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Montford981
14-10-2006, 15:00
Sending out a shout to see if I have fellow CBT players on the board. Its an oldie but goodie. The new miniatures by IWM are scaled in relation to each other and man do nearly all of them look good. (I can't stand the new Marauder, but one out of literally scores ain't bad!)

-981

MAD MAN-A-TRON
14-10-2006, 15:06
I can barely consider myself a player as I have only encountered one other player who wasn't on the internet, and I've played maybe two games. I can't find any one in the area and to be honest, I've lost interest. I have a company sized element for my mercs with some vehicles and a few other things, I also have a few clan mechs, but I haven't really tocuhed them.

If you search this board you might find a post of mine that has a few pictures.

Kahadras
15-10-2006, 11:05
Yup. Although I've met few other people interested in it. I have almost four companies of Inner sphere mechs and a few clusters of Clan mechs. I've played several games over the years but I'm the only person I know who actualy has any models (which can get boring as I know how to handle the mechs that I have)

The only other problem is the time games take. Most people I play with don't know the rules very well so i have to spend a lot of time explaining them so we only play small games (maybe a lance or two on each side)

Kahadras

Montford981
15-10-2006, 15:35
Try out the Quickstart rules. They are a free download from the Classic Battletech website (www.classicbattletech.com). Basically Quickstart removes Heat and Internals from the game. Check them out and also check out the site. CBT is really making a comeback.

-981

The Song of Spears
23-10-2006, 20:09
I am a long time BT player. although, no one here plays anymore. i had all my minis stolen some years back (i had just about 1 of every mech at that point) and have slowly been collecting more due to nostalgia reasons. i still love the game and i think it plays as well as any modern table top wargame (which is kinda sad )

Senbei
25-10-2006, 11:48
I field.... a lance of Locusts! But mainly the PP RL/ER-ML Version... Must try teaming them up with PPC Cicadas some time... Get them to do some crit seeking :D

The Song of Spears
25-10-2006, 15:55
Ever heard of the locust bomb?

take as little armour as possible, max walk/run distance and load up on Machine Gun ammo. then charge a Heavy Mech (love to do this to 100 ton atlas enemies) you will always take enough damage to get tons of critical hits, detonate the ammo and do around 400 points of damage to the Heavy Mech :P and of course obliterate your locust.

Montford981
26-10-2006, 23:43
Ever heard of the locust bomb?

take as little armour as possible, max walk/run distance and load up on Machine Gun ammo. then charge a Heavy Mech (love to do this to 100 ton atlas enemies) you will always take enough damage to get tons of critical hits, detonate the ammo and do around 400 points of damage to the Heavy Mech :P and of course obliterate your locust.

Sounds Kuritan. :)

-981

Acolyte
26-10-2006, 23:56
I'd like to play CBT, but I can't find opponents!

gjnoronh
27-10-2006, 00:23
I loved the concept of the world and gaming system, actual game mechanics and system were about as bad as I've ever seen. Talk about creating needless dice rolls. . . .

Getz
27-10-2006, 09:57
I loved the concept of the world and gaming system, actual game mechanics and system were about as bad as I've ever seen. Talk about creating needless dice rolls. . . .

What on earth are you talking about? BT is a complex game intended to be played between Lance and Platoon level really. All the mechanics are in there for a reason and it's supposed to take a certain amount of time to play...

I have a most of my Mercenary company painted up in lead (although by no means all of them...) but It too struggle to find opponents. Fortunately, I've taught most of my friends to play, but none of them have any rules or models so it can get a bit repetitive playing against my own stuff all the time...

Senbei
27-10-2006, 11:37
Hmn... Locust Bomb.... Nice Idea... must start kit-bashing the MG variant out of a PP one... Jus so it matches :D. Just wish that Iron-Wind wuld sculpt a MW4 Flea... the current B-Tech one is a bit big and painful to look at...

gjnoronh
27-10-2006, 22:24
Getz - I geuss preplanned complexity limiting scale of game has it's uses, but I think it was the _death_ of Battle tech. I loved BT (for the concepts and world), but a simpler more user friendly system would have made it more amenable to the average gamer, and honestly far more enjoyable for me.

Lets walk through firing a gun (long range missile launcher) at another mech (Bear with me as it's been a while since I've played I think I've remember this correct)
I fire an LRM 20 at you
1) roll to hit using piloting modifiers, movement modifiers, and range modifiers
(three modifiers on the basic to hit roll)
2) Determine how many of the missiles actually hit you - roll on a table to determine % of missiles that hit
3) Randomize location of those hits (LRM 20's do it in blocks of five thank heavens. . .)
4) Based on location determine if any of those missiles hit a critical location
5) If critical roll on critical effect table for that specific section
6) If not critical mark off armor reduced for each body section hit.
7) Mark off increased heat on firing mech
8) Mark off ammo usage on firing mech
9) Repeat process with each additional gun - a mech would quite commenly have 3-6 guns!

That's right eight steps to resolve firing _one_ gun - some weapons might be quicker (PPC's) but missile boats were quite common. If you had 4 weapons you can work out how many steps it would take to resolve one mechs weapons 4 mechs in a lance - you can imagine how long it took to resolve one sides turn. Lots of wargaming systems roll a bunch of dice, but there is the potential in those systems to bunch handlfuls of dice at once - not so for BT.

In addition to paper work take a look at how many rolls(4) it took to determine effects, and these generally weren't the simple d6 need a 3 to hit rolls that some systems use, and modifiers, armor, etc would differ significantly from mech to mech.

Complexity can be interesting, but it can also bog the game down. I do not think the multiple rolls required to resolve a missile strike were helpful - randomizing if you hit, then what % missile hit, then which missiles strike where, then what happens for critical hits and THEN documenting several housekeeping items made for a lot of work WITHOUT adding anything to game play. If the goal is to maximize the tactics of selecting the right weapons at the right range at the price of heat, ammo use while interacting on lance level (essentially unit based or smaller) tactics do so. Get the rest of the stuff away. Tell me a "LRM 20" does 10 points of damage on average each time and don't make me randomize each bit of it (or if you must. .. to differentiate it from energy weapons then make it simply a hits two adjacent areas thing - one roll retains the different mecanics)

The rules got in the way of the strategy - which with facing, heat and ammo management, and gradual loss of function for damaged mechs could have been quite interesting (though all those factors made for excessively complex games)

The games beauty - designing your own mechs also took away from it's marketability. Why buy a panther mech when you can just take your old cicada and say this is the Cicada 2b with extra mass, armor, and a panthers equipment load.

I'm a BT fan for many reasons but game mechanics most definitely not (nor for that matter sculpts)

Acolyte
27-10-2006, 23:02
Yeah, while CBT is supposed to be a complex game, complexity really hurts it, and I'd like to see it get toned down a bit myself (And I've been a Battletech geek since I was...I dunno, 10 or so. Hell, I blame Battletech for making me a geek. Thank you very much, The Crecent Hawk's Revenge.).

Sadly, the 'dumbed down' version-that is, Mechwarrior: Age of Destruction, was too dumb.

Getz
27-10-2006, 23:28
The games beauty - designing your own mechs also took away from it's marketability. Why buy a panther mech when you can just take your old cicada and say this is the Cicada 2b with extra mass, armor, and a panthers equipment load.


I haven't played properly for years, but I still design mechs when I'm bored at work... People look at my doodle pad and see it covered in mathematics and critical space diagrams. It can be quite an absorbing way of wasting fifteen minutes while pretending to be working...

gjnoronh
29-10-2006, 05:43
And that's just it the rules for making mechs were far more playable than he rules for actually plyaing with them. I spent far more time making mechs than getting a chance to play with them.

However I actually think that widely variable mech production rules made it very difficult to balance lance vs lance combat. The various house factions didn't necessariy have a specific flavor to their mechs, and really when the mech design rules made it hard to keep things balanced. A lance of machinge gun overloaded locusts as described above would be cheap in terms of credits and tonnage, but would beat the heck out of many "more expensive" heavier nmechs.

Gary

Getz
29-10-2006, 10:39
However I actually think that widely variable mech production rules made it very difficult to balance lance vs lance combat. The various house factions didn't necessariy have a specific flavor to their mechs, and really when the mech design rules made it hard to keep things balanced.

I'm not sure I agree with you on that... Personally I use to play a lot with the Free World League faction and a classic FWLM mech would be big on Lasers and LRMs, therefore, many of my Mech design focused on those weapons to give them a FWL "feel."

Similarly, the Federated Suns liked Autocannons and the Lyran Alliance used one heavier Mech in preference to two lighter ones. Mechs for the Cappellan Confederation should be designed with an eye on budget and the only faction without a discernable "style" really is the Draconis Combine.

As for balance - certainly balancing mechs ton for ton within the same tech level could bring up some discrepancies, but that's what the BV system was for...

As for those Locusts, I've seen people try the "Locust swarm" approach in the past and my experience suggests that most halfway decent Heavy Mechs could take down what you're proposing in very little time at all.

gjnoronh
29-10-2006, 13:55
I have to say unlike some GW products I don't have the hundreds of games of BT under my belt to make comments on balancing the system. However IMO the critical hit system that rewards hitting someone with more shots (Because each shot has the same percent chance of a crit) can be "broken" by a mech that uses cheap (both tonnage, creds and BV) weapons to maximize shots.

You've seen a locust swarm (using maxed machine guns or small lasers?) approach before which is more than I can say. So I'll defer to your experience.

I know what you are saying about the fluff of battle tech and mech builds, but there wasn't an "army book" limiting say a lyran force only to one type of heavy mechs (or heavy mechs in general)

If BT had had that I think it would make the game stronger - if you were playing "capellans" you didn't have to follow the fluff.

In GW WFB terms it would be like saying "well you play Goblins and you should probably have lots of them but if you want to field some daemonic cavalry you can."

Again Getz I'm a huge fan of BT and worked locally and in my gaming group to try and maintain classic BT - but to no avail. Mostly because of the gaming system issues as well as frequent rotten sculpts (light mechs were frequently larger than assault mechs, and there was more than a little Gobots feel in many sculpts.) That's not my comments that's from the folks in my area who once played the system but gave up. . .

Getz
29-10-2006, 15:01
A mech that loads up on lots of light weight weaponsfor maximum number of shots will quickly encounter heat and range problems.

None of the light weight weapons have a long range and those that straddle the middle ground (large Lasers and PPCs, for example) have very high heat outputs. If your opponents are loading up on saturation Fire mechs then try engaging them at long range...

gjnoronh
29-10-2006, 19:55
I'd agree and it's largely theory tech anyways in my case - but at least in my games it hasn't been feasible to really maintain distance, most missile boats and heavy mechs in general aren't that fast moving.

A bunch of light mechs or even a TSM myomer assaut mech like a Berserker can close distance fairly quickly as you can't walk backwards as fast as you can forwards.

But that's based on my BT gaming experience - most of our firefights ended up being in close to middle range and included a fair amount of close combat attacks - particularly with pilots with worse pilotingskills. Fighting with a Clan long range lance might be different we used mostly IS mechs.

Acolyte
30-10-2006, 00:43
I don't think that restricting designs and such and creating hardline factions for CBT is a good idea. For one, the militaries aren't really that different, and the amount of salvage and cross-production in the Great Houses makes everybody pretty much equal. There's almost no technology that's only held by a few of the Houses-the only things that come to mind are brand-new stuff like Rotary Autocannons and TSM, and even it gets replicated in a few years. The only really different chunk is the Clans, and they already have their own stuff.

Senbei
30-10-2006, 12:54
Guide-books could be nice though... Battletech is a pain for players moving from more structured games because of the sheer numbers of units avaliable... Heck, some players even mix Clan and IS Tech :/

gjnoronh
30-10-2006, 15:37
My thought is while there are certainly fluff reasons for and against free access to whatever technology folks want - it prevents development of a 'feel' to the gaming world.

When every house can run any mech - the only difference between playing one house or another is your paint scheme. That's a loss for BT as I think the story lines are great and separating the houses would make the game more interesting - most other wargaming systems have some system to differentiate the forces from historicals on up.

Gary

Wing Commander
30-10-2006, 18:04
CBT is an excellent game, as a long standing player of some 20 yrs or so I can safely say that I've never come across any rules problems due to complexity. Total Warfare has revitalised CBT enormously, my store has sold through 12 rulesets in less than 2 weeks and a veritable horde of mechs. We've even planned a small tournament on 18th november, no biggie only 5,500 B.V. for 4 mechs, it was originally intended to break a few locals into the rules but it has kinda snowballed with players heading to St. Helens from Glasgow, Doncaster and all across Wales!
If you are interested, check out www.idgaming.co.uk !

Senbei
30-10-2006, 19:34
Would that be Static games, or is there another games shop that stocks B-tech in Glasgow? Not that I'm a local, I just don't know of any other Battletech Mini's stocking shops in the UK... Sad isn't it :/

gjnoronh
30-10-2006, 20:58
Well Wing Commander sounds like you've got some fans.

I'll have to take a look at the new rules -but historically it's not that the rules are too complex to understand it's that the rules were too complex to allow for a reasonably placed game.

I found the new rules you referenced:
http://classicbattletech.com/index.php?action=products&mode=full&id=197

I'll ask my local indy to get at least a copy for me.

Gary

Acolyte
31-10-2006, 00:01
When every house can run any mech - the only difference between playing one house or another is your paint scheme. That's a loss for BT as I think the story lines are great and separating the houses would make the game more interesting - most other wargaming systems have some system to differentiate the forces from historicals on up.

But on the same trend, one of the distinct features-at least in the Pre- and Just-Post Clan Era is that the Inner Sphere was so fractured and crippled after the loss of the Star League and multiple Succession Wars was that even the House militaries had to scrabble and scavenge for 'Mechs to field. Also, I there are some rules for seperate factions-I know that at least some of the Merc companies (such as the Northwind Highlanders) have optional rules for thier forces.

Getz
31-10-2006, 09:46
Quite, and its fair to say that the TRO's always indicated which faction operates the Mechs it describes. Building an "accurate" representation of a particular factions forces is left to the discretion of the player.

mattjgilbert
31-10-2006, 11:33
Our club used to play it all the time to the exclusion of most other things. We helped out MechForce UK and also ran tournaments for them. We each had at least a regiment of IS Mechs and a couple of Clusters of Clanners. Man we spent a lot of money.

We don't play anymore and have mostly sold the old books and models. I still read all the novels though and have every single one to date - old and new timelines :)

Kahadras
31-10-2006, 13:30
Building an "accurate" representation of a particular factions forces is left to the discretion of the player.


That's why I like the game. Nothing nicer than going through the background stuff to find out what houses/clans use which mechs. OK you can include Mechs that they wouldn't normaly have access to but the background has always been the driving force for Battletech IMO.

Kahadras

Wolflord Havoc
31-10-2006, 13:52
I loved battletech - and Mattgilbert ran a tournament between 6 players and it worked really well - in fact it was one of the best campaigns tournaments I have ever played in any game system.

It did eventually die before we finished as several of us were miles ahead of the others and some were as behind as it was possible to get but what I really liked was the fact that the pilots suddenly became important and several games ended when a player threw in the towel rather than lose his pilot(s) despite the loss in earnings etc. Also having mechs running around with long term damage etc.

But if I was to be critical it was the introduction of increasingly effective weapons (Read Pulse Lasers) and some times I found that the History lost its way. I mean by 3060 House Liao (who had seen the least combat IMO) had the most effective mechs while House Davion was left with the Enforcer III and Jeagermech III which were both dire.

I would have liked to have seen the game mechanics slightly simplified with weapons like pulse lasers getting more shots rather than a modifier to hit.

Anyway slowly but surely I have been selling off my Rgts of mechs on ebay as I do not suppose that I will ever play again.

Kairo
01-11-2006, 14:42
Battletech was the first miniatures game I ever got into. I was a mercenary player. I still have plenty of miniatures, but I rarely play this game anymore. 40K, Confrontation, and Warmachines take up the bulk of my miniature gaming now.

Wing Commander
01-11-2006, 16:57
WeŽve never found battletech to be a complicated game... weŽve handled games of over a battallion per side in a day comfortably, thatŽs around 70 or so miniatures or more.
We do stock an awful lot of battletech miniatures and have been well and truly astounded by the response to the Rebirth of CBT! We will be running a lot of events, tournaments, campaigns, etc. If you are interested pm me and IŽll go through what we have planned! We are also looking for people whoŽd be interested in DemoŽing battletech!

mattjgilbert
01-11-2006, 22:13
The tournament Wolflord Havoc makes reference to was a Solaris League with each player running one of the stables. I borrowed ideas from blood bowl and the thing worked really well.

On the whole faction/picking Mech thing - we poured through all the source material and came up with complete army lists of available Mechs for all factions. I created a database of all Mechs and Factions using these lists and we used to be able to create random lists for a gaming night (e.g. pick a faction and a points limit and it spat out a list for you). In this way we played with Mechs and Mech combos we would not have done otherwise and it made for some of the best games we ever had.

We also make up a ton of hex-based 3D terrain for larger battles which was great. We loved BattleTech but played the thing to death until it was no longer challenging. A shame really.

gjnoronh
02-11-2006, 03:05
Sounds cool Matt, I think I saw something similar on the drawing board dot com for randomly assigning mechs at a given weight.

Still think (given that we've had multiple folks say they were interested in playing faction specific forces) CBT would do well to have "army lists" for each force - even just by virtue of allowing you to have everything but paying more BV for mechs not part of your standard forces.

Senbei
02-11-2006, 10:04
Hell... Even if it was just a rough guide... I'd buy it )_)

shakespear
05-11-2006, 02:13
I started playing around 1986. Got the miniatures around 92-3

Just got back into it with the release of "total war"

Its AWSOME!

the random mech table is in a TON of books, TW, Historicals war of 3039, and a few merch books

gjnoronh
05-11-2006, 12:54
I know what table you are talking about. IMO less useful than house specific "army books" - because mechanically rolling up what minis you are fielding isn't that useful "ooh I rolled up a jagermech but no one owns one, okay reroll that. . ."

Gary

Montford981
05-11-2006, 13:46
Just got y copy of Total War the other day. I'm liking it!

Here's a few pics from the 3 day game I ran at Origins. It was the Battle of Gattysburg, with battlemechs! (Don't worry I scaled it down to be playable :D )

The Battlefield http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/100_0596.jpg

Gettsburg Town and Cemetery Hill http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/100_0600.jpg

Final Struggle on Little Round Top's Summit http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/100_0659.jpg

Notice the "wreck" model behind the attackers? I made two dozen wrecks to mark destroyed machines.

-981

gjnoronh
06-11-2006, 22:45
Cool man looks like fun.

So you used the range conversion rules instead of hex maps/ terrrain?

What do you think of that?

MAD MAN-A-TRON
06-11-2006, 23:09
That does look really awesome, I wish I knew more than one person who plays, I would love to have big battles with my merc company.

mattjgilbert
07-11-2006, 20:31
A BattleTech story I wrote ages ago for Comnet if anyone is interested and fancies getting in the mood for a Mech scrap :)

http://www.thedragonstears.com/stories/hunter.htm

mstainbrook
10-11-2006, 23:46
I'm also looking to players in Cleveland.

I'm looking to get back into Battletech, haven't played in long time but I used to be a fanatic. I played from 3025 stuff up thru 3050. I used to play with a group out of colorado Spings, CO but that was years ago. I've got into some minatures and setting up senerios with my last group.

I had gotten turned off of the whole Clan thing as it got to the point I couldn't keep up the new mechs and weapons. I preferred the older stuff and throwing in the 2750 Star League stuff here and there.

I've done a couple a large scale (6 month) long campaigns with battlion sized fights. Most of the battles were lance or two in size but we had alot of custom made maps and used abridged rules to do faster battle sequences and repairs; keept the battles from taking all night. I'm looking to do more of the same.

Let me know what you've come up with for all your searching... mpstainbrook@yahoo.com

Montford981
11-11-2006, 02:58
Hiya!

I am currently deployed with my National Guard unit.

I am the Commando for Cleveland and I can get you in touch with my Commando comrade in Akron. He's a really cool guy called Zerorunner (Chuck Rankine). I'll send you his email.

-981

Damien 1427
11-11-2006, 22:49
Having a fascination for giant robots, what books would you suggest I pick up to get into Classic Battletech?

Montford981
12-11-2006, 05:22
Having a fascination for giant robots, what books would you suggest I pick up to get into Classic Battletech?

As far as Rulebooks go you only need one: Classic Battletech- Total Warfare.

Also on the classicbattlech website there is a free download of the Quick Start rules which are a simplified version. These are handy for learning the movement and combat system and they utalize a simplified version of the battlemech control sheets.


-981

Senbei
13-11-2006, 13:45
Oh... and a copy of the 'Heavy Metal Pro' software can be handy too... but you don't really -need- it, it jus' contains most cannon Mech designs and you can download those that it doesn't.

MAD MAN-A-TRON
13-11-2006, 20:23
I guess you'll also be needing a record sheet book, witht he rulebook and some models as well. I find that 3025 is a good era to start, but I like 3050-3060 clan invasion era.

Montford981
14-11-2006, 13:02
I'd like to play CBT, but I can't find opponents!

Try going to their official website, classicbattletech.com, and asking about players in your area. I know that there should be several Ontario gamers.

-981

Montford981
14-11-2006, 13:06
Lets walk through firing a gun (long range missile launcher) at another mech (Bear with me as it's been a while since I've played I think I've remember this correct)

You can also get tennis elbow from playing Warhammer Fantasy: my twenty archers shoot (20 die rolls) and then 11 hit so thats 11 wound rolls ( 11 die rolls) and now you gat saves on 9 of those ( 9 save rolls) so we just rolled 40 dice.;)

Its all the same.:D

-981

Montford981
14-11-2006, 13:16
Guide-books could be nice though... Battletech is a pain for players moving from more structured games because of the sheer numbers of units avaliable... Heck, some players even mix Clan and IS Tech :/


Wow there are a ton of sourcebooks for the game. One for each major faction and several mercenary commands, such as House Steiner (yeah baby!) House Davion, House Liao, House Marik, House Kurita, the Free rasalhauge Republic, Comstar, Word of Blake, the Periphery states, McCarron's Armored Cavalry, Wolf's Dragoons, Gray Death Legion, Northwind Highlanders, Kell Hounds, Snord's Irregulars, etc. Also major events like the Clan Invasion or the Fed Com Civil War have their own books as well.

As far as structure: you set the game parameters any way you like: pre-3050 Inner Sphere tech only, post 3050 tech, Clan tech, free-for-all any tech or combination, etc. The tournaments all have these parameters set in their descriptions. The Martial Olympiad is an annual world wide tournament in which you play a set number of scenarios and accrue points. World wide events (such as Monte Diablo a few years ago, or The Brotherhood of Lies last year) help to set the direction of the fictional universe.

-981

Montford981
14-11-2006, 13:21
But if I was to be critical it was the introduction of increasingly effective weapons (Read Pulse Lasers) and some times I found that the History lost its way. I mean by 3060 House Liao (who had seen the least combat IMO) had the most effective mechs while House Davion was left with the Enforcer III and Jeagermech III which were both dire.
.

You need to check out the Sagitaire and the Templar, new Davion Assault 'mechs.

Wow they are tough hombres.

-981

Montford981
14-11-2006, 13:23
Cool man looks like fun.

So you used the range conversion rules instead of hex maps/ terrrain?

What do you think of that?

Heck I just simply used the printed ranges as the range in inches. I know some players double the ranges for terrain mode play but I find that just using the speed and ranges for hexmaps as printed work just fine.

-981

gjnoronh
14-11-2006, 14:05
Well no, because you can batch those dice rolls. So you can roll all twenty to hit dice at once, pick out the hits and roll the to wounds at once, and your opponent can roll the saves at once.

So really to handle the shooting of 20 models you are making 3 total rolls. The mechanic of rolling 20d6 for twenty archers is about as easy as rolling a 2d6 for a typical BT roll - but the charts for GW and most other wargames now adays are much simpler.

Phil Walling
14-11-2006, 14:40
This coming weekend there is a tournament at ID Gaming in St Helens (UK)... you can find details on the ID Gaming website - www.idgaming.co.uk.

Phil

Acolyte
14-11-2006, 15:55
You need to check out the Sagitaire and the Templar, new Davion Assault 'mechs.

I love the Templar. It's one of my favourites, no contest.
Still, the unseen MAD-5S and -5R Marauders are the best.

Yog_Sothoth
14-11-2006, 17:57
I´m currently trying to get into Battletech too.

Recently rediscovered my luv for Mechs and learned that a shop near me sells the minis and just today I got myself a nice little Puma (Adder) (loved them in Mechwarrior3) and a MadCat (Timberwolf) for starters. Later they´ll be accompanied by a Madcat MK2 and a Madcat III aswell as a Daishi (Direwolf) and a Mad Dog (Vulture).

Oh that will be fun.

Playing Smoke Jaguar (Alpha Galaxy camo (http://www.camospecs.com/Unit.asp?Action=Display&UnitID=711))

Senbei
14-11-2006, 18:08
I'm currently toying with the idea of... Many Savanah Master Hovercraft... Moving at high speeds.... Admitedly even with minimum gunnery your still going to be horribly mauled by a light mech... but... that flank-speed of 20 is so tempting...

The Song of Spears
14-11-2006, 18:28
If anyone has a 3055 bohemoth mech (not the new resculpt) i am interested in buying one. I am trying to get a whole a maurader style squad going

Acolyte
14-11-2006, 18:51
Behemoth are fun. I want my Merc company's command lance to have 2 PP Marauder IIs, a Behemoth and a Highlander or Battlemaster.

MAD MAN-A-TRON
14-11-2006, 19:39
I'm currently toying with the idea of... Many Savanah Master Hovercraft... Moving at high speeds.... Admitedly even with minimum gunnery your still going to be horribly mauled by a light mech... but... that flank-speed of 20 is so tempting...

I have a butt load of savvanah masters, and let me tell you, the swarm tactic only works once in a while, I usually use them to disrupt my enemies center before my main assault hits. A good amount of the time, they just get blasted before they do any good.

Senbei
16-11-2006, 19:22
The swarm works better at lower tech levels against 'average' pilots.. Then again, with some BA transport VTOL's and a big enough playing area you should be able to pick and choose where they're going to deploy and harrass any short-range units fielded... Or so the Idea goes...

mattjgilbert
22-11-2006, 12:54
Playing Smoke Jaguar (Alpha Galaxy camo (http://www.camospecs.com/Unit.asp?Action=Display&UnitID=711))I thought that was now Smoked Jaguar :p

Montford981
22-11-2006, 23:14
I thought that was now Smoked Jaguar :p

Pretty much. ;)

-981

Senbei
24-11-2006, 18:00
I've met quite a few players recently who don't like using rules and mechs from after the Clan invasion.... Interesting Idea for a low-tech campaign.

Montford981
24-11-2006, 19:17
I've met quite a few players recently who don't like using rules and mechs from after the Clan invasion.... Interesting Idea for a low-tech campaign.

That's cool! I really enjoy playing in that era myself. I find it to be the best, both from a challenging aspect and from a 'fluff' aspect. Also even the most 'wimpy' 'mechs have more of an impact in the game.

-981

ncc_drkstar
24-11-2006, 19:39
The difference between say, Warhammer and Classic Battletech, is that Warhammer forces you to take certain units, and the factions are very different (such as Space Marines, Chaos, Skaven etc.). Battletech is more "realistic" in that it takes place in a future without known aliens. Thus the factions are all human. BUT, there are factions specific units, you can find such lists in the back of Combat Operations (the list is pages long, detailing every variant the faction fields) and I'm sure other places.

As a Capellan backer myself, I have no problem fielding very specific units (T'tsang, Yu Huan, etc), and its really the 3025 tech that is more general (and everyone can use). That, according to the fluff, is because every had so kicked the **** out of everyone else (and there had been one universal gov't, so no seperate factories... other then Comstar, but I digress) that there were only scrap 'Mechs surviving.... so no one was producing new designs, just trying to keep their old stuff alive.

As for rule complexity... once you've played a few games it becomes really simple. I actually prefer it over the GW system of rolling 30 dice... as cool as it is to roll 30 dice. When I play, the attack sequence for a single mech takes seconds. Its just declare weapon-roll, declare weapon-roll, etc, keeping track on your hand. There are never that many crit hits anyways.

As for the overloading on light weapons and locust bombs.... Well the light weapons are either short range and can easily be taken out from long range as well as they overheat, or have long range weapons and REALLY overheat and are only good every other turn... which in terms of game dynamics gives you a big disadvantage. As for locust bombs.... its like shooting geese with a shotgun. They fall really easily. Not to mention, they can always be ignored.

Another thing I've loved about Classic Battletech is the involvement of the game designers. Recently, it has really picked up, and has been very impressive. Not to mention, the miniatures are kick ass.

And probably my favourite: They don't ridiculously overcharge! They don't make you pay "game value" for something that is worth $2, and they could charge $15 (or somethign reasonable) and make a good profit.

Some sites to check out:

www.classicbattletech.com (main site)

www.ironwindmetals.com (miniatures)

www.battlecorps.com (its a pay site, but if you're interested in the fiction, its well worth it)

Senbei
05-12-2006, 14:15
Oh, and don't forget:

http://www.solaris7.com/

The Song of Spears
05-12-2006, 20:51
Hey BT Mech warriors. I am going to have to go through a Clan Trial here soon. Any recommendations for strategies and such?

Getz
05-12-2006, 21:37
Oh, and don't forget:

http://www.solaris7.com/

Ah yes! I have Mech Armoury on solaris7... Go check it out and rate my mechs NOW!

My username there is Bloodhawk, although I haven't posted on the forums for years.

gjnoronh
05-12-2006, 23:04
Not to mention, the miniatures are kick ass.

I don't know if you work for the company or haven't played almost any other companies system in the quite some time - but honestly that's the only explanation I can find for that statement.


I'll agree to disagree with your comments on ease of the rules system - your comments do not reflect my experience at all, and I'm not clear how a 2d6 system with multiple tables can be simpler than a "d6 roll above a Blank to hit/wound/save" system.

But the minis for CBT "kick Ass???"

from http://www.solaris7.com/
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3107
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3192
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3153

I simply took the miniature on the left of the column for the front page of solaris.

I don't think those remotely compare to Reaper, Rackham, Privateer or GW. FWIW I think more recent sculpts are generally better, but I think the low quality of the minis (sculpts and production quality) is one of the big issues that contributed to BT going out of business the first time.

Mind you I'm a BT fan, I pushed my gaming group for years to play BT despite most folks objections. I'd like nothing better than to see a renaissance of BT gaming around the world (preferably with a new rules set and a new miniature line. . . )

Gary

Getz
05-12-2006, 23:12
You're not quite getting it. Battletech was never about the minis. It was a wargame, plain and simple, it could be played quite readily with cardboard cut outs (which in fact is exactly what it was supplied with in most of the boxed sets).

gjnoronh
05-12-2006, 23:25
Well, maybe I agree it could be played with cardboard cut outs (as I've played most of the miniature systems I've played over the years with proxies) - but miniature companies survive by selling the little toy men. Don't sell the little toy men and it's hard for these game systems to survive. CBT put out a fair number of books but I think it was to help move the toy soldiers - my contention is the quality of the toy soldiers if anything made it harder to sell this wargame to customers.

I'm directly responding to ncc_drkstar's direct quote about the quality of the miniatures. Is he not getting it either when he says the CBT minis "kick ass??"

Gary

Getz
05-12-2006, 23:43
FASA never sold the Little toy men, they sold the license to Ral Partha. FASA was a publisher of Roleplaying and Wagameing material and were supported entirely by that.

As for the minitures, you forget whn most of them were firstproduced. bu the standards of the time they were really rather nice (contempary to Rogue Trader) but whilst the range was expanded the old scuplts were never updated.

For the record, the minatures you picked on are mostly older sculpts (the Urbanmech) or pretty accurate models of mech designs which are just plain ugly (the Phoenix IIC and No Dachi). It's not as if GW never created an ugly model. Chaos Possessed anyone? Captain Cortez?

gjnoronh
06-12-2006, 00:14
Okay apparently I picked on bad sculpts, and the ones on the left column aren't at all representative of CBT sculpts. I don't think I provided a picture of the Phoenix the third picture is actually a Ryuken-Ni which is AFAIK a new sculpt I don't recall it from 3025-3063

Heres the ones on the right of the column
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=2923
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3264
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3240

The top two are more recent sculpts the last is an old classic.

Just in case I'm still stacking the deck here's the middle column
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3125
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3219
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3190

Two 3025's and a 3055 if I remember correctly (two olds one medium time frame)

I recognize and appreciate you reminding me of the split between FASA and Ral Partha. Reminds me there is a difference between GW and Citadel miniatures. However bottom line FASA's rules and Ral Parthas toy men were interdependent - it's hard to sell one if the other wasn't in good shape. FASA went under for a reason - and BT (rules, minis take your pick) not selling well didn't help.

I agree a lot of the CBT stuff is ancient by the standards of the toy soldiers market. But that doesn't really change my point and in fact you seem to be agreeing ("by the standards of the time they were really rather nice") that the quality isn't very good by 2006 standards (as opposed to 1989.)

I agree that the pics of CBT minis I've posted are about as bad as the chaos possessed from GW, would you buy from a company whose _average_ miniature they sold was about that bad? We have a pretty clear answer what the average consumer would do already over the last 17 years.

Again I'm NOT picking on BT or FASA - critiqueing them isn't the same thing as saying this company or product was no good. I'm saying the BT mini's aren't very good and it's a pity because it's a very well fleshed out world with interesting strategic principles with the potential to be a great gaming system. I'm a fan and remain a fan I wish those guys at FASA had some better sculptors working for them.

Getz
06-12-2006, 00:25
I agree that the Lineholder is crap, but I really don't see what you're complaining about. Most of those minis are perfectly good representations of the artwork from the TROs.

As to why FASA went under - I think it had a lot to do with the Harmony Gold Lawsuit. FASA never had trouble shifting their product, but when they were bleeding money all over the show in an ill advised court case, even doubling their sales wouldn't have been enough to save them.

Senbei
06-12-2006, 22:23
I kinda like that Raven.... and love some of the relitively recent stuff like the RAC rifleman, the Fafnir and the PP Locusts. I think a lot of resculpts are needed but IWM doesn't appear to be a company with the kind of resources needed to manage that.

On the otherhand... I like a lot of Reapers stuff, but why do all their C.A.V's look like they were designed based on the same skeleton ? They're all square, blocky and the majority of them have a gun on each arm and one on each shoulder. The CBT mini's may be old, but they -look- like they have been designed to fill different roles and have been put together by different companies in different parts of the galaxy with a hundred or more years between their manufacture.

Getz
07-12-2006, 00:01
Actually, I think the Raven is one of the nicest of the old Ral Partha sculpts. I have one. That photo doesn't convey quite how small they are...

Senbei
07-12-2006, 01:58
On the other hand... when are they going to re-sculpt the Flea ? *shivers*

Acolyte
07-12-2006, 02:42
Out of curiosity, how do most of you guys feel about some of the Project Phoenix stuff? A lot of the new stuff is a vast improvement over the old-the new Battlemaster, Locust, Phoenix Hawk and the Ost-series 'Mechs are a lot nicer then the old stuff. And especially the RFL-8D Rifleman-gotta love those RACs. Some of the stuff is a bit crummy, though-they raped the Marauder, and the Warhammer looks aneorexic.

ncc_drkstar
07-12-2006, 03:05
Definitely some of the old minis were ugly. Take a look at the old Hauptmann:

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/battletech_minis/L1RGhauptman_front.JPG

And the new one:

http://www.lordsofthebattlefield.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26645&highlight=hauptmann

The issue isn't the mini (although the new one is a lot better), but the picture. Its probably the ugliest mini in the game.

Its partly an issue of taste. I actually like the urbanmech, simply because it is what it is. Its fluff and weapons load out make it a dinky mech used for light city patrolling, like a policemen. I think the mech accurately reflects that, and I've always liked the urbanmech. I like the hard planes and less-anime feel of 'Mechs. Privateer Press have some cool miniatures, but tit for tat I'd rather have Iron Wind Metals minis.

There's no question some of the older minis weren't that great (see above) for either their drawing or models. It was simploy outdated technology and simpler drawings. The new models are generally really great. You can see some of the new one's here:

http://www.lordsofthebattlefield.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=3
http://www.lordsofthebattlefield.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=9
http://www.lordsofthebattlefield.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=37

Which brings up a great site if your looking for something like warseer for battletech:

www.lordsofthebattlefield.com

As for the Clan trials... I'm a bit sketchy on the rule (try LotB), but the idea is you're a neophyte facing other mechwarriors (who are generally aged, but not always if there's a personal grievance). So what you're looking for is terrain that gives you lots of options (forest is most likely) rather then open terrain. You would generally fight 3 mechs in succession... and although I don't remember the exact rules I THINK its individually (although I remember in Mechwarrior 3 Ghost Bear they weren't.... although I kicked ass with a full loadout of flamers hahah). Becasue you'd generally be facing more aged warriors, they would definitely have higher Piloting and Gunnery, but older 'Mechs. Although, your pilot would probably be piloting a light to medium (MAYBE a heavy) because of his neophyte status. Your rank is dependant on how many 'Mechs you destroy. Anything more, try classic battletech.com or LotB.

Montford981
09-12-2006, 03:35
Out of curiosity, how do most of you guys feel about some of the Project Phoenix stuff? A lot of the new stuff is a vast improvement over the old-the new Battlemaster, Locust, Phoenix Hawk and the Ost-series 'Mechs are a lot nicer then the old stuff. And especially the RFL-8D Rifleman-gotta love those RACs. Some of the stuff is a bit crummy, though-they raped the Marauder, and the Warhammer looks aneorexic.

I feel similar.

The new Valkyrie is *******' awesome! I love the look that miniature!

I don't care for the new Marauder either, but then I really really liked the old one.

Mostly they look fine though. The Phoenixhawk and Thunderbolt look really good.

-981

Shockwave
12-12-2006, 19:43
On Clan trials. Bare in mind that some Clans modifiy this.

You have just completed your training thus are considered "Regular" in skill. You go up against 3 "Veteran" pilots.

You pilot a Medium or Heavy Omnimech of your choice (Customs is upto the GM if you have one). Your first opponent is in a Mech that is lighter in weight class (Ie, Light Mech if your in a Medium, or a Medium if your in a Heavy). Destroying this mech gives you the title Mechwarrior, and you pass your training.

Once this Mech is dead the Second Mech activates (Same Weight Class), killing this one gives you the rank of Star Commander.

Third Mech is a weight class Heavier. Destroying this one gives you the rank of Star Captain.

If your wanting more, your going to have to look at the books.

The Song of Spears
12-12-2006, 20:34
On Clan trials. Bare in mind that some Clans modifiy this.

You have just completed your training thus are considered "Regular" in skill. You go up against 3 "Veteran" pilots.

You pilot a Medium or Heavy Omnimech of your choice (Customs is upto the GM if you have one). Your first opponent is in a Mech that is lighter in weight class (Ie, Light Mech if your in a Medium, or a Medium if your in a Heavy). Destroying this mech gives you the title Mechwarrior, and you pass your training.

Once this Mech is dead the Second Mech activates (Same Weight Class), killing this one gives you the rank of Star Commander.

Third Mech is a weight class Heavier. Destroying this one gives you the rank of Star Captain.

If your wanting more, your going to have to look at the books.

Thanks a bunch!

So maybe the best strategy is to go for either a light or medium mech? so that at no time is there very much firepower bearing down on you?

Getz
12-12-2006, 21:57
I would defeinately go for a 55 ton Medium mech. The firepower you can pack into some clan designs makes them more than capable of tackling even an quite powerful heavies...

The Song of Spears
12-12-2006, 22:02
Any recommendations on which one to take?

Getz
12-12-2006, 23:03
Not really - I'm an Inner Sphereite myself - but the the Ryoken is a very solid design in my experience...

Bloodknight
13-12-2006, 00:10
I´d take a Summoner/Thor in the configuration with UAC/20 and 6 ER-Medium lasers (IIRC Thor A or B). It´s manoueverable and packs a lot of punch with reasonable armour.
If you could configure your weapons loadout yourself, I´d use a Ryoken with Gauss Rifle and 5 Medium pulse lasers, that works quite well.

I am a more of a Tanker when it comes to BattleTech (Maximum Tech tank rules), but when I play Mechs, I am purely IS 3025 or 2750 (the later Tech levels, especially 3060 upwards took most of the tactics out of the game and turned it into a shooting gallery in my opionion, far too much firepower and heat sinks) and I prefer unseens.
The new Shadowhawk and Phoenixhawk models for example are awful. But then I play BT for over 15 years and may be an old grumbler...

gjnoronh
13-12-2006, 00:45
I agree earlier tech levels really highlighted the unique mechanics of the game.

Ferro-fibrous, double heat sinks, Ultra/rotary AC's and ER PPC's allowed the creation of some very nasty machines, and you could design effective machines that ignored heat issues for all intents and purposes.

Level 1 tech was far more an issue of trade offs that brought out the unique tactics of battletech.

gary

Shockwave
13-12-2006, 07:17
So maybe the best strategy is to go for either a light or medium mech? so that at no time is there very much firepower bearing down on you?

While i would not have a problem with you using a light in your trial if i was running the game, strictly RAW it has to be a Medium or Heavy.


I´d take a Summoner/Thor in the configuration with UAC/20 and 6 ER-Medium lasers (IIRC Thor A or B). It´s manoueverable and packs a lot of punch with reasonable armour. In my experience the Summoner is under armoured for a Trial of Possition. Unless you get lucky with your First opponent you will likely not have enough armour to get past you second round. If your going Heavy then you need to look at something like a Nova Cat, Night Gyr or a Timber Wolf (The mech everyone takes.) or maybe a Cauldron Born. It's not that the others are not any good (Hellbringer excepted) it's that they don't have the endurance to fight the Trial.

Personally i'd go for a Medium. As mention the Stormcrow is solid. Nothing wrong with any of the Configurations. The Nova Prime, is considered a bit lethal. It's also worth looking at almost all the 3058 Medium Omni Mechs.

Remember, in the Trial your the Attacker, you have to hunt them down, not the other way round.

Getz
13-12-2006, 09:33
My Inclination would be to Run a Shadow Cat myself as I'm just in love with their balance or firepower and maneuverability, but I can see it not being really tough enough...

nanktank
13-12-2006, 22:02
I always used to kick butt in a nova/black hawk tooled up with ER large lasers, and double heatsinks, usually enough to blow a leg off in 2 or three shots.

Shockwave
14-12-2006, 07:02
My Inclination would be to Run a Shadow Cat myself as I'm just in love with their balance or firepower and maneuverability,

I'm a big fan of the Shadowcat myself (Along with the Nova Cat) just a shame i'm Jade Falcon.

but I can see it not being really tough enough...

Depends, If you can keep it moving 7+ Hexs a turn (Or Jumping 5+) along with keeping at medium range of your opponents weapons (Long if pulse) then, your in with a solid chance at Star Commander (Remember your first up against lights) just hope you don't get a Cougar Prime. To get Captain though, your going to have to do something stunning (Or getting a double gyro via a cored centre torso, which i suppose is kinda stunning).

Getz
14-12-2006, 09:56
I would try an use the terrain to increase the odds of a headshot myself. Makes the shooting harder, but if your skills are up to it the payoff is potentially much higher

The Song of Spears
14-12-2006, 16:30
Yeah, i seem to remember something about there being a magic number with jumping where with the right weapons load out it was always harder for your opponent to hit you , then for you to hit them.

something like a 7+ for you and a 9+ for them...

Shockwave
14-12-2006, 19:18
I would try an use the terrain to increase the odds of a headshot myself. Makes the shooting harder, but if your skills are up to it the payoff is potentially much higher

Ah, Master rules Partial Cover at work.

Total war has changed that. +1 to hit, roll location normally ignore (NOT re-roll) leg hits.

Getz
14-12-2006, 19:34
Ah, Master rules Partial Cover at work.

Total war has changed that. +1 to hit, roll location normally ignore (NOT re-roll) leg hits.

Damn, that was one of my favorite tricks - especially when trying to take out Assault Mechs with mediums...

The Song of Spears
14-12-2006, 20:01
We use the old school original rules. So we still use the Partial Cover chart, so that would work assuming he was on the other side of the correct height hill, and thats not likely. but i will keep the strategy in mind.

Getz
14-12-2006, 20:08
We use the old school original rules. So we still use the Partial Cover chart, so that would work assuming he was on the other side of the correct height hill, and thats not likely. but i will keep the strategy in mind.

But you can get on the other side of that hill... :evilgrin:

That's one of the reasond I loved the Shadowcat. The speed to attempt maneuvers like that and the firepower to punish your opponent when you pull it off...

Of course, my one was salvaged and in constant requirement of TLC, 'cos I'm Sphereite mercenary scum. ;)

Bloodknight
14-12-2006, 20:13
Is the new rulebook any good? I still play 2nd edition + Maximum Tech, but thoguht about getting the new box as it has at least miniatures again.

Shockwave
15-12-2006, 17:02
Erm, I've not read all of it. To be honest, i'm only just starting to add vehicles to the game.

Myself i'm using parts and not others.

Example:
Using the new Partial Cover
Not using the new AMS (merged the two in fact)

ncc_drkstar
15-12-2006, 20:10
For the ToP you'll want something with a heavy armour loadout, like everyone's been saying. A Mad Cat is probably THE best 'Mech, although I would content it would have trouble dealing with the Cauldron Born H, which would be my recommendation (but you'd have to be a Clan that fields that variant). I never seen a better 'Mech killer then the H. Very high damage weapons and good armour make it very effective. The one thing you'll want to watch for, fluff wise, is that the 'Mech you'll be piloting in the ToP is usually the 'Mech you'll pilot for a ways afterwards.

gjnoronh
15-12-2006, 22:40
Those Cauldron Born variants (I don't remember what H was can you remind me) are really really nasty. I really think they are head and shoulders over other clan options except from the ever popular mad cat (though I have a soft spot for Cougars.)

ncc_drkstar
16-12-2006, 05:04
Cauldron Born H has the large and medium heavy lasers, targeting computer, and UAC/20. Its great at everything: heat, spead, armour, weapon firing. I've taken down more 'Mechs with that thing then anything else. My Inner Sphere 'Mech killer would have to be the Ti'tsang. Jump in back w/TSM... and core the rear. Yay.

Acolyte
24-12-2006, 17:09
I hate relying on headshots for my strategies. It usually plays out that I either get one when I don't need it (Target's out of ammo, missing an arm, dragging a leg and missing most of it's armour), or when I finally get one, my 'Mech's been beaten silly.

Although my opponents don't seem to have any problem getting them on me. ESPECIALLY when I'm playing MechCommander instead of CBT.
('Can anybody confirm that new contact?' Hunchback IIC *BOOM!* 'Aaaiieeee!*Gurk.*) Seriously, I don't care how good a Clan pilot is, the chances of a Hunchback IIC jumping over a wall, landing in the middle of two lances of heavy 'Mechs and hitting my biggest 'Mech in the face with an CUltra AC20 should be WAAAYYY worse then they are.:eyebrows: