotta grit your teth and take a that he can send at you...

Edric

sever14
17-10-2006, 16:34
I thought that gyrocopters were after the war of the beard?

Freak Ona Leash
17-10-2006, 19:22
They are. And they didnt have Rangers either back then. Oh, and how to deal with fanatics...Well, Freak just charges through them, no other way to do it, bar panicing the gobbos and never letting the fanatics out in the first place. Yes, fanatics hurt, but if you are to scared to suffer a few hits by charging through them, then they have done their purpose:Keeping your troops out of combat. Either by killing them or just making you scared to move.. And of course ,there is always the fact that fanatics might scatter back into their own troops. Played against an O&G player who had that happen. Four fanatics tthrough one unit of gobbos in the space of two turns. 20 gobbos died. One dwarf died. Freak laughed.

Jammybee
18-10-2006, 00:11
Its not war of the beard, but for my Norse dwarfs (no gunpowder) I use a Giant raven (very norse) converted from a WE eagle.

snurl
18-10-2006, 06:16
Gyrocopters are great for luring out fanatics. Watch as they tear through their own units.

HolySanguinius
18-10-2006, 06:18
For the gyro, I was indeed thinking a baby dragon made from a cold one and 40k gargoyle.

Jammybee could you tell me how you went about this giant raven?

In other fantasy subtypes i.e Tolkien and Feist ravens have a strong connection to dwarfs.

What should I drop to put in a runesmith? I already have a runelord...

I have changed my army list to accomodate miners as well because they work well with the anvil.

LORDS
Rune lord 358 points
Anvil of doom
Shield
Rune of Stone
Rune of preservation
1x Rune of spell breaking

HEROS

Anvil of doom

Thane 145 pts
BSB
Mro Gromril
2xRo Iron

CORE
23 Warriors 222 pts
Shield
SB and Musician

23 Warriors 222 pts
Shield
SB and Musician

19 Long beards 253pts
Shields
SB, Musician, and Veteran

10 Quarrelers 120
Shields

SPECIAL

Bolt Thrower 85pts
Engineer
Ro Penetrating

Bolt Thrower 90pts
Engineer
Ro Penetrating
Ro Burning

Grudge Thrower 105pts
Ro Accuracy

10 Slayers 110pts

10 Miners 145pts
Prospector
Steam Drill

RARE

Gyrocopter 140

Total 2000
7 Dispel Dice
109 models

Prince Sairion
19-10-2006, 22:03
I really don't see how any self respecting dwarf would take a huge bird (other than their spouse carrying the beer) into battle with them.

As for the war of the beard, how do you think the dwarfs dealt with fanatics? They grumbled a bit, shook their fists, took the hit, and then pummelled the gobbo's who dared to unleash such abominations upon them.

After all this there is always the chance that the dude will rol a 1 and a single dwarf will drop - potentially. Be more scared of the massive units coming at you rather than the piddly fanatics.

Remember they make that unit of NG's you are about to stuff around 200 points minimum, it's almost worth fighting them now!!!

PS Live without the gyro, stick to the theme, take a cannon - joke :)

2_heads_talking
19-10-2006, 22:30
Freak, what is the points value of your list on the first page? Seems quite a lot, as the general is really tooled up!

Sedekiel
19-10-2006, 23:04
If you want the war of the beard theme you will have to say bye bye to the hammerers too.

It is a nice list quite balanced, I would probably take out 4 Longberads and boost up some runes in their standard and maybe a rune of penetrating in the GT. Oh yes the miners wont help against Orcs. Put something else in...

Cheers fdr